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14:44:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-irc ←
14:44:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:44:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
14:44:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes ←
14:44:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:44:50 <trackbot> Date: 16 June 2014
14:44:57 <ivan> Chair: Markus
14:45:53 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda
Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda ←
14:46:28 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda for 2014-06-16: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jun/0031.html
Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda for 2014-06-16: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jun/0031.html ←
14:46:33 <ivan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jun/0031.html
14:55:30 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 9 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:37 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
14:56:14 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P17 is me
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P17 is me ←
14:56:14 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it ←
14:57:18 <Zakim> + +1.917.207.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.207.aaaa ←
14:57:25 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaaa is me
Dave Cramer: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:57:25 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe; got it ←
14:57:33 <Zakim> + +1.505.603.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.505.603.aabb ←
14:57:51 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.336.aacc ←
14:57:59 <azaroth42> zakim, aabb is azaroth42
Robert Sanderson: zakim, aabb is azaroth42 ←
14:57:59 <Zakim> +azaroth42; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth42; got it ←
14:58:33 <mgylling> zakim, code?
Markus Gylling: zakim, code? ←
14:58:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mgylling ←
14:58:43 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:58:53 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:58:55 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P22 is me
Markus Gylling: Zakim, ??P22 is me ←
14:58:55 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
14:59:33 <Zakim> +Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vlad ←
14:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.617.858.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.858.aadd ←
14:59:45 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:00:03 <murakami> zakim, ??P26 is me
Shinyu Murakami: zakim, ??P26 is me ←
15:00:03 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +murakami; got it ←
15:00:04 <pkra1> I'm 617-858.aadd
Peter Krautzberger: I'm 617-858.aadd ←
15:00:08 <Zakim> + +1.217.244.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.217.244.aaee ←
15:00:17 <ivan> zakim, aadd is pkra1
Ivan Herman: zakim, aadd is pkra1 ←
15:00:17 <Zakim> +pkra1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pkra1; got it ←
15:00:21 <pkra1> ah, I have a bad nick.
Peter Krautzberger: ah, I have a bad nick. ←
15:00:39 <Zakim> + +33.6.48.38.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.6.48.38.aaff ←
15:00:44 <ivan> zakim, aaee is TimCole
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaee is TimCole ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> +TimCole; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TimCole; got it ←
15:00:45 <Zakim> + +1.650.644.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.644.aagg ←
15:00:49 <Zakim> + +1.617.439.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.439.aahh ←
15:00:51 <ivan> zakim, aaff is Luc
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaff is Luc ←
15:00:52 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
15:00:55 <fjh> zakim, code?
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, code? ←
15:00:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh ←
15:01:18 <Zakim> + +1.212.364.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.212.364.aaii ←
15:01:25 <Zakim> +duga
Zakim IRC Bot: +duga ←
15:01:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:01:32 <philm> Zakim, aaii is me
Phil Madans: Zakim, aaii is me ←
15:01:32 <Zakim> +philm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +philm; got it ←
15:01:33 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
15:01:49 <ivan> zakim, aagg is clapierre2
Ivan Herman: zakim, aagg is clapierre2 ←
15:01:49 <Zakim> +clapierre2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +clapierre2; got it ←
15:01:51 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
15:02:05 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aajj
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.447.aajj ←
15:02:13 <ivan> zakim, aahh is dkaplan3
Ivan Herman: zakim, aahh is dkaplan3 ←
15:02:13 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dkaplan3; got it ←
15:02:15 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
15:02:29 <tmichel> zakim, ??P15 is me
Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P15 is me ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it ←
15:02:58 <Zakim> + +1.734.904.aakk
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.734.904.aakk ←
15:02:59 <ivan> zakim, aajj is benjaminsko
Ivan Herman: zakim, aajj is benjaminsko ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> +benjaminsko; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko; got it ←
15:03:39 <ivan> zakim, aacc is Julie
Ivan Herman: zakim, aacc is Julie ←
15:03:39 <Zakim> +Julie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Julie; got it ←
15:03:43 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aall
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.585.217.aall ←
15:03:44 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see gcapiel, dauwhe, azaroth42, Julie, mgylling, Ivan, Vlad, pkra1, murakami (muted), TimCole, Luc, clapierre2, dkaplan3, philm, duga, fjh, Stearns, benjaminsko,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gcapiel, dauwhe, azaroth42, Julie, mgylling, Ivan, Vlad, pkra1, murakami (muted), TimCole, Luc, clapierre2, dkaplan3, philm, duga, fjh, Stearns, benjaminsko, ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> ... tmichel, +1.734.904.aakk, +1.585.217.aall
Zakim IRC Bot: ... tmichel, +1.734.904.aakk, +1.585.217.aall ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see david_stroup, brady_duga, benjaminsko, TimCole, fjh, philm, Luc, clapierre2, murakami, Vlad, Julie, gcapiel, azaroth, tmichel, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, dkaplan3,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see david_stroup, brady_duga, benjaminsko, TimCole, fjh, philm, Luc, clapierre2, murakami, Vlad, Julie, gcapiel, azaroth, tmichel, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, dkaplan3, ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> ... dauwhe, pkra, ivan, liam|dentist, plinss, astearns, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dauwhe, pkra, ivan, liam|dentist, plinss, astearns, trackbot ←
15:04:04 <ivan> zakim, aall is david_stroup
Ivan Herman: zakim, aall is david_stroup ←
15:04:04 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +david_stroup; got it ←
15:04:34 <ivan> zakim, aakk is Bill_Kasdorf
Ivan Herman: zakim, aakk is Bill_Kasdorf ←
15:04:34 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf; got it ←
15:04:54 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?
Thierry Michel: zakim, who is here ? ←
15:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see gcapiel, dauwhe, azaroth42, Julie, mgylling, Ivan, Vlad, pkra1, murakami (muted), TimCole, Luc, clapierre2, dkaplan3, philm, duga, fjh, Stearns, benjaminsko,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gcapiel, dauwhe, azaroth42, Julie, mgylling, Ivan, Vlad, pkra1, murakami (muted), TimCole, Luc, clapierre2, dkaplan3, philm, duga, fjh, Stearns, benjaminsko, ←
15:04:57 <Zakim> ... tmichel, Bill_Kasdorf, david_stroup
Zakim IRC Bot: ... tmichel, Bill_Kasdorf, david_stroup ←
15:04:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, david_stroup, brady_duga, benjaminsko, TimCole, fjh, philm, Luc, clapierre2, murakami, Vlad, Julie, gcapiel, azaroth, tmichel, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, david_stroup, brady_duga, benjaminsko, TimCole, fjh, philm, Luc, clapierre2, murakami, Vlad, Julie, gcapiel, azaroth, tmichel, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, ←
15:04:57 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, dauwhe, pkra, ivan, liam|dentist, plinss, astearns, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dkaplan3, dauwhe, pkra, ivan, liam|dentist, plinss, astearns, trackbot ←
15:04:57 <Zakim> + +1.201.783.aamm
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.201.783.aamm ←
15:05:11 <ivan> scribenick: benjaminsko
(Scribe set to Ben Ko)
15:05:26 <ivan> zakim, aamm is pbelfanti
Ivan Herman: zakim, aamm is pbelfanti ←
15:05:26 <Zakim> +pbelfanti; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pbelfanti; got it ←
15:06:13 <benjaminsko> mgylling: minutes approved
Markus Gylling: minutes approved ←
15:07:18 <benjaminsko> mgylling: Main Topic: update on latinReq draft status from dave, Proposed changes to task force names,
Markus Gylling: Main Topic: update on latinReq draft status from dave, Proposed changes to task force names, ←
15:07:41 <benjaminsko> ... Peter to cover scope, what's in and out of scope for our work here
... Peter to cover scope, what's in and out of scope for our work here ←
15:07:42 <pkra> thanks.
Peter Krautzberger: thanks. ←
15:08:33 <benjaminsko> clapierre2: returning employee at benatech. interested in accessibility and metadata for epublishing.
Scribe problem: the name 'clapierre2' does not match any of the 73 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Dawson Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown clapierre2: returning employee at benatech. interested in accessibility and metadata for epublishing. ←
15:08:57 <azaroth> gcapiel: Best of luck in your new position! You'll be very much missed
Gerardo Capiel: Best of luck in your new position! You'll be very much missed [ Scribe Assist by Robert Sanderson ] ←
15:09:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> you will be missed, Gerardo!
Bill Kasdorf: you will be missed, Gerardo! ←
15:10:30 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: MAIN TOPIC: want to first talk about what's going in CSS working group that dpub is interested in
Dave Cramer: MAIN TOPIC: want to first talk about what's going in CSS working group that dpub is interested in ←
15:11:00 <dauwhe> http://dauwhe.tumblr.com/
Dave Cramer: http://dauwhe.tumblr.com/ ←
15:11:07 <gcapiel> Thanks! It's been an amazing experience collaborating with you all.
Gerardo Capiel: Thanks! It's been an amazing experience collaborating with you all. ←
15:11:29 <benjaminsko> ..earlier identified two priority areas-drop cap and footnote. esp with drop caps, there has been intense action in CSS working group. Drop caps on web and in ebooks are broken. i created a tumblr showing how broken they are
..earlier identified two priority areas-drop cap and footnote. esp with drop caps, there has been intense action in CSS working group. Drop caps on web and in ebooks are broken. i created a tumblr showing how broken they are ←
15:12:27 <benjaminsko> ...cant be relied on to maintain as font size changes. this is an area that the web should be able to do these correctly. it turns out there was a proposal in the CSS line layout module in 2002. (have theory that everything already exists in an abandoned CSS draft)
...cant be relied on to maintain as font size changes. this is an area that the web should be able to do these correctly. it turns out there was a proposal in the CSS line layout module in 2002. (have theory that everything already exists in an abandoned CSS draft) ←
15:13:38 <benjaminsko> ...there was a misunderstanding in their model and examples. brought this up in a CSS conf call. some expressed interest in working on this--how text sits in boxes, inline processing...added as a co-editor to the spec specifically to work on drop caps
...there was a misunderstanding in their model and examples. brought this up in a CSS conf call. some expressed interest in working on this--how text sits in boxes, inline processing...added as a co-editor to the spec specifically to work on drop caps ←
15:14:37 <benjaminsko> ...added to agenda for face to face meeting in Korea. gave presentation, which led to a really good discussion that lasted close to 90 minutes that everyone in room was interested in (including google, mozilla). this is something that would be relatively easy to implement
...added to agenda for face to face meeting in Korea. gave presentation, which led to a really good discussion that lasted close to 90 minutes that everyone in room was interested in (including google, mozilla). this is something that would be relatively easy to implement ←
15:14:44 <dauwhe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0108.html
Dave Cramer: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0108.html ←
15:15:04 <dauwhe> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/#DropInitial
Dave Cramer: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/#DropInitial ←
15:15:31 <benjaminsko> ... based on results of that discussion, dave wrote up a new proposal for CSS dropcaps, which is now in an updated editor's draft. much simpler than what was there before, but is more powerful than what is in indesign (which adobe team found amusing)
... based on results of that discussion, dave wrote up a new proposal for CSS dropcaps, which is now in an updated editor's draft. much simpler than what was there before, but is more powerful than what is in indesign (which adobe team found amusing) ←
15:16:29 <benjaminsko> ...at this point we have a skeleton of a workable proposal. lot of work to be done esp in internalization. how does this work for arabic, japanese, etc. when flying back from korea, couldnt find any examples, so perhaps not an issue in all languages..
...at this point we have a skeleton of a workable proposal. lot of work to be done esp in internalization. how does this work for arabic, japanese, etc. when flying back from korea, couldnt find any examples, so perhaps not an issue in all languages.. ←
15:17:19 <benjaminsko> ...optimistic that someone is going to want to implement this so that it will trickle down to the epub reading systems that are based on web rendering engines
...optimistic that someone is going to want to implement this so that it will trickle down to the epub reading systems that are based on web rendering engines ←
15:17:25 <benjaminsko> ...i think we're in a good place with this one
...i think we're in a good place with this one ←
15:17:40 <benjaminsko> mgylling: Questions?
Markus Gylling: Questions? ←
15:17:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
15:18:31 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: this is a good example of how things work with CSS. when we have a clearly identified problem, it becomes a matter of doing the research and writing on the spec. advocacy and diplomatic work that this is important and will solve problems for lots of web users
Dave Cramer: this is a good example of how things work with CSS. when we have a clearly identified problem, it becomes a matter of doing the research and writing on the spec. advocacy and diplomatic work that this is important and will solve problems for lots of web users ←
15:18:36 <astearns> identifying a minimal first step towards a full solution is also extremely helpful
Alan Stearns: identifying a minimal first step towards a full solution is also extremely helpful ←
15:19:11 <mgylling> http://dauwhe.github.io/dropcaps/Overview.html, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/#DropInitial
Markus Gylling: http://dauwhe.github.io/dropcaps/Overview.html, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/#DropInitial ←
15:19:15 <benjaminsko> mgylling: googling, found linelayout module and inline layout that seemed to have the same section about dropcaps...
Markus Gylling: googling, found linelayout module and inline layout that seemed to have the same section about dropcaps... ←
15:19:45 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: one was where i was sketching things out before i entered it in the editors' draft
Dave Cramer: one was where i was sketching things out before i entered it in the editors' draft ←
15:20:03 <benjaminsko> ...the latter link is the correct one
...the latter link is the correct one ←
15:20:08 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
15:20:19 <benjaminsko> Bill_Kasdorf: bravo to dave, wonderful work, thanks so much
Bill Kasdorf: bravo to dave, wonderful work, thanks so much ←
15:20:42 <pkra> q+
Peter Krautzberger: q+ ←
15:20:50 <benjaminsko> ...can drop cap issue be resolved without being tied up w/resolution of a bunch of other CSS issues? is there a timeline?
...can drop cap issue be resolved without being tied up w/resolution of a bunch of other CSS issues? is there a timeline? ←
15:21:15 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: what matters is implementation, getting people interested in implementing
Dave Cramer: what matters is implementation, getting people interested in implementing ←
15:21:37 <benjaminsko> ...there are people with the ability to drive implementation who are interested in this. i don
...there are people with the ability to drive implementation who are interested in this. i don ←
15:21:55 <benjaminsko> ... i think this is something that will move forward
... i think this is something that will move forward ←
15:22:51 <benjaminsko> ...will it be split out or remain part of line layout? for now it will be left as part of line layout. i dont see a problem with it not being split out.
...will it be split out or remain part of line layout? for now it will be left as part of line layout. i dont see a problem with it not being split out. ←
15:23:04 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:23:10 <benjaminsko> ..i don't see there being an implementation issue with regards to rest of the line layout spec
..i don't see there being an implementation issue with regards to rest of the line layout spec ←
15:23:10 <mgylling> ack pkra
Markus Gylling: ack pkra ←
15:23:46 <benjaminsko> pkra: any chance of ...??
Peter Krautzberger: any chance of ...polyfill ←
15:23:52 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: someone is working on that now
Dave Cramer: someone is working on that now ←
15:23:54 <astearns> s/??/polyfill/
15:24:13 <astearns> I have a person on my team at Adobe investigating a polyfill - no promises, though
Alan Stearns: I have a person on my team at Adobe investigating a polyfill - no promises, though ←
15:24:16 <benjaminsko> pkra: things like polyfill and mathml could help us enormously
Peter Krautzberger: things like polyfill and mathml could help us enormously ←
15:24:55 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:25:02 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: with some lobbying the line layout is now a high priority for the CSS working group
Dave Cramer: with some lobbying the line layout is now a high priority for the CSS working group ←
15:25:28 <benjaminsko> mgylling: the editor's draft is there, someone working on a polyfill, browser vendors are interested. is there anything that the IG can do to help you out?
Markus Gylling: the editor's draft is there, someone working on a polyfill, browser vendors are interested. is there anything that the IG can do to help you out? ←
15:25:29 <astearns> q+
Alan Stearns: q+ ←
15:25:33 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: no
Dave Cramer: no ←
15:26:05 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: the most valuable thing in the world is attention from interested people, any sort of attention or comments to www-style are really helpful
Dave Cramer: the most valuable thing in the world is attention from interested people, any sort of attention or comments to www-style are really helpful ←
15:26:22 <benjaminsko> ...if you happen to work for browser companies, lobbying is appreciated too
...if you happen to work for browser companies, lobbying is appreciated too ←
15:26:30 <benjaminsko> mgylling: test cases?
Markus Gylling: test cases? ←
15:26:56 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: haven't thought about that yet. we're in editor's draft stage, still trying to sort out what the features are. once that settles down we'll be thinking about test cases
Dave Cramer: haven't thought about that yet. we're in editor's draft stage, still trying to sort out what the features are. once that settles down we'll be thinking about test cases ←
15:26:56 <mgylling> ack astearns
Markus Gylling: ack astearns ←
15:27:02 <benjaminsko> mgylling: alan?
Markus Gylling: alan? ←
15:27:28 <benjaminsko> astearns: in terms of helping out, if you use ibooks or has drop books contacts, lobbying there will help convince webkit to implement more quickly
Alan Stearns: in terms of helping out, if you use ibooks or has ibookss contacts, lobbying there will help convince webkit to implement more quickly ←
15:27:32 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: exactly
Dave Cramer: exactly ←
15:27:33 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:27:45 <benjaminsko> s/drop book/ibooks
15:28:39 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: other high priority was footnotes. status is murkier. antenna house and prince support footnotes with similar syntax. CSS module for paged content discusses footnotes, but there really hasn't been much support for those concepts in wider world
Dave Cramer: other high priority was footnotes. status is murkier. antenna house and prince support footnotes with similar syntax. CSS module for paged content discusses footnotes, but there really hasn't been much support for those concepts in wider world ←
15:29:30 <benjaminsko> ... they require a lot of magic to drive without identifying a fundamental mechanism...they dont feel a part of the open web platform as it exists today. and so, want to find the visual effects we want based on tools that are being created for modern CSS
... they require a lot of magic to drive without identifying a fundamental mechanism...they dont feel a part of the open web platform as it exists today. and so, want to find the visual effects we want based on tools that are being created for modern CSS ←
15:30:19 <pbelfanti> Apologies, I must drop for another meeting
Paul Belfanti: Apologies, I must drop for another meeting ←
15:30:31 <benjaminsko> ...esp the idea of regions. you can take some content and flow it into a region and you can style that region. was wondering if we can get a more robust definition of footnotes if we can base it on regions. was playing around with this, wrote up some sample syntax. discussed it ast the face to face meeting at Seoul.
...esp the idea of regions. you can take some content and flow it into a region and you can style that region. was wondering if we can get a more robust definition of footnotes if we can base it on regions. was playing around with this, wrote up some sample syntax. discussed it ast the face to face meeting at Seoul. ←
15:30:53 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
15:30:54 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
Zakim IRC Bot: -pbelfanti ←
15:30:55 <benjaminsko> ...using ideas from regions and various page template proposals, addresses what we want but more firmly grounded in CSS as it is evolving today
...using ideas from regions and various page template proposals, addresses what we want but more firmly grounded in CSS as it is evolving today ←
15:31:52 <benjaminsko> ....result of discussions. start a level 4 of the GCM spec. this will serve as an experimental draft to see if we can work out a good def. of footnotes based on regions and other template ideas. it hasn't been created yet. will be co-editor. daniel g? is also co-editor.
....result of discussions. start a level 4 of the GCM spec. this will serve as an experimental draft to see if we can work out a good def. of footnotes based on regions and other template ideas. it hasn't been created yet. will be co-editor. daniel g? is also co-editor. ←
15:32:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
15:32:32 <benjaminsko> ...will give us better definition for running headers and footers, greater flexibility and power. planning to start working on that soon.
...will give us better definition for running headers and footers, greater flexibility and power. planning to start working on that soon. ←
15:32:45 <benjaminsko> ...that's footnotes
...that's footnotes ←
15:32:47 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:32:51 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
15:33:19 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:33:21 <benjaminsko> Luc: agree w/dave about footnotes. kind of item we need to define more conceptually.
Luc Audrain: agree w/dave about footnotes. kind of item we need to define more conceptually. ←
15:34:25 <benjaminsko> ...in digital we can render it differently, need to define the item it via semantics vs rendering structure. footnote is complementary content. way it can be rendered can have different actions from print.
...in digital we can render it differently, need to define the item it via semantics vs rendering structure. footnote is complementary content. way it can be rendered can have different actions from print. ←
15:35:46 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: i would agree with that. a footnote is a particular visual rendition of a certain kind of semantic content. being able to do this with CSS because with media queries or print style sheet and allows you to treat print and digital differntly
Dave Cramer: i would agree with that. a footnote is a particular visual rendition of a certain kind of semantic content. being able to do this with CSS because with media queries or print style sheet and allows you to treat print and digital differntly ←
15:36:04 <benjaminsko> ... my goal is we want to have this display option as one of our choices, but it is not the onlt choice.
... my goal is we want to have this display option as one of our choices, but it is not the onlt choice. ←
15:36:05 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
15:36:34 <benjaminsko> Bill_Kasdorf: my comments are along the same line. could this also apply to marginal notes? key is to get rid of concept of "foot"
Bill Kasdorf: my comments are along the same line. could this also apply to marginal notes? key is to get rid of concept of "foot" ←
15:36:42 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
15:36:50 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
15:37:23 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: nice thing with footnotes as regions is you get sidenotes for free
Dave Cramer: nice thing with footnotes as regions is you get sidenotes for free ←
15:37:43 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
15:37:51 <benjaminsko> you can have multiple footnote areas, you get sidenotes, in what seems to be a natural way
you can have multiple footnote areas, you get sidenotes, in what seems to be a natural way ←
15:37:59 <azaroth> q-
Robert Sanderson: q- ←
15:38:41 <benjaminsko> ivan: footnotes are close to annotation. need way to avoid too many parallel discussions. we already have use cases defined for annotations. may be useful to review annotation with a footnote glass on yr nose (?)
Ivan Herman: footnotes are close to annotation. need way to avoid too many parallel discussions. we already have use cases defined for annotations. may be useful to review annotation with a footnote glass on yr nose (?) ←
15:39:08 <benjaminsko> ...we are at point where in a few weeks the charter for the annotation working group will go to AC. work will begin in earnest
...we are at point where in a few weeks the charter for the annotation working group will go to AC. work will begin in earnest ←
15:39:16 <fjh> +1 to considering annotations; CSS also relevant so a bit to correlate
Frederick Hirsch: +1 to considering annotations; CSS also relevant so a bit to coordinate ←
15:39:16 <benjaminsko> ...try to bind things together for synergy
...try to bind things together for synergy ←
15:39:24 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
15:39:44 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: that's a good idea. i will look to see how this fits w/the proposed annotations.
Dave Cramer: that's a good idea. i will look to see how this fits w/the proposed annotations. ←
15:39:50 <mgylling> ack azaroth
Markus Gylling: ack azaroth ←
15:40:02 <benjaminsko> ivan: the two co-chairs are on the call right now
Ivan Herman: the two proposed co-chairs are on the call right now ←
15:40:15 <benjaminsko> ??: happy to answer questions
Robert Sanderson: happy to answer questions ←
15:40:24 <ivan> s/two/two proposed/
15:40:47 <fjh> s/correlate/coordinate/
15:41:01 <azaroth> s/??/azaroth/
15:41:16 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:41:34 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
15:41:48 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: what's come up today - can this concept be useful annotations - is useful.
Dave Cramer: what's come up today - can this concept be useful annotations - is useful. ←
15:42:25 <benjaminsko> ivan: is it still useful to think about footnote-specific use cases? publishers know the footnote use cases the best. is there still a possibility to chase for more of those
Ivan Herman: is it still useful to think about footnote-specific use cases? publishers know the footnote use cases the best. is there still a possibility to chase for more of those ←
15:43:03 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: that leads to something that is happening with footnotes and dropcaps, there is tension between creating a feature that can address every possible use case and a feature that is relatively easy to specify and implement
Dave Cramer: that leads to something that is happening with footnotes and dropcaps, there is tension between creating a feature that can address every possible use case and a feature that is relatively easy to specify and implement ←
15:44:02 <benjaminsko> ..being getting lots of examples of dropcaps from books that are hundreds of years old, something that is woven in to the entire page. i love seeing them, i don't think we can implement a spec that can support everything that was done in the last 800 years [did i get his wright -ben]
..being getting lots of examples of dropcaps from books that are hundreds of years old, something that is woven in to the entire page. i love seeing them, i don't think we can implement a spec that can support everything that was done in the last 800 years [did i get his right -ben] ←
15:44:09 <benjaminsko> s/wright/right
15:44:26 <benjaminsko> ...we aim for 80-90% not 99.9%
...we aim for 80-90% not 99.9% ←
15:44:30 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:44:43 <astearns> perhaps even 60%, as long as what we expose can be extended to another 20-40%
Alan Stearns: perhaps even 60%, as long as what we expose can be extended to another 20-40% ←
15:44:52 <benjaminsko> mgylling: with 15 minutes to go what else do you have for us?
Markus Gylling: with 15 minutes to go what else do you have for us? ←
15:45:42 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: trying to find out what our are priorities as far as layout goes, where can we put effort and get the greatest payback. would love to hear are there 1 or 2 other areas that we should focus on to try and get something going
Dave Cramer: trying to find out what our are priorities as far as layout goes, where can we put effort and get the greatest payback. would love to hear are there 1 or 2 other areas that we should focus on to try and get something going ←
15:45:48 <benjaminsko> mgylling: anyone?
Markus Gylling: anyone? ←
15:46:40 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: at the idpf convention ran into will mannis(sp?), had problems with inline module of CSS. he was doing some work to get PDFs into ebook form and the baseline handling of CSS was preventing him from doing what he wanted
Dave Cramer: at the idpf convention ran into will mannis(sp?), had problems with inline module of CSS. he was doing some work to get PDFs into ebook form and the baseline handling of CSS was preventing him from doing what he wanted ←
15:47:41 <benjaminsko> mgylling: keep this question open for awhile. it's obviously an excellent strategy to identify the highest priority and go for them. question about the latin req document. how does that evolve now in relation to yr other activities?
Markus Gylling: keep this question open for awhile. it's obviously an excellent strategy to identify the highest priority and go for them. question about the latin req document. how does that evolve now in relation to yr other activities? ←
15:48:10 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: latin req doc has certainly taken a back seat to the work going on in CSS.
Dave Cramer: latin req doc has certainly taken a back seat to the work going on in CSS. ←
15:48:35 <benjaminsko> ...can move stuff back into latin req based on some examples and illustrations created for CSS working group
...can move stuff back into latin req based on some examples and illustrations created for CSS working group ←
15:48:36 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
15:49:24 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
15:49:27 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
15:49:32 <benjaminsko> ...if the group can identify priority areas in latin req, we can. looking at it as a whole is overwhelming. in practice, adding to it has been difficult since there are not a lot of other people working on it right now
...if the group can identify priority areas in latin req, we can. looking at it as a whole is overwhelming. in practice, adding to it has been difficult since there are not a lot of other people working on it right now ←
15:50:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 on running headers and footers
Bill Kasdorf: +1 on running headers and footers ←
15:50:21 <benjaminsko> Luc: re:priorities in latin req. after drop cap and footnotes, question of running headers and footers because when we use ??? we had difficult question of large books that are ??? couldn't be read..
Luc Audrain: re:priorities in latin req. after drop cap and footnotes, question of running headers and footers because when we use ??? we had difficult question of large books that are ??? couldn't be read.. ←
15:51:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
15:51:17 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
15:51:26 <benjaminsko> ...we re facing this problem...dictionaries, large volumes of very precise information.... would like this to be examined for the future [i wasn't able to capture the exact nature of the prob - ben]
...we re facing this problem...dictionaries, large volumes of very precise information.... would like this to be examined for the future [i wasn't able to capture the exact nature of the prob - ben] ←
15:51:53 <benjaminsko> Bill_Kasdorf: being able to maintain header and footer around long sections is very useful
Bill Kasdorf: being able to maintain header and footer around long sections is very useful ←
15:52:12 <Luc> without running headers and footers, large books cannot be made avalaible in EPUB
Luc Audrain: without running headers and footers, large books cannot be made avalaible in EPUB ←
15:52:16 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: it's a navigation aid in keeping yr bearings in a vast expanse. from phonebooks to indexes that have headers showing
Dave Cramer: it's a navigation aid in keeping yr bearings in a vast expanse. from phonebooks to indexes that have headers showing ←
15:52:47 <benjaminsko> ...highly evolved solutions that came up through print, the need for them has been shown, how do we meet that same need in a digital environment
...highly evolved solutions that came up through print, the need for them has been shown, how do we meet that same need in a digital environment ←
15:53:07 <benjaminsko> mgylling: running headers and footers might be addressed by the footnote work
Markus Gylling: running headers and footers might be addressed by the footnote work ←
15:53:30 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: we're talking about content that is being copied elsewhere in the document to serve as a visual marker
Dave Cramer: we're talking about content that is being copied elsewhere in the document to serve as a visual marker ←
15:54:02 <benjaminsko> ...it gets awkwards as the content of running heads gets more complex. or as you want to display that content in an unusual palce
...it gets awkwards as the content of running heads gets more complex. or as you want to display that content in an unusual palce ←
15:54:14 <benjaminsko> mgylling: is chapter 8 solid enough to be reference for CSS working group?
Markus Gylling: is chapter 8 solid enough to be reference for CSS working group? ←
15:54:19 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:54:26 <benjaminsko> dauwhe: not sure what state is in right now
Dave Cramer: not sure what state is in right now ←
15:54:45 <benjaminsko> mgylling: chapter 8 could be another focus area
Markus Gylling: chapter 8 could be another focus area ←
15:54:49 <ivan> zakim, code?
Ivan Herman: zakim, code? ←
15:54:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan ←
15:55:14 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:55:20 <benjaminsko> mgylling: ...return in 2 weeks to discuss this. some of the others may come from the STEM area. we deviate a bit from the agenda re:task force names to talk about STEM. Peter to discuss.
Markus Gylling: ...return in 2 weeks to discuss this. some of the others may come from the STEM area. we deviate a bit from the agenda re:task force names to talk about STEM. Peter to discuss. ←
15:56:34 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:56:45 <benjaminsko> pkra: my question what is scope of the interest group. progressive enhancements (responsive tables), user agent suggestions, and new standards (e.g., scientific notation)
Peter Krautzberger: my question what is scope of the interest group. progressive enhancements (responsive tables), user agent suggestions, and new standards (e.g., scientific notation) ←
15:57:12 <benjaminsko> ...maybe this is off the mark because i am new to this so looking for input
...maybe this is off the mark because i am new to this so looking for input ←
15:57:24 <benjaminsko> mgylling: so is your question is "are new standards out of scope?
Markus Gylling: so is your question is "are new standards out of scope? ←
15:57:27 <benjaminsko> pkra: yes
Peter Krautzberger: yes ←
15:58:24 <TimCole> q+
Timothy Cole: q+ ←
15:58:26 <benjaminsko> is it out of scope to pick new standards (e.g., chemml) as winners to move to w3c?
is it out of scope to pick new standards (e.g., chemml) as winners to move to w3c? ←
15:58:32 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:59:13 <benjaminsko> mgylling: to me the answer is not out of scope, charter of working group is to identify needs of the publishing community. we can have luxury during use case definition to not worry about difficulty of use case.
Markus Gylling: to me the answer is not out of scope, charter of working group is to identify needs of the publishing community. we can have luxury during use case definition to not worry about difficulty of use case. ←
15:59:49 <Zakim> -philm
Zakim IRC Bot: -philm ←
15:59:51 <benjaminsko> ...if the scientific pub community that cannot be met by existing specs of open web platform, then we should document that fallacy(?).
...if the scientific pub community that cannot be met by existing specs of open web platform, then we should document that fallacy(?). ←
16:00:27 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:00:27 <benjaminsko> ...do not hold back in terms of this stuff. we are not proposing solutions in this IG. we are only providing use cases and motivations for forthcoming solutions. ivan?
...do not hold back in terms of this stuff. we are not proposing solutions in this IG. we are only providing use cases and motivations for forthcoming solutions. ivan? ←
16:00:29 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:00:33 <benjaminsko> ivan: fully agree
Ivan Herman: fully agree ←
16:01:23 <benjaminsko> ...if we identeify as specific area--e.g., chemical markup--and we think ahead to see if this can be standardized, we not only name the standard but give an idea about the size the importance of the market, the main players as much as we can
...if we identeify as specific area--e.g., chemical markup--and we think ahead to see if this can be standardized, we not only name the standard but give an idea about the size the importance of the market, the main players as much as we can ←
16:02:13 <benjaminsko> ...fully agree with markus. one other thing i was wondering about--this came up in the past--some of STEM's problems (e.g., chemistry)--i've heard that components at W3C may be a good general solution.
...fully agree with markus. one other thing i was wondering about--this came up in the past--some of STEM's problems (e.g., chemistry)--i've heard that components at W3C may be a good general solution. ←
16:03:27 <benjaminsko> ...don't know if that is true or not. we should look at how the web components evolved....last question is--mathml is defined to be k12 but was not meant to be the tool for theoretical physicists.
...don't know if that is true or not. we should look at how the web components evolved....last question is--mathml is defined to be k12 but was not meant to be the tool for theoretical physicists. ←
16:03:44 <benjaminsko> ...isn't it also true that use cases may reveal holes in the existing standards
...isn't it also true that use cases may reveal holes in the existing standards ←
16:03:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:04:15 <gcapiel> +q
Gerardo Capiel: +q ←
16:04:28 <benjaminsko> pkra: i'd say it is the opposite (from implementation). problem is parts of the mathml specification there are no way to implement [?]
Peter Krautzberger: i'd say it is the opposite (from implementation). problem is parts of the mathml specification there are no way to implement [?] ←
16:04:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
Bill Kasdorf: q- ←
16:05:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> K-12 math wasn't introduced in MathML until MathML 3.0. It was originally for the mathematicians and scientists
Bill Kasdorf: K-12 math wasn't introduced in MathML until MathML 3.0. It was originally for the mathematicians and scientists ←
16:05:12 <Zakim> -david_stroup
Zakim IRC Bot: -david_stroup ←
16:05:59 <mgylling> ack TimCole
Markus Gylling: ack TimCole ←
16:06:18 <Julie> I have to sign off now-- thanks for the meeting!
Julie Morris: I have to sign off now-- thanks for the meeting! ←
16:06:30 <Zakim> -Julie
Zakim IRC Bot: -Julie ←
16:06:43 <mgylling> ack gcapiel
Markus Gylling: ack gcapiel ←
16:07:04 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:07:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
16:07:15 <benjaminsko> gcapiel: as to missing use cases, presentation matjml which is what is being used on the web, there are a lot of missing semantics to make it more usable from an accessiiblity standpoint
Gerardo Capiel: as to missing use cases, presentation matjml which is what is being used on the web, there are a lot of missing semantics to make it more usable from an accessiiblity standpoint ←
16:07:28 <benjaminsko> ...gap between prsentation mathml nd content mathml
...gap between prsentation mathml nd content mathml ←
16:07:59 <benjaminsko> mgylling: at next call start with STEM discussion sorry too short today
Markus Gylling: at next call start with STEM discussion sorry too short today ←
16:08:12 <benjaminsko> ..talk next monday
..talk next monday ←
16:08:17 <Zakim> -azaroth42
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth42 ←
16:08:18 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:08:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
16:08:19 <Zakim> -gcapiel
Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel ←
16:08:20 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:08:21 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
16:08:21 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:08:21 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:08:21 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:08:22 <Zakim> -pkra1
Zakim IRC Bot: -pkra1 ←
16:08:22 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:08:23 <Zakim> -TimCole
Zakim IRC Bot: -TimCole ←
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Zakim IRC Bot: -dkaplan3 ←
16:08:23 <Zakim> -Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vlad ←
16:08:24 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
16:08:25 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko ←
16:08:26 <Zakim> -clapierre2
Scribe problem: the name 'clapierre2' does not match any of the 73 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Dawson Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -clapierre2 ←
16:08:28 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
16:08:32 <dkaplan3> :Bclose
Deborah Kaplan: :Bclose ←
16:08:38 <Zakim> -murakami
Zakim IRC Bot: -murakami ←
16:13:39 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
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Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM ←
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Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:13:40 <Zakim> Attendees were gcapiel, +1.917.207.aaaa, dauwhe, +1.505.603.aabb, +1.646.336.aacc, azaroth42, Ivan, mgylling, Vlad, +1.617.858.aadd, murakami, +1.217.244.aaee, pkra1,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were gcapiel, +1.917.207.aaaa, dauwhe, +1.505.603.aabb, +1.646.336.aacc, azaroth42, Ivan, mgylling, Vlad, +1.617.858.aadd, murakami, +1.217.244.aaee, pkra1, ←
16:13:41 <Zakim> ... +33.6.48.38.aaff, TimCole, +1.650.644.aagg, +1.617.439.aahh, Luc, +1.212.364.aaii, duga, philm, fjh, clapierre2, Stearns, +1.917.447.aajj, dkaplan3, tmichel, +1.734.904.aakk,
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +33.6.48.38.aaff, TimCole, +1.650.644.aagg, +1.617.439.aahh, Luc, +1.212.364.aaii, duga, philm, fjh, clapierre2, Stearns, +1.917.447.aajj, dkaplan3, tmichel, +1.734.904.aakk, ←
16:13:41 <Zakim> ... benjaminsko, Julie, +1.585.217.aall, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.201.783.aamm, pbelfanti
Zakim IRC Bot: ... benjaminsko, Julie, +1.585.217.aall, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.201.783.aamm, pbelfanti ←
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