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15:07:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/06-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/06-dpub-irc ←
15:07:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:07:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
15:07:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 53 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 53 minutes ←
15:07:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:07:48 <trackbot> Date: 06 January 2014
15:09:29 <Pdanet> tnx Ivan, and, BTW, Hny 2014. I thought it was now, 5:00 PM is difficult for me today but Luc will be there
Pierre Danet: tnx Ivan, and, BTW, Hny 2014. I thought it was now, 5:00 PM is difficult for me today but Luc will be there ←
15:48:45 <ivan> Regrets: TomDN
15:49:21 <ivan> Scribe: Tzviya
(No events recorded for 39 minutes)
(Scribe set to Tzviya Siegman)
15:51:43 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:51:50 <Zakim> +Liza
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liza ←
15:55:22 <Zakim> + +33.1.41.23.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.1.41.23.aaaa ←
15:55:51 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:55:51 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:55:52 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:56:30 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:56:42 <Zakim> +dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe ←
15:56:45 <mgylling> zakim, ??P3 is mgylling
Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P3 is mgylling ←
15:56:45 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
15:56:57 <Zakim> +Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya ←
15:56:59 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is laudrain
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaaa is laudrain ←
15:56:59 <Zakim> +laudrain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +laudrain; got it ←
15:58:18 <Zakim> +azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth ←
15:58:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:58:42 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:58:44 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
15:58:54 <Zakim> + +1.347.633.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.347.633.aabb ←
15:59:10 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
Frederick Hirsch: Present+ Frederick_Hirsch ←
15:59:39 <Zakim> +benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko ←
15:59:58 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
15:59:58 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
16:00:00 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
16:00:12 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
16:00:26 <ivan> Guest: Julie Morris, BISG
16:00:34 <Zakim> +duga
Zakim IRC Bot: +duga ←
16:00:35 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
Markus Gylling: zakim, who is here? ←
16:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza, laudrain, Ivan, mgylling, dauwhe, Tzviya, azaroth, fjh, +1.347.633.aabb, benjaminsko, ??P24, Stearns, ??P26, duga
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza, laudrain, Ivan, mgylling, dauwhe, Tzviya, azaroth, fjh, +1.347.633.aabb, benjaminsko, ??P24, Stearns, ??P26, duga ←
16:00:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see benjaminsko, brady_duga, gcapiel, fjh, tzviya, azaroth, lizadaly, dauwhe, mgylling, philm, Zakim, RRSAgent, Suzanne, ivan, plinss, astearns, liam, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see benjaminsko, brady_duga, gcapiel, fjh, tzviya, azaroth, lizadaly, dauwhe, mgylling, philm, Zakim, RRSAgent, Suzanne, ivan, plinss, astearns, liam, trackbot ←
16:00:42 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P26 is me
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P26 is me ←
16:00:43 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it ←
16:01:03 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky
Zakim IRC Bot: +JeanKaplansky ←
16:02:06 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler
Zakim IRC Bot: +Laura_Fowler ←
16:02:32 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
16:02:47 <tmichel> zakim, ??P33 is me
Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P33 is me ←
16:02:47 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it ←
16:03:58 <tzviya> markus: minutes from previous meeting approved
Markus Gylling: minutes from previous meeting approved ←
16:04:24 <tzviya> minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Dec/0042.html
Scribe problem: the name 'minutes' does not match any of the 64 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jean Kaplansky Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Jun Fujisawa Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Peter Linss Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Bowles Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky Julie Morris Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Dec/0042.html ←
16:04:34 <tzviya> ivan: announcements
Ivan Herman: announcements ←
16:04:35 <Zakim> +Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vlad ←
16:04:56 <tzviya> ...madi solomon has decided to step down as co-chair because of changes at Pearson
...madi solomon has decided to step down as co-chair because of changes at Pearson ←
16:05:07 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
Zakim IRC Bot: +Suzanne_Taylor ←
16:05:08 <tzviya> ...Liza Daly is taking over as co-chair
...Liza Daly is taking over as co-chair ←
16:05:15 <tzviya> Liza: thank you
16:05:30 <tzviya> welcome Liza
welcome Liza ←
16:06:12 <lizadaly> Hooray!
16:06:28 <tzviya> Ivan: new members joining group, including Apple
Ivan Herman: new members joining group, including Apple ←
16:06:56 <tzviya> ...2 members from Apple David Singer (?), rep at W3C
...2 members from Apple David Singer AC rep at W3C ←
16:07:06 <tzviya> ...and Casey Dougherty
...and Casey Dougherty ←
16:07:34 <tzviya> ...wekcome Julie Morris as almost member of group from BISG
...wekcome Julie Morris as almost member of group from BISG ←
16:07:56 <Vlad> s/(?),/AC/
16:07:56 <mgylling> css shapes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Nov/0088.html
Markus Gylling: css shapes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Nov/0088.html ←
16:08:03 <tzviya> Julie: look forward to continued participatiion
Julie Morris: look forward to continued participatiion ←
16:08:21 <tzviya> Markus: CSS shaped review
Markus Gylling: CSS shapes review ←
16:08:46 <mgylling> s/shaped/shapes/
16:09:02 <lizadaly> Page selectors > shapes
Liza Daly: Page selectors > shapes ←
16:09:15 <tzviya> markus: review is due on Jan 7
Markus Gylling: review is due on Jan 7 ←
16:09:34 <tzviya> azaroth: did a quick read through and sent response to list
Robert Sanderson: did a quick read through and sent response to list ←
16:09:36 <mgylling> robs review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Dec/0049.html
Markus Gylling: robs review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Dec/0049.html ←
16:09:52 <tzviya> dave: did not get to over holidays
Dave Cramer: did not get to over holidays ←
16:10:07 <tzviya> dave will look at this afternoon
dave will look at this afternoon ←
16:10:45 <tzviya> ...and send note to list if there is anything specific to comment on. much is over dave's head (!)
...and send note to list if there is anything specific to comment on. much is over dave's head (!) ←
16:11:28 <tzviya> Alan: no need to collate Dave + Rob's comments
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: no need to collate Dave + Rob's comments ←
16:11:58 <tzviya> markus: is there any area in particular to pay attention to?
Markus Gylling: is there any area in particular to pay attention to? ←
16:12:22 <tzviya> alan: CSS WG looking to this groups experience with text ref to see if anything missed
Scribe problem: the name 'alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown alan: CSS WG looking to this groups experience with text wrap to see if anything missed ←
16:12:31 <astearns> s/ref/wrap/
16:12:45 <tzviya> action: dave to review CSS shapes and respond to CSS WG
ACTION: dave to review CSS shapes and respond to CSS WG ←
16:12:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Review css shapes and respond to css wg [on Dave Cramer - due 2014-01-13].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-15 - Review css shapes and respond to css wg [on Dave Cramer - due 2014-01-13]. ←
16:13:43 <tzviya> markus: next time we get request like this, plan further in advance
Markus Gylling: next time we get request like this, plan further in advance ←
16:14:12 <tzviya> dave: different requests will generate different levels of interest. Will vary by subject matter
Dave Cramer: different requests will generate different levels of interest. Will vary by subject matter ←
16:14:19 <tzviya> topic: latinreq
16:14:33 <Zakim> +madi
Zakim IRC Bot: +madi ←
16:14:41 <astearns> dauwhe: it may be more useful to read through the current editor's draft which includes some changes based on last call comments
Dave Cramer: it may be more useful to read through the current editor's draft which includes some changes based on last call comments [ Scribe Assist by Alan Stearns ] ←
16:14:44 <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/
Alan Stearns: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/ ←
16:14:53 <tzviya> markus: a few replies to dave's request for critical areas, but up to dave to take it from here
Markus Gylling: a few replies to dave's request for critical areas, but up to dave to take it from here ←
16:15:04 <tzviya> Dave: work has been progressing slowly on the document
Dave Cramer: work has been progressing slowly on the document ←
16:15:19 <tzviya> ...recent changes have been a section on drop caps and raised caps
...recent changes have been a section on drop caps and raised caps ←
16:15:35 <ivan> -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/ latest version of Dave's document
Ivan Herman: -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/ latest version of Dave's document ←
16:15:36 <tzviya> ...that made me think of questions some of us have in ebook production
...that made me think of questions some of us have in ebook production ←
16:15:57 <tzviya> ...drop caps are common in print, and many of try to use them in ebook
...drop caps are common in print, and many of try to use them in ebook ←
16:17:11 <tzviya> ...drop caps are tricky in CSS - top needs to align with character top. Raised cap needs to base align with other characters
...drop caps are tricky in CSS - top needs to align with character top. Raised cap needs to base align with other characters ←
16:17:32 <tzviya> ... In CSS, we encode number of lines and floats
... In CSS, we encode number of lines and floats ←
16:17:53 <tzviya> ...this seems to be an area where the calculation should be done for us
...this seems to be an area where the calculation should be done for us ←
16:18:12 <brady_duga> q+
Brady Duga: q+ ←
16:18:34 <tzviya> ...would be nice if rendering agent could do calculation of line heights and different fonts for us
...would be nice if rendering agent could do calculation of line heights and different fonts for us ←
16:18:38 <Zakim> +Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam ←
16:18:57 <mgylling> zakim, who is noisy?
Markus Gylling: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:18:57 <tzviya> Markus: isn't this a perfect example of the kind of thing that we'd like to see?
Markus Gylling: isn't this a perfect example of the kind of thing that we'd like to see? ←
16:18:58 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:19:05 <tzviya> Dave: yes
Dave Cramer: yes ←
16:19:08 <mgylling> ack brady_duga
Markus Gylling: ack brady_duga ←
16:19:09 <Zakim> mgylling, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
16:19:19 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Liza (2%), dauwhe (4%)
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Liza (2%), dauwhe (4%) ←
16:19:30 <tzviya> Brady: is this as specific as we want drop caps? or more specific units?
Brady Duga: is this as specific as we want drop caps? or more specific units? ←
16:19:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:20:04 <tzviya> Dave: been thinking about that. Shifting from print to digital includes shifting ways of measuring
Dave Cramer: been thinking about that. Shifting from print to digital includes shifting ways of measuring ←
16:20:36 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
16:21:15 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:21:15 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to address brady's question
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to address brady's question ←
16:21:23 <tzviya> ...part of me thinks that shorthand "make this a drop-cap" would be useful, but I'm not sure
...part of me thinks that shorthand "make this a drop-cap" would be useful, but I'm not sure ←
16:21:38 <Zakim> +azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth ←
16:21:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> yes I'm in LUX on Skype
Bill Kasdorf: yes I'm in LUX on Skype ←
16:21:54 <lizadaly> We already do have :first-letter in CSS already
Liza Daly: We already do have :first-letter in CSS already ←
16:21:55 <ivan> zakim, IPcaller is Bill_Kasdorf
Ivan Herman: zakim, IPcaller is Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:21:55 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf; got it ←
16:22:18 <tzviya> Liam: been through desire for drop caps with CSS WG in past. They say just multiply by 3. We need to be clear and precise
Liam Quin: been through desire for drop caps with CSS WG in past. They said just multiply by 3. We need to be clear and precise ←
16:22:28 <liam> s/say/said/
16:22:49 <tzviya> markus: what else going on in the document?
Markus Gylling: what else going on in the document? ←
16:23:11 <tzviya> dave: footnotes - collecting use cases of footnotes and where displayed
Dave Cramer: footnotes - collecting use cases of footnotes and where displayed ←
16:23:12 <ivan> -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#footnotes footnotes' section
Ivan Herman: -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#footnotes footnotes' section ←
16:23:40 <tzviya> ...getting a sense of properties that satisfy most users' needs
...getting a sense of properties that satisfy most users' needs ←
16:23:45 <tzviya> q+
q+ ←
16:24:34 <tzviya> dave: this seems like a good way to collect info about what should be happening
Dave Cramer: this seems like a good way to collect info about what should be happening ←
16:24:39 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:24:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:25:23 <tzviya> tzviya: how much of this needs to be preserved in ebooks? a lot of this is done to save paper
Tzviya Siegman: how much of this needs to be preserved in ebooks? a lot of this is done to save paper ←
16:25:35 <tzviya> dave: print is in scope for this
Dave Cramer: print is in scope for this ←
16:25:49 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
16:26:26 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:26:48 <tzviya> dave: is the popup something we all agree upon?
Dave Cramer: is the popup something we all agree upon? ←
16:27:28 <tzviya> tzviya: no, in academic works, there needs to be a method for citation, which would be more difficult with pop-ups
Tzviya Siegman: no, in academic works, there needs to be a method for citation, which would be more difficult with pop-ups ←
16:28:07 <tzviya> Bill: perhaps we should abandon the term "footnote" in favor of "note" so that we don't indicate location on page
Bill Kasdorf: perhaps we should abandon the term "footnote" in favor of "note" so that we don't indicate location on page ←
16:28:30 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
16:28:55 <tzviya> ...do we have a method for indicating priority? Many of the samples discussed on the list are very rare
...do we have a method for indicating priority? Many of the samples discussed on the list are very rare ←
16:29:34 <tzviya> Luc: as soon as we decide to display on 2-dimensional area (page), we have concerns about quality
Luc Audrain: as soon as we decide to display on 2-dimensional area (page), we have concerns about quality ←
16:30:43 <tzviya> ...most of the time in reflowable view, we have to cope with horizontal display. Must address quality of rendering. If we can address notes in semantic way - make them appear when needed
...most of the time in reflowable view, we have to cope with horizontal display. Must address quality of rendering. If we can address notes in semantic way - make them appear when needed ←
16:30:59 <tzviya> ...then we remove the problem of quality
...then we remove the problem of quality ←
16:31:35 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:31:35 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note pop-ups may also have accessibility difficulties
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note pop-ups may also have accessibility difficulties ←
16:31:38 <tzviya> dave: one of aims of this document is to describe rendering
Dave Cramer: one of aims of this document is to describe rendering ←
16:32:35 <tzviya> Liam: the nature of a footnote is that it is not distracting. Pop-ups could present a challenge to that. Could be a problem for accessibility as well. Keep in mind.
Liam Quin: the nature of a footnote is that it is not distracting. Pop-ups could present a challenge to that. Could be a problem for accessibility as well. Keep in mind. ←
16:33:29 <tzviya> Brady: I often miss note references in paper books. There is a risk of this happening with pop-ups as well.
Brady Duga: I often miss note references in paper books. There is a risk of this happening with pop-ups as well. ←
16:33:52 <tzviya> Luc: Semantics should enable a subtle reference
Luc Audrain: Semantics should enable a subtle reference ←
16:34:16 <azaroth> q+
Robert Sanderson: q+ ←
16:34:55 <tzviya> Dave: we've experimented with larger note refs and similar. There are many kinds of notes. Footnote may be used as shorthand for endnotes and many other kinds of notes
Dave Cramer: we've experimented with larger note refs and similar. There are many kinds of notes. Footnote may be used as shorthand for endnotes and many other kinds of notes ←
16:35:39 <tzviya> markus: in case of whether or not want pop-ups, there is connection to behavioral adaptive content as well as personalization
Markus Gylling: in case of whether or not want pop-ups, there is connection to behavioral adaptive content as well as personalization ←
16:35:56 <mgylling> ack azaroth
Markus Gylling: ack azaroth ←
16:36:07 <tzviya> ...it seems that dave wanted to identify low-hanging fruit
...it seems that dave wanted to identify low-hanging fruit ←
16:36:20 <tzviya> Rob: annotations also play into notes space
Scribe problem: the name 'Rob' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Rob: annotations also play into notes space ←
16:36:46 <tzviya> Markus: should we look at suggestions provided on list?
Markus Gylling: should we look at suggestions provided on list? ←
16:36:58 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0002.html luc's emails
Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Jan/0002.html luc's email ←
16:37:18 <tzviya> Dave: Luc addressed text justification and composition rules
Dave Cramer: Luc addressed text justification and composition rules ←
16:37:33 <ivan> s/emails/email/
16:37:34 <tzviya> ...we all know good layout when we see it, but what is it?
...we all know good layout when we see it, but what is it? ←
16:37:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:38:00 <JeanK> +1
Jean Kaplansky: +1 ←
16:39:04 <tzviya> ...do we or some other group need to more formally describe how justification should work?
...do we or some other group need to more formally describe how justification should work? ←
16:39:10 <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text/#text-justify-property is all we have today in CSS for justification language specifics
Alan Stearns: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text/#text-justify-property is all we have today in CSS for justification language specifics ←
16:39:25 <tzviya> Luc: there are algorithms that define how spacing should work
Luc Audrain: there are algorithms that define how spacing should work ←
16:40:30 <tzviya> ...for example, see InDesign paragraph composition algorithm that checks spacing and repetition is correct
...for example, see InDesign paragraph composition algorithm that checks spacing and repetition is correct ←
16:40:41 <tzviya> Ivan: please define composition engine
Ivan Herman: please define composition engine ←
16:40:58 <tzviya> Luc: computes horizontal spacing between words
Luc Audrain: computes horizontal spacing between words ←
16:41:17 <tzviya> ...good distribution between spaces and word
...good distribution between spaces and word ←
16:42:02 <tzviya> Luc: priority is hyphenation and vertical justification
Luc Audrain: priority is hyphenation and vertical justification ←
16:42:04 <JeanK> q+
Jean Kaplansky: q+ ←
16:42:10 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:42:18 <tzviya> Dave: yes, we all read ebooks in which an H1 is last item on page
Dave Cramer: yes, we all read ebooks in which an H1 is last item on page ←
16:42:48 <tzviya> Bill: hyphenation is rarely mentioned without justification (H&J)
Bill Kasdorf: hyphenation is rarely mentioned without justification (H&J) ←
16:43:07 <Zakim> - +1.347.633.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.347.633.aabb ←
16:43:22 <tzviya> ...the two work in tandem - adjust spacing when add a hyphen
...the two work in tandem - adjust spacing when add a hyphen ←
16:43:41 <astearns> hyphenation is also useful in ragged text, for reducing line length variation
Alan Stearns: hyphenation is also useful in ragged text, for reducing line length variation ←
16:43:49 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:43:49 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to mention recent CSS change to improve line-breaking
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to mention recent CSS change to improve line-breaking ←
16:43:52 <tzviya> brady: can't really do hyphenation with justification
Brady Duga: can't really do hyphenation with justification ←
16:44:16 <tzviya> Liam: having done some work on line breaking a few years, i have a proposal for CSS WG
Liam Quin: having done some work on line breaking a few years, i have a proposal for CSS WG ←
16:44:43 <tzviya> ...a property to indicate whether a line break is for interactive use or batch use
...a property to indicate whether a line break is for interactive use or batch use ←
16:45:11 <tzviya> ...when add a line of text, the content might move around
...when add a line of text, the content might move around ←
16:45:40 <mgylling> ack JeanK
Markus Gylling: ack JeanK ←
16:45:42 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
16:46:24 <tzviya> ...second property allows you to specify the name of line breaking algorithm and parsing parameters
...second property allows you to specify the name of line breaking algorithm and parsing parameters ←
16:46:40 <Zakim> -Laura_Fowler
Zakim IRC Bot: -Laura_Fowler ←
16:46:41 <tzviya> ...this will likely be accepted by CSS WG
...this will likely be accepted by CSS WG ←
16:46:54 <JeanK> http://webtypography.net/intro/
Jean Kaplansky: http://webtypography.net/intro/ ←
16:47:02 <tzviya> Jean: dave asked whether these are in use
Jean Kaplansky: dave asked whether these are in use ←
16:47:11 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler
Zakim IRC Bot: +Laura_Fowler ←
16:47:14 <JeanK> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/05/17/typographic-design-patterns-practices-case-study-2013/
Jean Kaplansky: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/05/17/typographic-design-patterns-practices-case-study-2013/ ←
16:47:34 <tzviya> ...Some have attempted to bring Robert Bringhurst's work to the web (see Jean's links above)
...Some have attempted to bring Robert Bringhurst's work to the web (see Jean's links above) ←
16:48:19 <tzviya> ...A lot of composition that is done in XML are doing transformations to older languages, TEX and others
...A lot of composition that is done in XML are doing transformations to older languages, TEX and others ←
16:48:50 <tzviya> ...people on web are paying attention to this. See typeface.js, kerning.js and others
...people on web are paying attention to this. See typeface.js, kerning.js and others ←
16:49:25 <tzviya> ...it would be worth our time to look at some of the resources available - will provide links
...it would be worth our time to look at some of the resources available - will provide links ←
16:49:31 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:49:53 <JeanK> http://kerningjs.com/
Jean Kaplansky: http://kerningjs.com/ ←
16:49:57 <tzviya> markus: before we move beyond hyphenation, what is your takeaway, Dave?
Markus Gylling: before we move beyond hyphenation, what is your takeaway, Dave? ←
16:50:02 <liam> s/TEK/TeK/
Liam Quin: s/TEK/TeK/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
16:50:15 <JeanK> http://letteringjs.com/
Jean Kaplansky: http://letteringjs.com/ ←
16:50:18 <brady_duga> s/TeK/TeX
Brady Duga: s/TeK/TeX (warning: replacement failed) ←
16:50:25 <tzviya> dave: there is a lot of energy and dissatisfaction. We need to continue to look at this
Dave Cramer: there is a lot of energy and dissatisfaction. We need to continue to look at this ←
16:50:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> not TeX?
Bill Kasdorf: not TeX? ←
16:50:27 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:50:38 <JeanK> http://typeface.neocracy.org/
Jean Kaplansky: http://typeface.neocracy.org/ ←
16:50:43 <tzviya> ivan: another area that bothers me as a reader
Ivan Herman: another area that bothers me as a reader ←
16:51:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:51:31 <tzviya> ...that is where hyphenation occurs - the line breaks are in the wrong location. The words break so that they look like other words
...that is where hyphenation occurs - the line breaks are in the wrong location. The words break so that they look like other words ←
16:51:31 <JeanK> http://fittextjs.com/
Jean Kaplansky: http://fittextjs.com/ ←
16:52:05 <tzviya> dave: the quality of the justification is based on the quality of the justification dictionary
Dave Cramer: the quality of the justification is based on the quality of the justification dictionary ←
16:52:10 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:52:10 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note difference between unattended and attended formatting
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note difference between unattended and attended formatting ←
16:52:59 <tzviya> liam: traditional print assumes that an editor will check the hyphenation
Liam Quin: traditional print assumes that an editor will check the hyphenation ←
16:53:01 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:53:04 <Zakim> -Laura_Fowler
Zakim IRC Bot: -Laura_Fowler ←
16:53:36 <tzviya> ...when there us dynamic hyphenation in place, must use good algorithm
...when there is dynamic hyphenation in place, mist ise good algorithm ←
16:53:51 <JeanK> http://artequalswork.com/posts/on-widows.php
Jean Kaplansky: http://artequalswork.com/posts/on-widows.php ←
16:54:07 <tzviya> s/us/is
16:54:22 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
16:54:29 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
16:54:41 <tzviya> Luc: the question of the language of the text is a main issue of accessibility
Luc Audrain: the question of the language of the text is a main issue of accessibility ←
16:55:02 <tzviya> Dave: another issue is image sizing and relationship of caption to image
Dave Cramer: another issue is image sizing and relationship of caption to image ←
16:55:30 <tzviya> ...some reading systems did not assume the need to see a whole image
...some reading systems did not assume the need to see a whole image ←
16:55:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:55:49 <tzviya> ...important use case is need to keep image and caption together
...important use case is need to keep image and caption together ←
16:56:25 <tzviya> dave: as increase font size, how much should image be allowed to decrease?
Dave Cramer: as increase font size, how much should image be allowed to decrease? ←
16:56:44 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:56:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
Bill Kasdorf: q- ←
16:57:01 <tzviya> markus: Koji mentioned in tokyo that Kobo wanted to exclude captions from font adjustments to help avoid this problem
Markus Gylling: Koji mentioned in tokyo that Kobo wanted to exclude captions from font adjustments to help avoid this problem ←
16:57:29 <tzviya> dave: will be a large number of issues around tables
Dave Cramer: will be a large number of issues around tables ←
16:58:20 <tzviya> ...ben has done a lot of research around tables. Even simple areas such simple areas as aligning on decimal is important
...ben has done a lot of research around tables. Even simple areas such simple areas as aligning on decimal is important ←
16:58:58 <tzviya> Markus: we spoke about involving alan and adobe in this document especially in area of advanced adaptive layout
Markus Gylling: we spoke about involving alan and adobe in this document especially in area of advanced adaptive layout ←
16:59:13 <tzviya> alan: not yet, will discuss with colleagues
Scribe problem: the name 'alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown alan: not yet, will discuss with colleagues ←
16:59:24 <tzviya> markus: what is timeline for first public draft?
Markus Gylling: what is timeline for first public draft? ←
16:59:34 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:59:52 <tzviya> dave: still seems early for that. Nothing on tables yet.. Not much on images yet
Dave Cramer: still seems early for that. Nothing on tables yet.. Not much on images yet ←
16:59:59 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
17:00:27 <tzviya> ivan: a published draft may include place holders
Ivan Herman: a published draft may include place holders ←
17:01:02 <tzviya> ...would the sections that have meat be improved by public review and comments?
...would the sections that have meat be improved by public review and comments? ←
17:01:23 <tzviya> dave: I'm fine with public comments as long as people know this is a work in progress
Dave Cramer: I'm fine with public comments as long as people know this is a work in progress ←
17:01:40 <tzviya> ...especially areas like drop caps
...especially areas like drop caps ←
17:01:55 <JeanK> +1
Jean Kaplansky: +1 ←
17:02:01 <tzviya> markus: 2 of task forces are closer to publicizing something - this group and annotations
Markus Gylling: 2 of task forces are closer to publicizing something - this group and annotations ←
17:02:07 <JeanK> q+
Jean Kaplansky: q+ ←
17:02:34 <tzviya> markus: what should we do next week?
Markus Gylling: what should we do next week? ←
17:02:46 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
17:03:00 <tzviya> ...we could continue with this, but I think we should go a full round?
...we could continue with this, but I think we should go a full round? ←
17:03:03 <astearns> (had to drop for another meeting)
Alan Stearns: (had to drop for another meeting) ←
17:03:10 <Zakim> -gcapiel
Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel ←
17:03:10 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
17:03:14 <mgylling> ack JeanK
Markus Gylling: ack JeanK ←
17:03:16 <tzviya> Jean: I think we should stick with this subject
Jean Kaplansky: I think we should stick with this subject ←
17:03:43 <tzviya> ...there's a whole group of people we haven't spoken to, font people, web typography
...there's a whole group of people we haven't spoken to, font people, web typography ←
17:04:45 <tzviya> dave: I would love to get contributions from the front lines of web typography
Dave Cramer: I would love to get contributions from the front lines of web typography ←
17:04:55 <Luc> Me too
Luc Audrain: Me too ←
17:05:10 <tzviya> ivan: that is why pushing out the doc as soon as possible is a good idea
Ivan Herman: that is why pushing out the doc as soon as possible is a good idea ←
17:06:41 <tzviya> jean: my concern about pushing this out too early is that it will look like an incomplete document and it will reflect badly
Jean Kaplansky: my concern about pushing this out too early is that it will look like an incomplete document and it will reflect badly ←
17:07:06 <tzviya> ivan: it will look like a working draft
Ivan Herman: it will look like a working draft ←
17:07:37 <tzviya> markus: we need to know who these organizations are. can you (Jean) help?
Markus Gylling: we need to know who these organizations are. can you (Jean) help? ←
17:08:07 <tzviya> jean: many of us will be at the ebook hack over weekend and digital book world next week
Jean Kaplansky: many of us will be at the ebook hack over weekend and digital book world next week ←
17:08:40 <tzviya> markus: should we do another task force or continue with this next week?
Markus Gylling: should we do another task force or continue with this next week? ←
17:08:41 <JeanK> Start here... : http://tdc.org/
Jean Kaplansky: Start here... : http://tdc.org/ ←
17:09:10 <tzviya> dave: It seems there is pent up demand to continue
Dave Cramer: It seems there is pent up demand to continue ←
17:09:28 <tzviya> markus: is DBW on Monday? Who will be able to attend?
Markus Gylling: is DBW on Monday? Who will be able to attend? ←
17:10:01 <tzviya> next meeting on Monday 13 Jan
next meeting on Monday 13 Jan ←
17:10:09 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
17:10:10 <Zakim> -Liza
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liza ←
17:10:10 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
Zakim IRC Bot: -Suzanne_Taylor ←
17:10:10 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
17:10:11 <Zakim> -madi
Zakim IRC Bot: -madi ←
17:10:11 <Zakim> -??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P24 ←
17:10:12 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko ←
17:10:12 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
17:10:12 <Zakim> -Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vlad ←
17:10:13 <Zakim> -laudrain
Zakim IRC Bot: -laudrain ←
17:10:13 <Zakim> -Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya ←
17:10:14 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
17:10:14 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:10:16 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
17:10:16 <Zakim> -Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liam ←
17:10:16 <Zakim> -JeanKaplansky
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeanKaplansky ←
17:10:32 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
17:10:38 <Zakim> -tmichel
Zakim IRC Bot: -tmichel ←
17:10:39 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended ←
17:10:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Liza, +33.1.41.23.aaaa, Ivan, dauwhe, mgylling, Tzviya, laudrain, azaroth, fjh, +1.347.633.aabb, benjaminsko, Stearns, duga, gcapiel, JeanKaplansky, Laura_Fowler,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Liza, +33.1.41.23.aaaa, Ivan, dauwhe, mgylling, Tzviya, laudrain, azaroth, fjh, +1.347.633.aabb, benjaminsko, Stearns, duga, gcapiel, JeanKaplansky, Laura_Fowler, ←
17:10:39 <Zakim> ... tmichel, Vlad, Suzanne_Taylor, madi, Liam, Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: ... tmichel, Vlad, Suzanne_Taylor, madi, Liam, Bill_Kasdorf ←
17:11:24 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:11:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/06-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/06-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
Formatted by CommonScribe