edit

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 14 September 2015

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/mid/43a7dc9cea074b3e98b0381db0bcf776@CAR-WNMBP-006.wiley.com
Seen
Alan Stearns, Bert Bos, Bill Kasdorf, Brady Duga, Charles LaPierre, Dave Cramer, Ivan Herman, Karen Myers, Michael Miller, Paul Belfanti, Peter Krautzberger, Thierry Michel, Timothy Cole, Unknown NickRuffilo, Unknown Ralph
Chair
Ivan Herman
Scribe
Karen Myers, Dave Cramer
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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14:04:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-irc

14:04:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

14:04:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub

14:04:24 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

14:04:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:04:25 <trackbot> Date: 14 September 2015
14:04:33 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

14:04:33 <Zakim> no conference has been identified yet, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: no conference has been identified yet, ivan

14:05:19 <ivan> zakim, this will be https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

Ivan Herman: zakim, this will be https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

14:05:19 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ivan

14:05:34 <ivan> zakim, this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

Ivan Herman: zakim, this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

14:05:34 <Zakim> got it, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: got it, ivan

14:05:53 <ivan> Chair: Ivan
14:06:31 <ivan> Regrets+ Tzviya, Markus, Vlad, Deborah, Heather, Julie, Ben, Laura, Jeff, Luc

Ivan Herman: Regrets+ Tzviya, Markus, Vlad, Deborah, Heather, Julie, Ben, Laura, Jeff, Luc

14:06:50 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/43a7dc9cea074b3e98b0381db0bcf776@CAR-WNMBP-006.wiley.com
14:07:02 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m09c698f2da7d2f28d301b85cf2d76b08 with password dpub, dial in 644 278 410

14:58:43 <ivan> Present+ Mike_Miller

(No events recorded for 51 minutes)

Ivan Herman: Present+ Mike_Miller

14:58:46 <Ralph> present+ Ralph_Swick

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: present+ Ralph_Swick

14:59:20 <pkra> Present+ Peter Krautzberger

Peter Krautzberger: Present+ Peter Krautzberger

14:59:50 <ivan> Regrets+ Chris

Ivan Herman: Regrets+ Chris

15:00:34 <astearns> present+ Alan Stearns

Alan Stearns: present+ Alan Stearns

15:01:04 <TimCole> present+ Tim_Cole

Timothy Cole: present+ Tim_Cole

15:01:30 <clapierre> present+ Charles_LaPierre

Charles LaPierre: present+ Charles_LaPierre

15:01:41 <brady_duga> present+ duga

Brady Duga: present+ duga

15:02:06 <Karen> present+ Karen

Karen Myers: present+ Karen

15:02:55 <Karen> Scribe: Karen

(Scribe set to Karen Myers)

15:03:12 <Karen> Ivan; We have a lot of regrets today, likely related to today being the Jewish New Year

Ivan; We have a lot of regrets today, likely related to today being the Jewish New Year

15:03:21 <Karen> …Let's have first agenda item

...Let's have first agenda item

15:03:23 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/31-dpub-minutes.html

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/31-dpub-minutes.html

15:03:26 <NickRuffilo> I'm calling in shortly

Scribe problem: the name 'NickRuffilo' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'NickRuffilo' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown NickRuffilo: I'm calling in shortly

15:03:29 <Karen> …minutes from last time

...minutes from last time

15:03:30 <NickRuffilo> then i can scribe if necessary

Scribe problem: the name 'NickRuffilo' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'NickRuffilo' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown NickRuffilo: then i can scribe if necessary

15:03:39 <Karen> …any problems accepting?

...any problems accepting?

15:03:45 <Karen> …Let's record that minutes are accepted

...Let's record that minutes are accepted

15:03:56 <ivan> Topic: MathML

1. MathML

15:03:56 <Karen> …Let's go next to topic of the day

...Let's go next to topic of the day

15:03:59 <Karen> …MathML

...MathML

15:04:08 <Karen> …the reason why we thought it would be worthwhile to have this discussion item

...the reason why we thought it would be worthwhile to have this discussion item

15:04:18 <Karen> …because there has been a lot of discussion within MathML on where and how to go

...because there has been a lot of discussion within MathML on where and how to go

15:04:24 <Karen> …and consider some radical changes

...and consider some radical changes

15:04:28 <Ralph> s/…/.../G
15:04:29 <Karen> …so Peter is going to explain this to us

...so Peter is going to explain this to us

15:04:36 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf

Bill Kasdorf: present+ Bill_Kasdorf

15:04:42 <Karen> …Peter, please take the floor

...Peter, please take the floor

15:04:52 <tmichel> present+ Thierry Michel

Thierry Michel: present+ Thierry Michel

15:05:09 <Karen> Speaker: Peter

Scribe problem: the name 'Speaker' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Speaker: Peter

15:05:23 <Karen> Peter: one of reasons to have this on the agenda, is the discussion on the DigPub mailing list

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: one of reasons to have this on the agenda, is the discussion on the DigPub mailing list

15:05:40 <Karen> …what came together at last MathML WG meeting is the rechartering of the MathML WG

...what came together at last MathML WG meeting is the rechartering of the MathML WG

15:05:50 <Karen> …it is up for rechartering next year

...it is up for rechartering next year

15:05:52 <Bert> Present+ Bert

Bert Bos: Present+ Bert

15:06:01 <Karen> …the group has been primarily in maintenance mode and has not created new specs

...the group has been primarily in maintenance mode and has not created new specs

15:06:15 <Karen> …it seems that W3C does not want to have WGs just do maintenance work

...it seems that W3C does not want to have WGs just do maintenance work

15:06:29 <Karen> …so big discussion just kicked off on last call is what the future of the Math WG would be like

...so big discussion just kicked off on last call is what the future of the Math WG would be like

15:06:39 <Karen> …if just maintenance, then it would be turned into a Community Group

...if just maintenance, then it would be turned into a Community Group

15:06:46 <Karen> …seems to be the new status for maintenance focused groups

...seems to be the new status for maintenance focused groups

15:06:58 <Karen> …if that does not happen, then the Math WG needs some other kind of work item

...if that does not happen, then the Math WG needs some other kind of work item

15:07:18 <Karen> …This had not yet led to a lot of discussion on Math WG side, but it has coincided with discussions on Digital Publishing group

...This had not yet led to a lot of discussion on Math WG side, but it has coincided with discussions on Digital Publishing group

15:07:26 <Karen> …and the general direction for MathML

...and the general direction for MathML

15:07:46 <Karen> …and my general background working for MathJax, library that renders MathML on web browsers

...and my general background working for MathJax, library that renders MathML on web browsers

15:07:55 <Karen> …we are working on white paper about potential major revisions

...we are working on white paper about potential major revisions

15:08:02 <Karen> …And our long-term goals

...And our long-term goals

15:08:09 <Karen> …One goal is to further mathematics on the web

...One goal is to further mathematics on the web

15:08:22 <Karen> …and have people publish MathML in browsers

...and have people publish MathML in browsers

15:08:31 <Karen> …native MathML support in browsers has been a long-term goal

...native MathML support in browsers has been a long-term goal

15:08:48 <Karen> …so thinking about this problem, we have come to realization that we have not been successful in that

...so thinking about this problem, we have come to realization that we have not been successful in that

15:09:00 <Karen> …we don't see how we can successfully trigger native browser development for MathML

...we don't see how we can successfully trigger native browser development for MathML

15:09:16 <Karen> …so thinking about how mathematics can be realized on the web if native support is not realistic goal

...so thinking about how mathematics can be realized on the web if native support is not realistic goal

15:09:24 <Karen> …One of things I brought up

...One of things I brought up

15:09:24 <ivan> Present+ Nick

Ivan Herman: Present+ Nick

15:09:34 <Karen> …see if feasible to focus on work of DigPub and ARIA

...see if feasible to focus on work of DigPub and ARIA

15:09:39 <Ralph> -> http://caniuse.com/#feat=mathml "Can I use MathML? report"

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: -> http://caniuse.com/#feat=mathml "Can I use MathML? report"

15:09:39 <Karen> …possibly work on the ARIA side of things

...possibly work on the ARIA side of things

15:09:44 <pbelfanti> Present+ Paul Belfanti (Having trouble logging into WebEx)

Paul Belfanti: Present+ Paul Belfanti (Having trouble logging into WebEx)

15:09:50 <Karen> …ARIA spec has a glaring hole when it comes to mathematics

...ARIA spec has a glaring hole when it comes to mathematics

15:09:56 <Karen> …Seems to be some interest from ARIA folks

...Seems to be some interest from ARIA folks

15:10:16 <Karen> …Other side connects to Houdini work and would revolve around the problem of mathematical layout in browser engines

...Other side connects to Houdini work and would revolve around the problem of mathematical layout in browser engines

15:10:24 <Karen> …to spec out the math layouts that are challenging in CSS

...to spec out the math layouts that are challenging in CSS

15:10:31 <Karen> …this was discussed at last Math WG meeting

...this was discussed at last Math WG meeting

15:10:38 <Karen> …There was not that much interest from Math WG itself

...There was not that much interest from Math WG itself

15:10:48 <Karen> ..but there is interest by myself personally and from MathJax

..but there is interest by myself personally and from MathJax

15:10:57 <Karen> …we don't see how we can get MathML implmented

...we don't see how we can get MathML implmented

15:11:09 <Karen> …Let me stop here and open the queue

...Let me stop here and open the queue

15:11:12 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

15:11:18 <Karen> …Does that make sense? Did I miss anything, Ivan?

...Does that make sense? Did I miss anything, Ivan?

15:11:23 <Karen> Ivan: Maybe one more fact to add

Ivan Herman: Maybe one more fact to add

15:11:37 <Karen> …is of course a Working Group at W3C produces recommendations

...is of course a Working Group at W3C produces recommendations

15:11:47 <TimCole> q+

Timothy Cole: q+

15:11:50 <Karen> …under the new charter this group has the possibility to do proof of concept technical work

...under the new charter this group has the possibility to do proof of concept technical work

15:11:56 <Karen> …we have more possibilities to do things

...we have more possibilities to do things

15:12:09 <Karen> …so some of work and possible directions could very well be done in this group and published by this group

...so some of work and possible directions could very well be done in this group and published by this group

15:12:17 <Karen> …so we could help to move things forward; it's an extra liberty

...so we could help to move things forward; it's an extra liberty

15:12:19 <Karen> ack Tim

ack Tim

15:12:20 <ivan> ack tmichel

Ivan Herman: ack tmichel

15:12:25 <ivan> ack TimCole

Ivan Herman: ack TimCole

15:12:25 <Karen> Tim: So Peter, one of the other

Scribe problem: the name 'Tim' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Tim Clark Timothy Cole . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Tim: So Peter, one of the other

15:12:33 <Karen> …issues that comes up in discussions about MathML

...issues that comes up in discussions about MathML

15:12:39 <Karen> …and wonder about its impact of support

...and wonder about its impact of support

15:12:54 <Karen> …It is in competition in some circles with LATEX

...It is in competition in some circles with LATEX

15:13:08 <Karen> …is there a problem that the community is a little divided about what needs to be decided

...is there a problem that the community is a little divided about what needs to be decided

15:13:15 <Karen> …regarding use of mathematics on the web?

...regarding use of mathematics on the web?

15:13:21 <Karen> Peter: I would say that is not a real debate

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: I would say that is not a real debate

15:13:41 <Karen> …certainly the case that LATEC and other input forms are still prevalent and successful

...certainly the case that LATEX and other input forms are still prevalent and successful

15:13:52 <ivan> s/LATEC/LATEX/
15:13:52 <Karen> …it's rather verbose so you don't author by hand

...it's rather verbose so you don't author by hand

15:13:58 <Karen> …simple syntax

...simple syntax

15:14:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+

Bill Kasdorf: q+

15:14:05 <Karen> …WISIWG has not succeeded

...WISIWG has not succeeded

15:14:16 <Karen> …Math WG has overlap with largest group in form of David @

...Math WG has overlap with largest group in form of David @

15:14:32 <Karen> …there is no competition because LATEC tools can understand and render MathML

...there is no competition because LATEC tools can understand and render MathML

15:14:39 <Karen> …lots of tools do this

...lots of tools do this

15:14:49 <Karen> …more like saying mark-down and HTML are in competition; not a big issue

...more like saying mark-down and HTML are in competition; not a big issue

15:14:54 <Karen> …there is one exception

...there is one exception

15:15:01 <Karen> …@ academies @

...@ academies @

15:15:04 <Karen> …precursor

...precursor

15:15:11 <Karen> …focused on LATEC as a rendering model for the web

...focused on LATEX as a rendering model for the web

15:15:19 <ivan> s/LATEC/LATEX/
15:15:23 <Karen> …in our view, since MathJax went another way, not a good strategy

...in our view, since MathJax went another way, not a good strategy

15:15:28 <Ralph> -> https://khan.github.io/KaTeX/ KaTeX

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: -> https://khan.github.io/KaTeX/ KaTeX

15:15:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q- Just want to reinforce Peter's point that MathML is overwhelmingly preferred in publishing, TeX and LaTex are more for authoring but are usually converted to HTML+MathML when published.

Bill Kasdorf: q- Just want to reinforce Peter's point that MathML is overwhelmingly preferred in publishing, TeX and LaTex are more for authoring but are usually converted to HTML+MathML when published.

15:15:47 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf

Ivan Herman: ack Bill_Kasdorf

15:15:48 <Karen> Ivan: Peter, could you put name on irc that Karen did not catch

Ivan Herman: Peter, could you put name on irc that Karen did not catch

15:15:56 <Karen> Bill: I undid my query

Bill Kasdorf: I undid my query

15:16:13 <Karen> …just reinforcing Peter's point that MathML overwhelmingly preferred by publishing

...just reinforcing Peter's point that MathML overwhelmingly preferred by publishing

15:16:20 <ivan> ack Ralph

Ivan Herman: ack Ralph

15:16:20 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to probe on "native" browser support

Zakim IRC Bot: Ralph, you wanted to probe on "native" browser support

15:16:40 <Karen> Peter: deep down there are some deep technical discussions but don't want to get into those

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: deep down there are some deep technical discussions but don't want to get into those

15:16:43 <Karen> Ralph: Thank you, Peter

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: Thank you, Peter

15:16:55 <Karen> …I work closely with Ivan; he encouraged me to attend this call today

...I work closely with Ivan; he encouraged me to attend this call today

15:17:05 <Karen> …I am with you on frustrations for native browser support

...I am with you on frustrations for native browser support

15:17:13 <Karen> …I'll paste the "can I use folk"

...I'll paste the "can I use folk"

15:17:14 <clapierre> q+

Charles LaPierre: q+

15:17:18 <Ralph> -> http://caniuse.com/#feat=mathml CanIUse MathML

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: -> http://caniuse.com/#feat=mathml CanIUse MathML

15:17:19 <Karen> …show that at least some browsers

...show that at least some browsers

15:17:27 <Karen> …2.5 who do support MathML natively

...2.5 who do support MathML natively

15:17:40 <Karen> …there is some sense in the browser world that polyfils are not a bad way to go

...there is some sense in the browser world that polyfils are not a bad way to go

15:17:54 <Karen> …especially with a domain specific markup language

...especially with a domain specific markup language

15:17:56 <pbelfanti> q+

Paul Belfanti: q+

15:18:18 <Karen> …and doing as a polyfill initially and building a corpus of published stuff on web is the way to encourage browsers  to provide embedded support and not rely on polyfill

...and doing as a polyfill initially and building a corpus of published stuff on web is the way to encourage browsers to provide embedded support and not rely on polyfill

15:18:30 <Karen> …can you say more about what is making MathJax less of a direction that publishers want to go

...can you say more about what is making MathJax less of a direction that publishers want to go

15:18:39 <Karen> …Bill is saying MathML is preferred format for pubishers

...Bill is saying MathML is preferred format for pubishers

15:18:48 <Karen> …and MathJax works; so what is impeding its use?

...and MathJax works; so what is impeding its use?

15:19:06 <Karen> Peter: The first thing about the browser support; 'can I use this' is misleading

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: The first thing about the browser support; 'can I use this' is misleading

15:19:13 <Karen> …the implementations are partial

...the implementations are partial

15:19:23 <Karen> …biggest problem is that WebKit is not anywhere near production ready

...biggest problem is that WebKit is not anywhere near production ready

15:19:33 <Karen> …Geco is much better

...Gecko is much better

15:19:45 <Karen> …biggest issue with browser support is that browser vendors are not doing it

...biggest issue with browser support is that browser vendors are not doing it

15:19:51 <AH_Miller> The fact that Antenna House supports MathML with our XSL-FO engine sells a lot of licenses for us.

Michael Miller: The fact that Antenna House supports MathML with our XSL-FO engine sells a lot of licenses for us.

15:19:58 <Karen> …code is almost exclusively written by volunteers

...code is almost exclusively written by volunteers

15:20:10 <Karen> …WebKit went through several volunteers and failed to gain interest

...WebKit went through several volunteers and failed to gain interest

15:20:12 <Ralph> s/Geco is/Gecko is/
15:20:17 <Karen> …Apple invested in voice-over

...Apple invested in voice-over

15:20:26 <Karen> …Google, Chrome speaks but does not render it

...Google, Chrome speaks but does not render it

15:20:30 <Karen> …With Gecko it is different

...With Gecko it is different

15:20:43 <Karen> …clear that they don't currently have their own developers working on the code

...clear that they don't currently have their own developers working on the code

15:20:55 <Karen> …Mozilla will invest time to fix issues they create

...Mozilla will invest time to fix issues they create

15:21:04 <Karen> …but they don't actively implement which is a huge issue

...but they don't actively implement which is a huge issue

15:21:11 <Karen> …have been some spurts along the way

...have been some spurts along the way

15:21:22 <Karen> …if we wait around, it would take five years to get to production levels

...if we wait around, it would take five years to get to production levels

15:21:28 <Karen> …Why is MathJax not good enough?

...Why is MathJax not good enough?

15:21:29 <dauwhe> present+ Dave_Cramer

Dave Cramer: present+ Dave_Cramer

15:21:38 <Karen> …We are mission driven, we want to see native driven

...We are mission driven, we want to see native driven

15:21:52 <Karen> …and math is fundamental to communications; MathML fills that language gap

...and math is fundamental to communications; MathML fills that language gap

15:21:59 <Karen> …still lots to do in MathML3

...still lots to do in MathML3

15:22:03 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

15:22:05 <Karen> …practically speaking it's performance

...practically speaking it's performance

15:22:13 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:22:16 <Karen> …MathML is a very complex spec and math layout itself is complex

...MathML is a very complex spec and math layout itself is complex

15:22:32 <Karen> …expects a high level of typography that web does not yet have

...expects a high level of typography that web does not yet have

15:22:38 <Karen> …polyfill does not cut it yet

...polyfill does not cut it yet

15:22:59 <Karen> …in next release of MathJax we have a new output component that does not require rendering on the client

...in next release of MathJax we have a new output component that does not require rendering on the client

15:23:11 <Karen> …pragmatic reasons where you don't have Java scrip under your control

...pragmatic reasons where you don't have Java scrip under your control

15:23:13 <Ralph> [thanks for this data, Peter; it will be useful as we continue push on browser developers]

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: [thanks for this data, Peter; it will be useful as we continue push on browser developers]

15:23:23 <Karen> …or suffer from network  congestion on mobile devices

...or suffer from network congestion on mobile devices

15:23:28 <ivan> ack clapierre

Ivan Herman: ack clapierre

15:23:30 <Karen> …not depending on JS is crucial

...not depending on JS is crucial

15:23:31 <Karen> ack Charles

ack Charles

15:23:39 <clapierre> https://mathml-cloud.cloudapp.net

Charles LaPierre: https://mathml-cloud.cloudapp.net

15:23:43 <Karen> Charles: I wanted to touch on a couple things about what we are doing at Benetech

Charles LaPierre: I wanted to touch on a couple things about what we are doing at Benetech

15:23:58 <Karen> …MathML cloud to take either LATEX or MathML to give an accessibility description

...MathML cloud to take either LATEX or MathML to give an accessibility description

15:24:04 <Karen> …we have some publishers using this in their pipeline

...we have some publishers using this in their pipeline

15:24:09 <Karen> …using as alt text

...using as alt text

15:24:15 <Karen> …or description document

...or description document

15:24:21 <Karen> …Benetech is also working on a matrix

...Benetech is also working on a matrix

15:24:39 <Karen> …a datebase, volunteer driven, as to what browsers, AT tech, MathJax

...a datebase, volunteer driven, as to what browsers, AT tech, MathJax

15:24:46 <Karen> …depending on OS, to fill that out

...depending on OS, to fill that out

15:24:52 <Karen> …currently in alpha we are working on that

...currently in alpha we are working on that

15:25:03 <Karen> …and working with Readium folks who are working on MathML support in their products

...and working with Readium folks who are working on MathML support in their products

15:25:12 <Karen> …We are fully behind this and want to see it succeed

...We are fully behind this and want to see it succeed

15:25:16 <ivan> ack pbelfanti

Ivan Herman: ack pbelfanti

15:25:19 <Karen> …success of MathML is key

...success of MathML is key

15:25:25 <Karen> Paul: quick question...

Paul Belfanti: quick question...

15:25:34 <Karen> Peter: point out that Readium includes MathJax

Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Peter: point out that Readium includes MathJax

15:25:44 <Karen> …problem is that reading system developers don't integrate it into their reader

...problem is that reading system developers don't integrate it into their reader

15:25:55 <Karen> …like Apple OS claims they have support but they don't...

...like Apple OS claims they have support but they don't...

15:26:00 <Karen> …why include a tool like MathJax

...why include a tool like MathJax

15:26:05 <Karen> …uses math on server

...uses math on server

15:26:30 <Karen> Paul: I had a question about the previous statements on using polyfills as a viable option from an accessibility POV

Paul Belfanti: I had a question about the previous statements on using polyfills as a viable option from an accessibility POV

15:26:44 <Karen> Peter: older than that

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Unknown Peter: older than that

15:26:55 <Karen> …MathJax is not built in way to leverage partial implementations

...MathJax is not built in way to leverage partial implementations

15:27:09 <Karen> …looking to future you could look at web components; shadow DOM

...looking to future you could look at web components; shadow DOM

15:27:11 <Ralph> i|Scribe: Karen|scribenick: Karen

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: i|Scribe: Karen|scribenick: Karen

15:27:15 <Karen> …we are disregarding

...we are disregarding

15:27:27 <Karen> …simply because it does not buy us anything; does not solve the rendering issues

...simply because it does not buy us anything; does not solve the rendering issues

15:27:35 <Karen> …Houdini has hope of simplifying the rendering

...Houdini has hope of simplifying the rendering

15:27:39 <Karen> …and doing the main job

...and doing the main job

15:27:43 <Karen> …that is something you can do

...that is something you can do

15:27:46 <Karen> …but at same time

...but at same time

15:28:07 <Karen> …you have actually a mark-up that should be possible to make HTML and SVG accessible on a level for MathML; that's what ARIA

...you have actually a mark-up that should be possible to make HTML and SVG accessible on a level for MathML; that's what ARIA

15:28:09 <Karen> ...does

...does

15:28:14 <Karen> …would be prudent to have a tool set

...would be prudent to have a tool set

15:28:34 <Karen> …whatever direction math on web takes, it should supercede MathML

...whatever direction math on web takes, it should supercede MathML

15:28:40 <Ralph> i|Peter: older|[Peter notes that MathJax is not a polyfill in the modern sense]

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 99 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Avneesh Singh Ayla Stein Ben Holden-Crowther Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Chris Lilley Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Flanagan Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jeff Xu Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Johannes Wilm John Shaw Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kasar Masood Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Leonard Rosenthol Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Matt Garrish Mia Lipner Michael Miller Michael Cooper Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nicholas Ruffilo Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Patrick Keating Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Rajesh Ranjan Richard Schwerdtfeger Richard Ishida Robert Sanderson Satoshi Kojima Shane McCarron Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom De Nies Toru Kawakubo Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vladimir Levantovsky William McCoy William Mischo Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: i|Peter: older|[Peter notes that MathJax is not a polyfill in the modern sense]

15:28:56 <Karen> Scribenick: Dauwhe

(Scribe set to Dave Cramer)

15:28:57 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
15:29:03 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:29:13 <dauwhe> ivan: I see that Karen is leaving

Ivan Herman: I see that Karen is leaving

15:29:23 <dauwhe> ... do you have to run now?

... do you have to run now?

15:29:27 <dauwhe> pkra: I can do one more

Peter Krautzberger: I can do one more

15:29:32 <dauwhe> ivan: I was on the queue

Ivan Herman: I was on the queue

15:29:55 <dauwhe> ... let's say you have a free hand in the sense of trying to modify MathML to work better with current environment

... let's say you have a free hand in the sense of trying to modify MathML to work better with current environment

15:30:01 <dauwhe> ... and you had a free hand in MathJax

... and you had a free hand in MathJax

15:30:16 <dauwhe> ... what could be done to move the whole situation out of the current "dip"

... what could be done to move the whole situation out of the current "dip"

15:30:21 <dauwhe> ... what actions would be useful?

... what actions would be useful?

15:30:38 <dauwhe> ... taking into account that the browsers don't care

... taking into account that the browsers don't care

15:30:59 <dauwhe> ... we can put possible answers on the agenda for a new meeting

... we can put possible answers on the agenda for a new meeting

15:31:19 <dauwhe> ... we have an idea of where we are, the question is where we can go

... we have an idea of where we are, the question is where we can go

15:31:29 <dauwhe> ... this can be discussed at TPAC

... this can be discussed at TPAC

15:31:34 <dauwhe> pkra: I won't be at TPAC

Peter Krautzberger: I won't be at TPAC

15:31:55 <dauwhe> ivan: thank you very much Peter!

Ivan Herman: thank you very much Peter!

15:32:26 <dauwhe> ivan: we did not plan for other agenda items

Ivan Herman: we did not plan for other agenda items

15:32:39 <dauwhe> ... are there any pressing items?

... are there any pressing items?

15:33:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> Dave has permanent merit status. A few minutes of scribing makes no difference.

Bill Kasdorf: Dave has permanent merit status. A few minutes of scribing makes no difference.

15:33:11 <dauwhe> ... so let's get back to the topic next week, and we can gather questions

... so let's get back to the topic next week, and we can gather questions

15:33:24 <dauwhe> ivan: meeting is adjourned. Thanks all!

Ivan Herman: meeting is adjourned. Thanks all!

15:36:52 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes

15:36:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-minutes.html ivan

15:37:04 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon

Ivan Herman: trackbot, end telcon

15:37:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

15:37:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Miller, Ralph_Swick, Peter, Krautzberger, Alan, Stearns, Tim_Cole, Charles_LaPierre, duga, Karen, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, Michel, Bert,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Miller, Ralph_Swick, Peter, Krautzberger, Alan, Stearns, Tim_Cole, Charles_LaPierre, duga, Karen, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, Michel, Bert,

15:37:07 <Zakim> ... Nick, Paul, Belfanti, (Having, trouble, logging, into, WebEx), Dave_Cramer

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Nick, Paul, Belfanti, (Having, trouble, logging, into, WebEx), Dave_Cramer

15:37:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:37:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/14-dpub-minutes.html trackbot

15:37:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

15:37:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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