edit

Digital Publishing IG Telco

Minutes of 01 June 2015

Agenda
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015May/0044.html
Present
Ivan Herman
Chair
Unknown tzviya
Scribe
Unknown dauwhe
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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14:07:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-dpub-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-dpub-irc

14:07:31 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, set log public

14:07:53 <ivan> Meeting: Digital Publishing IG Telco
14:08:09 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:09:42 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015May/0044.html
14:10:14 <ivan> Date: 2015-05-01
14:58:15 <dauwhe> Really interesting discussion of packaging in the public-web-perf ML. One highlight: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Jan/0041.html

(No events recorded for 50 minutes)

Dave Cramer: Really interesting discussion of packaging in the public-web-perf ML. One highlight: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Jan/0041.html

15:00:38 <tmichel> The audio is really bad. can't understand anything ...

Thierry Michel: The audio is really bad. can't understand anything ...

15:01:22 <ivan> Present: ivan_Herman
15:01:38 <tmichel> +Thierry Michel

Scribe problem: the name 'tmichel' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'tmichel' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tmichel: +Thierry Michel

15:01:40 <ivan> Present+ Dave_Cramer

Ivan Herman: Present+ Dave_Cramer

15:01:51 <ivan> Present+ Jeff_Xu

Ivan Herman: Present+ Jeff_Xu

15:02:08 <ivan> Present+ Charles

Ivan Herman: Present+ Charles

15:02:09 <ivan> Present Laura_Dawson

Ivan Herman: Present Laura_Dawson

15:02:19 <ivan> Present+ Michael_Miller

Ivan Herman: Present+ Michael_Miller

15:02:29 <ivan> Present_ Phil_Madans

Ivan Herman: Present_ Phil_Madans

15:02:37 <ivan> Pressent+ Phil_Madans

Ivan Herman: Pressent+ Phil_Madans

15:02:40 <tzviya> present+ TzviyaSiegman

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tzviya: present+ TzviyaSiegman

15:03:03 <tzviya> for call in information, see http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/WebEx

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tzviya: for call in information, see http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/WebEx

15:03:13 <brady_duga> present+ duga

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Unknown brady_duga: present+ duga

15:03:19 <ivan> Pressent+ Bert

Ivan Herman: Pressent+ Bert

15:03:24 <ivan> Present+ Bert

Ivan Herman: Present+ Bert

15:03:35 <astearns> present+ astearns

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Unknown astearns: present+ astearns

15:03:50 <ivan> Present+ bjdmeest

Ivan Herman: Present+ bjdmeest

15:04:11 <ivan> Present+ kwkbtr

Ivan Herman: Present+ kwkbtr

15:04:19 <HeatherF> YOu can see who is making noise on WebEx by looking at the "Speaking" bar in the top right

Scribe problem: the name 'HeatherF' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'HeatherF' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown HeatherF: YOu can see who is making noise on WebEx by looking at the "Speaking" bar in the top right

15:04:41 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

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(Scribe set to Unknown dauwhe)

15:04:45 <tzviya> chair: tzviya

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15:04:57 <HeatherF> Also, if the host mutes a person, that person cannot unmute themselves. They'll need to ask via chat.

Scribe problem: the name 'HeatherF' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'HeatherF' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown HeatherF: Also, if the host mutes a person, that person cannot unmute themselves. They'll need to ask via chat.

15:05:03 <dauwhe> all: gnashing of teeth around audio issues

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Unknown all: gnashing of teeth around audio issues

15:05:30 <dauwhe> tzviya: first we will approve minutes

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Unknown tzviya: first we will approve minutes

15:05:33 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/05/17-dpub-minutes.html

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tzviya: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/17-dpub-minutes.html

15:05:36 <dauwhe> ... minutes from last phone call

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... minutes from last phone call

15:05:40 <dauwhe> ... any comments?

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... any comments?

15:05:48 <dauwhe> [crickets]

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

[crickets]

15:05:57 <dauwhe> ... minutes are approved

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... minutes are approved

15:06:11 <dauwhe> ... thanks to Ivan for summarizing F2F and doing tons of other work

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... thanks to Ivan for summarizing F2F and doing tons of other work

15:06:21 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-dpub-minutes.html

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'tzviya' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown tzviya: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-dpub-minutes.html

15:06:28 <dauwhe> ... any comments on F2F minutes?

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... any comments on F2F minutes?

15:06:32 <dauwhe> [crickets]

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

[crickets]

15:06:49 <HeatherF> Yay for scribes!

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Unknown HeatherF: Yay for scribes!

15:06:50 <dauwhe> ... we will stipulate that all have read the minutes.

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Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... we will stipulate that all have read the minutes.

15:06:55 <dauwhe> ... minutes are approved.

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... minutes are approved.

15:07:33 <dauwhe> ... next item is recap of F2F, so let's take a look at Ivan's summary

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... next item is recap of F2F, so let's take a look at Ivan's summary

15:07:55 <HeatherF> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6d1eb70a7eb2ba2a067e

Scribe problem: the name 'HeatherF' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

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Unknown HeatherF: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6d1eb70a7eb2ba2a067e

15:07:56 <ivan> sumary fo f2f: http://www.w3.org/blog/dpub/2015/05/30/dpub-ig-face-to-face-2015-05-26/?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=dpub-ig-face-to-face-2015-05-26

Ivan Herman: sumary fo f2f: http://www.w3.org/blog/dpub/2015/05/30/dpub-ig-face-to-face-2015-05-26/?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=dpub-ig-face-to-face-2015-05-26

15:08:14 <dauwhe> ... we had an excellent F2F

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... we had an excellent F2F

15:08:28 <dauwhe> ... we have lots of work ahead

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Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... we have lots of work ahead

15:08:33 <dauwhe> ... [1] Packaging

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Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... [1] Packaging

15:08:47 <dauwhe> ... we need to define core requirements, and decide if we need packaging

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... we need to define core requirements, and decide if we need packaging

15:09:03 <dauwhe> ... [2] identifiers, and laying out requirements

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... [2] identifiers, and laying out requirements

15:09:23 <dauwhe> ... [3] pagination, and relationship to CSSWG and Houdini. Dave will be talking to CSSWG

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... [3] pagination, and relationship to CSSWG and Houdini. Dave will be talking to CSSWG

15:09:37 <dauwhe> ... [4] a11y. Defining goals of task force, working on docs

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... [4] a11y. Defining goals of task force, working on docs

15:10:01 <dauwhe> ... serving as liason with other publishing groups like BISG

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... serving as liason with other publishing groups like BISG

15:10:11 <dauwhe> ... [5] Education outreach

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Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... [5] Education outreach

15:10:19 <dauwhe> ... people don't know what we do now

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... people don't know what we do now

15:10:31 <dauwhe> ... we have blog, slides, etc

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... we have blog, slides, etc

15:10:38 <dauwhe> ... [6] rechartering

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... [6] rechartering

15:10:39 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:10:45 <dauwhe> ... and the future of this group over next two years

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Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... and the future of this group over next two years

15:10:50 <dauwhe> ... any comments?

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... any comments?

15:10:54 <dauwhe> [crickets]

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dauwhe' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ivan Herman Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

[crickets]

15:11:02 <Karen_> q+

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Unknown Karen_: q+

15:11:06 <tzviya> ack K

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Unknown tzviya: ack K

15:11:07 <laudrain> q+

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Unknown laudrain: q+

15:11:09 <ivan> ack Karen_

Ivan Herman: ack Karen_

15:11:28 <dauwhe> Karen_: thanks to IDPF board members for attending, and Diane Kennedy from IDEAliance

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Unknown Karen_: thanks to IDPF board members for attending, and Diane Kennedy from IDEAliance

15:11:39 <dauwhe> tzviya: it was good to have a diverse group

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Unknown tzviya: it was good to have a diverse group

15:11:50 <tzviya> ack la

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Unknown tzviya: ack la

15:12:03 <dauwhe> laudrain: reading the summary, i was wondering about education

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Unknown laudrain: reading the summary, i was wondering about education

15:12:10 <dauwhe> ... did you speak about edupub?

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... did you speak about edupub?

15:12:33 <dauwhe> tzviya: we talked about educating the publishing community, not about edupub as a topic

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Unknown tzviya: we talked about educating the publishing community, not about edupub as a topic

15:12:54 <dauwhe> ... Ivan, Markus, and Ralph discussed rechartering on Friday

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... Ivan, Markus, and Ralph discussed rechartering on Friday

15:13:01 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-charter/issues

Ivan Herman: https://github.com/w3c/dpub-charter/issues

15:13:04 <dauwhe> ivan: I collected the various items on what we decided

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Ivan Herman: I collected the various items on what we decided

15:13:13 <dauwhe> ... and put up as series of issues on github

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... and put up as series of issues on github

15:13:16 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-charter/labels/DPUB%20IG%20comments

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Unknown tzviya: https://github.com/w3c/dpub-charter/labels/DPUB%20IG%20comments

15:13:38 <dauwhe> ... 1 issue is to make it clear taht the new group is not completely new

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... 1 issue is to make it clear that the new group is not completely new

15:13:46 <dauwhe> ... we must follow up on work already started

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... we must follow up on work already started

15:13:51 <dauwhe> s/taht/that/
15:14:20 <dauwhe> ... the other thing is possible misunderstanding on epubweb story

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... the other thing is possible misunderstanding on epubweb story

15:14:38 <dauwhe> ... and there were conflicting misunderstandings

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... and there were conflicting misunderstandings

15:15:05 <dauwhe> ... some voices seemed to understand this is a profile of epub like edupub is a profile of epub; this is not true

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... some voices seemed to understand this is a profile of epub like edupub is a profile of epub; this is not true

15:15:27 <dauwhe> ... others were afraid that it's throwing epub 3.01 out of the window; this is not true

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... others were afraid that it's throwing epub 3.01 out of the window; this is not true

15:15:57 <dauwhe> ... this is also not restricted to books, also includes journals and magazines; this is true :)

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... this is also not restricted to books, also includes journals and magazines; this is true :)

15:16:07 <dauwhe> ... what is a possible alternative name for epubweb?

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... what is a possible alternative name for epubweb?

15:16:21 <dauwhe> ... we did not find a consensus, as all possible names have downsides

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... we did not find a consensus, as all possible names have downsides

15:16:34 <dauwhe> ... and we could easily descend into css-style bikeshedding

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... and we could easily descend into css-style bikeshedding

15:16:52 <dauwhe> ... we could call the whole thing EPUB+WEB

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... we could call the whole thing EPUB+WEB

15:17:02 <dauwhe> ... (emphasis on "+")

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... (emphasis on "+")

15:17:12 <dauwhe> ... may be temporary, but I don't have anything better

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... may be temporary, but I don't have anything better

15:17:19 <dauwhe> ... there are stylistic issues

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... there are stylistic issues

15:17:38 <dauwhe> ... Heather pointed us to an IETF draft on packaging

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... Heather pointed us to an IETF draft on packaging

15:18:08 <dauwhe> ... it's not an alternative to w3c spec, but rather having a top-level name for package, then package/epub etc

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... it's not an alternative to w3c spec, but rather having a top-level name for package, then package/epub etc

15:18:24 <HeatherF> http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/arcmedia/charter/

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Unknown HeatherF: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/arcmedia/charter/

15:18:37 <dauwhe> ... this shows that whole issue of packaging is interesting, and lots of people are thinking of it

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... this shows that whole issue of packaging is interesting, and lots of people are thinking of it

15:18:53 <dauwhe> ... that's what happened on the charter

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... that's what happened on the charter

15:19:13 <dauwhe> ... I'm busy changing the charter, you can see it on new branch on github

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... I'm busy changing the charter, you can see it on new branch on github

15:19:36 <dauwhe> ... the biggest problem is the deliverables and milestones

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... the biggest problem is the deliverables and milestones

15:19:48 <dauwhe> ... i hope a new draft will be available on Tuesday or Wednesday

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... i hope a new draft will be available on Tuesday or Wednesday

15:19:54 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:19:59 <dauwhe> ... and I really really really really really really want comments

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... and I really really really really really really want comments

15:20:20 <dauwhe> ... tzviya, did I forget anything?

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... tzviya, did I forget anything?

15:20:47 <dauwhe> tzviya: I'd cut down on number of issues, and focus on big ones, like packaging, identifiers, pagination

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Unknown tzviya: I'd cut down on number of issues, and focus on big ones, like packaging, identifiers, pagination

15:21:04 <dauwhe> ... not everything we work on will be in charter, as they fall under bigger issues

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... not everything we work on will be in charter, as they fall under bigger issues

15:21:20 <dauwhe> ... we'll have milestones and even deadlines

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... we'll have milestones and even deadlines

15:21:38 <ivan> https://rawgit.com/w3c/dpub-charter/post-f2f/index.html current draft

Ivan Herman: https://rawgit.com/w3c/dpub-charter/post-f2f/index.html current draft

15:21:39 <dauwhe> ivan: this is the current draft

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Ivan Herman: this is the current draft

15:21:59 <dauwhe> ivan: Does HeatherL have any comment on IETF work?

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Ivan Herman: Does HeatherF have any comment on IETF work?

15:22:13 <pkra> take the red pill.

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Unknown pkra: take the red pill.

15:22:19 <tzviya> s/HeatherL/HeatherF
15:22:21 <dauwhe> HeatherF: the arcmedia group is still mostly getting started, a good time to get engaged

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Unknown HeatherF: the arcmedia group is still mostly getting started, a good time to get engaged

15:22:36 <dauwhe> ... the next ietf meeting is July in Prague; most work is done on mailing lists

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... the next ietf meeting is July in Prague; most work is done on mailing lists

15:22:42 <dauwhe> ivan: will you be there?

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Ivan Herman: will you be there?

15:22:45 <dauwhe> HeatherF: Yes

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Unknown HeatherF: Yes

15:22:53 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:22:53 <dauwhe> ivan: that will be interesting!

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Ivan Herman: that will be interesting!

15:23:21 <dauwhe> tzviya: I wanted to stress is that this the point where we decide what we're doing for the next two years

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Unknown tzviya: I wanted to stress is that this the point where we decide what we're doing for the next two years

15:23:28 <dauwhe> ... this is the soul-searching moment

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... this is the soul-searching moment

15:23:40 <dauwhe> ... speak now!

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... speak now!

15:23:46 <dauwhe> ... or else.

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... or else.

15:24:00 <dauwhe> [mysterious beep]

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[mysterious beep]

15:24:02 <HeatherF> I haven't had a chance to review the latest text, but I have it on my list for this week.

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Unknown HeatherF: I haven't had a chance to review the latest text, but I have it on my list for this week.

15:24:31 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Functional_Requirements#Functional_Requirements_for_Packaging_Spec

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Unknown tzviya: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Functional_Requirements#Functional_Requirements_for_Packaging_Spec

15:24:43 <dauwhe> tzviya: We need to start to put together functional requirements for various things

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Unknown tzviya: We need to start to put together functional requirements for various things

15:25:04 <dauwhe> ... I wrote up some functional requirements for packaging, dauwhe added a few comments

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... I wrote up some functional requirements for packaging, dauwhe added a few comments

15:26:01 <dauwhe> ... [reading from requirements]

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... [reading from requirements]

15:26:26 <dauwhe> ivan: I don't understand "multiple methods of navigation"

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Ivan Herman: I don't understand "multiple methods of navigation"

15:26:39 <dauwhe> tzviya: in addition to trad toc, we need a list of tables, etc

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Unknown tzviya: in addition to trad toc, we need a list of tables, etc

15:26:55 <dauwhe> ... might not be part of packaging, or something you build out of ARIA

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... might not be part of packaging, or something you build out of ARIA

15:27:25 <HeatherF> q+

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Unknown HeatherF: q+

15:27:57 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:29:49 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:29:53 <tzviya> ack he

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Unknown tzviya: ack he

15:30:08 <brady_duga> q+

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Unknown brady_duga: q+

15:30:18 <dauwhe> HeatherF: with regards to no file size limitations, I thought we decided the operating systems may be the problem

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Unknown HeatherF: with regards to no file size limitations, I thought we decided the operating systems may be the problem

15:30:30 <dauwhe> ... so I'm not sure if we can do anything

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... so I'm not sure if we can do anything

15:30:50 <ivan> ack brady_duga

Ivan Herman: ack brady_duga

15:30:53 <dauwhe> brady_duga: at the end of the day it's nice to say there's no file size limits

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Unknown brady_duga: at the end of the day it's nice to say there's no file size limits

15:31:07 <dauwhe> ... i've seen 600k CSS files, but we handle it slowly

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... i've seen 600k CSS files, but we handle it slowly

15:31:22 <dauwhe> ... we can't handle arbitrarily large content, in practice there will be limits

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... we can't handle arbitrarily large content, in practice there will be limits

15:31:37 <dauwhe> ... in terms of zip, reading systems must support zip 64

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... in terms of zip, reading systems must support zip 64

15:31:52 <dauwhe> ... if you give me a book larger than zip64 limit, I refuse to process

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... if you give me a book larger than zip64 limit, I refuse to process

15:32:01 <dauwhe> ... so I don't thing there's a serious limit in epub today

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... so I don't thing there's a serious limit in epub today

15:32:11 <dauwhe> tzviya: how would you modify the file size comment

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Unknown tzviya: how would you modify the file size comment

15:32:29 <dauwhe> brady_duga: saying there's no limit is impossible because physics

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Unknown brady_duga: saying there's no limit is impossible because physics

15:32:41 <dauwhe> ... a really huge limit is fine

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... a really huge limit is fine

15:32:56 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:32:58 <dauwhe> ... any limit we set today will be meaningless in five years

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... any limit we set today will be meaningless in five years

15:33:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: does that work for you

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Unknown tzviya: does that work for you

15:33:18 <dauwhe> HeatherF: I'm sad we can't just say, "Don't be stupid!"

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Unknown HeatherF: I'm sad we can't just say, "Don't be stupid!"

15:33:30 <Jeff_Xu> q+

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Unknown Jeff_Xu: q+

15:33:38 <tzviya> ack iv

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Unknown tzviya: ack iv

15:33:39 <HeatherF> :-)

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Unknown HeatherF: :-)

15:33:39 <dauwhe> tzviya: anything else, brady?

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Unknown tzviya: anything else, brady?

15:33:46 <dauwhe> ivan: there's a minor thing

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Ivan Herman: there's a minor thing

15:33:57 <dauwhe> ... maybe we want to add possibility of heirarchy

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... maybe we want to add possibility of heirarchy

15:34:05 <dauwhe> ... you already do this in edupub

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... you already do this in edupub

15:34:16 <dauwhe> tzviya: I'll add this

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Unknown tzviya: I'll add this

15:34:22 <dauwhe> ivan: the other thing is more complicated

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Ivan Herman: the other thing is more complicated

15:34:30 <ivan> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Jun/0001.html

Ivan Herman: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Jun/0001.html

15:34:37 <dauwhe> ... I sent an email a few hours ago, early in the U.S. morning

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... I sent an email a few hours ago, early in the U.S. morning

15:34:54 <dauwhe> ... we have a separate issue in fragmentation, but the problem is interrelated

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... we have a separate issue in fragmentation, but the problem is interrelated

15:35:12 <dauwhe> ... [fragment IDs, unrelated to layout]

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... [fragment IDs, unrelated to layout]

15:35:22 <dauwhe> ... problem is with online vs offline

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... problem is with online vs offline

15:35:40 <tzviya> email discussion: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Jun/0001.html

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Unknown tzviya: email discussion: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Jun/0001.html

15:35:53 <dauwhe> ... if there's no packaging, some of these issues disappear, says brady_duga

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... if there's no packaging, some of these issues disappear, says brady_duga

15:36:02 <dauwhe> ... so first question is, do we need a package at all?

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... so first question is, do we need a package at all?

15:36:09 <dauwhe> ... we had part of that question last week

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... we had part of that question last week

15:36:21 <dauwhe> ... we had some consensus about needing a package

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... we had some consensus about needing a package

15:36:32 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:36:37 <dauwhe> ... we need differentiation between publication as package and on web

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... we need differentiation between publication as package and on web

15:36:41 <dauwhe> ... there are deep issues here

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... there are deep issues here

15:36:56 <dauwhe> tzviya: I've been in meetings all morning, but haven't read the email chain

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Unknown tzviya: I've been in meetings all morning, but haven't read the email chain

15:37:04 <dauwhe> ... I think it needs to be a long discussion

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... I think it needs to be a long discussion

15:37:12 <dauwhe> ... for purpose of requirements

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... for purpose of requirements

15:37:15 <brady_duga> q+

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Unknown brady_duga: q+

15:37:24 <dauwhe> ... a package is necessary; I tried to capture it in first item

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... a package is necessary; I tried to capture it in first item

15:37:34 <dauwhe> ... I can break that into two items

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... I can break that into two items

15:38:00 <dauwhe> [uncomfortable silence]

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[uncomfortable silence]

15:38:02 <tzviya> ack jeff

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Unknown tzviya: ack jeff

15:38:12 <dauwhe> Jeff_Xu: First time for me at this meeting

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Unknown Jeff_Xu: First time for me at this meeting

15:38:20 <dauwhe> ... I have question about file size limitation

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... I have question about file size limitation

15:38:31 <dauwhe> ... even if OS can allow large package

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... even if OS can allow large package

15:38:50 <dauwhe> ... how to download package efficiently, is that in the scope of our requirements

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... how to download package efficiently, is that in the scope of our requirements

15:39:18 <dauwhe> tzviya: I don't think we want to talk about specific component size limits

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Unknown tzviya: I don't think we want to talk about specific component size limits

15:39:22 <dauwhe> ... things like change over time

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... things like that change over time

15:39:30 <dauwhe> s/like/like that/
15:39:43 <dauwhe> ... if we say a video can only be 1g today

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... if we say a video can only be 1g today

15:39:50 <dauwhe> ... in a few years the limit may be higher

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... in a few years the limit may be higher

15:40:04 <dauwhe> ... we're all in agreement that file size should not be specified

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... we're all in agreement that file size should not be specified

15:40:18 <dauwhe> Jeff_Xu: even with size limitations now, can be changed in future

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Unknown Jeff_Xu: even with size limitations now, can be changed in future

15:40:37 <tzviya> ack br

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Unknown tzviya: ack br

15:40:37 <dauwhe> ... do we want to provide protocol to download large packaage separately

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... do we want to provide protocol to download large packaage separately

15:40:47 <dauwhe> brady_duga: I'm on queue for different reasons

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Unknown brady_duga: I'm on queue for different reasons

15:41:27 <dauwhe> tzviya: if anyone has opinions on what we should be telling systems about downloading then please stand up

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Unknown tzviya: if anyone has opinions on what we should be telling systems about downloading then please stand up

15:41:39 <dauwhe> brady_duga: other than best practices docs, there's not anything we tell people today

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Unknown brady_duga: other than best practices docs, there's not anything we tell people today

15:41:50 <dauwhe> Jeff_Xu: maybe it's not in scope

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Unknown Jeff_Xu: maybe it's not in scope

15:42:10 <dauwhe> ... when we download audio book or comic book it's really large

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... when we download audio book or comic book it's really large

15:42:16 <dauwhe> ... can be really slow

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... can be really slow

15:42:35 <dauwhe> ... or maybe some other group should talk about this

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... or maybe some other group should talk about this

15:42:45 <dauwhe> brady_duga: this is covered by streamable and random access

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Unknown brady_duga: this is covered by streamable and random access

15:42:52 <dauwhe> Jeff_Xu: yes

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Unknown Jeff_Xu: yes

15:42:54 <dauwhe> tzviya: OK

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Unknown tzviya: OK

15:43:11 <dauwhe> brady_duga: do we need a packaging format? in some sense the answer is yes

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Unknown brady_duga: do we need a packaging format? in some sense the answer is yes

15:43:17 <dauwhe> ... we have one today

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... we have one today

15:43:27 <dauwhe> ... the question is, other than for portablility

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... the question is, other than for portablility

15:43:52 <dauwhe> ... do I need a package if I'm not transferrring between people

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... do I need a package if I'm not transferrring between people

15:44:01 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:44:12 <dauwhe> ... if I'm a reading system, I don't think we need a packaging format

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... if I'm a reading system, I don't think we need a packaging format

15:44:29 <dauwhe> ... we don't need random access if we're just transferring things betweeen people

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... we don't need random access if we're just transferring things betweeen people

15:44:52 <dauwhe> ... but the reading system does need to support random access, but that could happen with expanded files

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... but the reading system does need to support random access, but that could happen with expanded files

15:45:15 <dauwhe> ... my real comment is, do we need a packaging format for anything other than transferring between entities?

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... my real comment is, do we need a packaging format for anything other than transferring between entities?

15:45:34 <tzviya> ack iv

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Unknown tzviya: ack iv

15:45:39 <dauwhe> tzviya: more important for identity? So I can point to something in ten years. Maybe it's about archiving

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Unknown tzviya: more important for identity? So I can point to something in ten years. Maybe it's about archiving

15:46:04 <dauwhe> ivan: the whole idea, conceptually, of this epub+web story, is that the two cases you refer to

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Ivan Herman: the whole idea, conceptually, of this epub+web story, is that the two cases you refer to

15:46:12 <dauwhe> ... I have book downloaded vs I have book on web

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... I have book downloaded vs I have book on web

15:46:24 <dauwhe> ... there should be no difference between these two situations

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... there should be no difference between these two situations

15:46:40 <dauwhe> ... if book is completely online, then I agree for that purpose you don't need packaging

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... if book is completely online, then I agree for that purpose you don't need packaging

15:46:50 <dauwhe> ... in the sense of a zip or tar on a disk

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... in the sense of a zip or tar on a disk

15:47:14 <dauwhe> ... distinguish between physical packaging and logical entitiy

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... distinguish between physical packaging and logical entitiy

15:47:32 <dauwhe> ... the logical entity is a colleciton of files which together make a publication

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... the logical entity is a colleciton of files which together make a publication

15:47:40 <dauwhe> ... a "virtual package"

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... a "virtual package"

15:47:45 <dauwhe> ... we need to have a URI

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... we need to have a URI

15:47:53 <dauwhe> ... the discussion I started is around that

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... the discussion I started is around that

15:48:12 <dauwhe> ... I would like to see a URI for the package, and for each of the constituents, whether the package is virtual or not

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... I would like to see a URI for the package, and for each of the constituents, whether the package is virtual or not

15:48:13 <tzviya> q?

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Unknown tzviya: q?

15:48:17 <dauwhe> ... and I"m not sure what that is

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... and I'm not sure what that is

15:48:29 <dauwhe> ... how that translates into the requirements, I'm not sure

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... how that translates into the requirements, I'm not sure

15:48:45 <dauwhe> brady_duga: the idea of this uri that's the same for server vs download, not sure how that works

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Unknown brady_duga: the idea of this uri that's the same for server vs download, not sure how that works

15:48:56 <dauwhe> ... are you envisioning the uris are the same?

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... are you envisioning the uris are the same?

15:49:01 <tzviya> s/I"m/I'm
15:49:03 <dauwhe> ivan: the identification will be the same

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Ivan Herman: the identification will be the same

15:49:19 <dauwhe> brady_duga: in one case I have authority in my url, in one I don't

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Unknown brady_duga: in one case I have authority in my url, in one I don't

15:49:29 <dauwhe> ivan: [crickets] :)

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Ivan Herman: [crickets] :)

15:49:35 <dauwhe> ... not sure what is possible

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... not sure what is possible

15:50:06 <dauwhe> ... if one chapter refers to another, it should not be a problem with relative URIs

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... if one chapter refers to another, it should not be a problem with relative URIs

15:50:22 <dauwhe> ... if I use annotations, and I want them to work online and offline, not sure how to solve that

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... if I use annotations, and I want them to work online and offline, not sure how to solve that

15:50:29 <dauwhe> ... what URI do I use for annotation?

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... what URI do I use for annotation?

15:50:45 <dauwhe> brady_duga: your first example is not in requirements

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Unknown brady_duga: your first example is not in requirements

15:50:56 <dauwhe> ... on the 2nd case, I don't know how you solve that either

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... on the 2nd case, I don't know how you solve that either

15:51:13 <dauwhe> tzviya: let's make that a requirement, even though I tried not to make the impossible a requirement

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Unknown tzviya: let's make that a requirement, even though I tried not to make the impossible a requirement

15:51:33 <dauwhe> brady_duga: this is already handled by OCF, require everything to be relative URLs

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Unknown brady_duga: this is already handled by OCF, require everything to be relative URLs

15:52:01 <dauwhe> [discussion of exact language of new requirement]

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[discussion of exact language of new requirement]

15:52:14 <brady_duga> Sorry, my call dropped

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Unknown brady_duga: Sorry, my call dropped

15:52:23 <dauwhe> tzviya: links remain stable whether publication is online or offline

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Unknown tzviya: links remain stable whether publication is online or offline

15:52:33 <dauwhe> ... this seems more of an identifier requirement

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... this seems more of an identifier requirement

15:52:40 <dauwhe> ... but they are linked

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... but they are linked

15:52:43 <TimCole> q+

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Unknown TimCole: q+

15:52:50 <tzviya> ack Tim

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Unknown tzviya: ack Tim

15:52:56 <dauwhe> TimCole: it's part of the annotation problem

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Unknown TimCole: it's part of the annotation problem

15:53:08 <dauwhe> ... do we envision that a package can be served at multiple places

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... do we envision that a package can be served at multiple places

15:53:22 <dauwhe> ... get chapter 1 from server A, get chapter 2 from server B

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... get chapter 1 from server A, get chapter 2 from server B

15:53:32 <dauwhe> ... in which case the relative URIs get very complex

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... in which case the relative URIs get very complex

15:53:44 <dauwhe> tzviya: I did add this as functional requirement

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Unknown tzviya: I did add this as functional requirement

15:53:48 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Functional_Requirements#Functional_Requirements_for_Packaging_Spec

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Unknown tzviya: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Functional_Requirements#Functional_Requirements_for_Packaging_Spec

15:54:00 <dauwhe> ... it's good there's a heated discussion

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... it's good there's a heated discussion

15:54:05 <dauwhe> ... please take a look at the doc

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... please take a look at the doc

15:54:17 <dauwhe> ... the goal is to get a list together in the next few weeks

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... the goal is to get a list together in the next few weeks

15:54:40 <dauwhe> q+

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q+

15:54:44 <tzviya> ack da

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Unknown tzviya: ack da

15:55:39 <dauwhe> dauwhe: will post interesting links from public-web-perf mailing list on their review of packaging

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Unknown dauwhe: will post interesting links from public-web-perf mailing list on their review of packaging

15:55:51 <dauwhe> tzviya: anything for next week?

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Unknown tzviya: anything for next week?

15:56:13 <dauwhe> ... might be education or outreach or identifiers

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... might be education or outreach or identifiers

15:56:18 <dauwhe> ???: I think identifiers

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Unknown Heather: I think identifiers

15:56:23 <dauwhe> tzviya: we have four minutes

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Unknown tzviya: we have four minutes

15:56:27 <dauwhe> ... any last comments?

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... any last comments?

15:56:28 <ivan> s/???/Heather/
15:56:35 <dauwhe> [explosions]

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[explosions]

15:56:41 <dauwhe> tzviya: thanks everyone

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Unknown tzviya: thanks everyone

15:56:46 <dauwhe> [beeping]

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[beeping]

15:56:51 <HeatherF> *LOL*

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Unknown HeatherF: *LOL*

15:57:03 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes

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Unknown tmichel: rrsagent, draft minutes

15:57:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-dpub-minutes.html tmichel

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-dpub-minutes.html tmichel



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