12:51:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/14-dwbp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/14-dwbp-irc ←
12:51:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs 351 ←
12:51:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be DWBP ←
12:51:07 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot ←
12:51:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
12:51:08 <trackbot> Date: 14 August 2015
12:52:11 <deirdrelee> present+ deirdrelee
Deirdre Lee: present+ deirdrelee ←
13:00:18 <hadleybeeman> present+ hadleybeeman
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
Hadley Beeman: present+ hadleybeeman ←
13:00:28 <phila> present+ phila
Phil Archer: present+ phila ←
13:00:58 <deirdrelee> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150814
13:01:03 <deirdrelee> chair: deirdrelee
13:01:03 <deirdrelee> Guest: Newton Calegari
13:01:31 <MTCarrasco> present+
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: present+ ←
13:01:33 <PeterWinstanley> present+ PeterWinstanley
Peter Winstanley: present+ PeterWinstanley ←
13:01:56 <phila> present+ MTCarrasco
Phil Archer: present+ MTCarrasco ←
13:04:08 <yaso> present+ yaso
Yaso Córdova: present+ yaso ←
13:04:41 <annette_g> present+ annette_g
Annette Greiner: present+ annette_g ←
13:04:52 <deirdrelee> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150814
13:05:21 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: to accept minutes of previous meeting http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-08-07
PROPOSED: to accept minutes of previous meeting http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-08-07 ←
13:05:26 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:05:30 <hadleybeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:05:35 <gatemezi> +0 Was not present
Ghislain Atemezing: +0 Was not present ←
13:05:41 <MTCarrasco> +1
13:05:45 <phila> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
13:05:48 <annette_g> +1
Annette Greiner: +1 ←
13:05:57 <phila> RESOLVED: to accept minutes of previous meeting http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-08-07
RESOLVED: to accept minutes of previous meeting http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-08-07 ←
13:06:04 <PeterWinstanley> +1
Peter Winstanley: +1 ←
13:06:14 <phila> scribe: phila
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
13:06:31 <phila> deirdrelee: Today was meant to be about the DQV but the editors aren't around today
Deirdre Lee: Today was meant to be about the DQV but the editors aren't around today ←
13:06:37 <phila> regrets+ Antoine
regrets+ Antoine ←
13:06:43 <phila> regrets+ Bernadette
regrets+ Bernadette ←
13:06:54 <phila> Topic: Mailing list discussions
13:07:16 <deirdrelee> Topic: Enrichment document
13:07:17 <deirdrelee> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/enrichment.html
Deirdre Lee: http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/enrichment.html ←
13:07:33 <jerdeb> present+ jerdeb
Jeremy Debattista: present+ jerdeb ←
13:07:39 <phila> deirdrelee: Can you talk about this, Yaso?
Deirdre Lee: Can you talk about this, Yaso? ←
13:07:58 <phila> yaso: The Enrichment Doc was written by the folks from InWeb and I like it
Yaso Córdova: The Enrichment Doc was written by the folks from InWeb and I like it ←
13:08:13 <Caroline> Caroline+ Present
Caroline Burle: Caroline+ Present ←
13:08:20 <phila> ... I'd like everyone to read it. The editors of the UCR could take a look and see if they can extract challenges, as we did for BPs
... I'd like everyone to read it. The editors of the UCR could take a look and see if they can extract challenges, as we did for BPs ←
13:08:32 <phila> ... and then maybe see what else we should do
... and then maybe see what else we should do ←
13:08:39 <phila> yaso: I think Phil sent a mail about this
Yaso Córdova: I think Phil sent a mail about this ←
13:08:42 <phila> phila: (I did)
Phil Archer: (I did) ←
13:09:02 <laufer> present+ laufer
Carlos Laufer: present+ laufer ←
13:09:08 <yaso> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Aug/0022.html
Yaso Córdova: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Aug/0022.html ←
13:09:32 <phila> yaso: I think we've not had any answers to his mail
Yaso Córdova: I think we've not had any answers to his mail ←
13:09:49 <phila> ... and then we can perhaps include some BPs that aren't yet included to cover enrichment
... and then we can perhaps include some BPs that aren't yet included to cover enrichment ←
13:09:52 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:10:15 <phila> yaso: And we can use the note as a reference for the UCR
Yaso Córdova: And we can use the note as a reference for the UCR ←
13:10:19 <phila> q+
q+ ←
13:10:20 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:10:23 <hadleybeeman> +1 to yaso
Hadley Beeman: +1 to yaso ←
13:10:23 <newton> present+ newton
Newton Calegari: present+ newton ←
13:10:32 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:10:41 <yaso> scribe: yaso
(Scribe set to Yaso Córdova)
13:10:49 <deirdrelee> ack phila
Deirdre Lee: ack phila ←
13:10:59 <yaso> phila: I read the note of data enrichment
Phil Archer: I read the note of data enrichment ←
13:11:18 <yaso> ... a lot of what is in the document can be included in BPs that are already in the document
... a lot of what is in the document can be included in BPs that are already in the document ←
13:11:46 <yaso> ... I worry a little bit that we publish the doc as a deliverable
... I worry a little bit that we publish the doc as a deliverable ←
13:11:51 <ericstephan> present+ ericstephan
Eric Stephan: present+ ericstephan ←
13:11:51 <yaso> q+
q+ ←
13:12:22 <yaso> ... as I understand if you are a data publisher, being aware of what data enrichment can do is a good thing
... as I understand if you are a data publisher, being aware of what data enrichment can do is a good thing ←
13:12:45 <laufer> +1 to phil
Carlos Laufer: +1 to phil ←
13:12:56 <yaso> ... the extraction techniques are important and being aware of that is nice, but the techniques per se are not business of our group
... the extraction techniques are important and being aware of that is nice, but the techniques per se are not business of our group ←
13:13:10 <phila> ack yaso
Phil Archer: ack yaso ←
13:13:13 <yaso> scribe: phila
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
13:13:30 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:13:39 <phila> yaso: Just to say that I wasn't suggesting we publish the Note should be published by the WG. Just that we use the doc as a reference to populate the BP Doc
Yaso Córdova: Just to say that I wasn't suggesting we publish the Note should be published by the WG. Just that we use the doc as a reference to populate the BP Doc ←
13:13:45 <phila> ... I agree with you, Phil
... I agree with you, Phil ←
13:13:45 <PeterWinstanley> q+
Peter Winstanley: q+ ←
13:13:55 <phila> ... I suggest we put the Note in the GH repo
... I suggest we put the Note in the GH repo ←
13:14:05 <phila> ... just register that we used it as a reference
... just register that we used it as a reference ←
13:14:14 <phila> ... but keep it in the archives
... but keep it in the archives ←
13:14:16 <yaso> https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/tree/gh-pages/archives
Yaso Córdova: https://github.com/w3c/dwbp/tree/gh-pages/archives ←
13:14:21 <phila> phila: I'm happy with that yaso
Phil Archer: I'm happy with that yaso ←
13:14:42 <yaso> ok, great!
Yaso Córdova: ok, great! ←
13:14:42 <phila> ack next
ack next ←
13:15:05 <deirdrelee> ack MTCarrasco
Deirdre Lee: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:15:28 <phila> MTCarrasco: So the question on segmentations etc. This is a whole field. How the data have to be produced and segmented, natural languages etc. is a whole field (I'm familiar with it)
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: So the question on segmentations etc. This is a whole field. How the data have to be produced and segmented, natural languages etc. is a whole field (I'm familiar with it) ←
13:15:42 <MTCarrasco> http://dragoman.org/laf
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: http://dragoman.org/laf ←
13:15:44 <phila> MTCarrasco: For non-specialists, it's too light
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: For non-specialists, it's too light ←
13:16:05 <phila> MTCarrasco: That's what I'm working on for the EU.
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: That's what I'm working on for the EU. ←
13:16:33 <phila> ... Legislative text is available in 24 languages. It's quite complex - it can't be described in a single doc, let a lone a single paragrpah
... Legislative text is available in 24 languages. It's quite complex - it can't be described in a single doc, let a lone a single paragrpah ←
13:16:42 <deirdrelee> ack PeterWinstanley
Deirdre Lee: ack PeterWinstanley ←
13:16:42 <phila> ack PeterWinstanley
ack PeterWinstanley ←
13:17:04 <phila> PeterWinstanley: Just to pick up on what Phil was saying about scraping.
Peter Winstanley: Just to pick up on what Phil was saying about scraping. ←
13:17:14 <phila> ... There are times when scraping can be made very challenging
... There are times when scraping can be made very challenging ←
13:17:37 <yaso> +1 to PeterWinstanley
Yaso Córdova: +1 to PeterWinstanley ←
13:17:37 <phila> ... getting the message through to people developing websites to make sure that they make them easily accessible by scraping and crawling would be a good thing to do
... getting the message through to people developing websites to make sure that they make them easily accessible by scraping and crawling would be a good thing to do ←
13:17:38 <phila> q+
q+ ←
13:17:50 <phila> PeterWinstanley: So some pointers to BP and anti-patterns would be helpful I'd say
Peter Winstanley: So some pointers to BP and anti-patterns would be helpful I'd say ←
13:18:23 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:18:30 <phila> deirdrelee: A general comment - how deep are we going to get into this? As Yaso described, do we just take a look at the doc or give specific examples as Tomas said, or what Peter said
Deirdre Lee: A general comment - how deep are we going to get into this? As Yaso described, do we just take a look at the doc or give specific examples as Tomas said, or what Peter said ←
13:18:39 <deirdrelee> ack phila
Deirdre Lee: ack phila ←
13:20:43 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←
13:20:45 <phila> phila: Went on about accessibility and how that can also help scrapers
Phil Archer: Went on about accessibility and how that can also help scrapers ←
13:20:50 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:21:01 <phila> annette_g: I think it's fine to keep the enrichment doc around as a reference
Annette Greiner: I think it's fine to keep the enrichment doc around as a reference ←
13:21:20 <phila> ... I don't feel it's approptiate to make a WG Note for the reasons discussed in the past
... I don't feel it's approptiate to make a WG Note for the reasons discussed in the past ←
13:21:46 <phila> annette_g: On a11y, we already have a bunch of working groups on this (WCAG etc.) We have a lot of guidance. This applies to all of the Web, not just our stuff
Annette Greiner: On a11y, we already have a bunch of working groups on this (WCAG etc.) We have a lot of guidance. This applies to all of the Web, not just our stuff ←
13:21:58 <phila> ... I thinkwe need to keep focussed on publishing data on the Web
... I thinkwe need to keep focussed on publishing data on the Web ←
13:22:06 <phila> ack MTCarrasco
ack MTCarrasco ←
13:22:09 <laufer> +1 to annette
Carlos Laufer: +1 to annette ←
13:22:26 <hadleybeeman> (Guess I should make that not a comment.) Just reminding everyone that nothing can be a note — or be published by the working group — without consensus. So we'd all have to agree.
Hadley Beeman: (Guess I should make that not a comment.) Just reminding everyone that nothing can be a note — or be published by the working group — without consensus. So we'd all have to agree. ←
13:22:41 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:22:44 <phila> MTCarrasco: The data when published, we put it in the public domain. The site should be designed to obviate the need to scrape
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: The data when published, we put it in the public domain. The site should be designed to obviate the need to scrape ←
13:22:56 <phila> ... there's a differnece between publishing the data and scraping the data
... there's a differnece between publishing the data and scraping the data ←
13:23:07 <phila> deirdrelee: Trying to summarise...
Deirdre Lee: Trying to summarise... ←
13:23:27 <phila> ... While people think there are relevant elements in the enrichment doc, it shouldn't be a formal Note
... While people think there are relevant elements in the enrichment doc, it shouldn't be a formal Note ←
13:23:34 <phila> ... so we can have a resolution on this.
... so we can have a resolution on this. ←
13:23:53 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:24:04 <MTCarrasco> scraping should be considered it a bad word: means guessing how to get the data
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: scraping should be considered it a bad word: means guessing how to get the data ←
13:24:08 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←
13:24:39 <phila> PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note
PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note ←
13:24:41 <PeterWinstanley> yes, ok
Peter Winstanley: yes, ok ←
13:24:41 <yaso> unmute me
Yaso Córdova: unmute me ←
13:24:43 <hadleybeeman> I think I agree, MTCarrasco. Well structured/organised/presented data shouldn't need scraping, ideally. Good goal.
Hadley Beeman: I think I agree, MTCarrasco. Well structured/organised/presented data shouldn't need scraping, ideally. Good goal. ←
13:24:48 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
13:24:53 <phila> ack yaso ]
ack yaso ] ←
13:24:57 <phila> ack yaso
ack yaso ←
13:25:19 <phila> yaso: Just say that I think things like scraping etc. are also important. I know a lot of companies working with this
Yaso Córdova: Just say that I think things like scraping etc. are also important. I know a lot of companies working with this ←
13:25:23 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:25:24 <hadleybeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
13:25:32 <phila> ... I think we have to mention scraping *somewhere* in the document
... I think we have to mention scraping *somewhere* in the document ←
13:25:43 <phila> ... We're not talking about specific techniques
... We're not talking about specific techniques ←
13:25:52 <phila> ... It is a way to get data from the Web
... It is a way to get data from the Web ←
13:26:26 <phila> deirdrelee: In terms of the proposal, we'll refer to it so elements can eb brought in, but we're not publishing it and saying this is what there is to say on data Enrichment
Deirdre Lee: In terms of the proposal, we'll refer to it so elements can eb brought in, but we're not publishing it and saying this is what there is to say on data Enrichment ←
13:26:42 <phila> ... So if you think it's necessarto mention scraping, OK, perhaps with a ref to the doc
... So if you think it's necessarto mention scraping, OK, perhaps with a ref to the doc ←
13:26:44 <phila> ack annette_g
ack annette_g ←
13:26:58 <MTCarrasco> last resort: +1
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: last resort: +1 ←
13:27:06 <phila> annette_g: I feel like the scraping method is one of last resort. We should be steering people away from that, not toward it
Annette Greiner: I feel like the scraping method is one of last resort. We should be steering people away from that, not toward it ←
13:27:09 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:27:17 <phila> annette_g: It's useful for turning docs into data
Annette Greiner: It's useful for turning docs into data ←
13:27:20 <phila> ack h
ack h ←
13:27:23 <phila> +1 to annette_g
+1 to annette_g ←
13:27:38 <Makx> scraping - we did that in the nineties. didn't work.
Makx Dekkers: scraping - we did that in the nineties. didn't work. ←
13:27:48 <phila> hadleybeeman: I think scraping is a practical necessity. It's useful, but we should focus on the ideal
Hadley Beeman: I think scraping is a practical necessity. It's useful, but we should focus on the ideal ←
13:27:57 <MTCarrasco> last resort, pratical necessity: +1
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: last resort, pratical necessity: +1 ←
13:28:06 <PeterWinstanley> I agree with Hadley
Peter Winstanley: I agree with Hadley ←
13:28:13 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
13:28:13 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> scraping is a worst practice :-)
Joao Almeida: scraping is a worst practice :-) ←
13:28:35 <phila> q+
q+ ←
13:28:48 <Caroline> q+
Caroline Burle: q+ ←
13:28:49 <annette_g> +1 to Deirdre
Annette Greiner: +1 to Deirdre ←
13:28:55 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:28:57 <phila> ack laufer
ack laufer ←
13:28:59 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←
13:29:25 <phila> laufer: I think we are talking about how to publish data on the Web. We have a lot of ways of gertting data from the Web. Scraping is one way
Carlos Laufer: I think we are talking about how to publish data on the Web. We have a lot of ways of gertting data from the Web. Scraping is one way ←
13:29:34 <MTCarrasco> In a perfect world all data would be perfectly structured - better dirty data than nothing
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: In a perfect world all data would be perfectly structured - better dirty data than nothing ←
13:29:44 <phila> ... CSV, PDF are ways of getting data from the Web. Enrichment is when we get something from the Web and want to enrich it
... CSV, PDF are ways of getting data from the Web. Enrichment is when we get something from the Web and want to enrich it ←
13:29:46 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:29:59 <gatemezi> I think this WG is all about fighting against scaping on the Web :)
Ghislain Atemezing: I think this WG is all about fighting against scaping on the Web :) ←
13:30:11 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:30:17 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:30:18 <deirdrelee> zakim, close q
Deirdre Lee: zakim, close q ←
13:30:19 <phila> laufer: We're talking about how to get the data...
Carlos Laufer: We're talking about how to get the data... ←
13:30:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close q', deirdrelee
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'close q', deirdrelee ←
13:30:29 <phila> zakim, close the queue
zakim, close the queue ←
13:30:29 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed ←
13:30:38 <phila> ack me
ack me ←
13:30:43 <phila> http://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/workshop/krems/report#rewards
http://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/workshop/krems/report#rewards ←
13:31:31 <annette_g> q-
Annette Greiner: q- ←
13:32:15 <phila> ack Caroline
ack Caroline ←
13:32:45 <phila> Caroline: if we accept this proposal, how should we deal with the data enrichment best practice?
Caroline Burle: if we accept this proposal, how should we deal with the data enrichment best practice? ←
13:33:01 <phila> ... If it's just a bibliographical ref, how do we handle it
... If it's just a bibliographical ref, how do we handle it ←
13:33:18 <phila> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#enrichment
http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#enrichment ←
13:33:26 <phila> deirdrelee: You can ref that doc as you ref any other
Deirdre Lee: You can ref that doc as you ref any other ←
13:33:37 <phila> phila: It must be a non-nromative ref by the way ;-)
Phil Archer: It must be a non-nromative ref by the way ;-) ←
13:33:38 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:33:45 <phila> zakim, open q
zakim, open q ←
13:33:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'open q', phila
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'open q', phila ←
13:33:48 <MTCarrasco> At the moment of publishing, people responsible for publishing want well structured data: too late, the production of clean should start at the moment of authoring
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: At the moment of publishing, people responsible for publishing want well structured data: too late, the production of clean should start at the moment of authoring ←
13:33:52 <phila> zakim, open queue
zakim, open queue ←
13:33:52 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is open
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila, the speaker queue is open ←
13:33:55 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:34:01 <deirdrelee> ack MTCarrasco
Deirdre Lee: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:34:07 <phila> MTCarrasco: We alsways hear the demand that the data should be clean - but that's too late.
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: We alsways hear the demand that the data should be clean - but that's too late. ←
13:34:15 <phila> MTCarrasco: Structure must be present from the start
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Structure must be present from the start ←
13:34:30 <phila> ... we talk about preparing, publishing and archiving
... we talk about preparing, publishing and archiving ←
13:34:53 <phila> ... If the process of creating clean data has not been included at the moment of creation, publishing is too late
... If the process of creating clean data has not been included at the moment of creation, publishing is too late ←
13:35:12 <phila> annette_g: I wanted to suggets that in talking about DE, we could say a lot about adding analysis to the data (not structure).
Annette Greiner: I wanted to suggets that in talking about DE, we could say a lot about adding analysis to the data (not structure). ←
13:35:34 <phila> ... Things like, if you have an image, being able to point at specific areas of the image (micrographs etc)
... Things like, if you have an image, being able to point at specific areas of the image (micrographs etc) ←
13:35:49 <phila> ... That's just kind of a subset of what enrichment that can be done
... That's just kind of a subset of what enrichment that can be done ←
13:36:16 <phila> ... You may want to augment relational data, for e.g.. It's about taking data that is alraedy structured and giving more data
... You may want to augment relational data, for e.g.. It's about taking data that is alraedy structured and giving more data ←
13:36:29 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note
PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note ←
13:36:29 <phila> phila: i.e. BP 1 - provide metadata :-)
Phil Archer: i.e. BP 1 - provide metadata :-) ←
13:36:30 <MTCarrasco> data already structured and improve it: +1
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: data already structured and improve it: +1 ←
13:36:38 <phila> deirdrelee: Let's go back gto the proposal
Deirdre Lee: Let's go back gto the proposal ←
13:37:07 <phila> deirdrelee: How we handle it is a second step. First is
Deirdre Lee: How we handle it is a second step. First is ←
13:37:07 <phila> PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note
PROPOSED: The Data Enrichment Note be used a bibliographic reference in the WG archives but not published as a separate WG Note ←
13:37:11 <hadleybeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
13:37:11 <deirdrelee> +1
Deirdre Lee: +1 ←
13:37:13 <annette_g> +1
Annette Greiner: +1 ←
13:37:15 <phila> +1
+1 ←
13:37:16 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
13:37:16 <MTCarrasco> 0
13:37:18 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 (shoudn't be a note)
Joao Almeida: +1 (shoudn't be a note) ←
13:37:18 <PeterWinstanley> 0
13:37:18 <Caroline> 0
Caroline Burle: 0 ←
13:37:23 <Makx> 0
Makx Dekkers: 0 ←
13:37:28 <laufer> 0
Carlos Laufer: 0 ←
13:37:37 <Caroline> q+
Caroline Burle: q+ ←
13:37:41 <phila> deirdrelee: So from the 0s - do you think it should be a WG Note?
Deirdre Lee: So from the 0s - do you think it should be a WG Note? ←
13:37:43 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←
13:37:47 <phila> ack Caroline
ack Caroline ←
13:37:48 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:38:05 <gatemezi> +0
Ghislain Atemezing: +0 ←
13:38:13 <hadleybeeman> q+ to talk about agendas
Hadley Beeman: q+ to talk about agendas ←
13:38:17 <annette_g> good point!
Annette Greiner: good point! ←
13:38:22 <phila> Caroline: We are discussing the doc in the absence of the authors. They're part of the WG and maybe we should give them the chance to speak on this.
Caroline Burle: We are discussing the doc in the absence of the authors. They're part of the WG and maybe we should give them the chance to speak on this. ←
13:38:23 <laufer> +1 to caroline
Carlos Laufer: +1 to caroline ←
13:38:36 <phila> ... So I propose that we discuss it next meeting (and I can ask them to be here)
... So I propose that we discuss it next meeting (and I can ask them to be here) ←
13:38:44 <phila> ... We should hear what they have to say
... We should hear what they have to say ←
13:38:57 <phila> deirdrelee: So that's why you're voting zero?
Deirdre Lee: So that's why you're voting zero? ←
13:39:00 <phila> Caroline: yes
Caroline Burle: yes ←
13:39:01 <laufer> I vote for this same reason
Carlos Laufer: I vote for this same reason ←
13:39:02 <gatemezi> +1 to Caroline!
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 to Caroline! ←
13:39:06 <hadleybeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:39:20 <PeterWinstanley> I am not sure .... it's too early to tell
Peter Winstanley: I am not sure .... it's too early to tell ←
13:39:20 <Makx> my opinion: I have no opinion
Makx Dekkers: my opinion: I have no opinion ←
13:39:36 <phila> deirdrelee: Ok, we'll leave it at that.
Deirdre Lee: Ok, we'll leave it at that. ←
13:39:41 <MTCarrasco> I do not really mind one way or another
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: I do not really mind one way or another ←
13:39:42 <Makx> haven't read it in enough detail
Makx Dekkers: haven't read it in enough detail ←
13:40:00 <phila> action: burle to invite InWeb team to next week's meeting to discuss why the doc should/shouldn't be a WG Note
ACTION: burle to invite InWeb team to next week's meeting to discuss why the doc should/shouldn't be a WG Note ←
13:40:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-192 - Invite inweb team to next week's meeting to discuss why the doc should/shouldn't be a wg note [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-192 - Invite inweb team to next week's meeting to discuss why the doc should/shouldn't be a wg note [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21]. ←
13:40:20 <phila> deirdrelee: Please point them to the minutes from this meeting
Deirdre Lee: Please point them to the minutes from this meeting ←
13:40:42 <phila> hadleybeeman: I'd like to point out that this has been on the agenda 3 times. The reason we publish the agenda in advance is so people can see if the topics are relevant
Hadley Beeman: I'd like to point out that this has been on the agenda 3 times. The reason we publish the agenda in advance is so people can see if the topics are relevant ←
13:40:49 <yaso> +1 to hadleybeeman
Yaso Córdova: +1 to hadleybeeman ←
13:40:51 <phila> ... therefore I suggets the next time will be the last time
... therefore I suggets the next time will be the last time ←
13:40:52 <laufer> one last chance...
Carlos Laufer: one last chance... ←
13:41:03 <Caroline> +1 to hadleybeeman
Caroline Burle: +1 to hadleybeeman ←
13:41:08 <ericstephan> +1 hadleybeeman
Eric Stephan: +1 hadleybeeman ←
13:41:09 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:41:10 <annette_g> +1 to Hadley
Annette Greiner: +1 to Hadley ←
13:41:11 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
13:41:11 <phila> hadleybeeman: I don't mean to be hard but the process is there so people can turn up if they want to
Hadley Beeman: I don't mean to be hard but the process is there so people can turn up if they want to ←
13:41:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
13:41:21 <MTCarrasco> +1 hadleybeeman
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: +1 hadleybeeman ←
13:41:30 <deirdrelee> ack hadleybeeman
Deirdre Lee: ack hadleybeeman ←
13:41:30 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to talk about agendas
Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, you wanted to talk about agendas ←
13:41:31 <phila> deirdrelee: So maybe, Caroline, ask them before the Wednesday chairs' meeting
Deirdre Lee: So maybe, Caroline, ask them before the Wednesday chairs' meeting ←
13:41:43 <phila> Caroline: I'll contact them v soon
Caroline Burle: I'll contact them v soon ←
13:41:44 <gatemezi> +1 to hadleybeeman
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 to hadleybeeman ←
13:42:03 <phila> topic: Sao Paulo face to face
13:42:06 <deirdrelee> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Sao_Paulo
Deirdre Lee: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Sao_Paulo ←
13:42:12 <gatemezi> Maybe with a note somewhere or link mentioning that information for future discussion
Ghislain Atemezing: Maybe with a note somewhere or link mentioning that information for future discussion ←
13:42:31 <phila> deirdrelee: For each of hte docs, we already have milestones etc.
Deirdre Lee: For each of hte docs, we already have milestones etc. ←
13:42:55 <phila> ... so for the f2f, we should have milestones that will have been raeched before we meet and what we want to resolve during the meeting
... so for the f2f, we should have milestones that will have been raeched before we meet and what we want to resolve during the meeting ←
13:43:07 <phila> deirdrelee: The WG is now in the final stages of its life...
Deirdre Lee: The WG is now in the final stages of its life... ←
13:43:23 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:43:30 <phila> deirdrelee: From a chairs' perspective - what support do you want before the meeting, what do you want to achieve during the meeting?
Deirdre Lee: From a chairs' perspective - what support do you want before the meeting, what do you want to achieve during the meeting? ←
13:43:42 <phila> [crickets]
[crickets] ←
13:43:54 <Caroline> +q
Caroline Burle: +q ←
13:44:10 <yaso> +1 to deirdrelee
Yaso Córdova: +1 to deirdrelee ←
13:44:10 <phila> deirdrelee: So at this stage, the chairs need to go back to the timelines and see if we're on track
Deirdre Lee: So at this stage, the chairs need to go back to the timelines and see if we're on track ←
13:44:12 <ericstephan> q+
Eric Stephan: q+ ←
13:44:20 <phila> ... and then draw up a draft agend toi discuss next week
... and then draw up a draft agend toi discuss next week ←
13:44:23 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
Deirdre Lee: ack Caroline ←
13:44:31 <phila> Caroline: We can send an e-mail with a proposal
Caroline Burle: We can send an e-mail with a proposal ←
13:44:40 <phila> ... I think it's better to do that rather then try and do it now
... I think it's better to do that rather then try and do it now ←
13:44:51 <phila> deirdrelee: Yep, thank you
Deirdre Lee: Yep, thank you ←
13:45:28 <phila> ... We need to discuss real detail, fine tuning. More general items should be resolved before then.
... We need to discuss real detail, fine tuning. More general items should be resolved before then. ←
13:45:38 <phila> ... So all editors should look through the docs and close off general issues
... So all editors should look through the docs and close off general issues ←
13:45:56 <phila> action: burle to send draft agenda ideas to the chairs
ACTION: burle to send draft agenda ideas to the chairs ←
13:45:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-193 - Send draft agenda ideas to the chairs [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-193 - Send draft agenda ideas to the chairs [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21]. ←
13:46:19 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:46:20 <phila> action: burle to work through BP doc and see what issues can be resolved before the F2F
ACTION: burle to work through BP doc and see what issues can be resolved before the F2F ←
13:46:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Work through bp doc and see what issues can be resolved before the f2f [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-194 - Work through bp doc and see what issues can be resolved before the f2f [on Caroline Burle - due 2015-08-21]. ←
13:46:23 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan
Deirdre Lee: ack ericstephan ←
13:46:52 <phila> ericstephan: there are efforts that are being done on these vocab docs. Do the DUV and DQV need to be integrated/ Connectivity to DCAT?
Eric Stephan: there are efforts that are being done on these vocab docs. Do the DUV and DQV need to be integrated/ Connectivity to DCAT? ←
13:47:08 <phila> ... There was a comment on the BP doc - why were these not mentioned in the BP doc
... There was a comment on the BP doc - why were these not mentioned in the BP doc ←
13:47:17 <phila> ... So can we have a telco on those issues?
... So can we have a telco on those issues? ←
13:47:25 <phila> deirdrelee: Thanks Eric
Deirdre Lee: Thanks Eric ←
13:47:51 <phila> deirdrelee: Yes, definitely, everything should be on the table now. It's now or ... goodness knows when. So, yes. They need to be resolved.
Deirdre Lee: Yes, definitely, everything should be on the table now. It's now or ... goodness knows when. So, yes. They need to be resolved. ←
13:48:13 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:48:18 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
Deirdre Lee: ack deirdrelee ←
13:48:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I can't hear anything...
Joao Almeida: I can't hear anything... ←
13:48:30 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> is it just on my end?
Joao Almeida: is it just on my end? ←
13:48:51 <phila> deirdrelee: A reminder... we should be closing off - if we're going to next versions of the doc then we need to deal with all comments received on the current versions.
Deirdre Lee: A reminder... we should be closing off - if we're going to next versions of the doc then we need to deal with all comments received on the current versions. ←
13:48:55 <ericstephan> great point deirdrelee !
Eric Stephan: great point deirdrelee ! ←
13:49:03 <phila> deirdrelee: So a goal for the f2f is that alle xternal feedback has been addressed
Deirdre Lee: So a goal for the f2f is that all external feedback has been addressed ←
13:49:30 <phila> s/alle xternal/all external/
13:49:40 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thxx phila, I'll redial
Joao Almeida: thxx phila, I'll redial ←
13:50:25 <MTCarrasco> URI vs URL
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: URI vs URL ←
13:50:40 <phila> Topic: URI vs URL
13:50:45 <phila> ack MTCarrasco
ack MTCarrasco ←
13:51:09 <phila> MTCarrasco: For the simple reason that this is what is recommended, we should just use URI.
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: For the simple reason that this is what is recommended, we should just use URI. ←
13:51:30 <phila> ... But if we just talk about HTTP URIs those are URLs
... But if we just talk about HTTP URIs those are URLs ←
13:51:39 <phila> q+ to disagree with MTCarrasco
q+ to disagree with MTCarrasco ←
13:52:00 <phila> deirdrelee: this topic is - should we use URI or URL in the BP doc
Deirdre Lee: this topic is - should we use URI or URL in the BP doc ←
13:52:07 <deirdrelee> ack phila
Deirdre Lee: ack phila ←
13:52:07 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to disagree with MTCarrasco
Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to disagree with MTCarrasco ←
13:52:47 <phila> http://philarcher.org/foaf/rdf#me
http://philarcher.org/foaf/rdf#me ←
13:53:18 <annette_g> It's a URN
Annette Greiner: It's a URN ←
13:53:33 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
13:54:05 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> URL would have to allow you to RETRIEVE a resource
Joao Almeida: URL would have to allow you to RETRIEVE a resource ←
13:54:40 <phila> Discussion about whether an ID for a real world thing can be a URL
Discussion about whether an ID for a real world thing can be a URL ←
13:54:48 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
Deirdre Lee: ack laufer ←
13:54:57 <phila> laufer: I think we're talking about @@@ URL is a subset of URI
Carlos Laufer: I think we're talking about @@@ URL is a subset of URI ←
13:55:03 <phila> ... URI is an identification
... URI is an identification ←
13:55:25 <ericstephan> +1 URL if you are only talking about physical address, URI if you are just talking about a resource identifier (in some cases it might be one in the same)
Eric Stephan: +1 URL if you are only talking about physical address, URI if you are just talking about a resource identifier (in some cases it might be one in the same) ←
13:55:33 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:55:42 <phila> ... when we talk about a locator, we mean URL, but sometimes we need to talk about URIs. Why can't we use them both as appropriate?
... when we talk about a locator, we mean URL, but sometimes we need to talk about URIs. Why can't we use them both as appropriate? ←
13:55:46 <MTCarrasco> " A Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) is a compact sequence of characters that identifies an abstract or physical resource." https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: " A Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) is a compact sequence of characters that identifies an abstract or physical resource." https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 ←
13:55:50 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> URI is the more general term, let's use the more general term!
Joao Almeida: URI is the more general term, let's use the more general term! ←
13:56:03 <phila> ... I think we have to use the correct term for the specific sentence, not just stick to one throughout
... I think we have to use the correct term for the specific sentence, not just stick to one throughout ←
13:56:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> only when justified, we should use URL
Joao Almeida: only when justified, we should use URL ←
13:56:14 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
13:56:41 <phila> deirdrelee: We could say that both are fine and it's up to the editors to use the correct one
Deirdre Lee: We could say that both are fine and it's up to the editors to use the correct one ←
13:56:44 <hadleybeeman> I think context matters
Hadley Beeman: I think context matters ←
13:56:53 <ericstephan> just use both and be consistent and intentional ?
Eric Stephan: just use both and be consistent and intentional ? ←
13:56:58 <hadleybeeman> both may be fine — or one or the other, depending on what you're discussing
Hadley Beeman: both may be fine — or one or the other, depending on what you're discussing ←
13:57:00 <annette_g> q+ to point out that this is not the original issue
Annette Greiner: q+ to point out that this is not the original issue ←
13:57:12 <hadleybeeman> so... i'd advocate leaving it to the editors/review process
Hadley Beeman: so... i'd advocate leaving it to the editors/review process ←
13:57:15 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:57:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> "Future specifications and related documentation should
Joao Almeida: "Future specifications and related documentation should ←
13:57:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> use the general term "URI" rather than the more restrictive terms
Joao Almeida: use the general term "URI" rather than the more restrictive terms ←
13:57:18 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> "URL" and "URN"" from RFC 3986
Joao Almeida: "URL" and "URN"" from RFC 3986 ←
13:57:20 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> q+
Joao Almeida: q+ ←
13:57:28 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
Joao Almeida: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 ←
13:57:32 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> see 1.1.3
Joao Almeida: see 1.1.3 ←
13:57:39 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> recommends that we URI is used
Joao Almeida: recommends that we URI is used ←
13:57:45 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> rather than the more restrictive terms
Joao Almeida: rather than the more restrictive terms ←
13:57:55 <annette_g> * nods
Annette Greiner: * nods ←
13:57:59 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
Deirdre Lee: ack annette_g ←
13:57:59 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to point out that this is not the original issue
Zakim IRC Bot: annette_g, you wanted to point out that this is not the original issue ←
13:58:02 <deirdrelee> ack MTCarrasco
Deirdre Lee: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:58:23 <phila> MTCarrasco: I just want to use the term as defined by IETF
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: I just want to use the term as defined by IETF ←
13:58:25 <deirdrelee> zakim, close the queue
Deirdre Lee: zakim, close the queue ←
13:58:25 <Zakim> ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, deirdrelee, the speaker queue is closed ←
13:58:43 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> exactly my point. Only on very specific cases, we are talking about URLs
Joao Almeida: exactly my point. Only on very specific cases, we are talking about URLs ←
13:58:56 <phila> MTCarrasco: This RFC recommends that we just use the term URI
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: This RFC recommends that we just use the term URI ←
13:59:08 <phila> ... Then Phil says we're only concerned with HTTP URIs so I say, OK, use URL
... Then Phil says we're only concerned with HTTP URIs so I say, OK, use URL ←
13:59:19 <MTCarrasco> " A URI can be further classified as a locator, a name, or both. The term "Uniform Resource Locator" (URL) refers to the subset of URIs that, in addition to identifying a resource, provide a means of locating the resource by describing its primary access mechanism (e.g., its network "location"). "
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: " A URI can be further classified as a locator, a name, or both. The term "Uniform Resource Locator" (URL) refers to the subset of URIs that, in addition to identifying a resource, provide a means of locating the resource by describing its primary access mechanism (e.g., its network "location"). " ←
13:59:29 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I'm on the queue!
Joao Almeida: I'm on the queue! ←
13:59:30 <phila> deirdrelee: That sounds like a cue for using either, i.e. use the correct one fo the context
Deirdre Lee: That sounds like a cue for using either, i.e. use the correct one fo the context ←
13:59:33 <phila> q?
q? ←
13:59:36 <phila> ack j
ack j ←
13:59:41 <MTCarrasco> " Future specifications and related documentation should use the general term "URI" rather than the more restrictive terms "URL" and "URN""
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: " Future specifications and related documentation should use the general term "URI" rather than the more restrictive terms "URL" and "URN"" ←
14:00:03 <phila> JoaoPauloAlmeida: The same RFC says that using HTTP does not mean that it's a URL
Joao Almeida: The same RFC says that using HTTP does not mean that it's a URL ←
14:00:21 <MTCarrasco> using http means it is a URL
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: using http means it is a URL ←
14:00:26 <phila> ... So I would propose to use URI and only in very specific cases, say URL when you're retrieving a resource
... So I would propose to use URI and only in very specific cases, say URL when you're retrieving a resource ←
14:00:33 <annette_g> ++++++++
Annette Greiner: ++++++++ ←
14:00:42 <phila> JoaoPauloAlmeida: So I'd say use URI and only use URL when it is specifically needed
Joao Almeida: So I'd say use URI and only use URL when it is specifically needed ←
14:00:43 <annette_g> * oops
Annette Greiner: * oops ←
14:01:05 <gatemezi> +1 to phila suggestion
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 to phila suggestion ←
14:01:08 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: In general URI should be used in the BP doc, but depending on the context, URL may also be used
PROPOSED: In general URI should be used in the BP doc, but depending on the context, URL may also be used ←
14:01:16 <annette_g> +1
Annette Greiner: +1 ←
14:01:19 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
14:01:19 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
14:01:19 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
14:01:20 <MTCarrasco> -1
14:01:26 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
14:01:27 <Makx> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
14:01:27 <deirdrelee> +1
Deirdre Lee: +1 ←
14:01:28 <phila> +1
+1 ←
14:01:31 <ericstephan> + I is for identifier L is for location
Eric Stephan: + I is for identifier L is for location ←
14:01:33 <hadleybeeman> 0. I'm not convinced about the "in general" part, but I think this will end up with an outcome that works.
Hadley Beeman: +0. I'm not convinced about the "in general" part, but I think this will end up with an outcome that works. ←
14:01:43 <jerdeb> +1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 ←
14:01:43 <hadleybeeman> s/0/+0
14:01:52 <Caroline> +0
Caroline Burle: +0 ←
14:02:14 <ericstephan> I'm going to my yurt and consider this discussion further.
Eric Stephan: I'm going to my yurt and consider this discussion further. ←
14:02:18 <phila> JoaoPauloAlmeida: Maybe Tomas can argue his case again in the ML?
Joao Almeida: Maybe Tomas can argue his case again in the ML? ←
14:02:25 <MTCarrasco> Agree with the proposal 80%
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Agree with the proposal 80% ←
14:02:32 <phila> deirdrelee: We're close to agreement - it depends on the context.
Deirdre Lee: We're close to agreement - it depends on the context. ←
14:02:43 <deirdrelee> q?
Deirdre Lee: q? ←
14:02:49 <phila> ... some specific examples of where URI and URL are each correct.
... some specific examples of where URI and URL are each correct. ←
14:02:54 <phila> deirdrelee: Thanks everyone
Deirdre Lee: Thanks everyone ←
14:03:02 <phila> ... maybe next week we'll go back to DQV
... maybe next week we'll go back to DQV ←
14:03:03 <gatemezi> thanks all!
Ghislain Atemezing: thanks all! ←
14:03:11 <Makx> bye
Makx Dekkers: bye ←
14:03:12 <ericstephan> bye
Eric Stephan: bye ←
14:03:12 <yaso> tks for chairing, deirdrelee
Yaso Córdova: tks for chairing, deirdrelee ←
14:03:12 <laufer> bye all... great wknd 4all...
Carlos Laufer: bye all... great wknd 4all... ←
14:03:15 <yaso> bye all
Yaso Córdova: bye all ←
14:03:15 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks
Joao Almeida: thanks ←
14:03:17 <jerdeb> bye all!
Jeremy Debattista: bye all! ←
14:03:18 <MTCarrasco> bye
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: bye ←
14:03:21 <annette_g> bye, all!
Annette Greiner: bye, all! ←
14:03:22 <Caroline> bye!
Caroline Burle: bye! ←
14:11:14 <phila> query? ralph
(No events recorded for 7 minutes)
query? ralph ←
Formatted by CommonScribe