IRC log of eo on 2013-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:25:53 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eo
13:25:53 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-eo-irc
13:25:55 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:25:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eo
13:25:57 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3694
13:25:57 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:25:58 [trackbot]
Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
13:25:58 [trackbot]
Date: 20 December 2013
13:26:17 [Sharron]
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13:26:26 [Sharron]
trackbot, start meeting
13:26:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:26:30 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3694
13:26:30 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:26:31 [trackbot]
Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
13:26:31 [trackbot]
Date: 20 December 2013
13:26:40 [Sharron]
Chair: Shawn
13:26:46 [Sharron]
Scribe: Sharron
13:27:37 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started
13:27:44 [Zakim]
+Shawn
13:29:15 [Zakim]
+Bim
13:29:26 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:29:30 [Sharron]
Regrets: Wayne, Suzette, Andrew, AnnaBelle, Vicki
13:29:36 [yatil]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
13:29:36 [Zakim]
+yatil; got it
13:29:37 [dboudreau]
dboudreau has joined #eo
13:29:57 [yatil]
Zakim, mute me
13:29:57 [Zakim]
yatil should now be muted
13:29:59 [hbj]
hbj has joined #eo
13:30:07 [Zakim]
+Sharron
13:30:14 [yatil]
Zakim, unmute me
13:30:14 [Zakim]
yatil should no longer be muted
13:30:44 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:31:06 [dboudreau]
zakim, IPcaller is dboudreau
13:31:06 [Zakim]
+dboudreau; got it
13:31:12 [dboudreau]
morning all!
13:31:42 [yatil]
Zakim, mute me
13:31:42 [Zakim]
yatil should now be muted
13:31:49 [Zakim]
+hbj
13:32:56 [IanPouncey]
IanPouncey has joined #eo
13:33:08 [Bim]
zakim, mute me
13:33:08 [Zakim]
Bim should now be muted
13:34:01 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:34:15 [IanPouncey]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
13:34:15 [Zakim]
+IanPouncey; got it
13:34:32 [Zakim]
+Jan
13:34:45 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
13:34:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shawn, Bim (muted), yatil (muted), Sharron, dboudreau, hbj, IanPouncey, Jan
13:34:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see IanPouncey, hbj, dboudreau, Sharron, Zakim, RRSAgent, shawn, yatil, Bim, shadi, trackbot
13:34:58 [Zakim]
+Shadi
13:35:01 [Bim]
ack me
13:35:10 [shadi]
zakim, shadi has Eric
13:35:10 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
13:35:19 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:35:19 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:35:20 [Zakim]
-yatil
13:36:06 [Bim]
zakim, mute me
13:36:06 [Zakim]
Bim should now be muted
13:36:20 [Jan]
Jan has joined #eo
13:40:09 [Sharron]
Topic: Introductions
13:40:39 [Sharron]
Shawn: Let's all take a minute to introduce to new WAI staff member Eric
13:40:51 [Sharron]
All: Introductions
13:40:51 [shadi]
ack me
13:41:25 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
13:41:25 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
13:42:30 [Zakim]
-IanPouncey
13:42:51 [Sharron]
Eric: From Germany, coming to EO from the development side of the web, active in accessiiblity for 7 or 8 years. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2013OctDec/0053.html End of first week, happy to be here.
13:43:02 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:43:09 [IanPouncey]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
13:43:09 [Zakim]
+IanPouncey; got it
13:43:11 [dboudreau]
happy to have you join us, Yatil :)
13:43:22 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:43:22 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:43:24 [Sharron]
Shawn: Eric will work on WAI-ACT, the tutorials that were started by Bim. His background includes work on the BAD
13:43:31 [Sylvie]
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13:43:45 [Sharron]
Topic: Easy Checks
13:43:47 [dboudreau]
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13:45:11 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks
13:45:52 [Sharron]
Shawn: We must publish to day if we want it ot be part of the W3C announcements. Let's look at open issues from the top
13:46:21 [shawn]
If the image has complex information — such as charts or graphs — the image should have a short alt text identifying the image, and then the detailed description of the information should be provided elsewhere (for example, in a data table).
13:46:23 [Zakim]
+Sylvie_Duchateau
13:46:51 [Sylvie]
ZAKIM? MUTE ME
13:47:11 [dboudreau]
zakim, unmute me
13:47:11 [Zakim]
dboudreau should no longer be muted
13:47:15 [Sylvie]
zakim, mute me
13:47:15 [Zakim]
Sylvie_Duchateau should now be muted
13:47:49 [Bim]
ack me
13:48:25 [Sharron]
Bim: I am happy with "what the image is about" without going into unecessary detail.
13:48:32 [Bim]
ack me
13:48:39 [dboudreau]
+! to what he image is about
13:48:56 [Sharron]
Shawn: And remember when the images tutorial is available we will pont to it
13:48:58 [hbj]
ack me
13:49:01 [shawn]
If the image has complex information — such as charts or graphs — the image should have a short alt text identifying what the image is about, and then the detailed description of the information should be provided elsewhere (for example, in a data table).
13:50:03 [dboudreau]
Q+
13:50:09 [Sharron]
Helle: I have some concerns. It may be hard to translate. In Danish it would translate to be what it looks like. And we tell people to think aobut fundtion rather than appearance.
13:50:23 [shawn]
ack d
13:50:25 [IanPouncey]
Q+
13:51:07 [shawn]
denis first suggestion "the image should have a short alt text describing the nature or purpose of the image, and then the detailed..."
13:51:46 [shawn]
ack i
13:51:55 [Sharron]
Denis: We can't talk aobut functionality with complex images. It may be as simple as to provide the data in a table. What the image is about then summarizes the visual presentaion of the data and points to a table of data.
13:52:12 [Sharron]
Helle: Yes I understand better now, it should be OK
13:52:22 [shawn]
q+ ian
13:53:14 [Sharron]
Helle: OK if I understand the context as being about complex images, it is acceptable.
13:53:34 [Sylvie]
zakim, unmute me
13:53:34 [Zakim]
Sylvie_Duchateau should no longer be muted
13:53:40 [Sharron]
Sharron: So "what the image is about" is OK with you?
13:53:49 [Sharron]
Helle: Yes in this context it is.
13:54:31 [Sharron]
Sylvie: Well, I understand this concpet and seems clear enough to me. Another possibility would be "the topic of the image"
13:54:53 [Sharron]
..."what informatio is conveyed"
13:55:06 [Sharron]
Sharron: A summary of the image content
13:55:45 [hbj]
+q
13:55:47 [Sharron]
...although I like "what the image is about" it seems concise and tidy
13:55:51 [shawn]
ack h
13:56:37 [Sylvie]
what about : "summarising the information conveyed by the image".
13:56:49 [Sylvie]
or information contained in the image.
13:57:01 [Sharron]
Helle: To some of us it goes back to historical education of not expecting visual description but meaning or purpose of image
13:58:15 [Sharron]
...would it not be more accurate to use this only with complex images (graph and charts specifically)?
13:58:23 [Sharron]
Sharron: yes that is the purpose
13:58:55 [Bim]
+1
13:58:59 [Sharron]
Shawn: I propose that we use the current wording and leave it on the list for future consideration.
13:59:06 [Sharron]
Sharron: +1
13:59:08 [hbj]
+1
13:59:10 [IanPouncey]
+1
13:59:12 [dboudreau]
+1 to moving forward
13:59:16 [yatil]
+1
13:59:29 [hbj]
zakim, mute me
13:59:29 [Zakim]
hbj should now be muted
13:59:44 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
13:59:44 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
13:59:53 [Sharron]
Shawn: Next point was at the end of this discussion, to add for example in a data table or longdesc
14:00:17 [Zakim]
+Howard
14:00:20 [Sharron]
...I propose that we do not go there since that is a bugaboo, a complex issue that goes beyond Easy Checks
14:00:48 [Howard]
Howard has joined #eo
14:00:53 [Sharron]
Howard: Sure, that's fine
14:02:01 [dboudreau]
ack me
14:02:14 [Sharron]
Shawn: Next point was too move the expand / collapse
14:02:21 [Sharron]
Denis: ONly on this one?
14:02:41 [Sharron]
Shawn: Yes it would be somewhat inocnsistent but ...Howard?
14:03:18 [Sharron]
Howard: Here, the "Tips" seem very crucial information aobut what actually IS needed for appropriate alt text.
14:03:59 [Sharron]
...I don't see how a newbie would fully understand the proptocols without the "Tips" inofrmation
14:04:22 [Sharron]
Denis: Add you could easily miss that section when it is collapsed
14:04:28 [Bim]
ack me
14:04:45 [shawn]
ack bim
14:05:32 [Sharron]
Bim: The problem is with the term "Tips" on its own. Perhaps Tips and Examples
14:06:19 [Sharron]
Shawn: If we moved it, it will add just two paragraphs. And the content is probably good for all to see.
14:06:21 [Sylvie]
zakim, mute me
14:06:21 [Zakim]
Sylvie_Duchateau should now be muted
14:06:23 [dboudreau]
q+
14:06:38 [shawn]
ack d
14:06:43 [Bim]
zakim, mute me
14:06:43 [Zakim]
Bim should now be muted
14:07:40 [Sharron]
Denis: We have some h3 that are not collapsible. Why wouldn't we put the collapse on the Alt text Checks
14:09:00 [Sharron]
Shawn: Proposal is to move Expand-Collapse one level down and put the second paragraph in the collapsed section
14:09:16 [shawn]
+1
14:09:19 [dboudreau]
+1
14:09:19 [Bim]
+1
14:09:19 [Howard]
+1
14:09:19 [yatil]
+1
14:09:22 [Sharron]
Sharron:+1
14:09:25 [IanPouncey]
+1
14:09:36 [dboudreau]
dboudreau has left #eo
14:09:37 [hbj]
+1
14:09:43 [dboudreau]
dboudreau has joined #eo
14:10:30 [shawn]
ack Ian
14:10:57 [Sharron]
Ian: I have some additional comments about the alt text section. They are fairly straight forward
14:11:30 [Sharron]
...I like the way that alt is called out as an attribute and not a tag - well done!
14:12:02 [IanPouncey]
alt is an attribute of the image element, and other elements
14:12:19 [Howard]
zakim, mute me
14:12:19 [Zakim]
Howard should now be muted
14:12:21 [Sharron]
...should be alt is attribute of image element, not image tag
14:12:30 [IanPouncey]
"alt is an attribute of the image tag, and other tags" -> "alt is an attribute of the image element, and other elements"
14:12:32 [shawn]
EDIT ^^^
14:13:57 [Sharron]
Ian: Related to no alt text, even a decorative imge should have alt text if it is meant to be downloaded and used again
14:15:05 [shawn]
subtopic: Heading
14:15:06 [Sharron]
Shawn: That is a very particular instance and since we are not trying to be defintitve are you OK with something at that level of complexity be omitted until the tutorials
14:15:26 [Sharron]
Ian: There is currently no mention of HTML5 heading structures
14:16:12 [Sharron]
Shawn: Anything specific for the NEXT draft can go into the wiki and can llook for next round of updates and revisions
14:16:27 [shawn]
subtopic: text resize
14:17:24 [Sharron]
Ian: On text resize, why in the suggested how to check is to increase using the plus four times? When I tried it in the FF browser, it did not get to 200%
14:17:52 [Sharron]
Shawn: The keyboard controls move it either too much or not enough, so we made this call
14:18:09 [shawn]
subtopic: keyboard
14:18:34 [Sharron]
Ian: For keyboard access, in OSX tabbing through nonform elements is not enabled by default
14:18:38 [IanPouncey]
Best guide to enabling keyboard access: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200906/enabling_keyboard_navigation_in_mac_os_x_web_browsers/
14:19:07 [Sharron]
...it can be enabled using this guide. Can we link to that or summarize the method within the Easy Checks?
14:19:34 [yatil]
That’s really ridiculous on OS X.
14:19:35 [Sharron]
Shawn: Do you need to do this for all OSX browsers?
14:19:49 [Sharron]
Ian: Yes, otherwise you can tab only to form lelements, not to links.
14:20:24 [Sharron]
Sharron: Could we not just link to that Guide instead of trying to relpicate the instructions?
14:20:41 [Sharron]
Shawn: WAI is very careful about linking out
14:21:12 [Sharron]
Ian: Not sure if there is an equivalent on any of the W3C sites, but I can look.
14:21:19 [yatil]
It is a bit outdated, the System preferences changed a bit in the meantime.
14:21:40 [shadi]
ack me
14:22:06 [dboudreau]
the information for safari is still 100% relevant today
14:22:57 [Sharron]
Eric: We may need to consider how to address this because some may be outdated
14:23:51 [Sharron]
Shawn: It is important to address so I think we make a note that on OS testers must enable full keyboard access
14:24:10 [Sharron]
...but we do not link to anything for this draft
14:24:36 [dboudreau]
works for me
14:24:36 [Sharron]
Sharron: Yes that seems a good temporary solution
14:24:40 [Howard]
zakim, ack me
14:24:40 [Zakim]
unmuting Howard
14:24:42 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:24:42 [Sharron]
+1
14:25:23 [Sharron]
Shawn: Can you suggest wording?
14:25:28 [shawn]
EDIT: to "In a browser that supports keyboard navigation with the Tab key (for example, Firefox, IE, Chrome, and Safari; not Opera):" need to enable in some Mac browsers
14:25:56 [Sharron]
Ian: Use the broadest language, that edit looks good to me
14:25:57 [Howard]
zakim, ack me
14:25:57 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:25:59 [yatil]
Zakim, mute Shadi
14:25:59 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:26:05 [Howard]
zakim, mute me
14:26:05 [Zakim]
Howard should now be muted
14:26:45 [Sharron]
...Finally we talk about being able to access media player controls but fail to mention the inherant barriers in Flash woithout Javascripting
14:27:03 [Sharron]
...you will not be able to make Flash keyboard accessible in every browser
14:27:56 [Sharron]
...there are WCAG2 techniques that we could link to?
14:28:18 [Sharron]
Shawn: We are trying not to point to specifc details like that. Rather to the SC related to it
14:28:53 [shawn]
proposal: "Tab to all: Check that you can tab to all the elements, including links, form fields, buttons, and media player controls." add (A common problem is that you cannot tab to media player controls.)
14:29:21 [IanPouncey]
(Here is the technique: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/FLASH17.html)
14:29:23 [Sharron]
Shawn: is this an unecessary detail, important to add, what?
14:29:26 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Howard (muted), Shawn, Bim (muted), Sharron, dboudreau, hbj (muted), Jan, Shadi (muted), IanPouncey, Sylvie_Duchateau (muted)
14:29:28 [Zakim]
Shadi has Eric
14:29:57 [Bim]
ack me
14:29:59 [Sharron]
Denis: It adds value to mention itl, let people know what to look out for
14:30:20 [Sharron]
Sharron: +1 to Denis
14:31:21 [Howard]
zakim, unmute me
14:31:21 [Zakim]
Howard should no longer be muted
14:31:34 [Sharron]
Ian: The media section references this, so this is the place to put the alert for new testers.
14:31:42 [Sharron]
...it would also apply to games, etc
14:31:56 [Sharron]
Howard: I agree with Denis and Sharron it is worth mentioning
14:31:57 [dboudreau]
+1
14:31:59 [Howard]
+1
14:31:59 [hbj]
+1
14:32:05 [Jan]
+1
14:32:06 [IanPouncey]
+1
14:32:12 [yatil]
+1
14:32:28 [dboudreau]
actually, +1 if t doesn'T set us back with publishing today
14:32:39 [Sharron]
Bim: Only thinking that it is unusual in EasyChecks for a common problem to be called out like that.
14:32:40 [shawn]
EDIT: "Tab to all: Check that you can tab to all the elements, including links, form fields, buttons, and media player controls." add "(A common problem is that you cannot tab to media player controls.)"
14:33:17 [Sharron]
Shawn: For this section we call out common problems twice
14:33:17 [Bim]
zakim, mute me
14:33:17 [Zakim]
Bim should now be muted
14:33:27 [Sharron]
Shawn: Anything else Ian?
14:33:36 [Sharron]
Ian: No I am done causing trouble
14:34:11 [Sylvie]
q+
14:34:19 [shawn]
ack s
14:34:25 [Sylvie]
zakim, unmute me
14:34:25 [Zakim]
Sylvie_Duchateau should no longer be muted
14:36:29 [Sharron]
Sylvie: INstead of a common problem is, can we say a known issue and it is not always possible to tab through media player controls with every browser or AT
14:36:58 [Sharron]
Shawn: In the next, we have the verbiage about keyboard trap
14:37:44 [Sharron]
...mouse dependency, etc so we use the term common problem elsewhere
14:37:58 [Sharron]
Sylvie: Oh OK I thought you were looking for another word there
14:38:14 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Forms
14:38:15 [Sharron]
subtopic: forms
14:38:23 [Sylvie]
zakim, mute me
14:38:23 [Zakim]
Sylvie_Duchateau should now be muted
14:38:27 [Sharron]
Shawn: Two things:
14:38:34 [Sharron]
...a note in the Forms section
14:38:36 [shawn]
"Note: This section is more complex. If it's too complicated, consider skipping it for now and doing the next checks for multimedia and structure."
14:39:15 [Sharron]
Shawn: Everyone seemd OK with the wording
14:39:22 [Jan]
+1 than the others
14:39:26 [Sylvie]
yes
14:39:27 [Jan]
+1 on moving forms to the end
14:39:42 [Sharron]
...Sylvie suggested to add "more complex than the others"
14:39:48 [shawn]
EDIT: ""Note: This section is more complex. If it's too complicated, consider skipping it for now and doing the next checks for multimedia and structure."" -> ""Note: This section is more complex than the others. If it's too complicated, consider skipping it for now and doing the next checks for multimedia and structure."
14:40:04 [dboudreau]
+1 to "than the others"
14:41:14 [Sharron]
Shawn: What about the order of the EasyChecks? Ian? Eric? some new perspectives?
14:43:40 [yatil]
+1 for reordering later
14:43:57 [Howard]
+1 for reordering later
14:45:24 [hbj]
+1
14:45:50 [Howard]
isn't this our Xmas present to the world?
14:46:06 [Bim]
Publish!
14:46:08 [yatil]
:-D
14:46:13 [Sharron]
+1 for reordering later
14:47:00 [Sharron]
Shawn: To be clear that we are only changing from Editor's Draft to WG Draft and making an announcement
14:47:06 [dboudreau]
+1 to reordering later too
14:48:36 [Sharron]
Denis: The open issue of keyboard access to captions in YouTube is still not possible
14:49:07 [Sharron]
Shawn: Seems all are comfortable with Basic Structure (View)
14:50:38 [shadi]
ack me
14:50:53 [Sharron]
...so on to the next, we are looking in BAD Eric maybe you can help
14:51:25 [Sharron]
...we say to proactice checking structure with BAD
14:51:46 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
14:51:46 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
14:52:31 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#plainBAD
14:52:58 [shawn]
^^ add action for Eric :)
14:53:36 [dboudreau]
ack me
14:53:55 [yatil]
Zakim, mute Shadi
14:53:55 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:53:57 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#next
14:54:26 [Howard]
zakim, mute me
14:54:26 [Zakim]
Howard should now be muted
14:55:14 [Sharron]
Denis: Tables are much more difficult to test when you are not technical
14:55:51 [Sharron]
Shawn: Yes that is why we say "Hey this not a definitive check and here are some of the things that are NOT covered here"
14:56:06 [Sharron]
Ian: What wouold cover under redundant color coding
14:56:44 [Sharron]
Shawn: required fields indicated only by color..that is an old WCAG1 term, so maybe we should update the wording
14:57:04 [Sharron]
Ian: Checks for links could be as simple as making sure your link has content
14:57:07 [yatil]
Reliance on color coding?
14:57:46 [Sharron]
Shawn: We had one for a while and it got to be too many false positives and complications and qualifications that made us delete it from an EasyCheck
14:58:18 [yatil]
Zakim, unmute Shadi
14:58:18 [Zakim]
Shadi should no longer be muted
14:59:09 [yatil]
Zakim, mute Shadi
14:59:09 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:59:22 [shawn]
EDIT: "Redundant color coding" -> "Reliance on color coding"
14:59:23 [Howard]
+1 for move to "reliance"
15:00:06 [Sharron]
Shawn: Helle had suggested definition lists to be considered for next draft
15:00:06 [hbj]
ack me
15:01:27 [Sharron]
Helle: Came up when we found that when people pay attention only to WCAG2 AA they miss some AAA items that are actually easy to implement
15:03:08 [Bim]
+1
15:03:12 [yatil]
+1
15:03:12 [IanPouncey]
publish
15:03:15 [Jan]
+1
15:03:16 [Howard]
+1
15:03:17 [dboudreau]
+1 to publishing this next draft
15:03:19 [shawn]
publish & announce working group draft today?
15:03:25 [Sharron]
Shawn: Question is to publish today?
15:03:28 [hbj]
+1
15:03:33 [Sylvie]
+1
15:03:33 [shadi]
+1 to publish as a draft
15:03:35 [Sharron]
Sharron: +1
15:03:37 [Jan]
+1 publishing and announcing
15:04:47 [Sharron]
Shawn: Thanks so much for your contributions. After the call, I will put the changes in the wiki, make the updates to the Draft, publish as Working Group Draft....and announce!!
15:05:27 [Sharron]
...we are redoing all of the illustrations with the guidance we have gotten from the general specification development
15:06:12 [Sharron]
Topic: Evaluation Tools DataBase rejig
15:06:13 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Evaluation_tools
15:06:19 [Bim]
ack me
15:07:03 [Sharron]
Bim: After the input and discussion about users we had a few weeks ago, I rewrote the stories and what I would really like are your views on what might be missing
15:07:56 [Sharron]
...look for redundancies, are any of the Use Cases exact duplicates? any other suggestions are welcome but especially have we gotten our most likely user stories captured?
15:08:16 [hbj]
zakim, mute me
15:08:16 [Zakim]
hbj should now be muted
15:08:22 [shawn]
old db http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/Overview.html
15:08:25 [Sharron]
Shawn: What this is for is when the Evaluation Tools DB is updated, we want to provide context for who will use it
15:09:23 [Sharron]
...how will they use it and since this is just internal to help us as we develop the DB just make sure we have the right scenarios to guide the development of the tools database to amke sure that we are meeting all needs
15:10:08 [shawn]
q+ to ask [after other specific comments] if want/need to prioritize
15:11:46 [Zakim]
-IanPouncey
15:11:53 [Sharron]
Shawn: Ian thanks for coming and before you go, we want to meet for EO at CSUN so keep that in mind as you schedule
15:11:59 [Howard]
zakim, ack me
15:11:59 [Zakim]
unmuting Howard
15:12:01 [Zakim]
I see shawn on the speaker queue
15:12:23 [Sharron]
Howard: I have a question - this is an internal list? we won't publish the database?
15:12:58 [Sharron]
Shawn: No the database itself will be public but the user stories that we are relying on to guide the development of the DB is internal only
15:13:18 [Sharron]
Howard: Yes I can see that this could be a great tool when updated.
15:13:24 [Howard]
zakim, mute me
15:13:24 [Zakim]
Howard should now be muted
15:13:29 [Sharron]
Shawn: So looking at this list, is it complete?
15:14:04 [shawn]
ack me
15:14:04 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to ask [after other specific comments] if want/need to prioritize
15:14:26 [shadi]
q+
15:15:08 [Sharron]
Shawn: Question I had was what is the grouping or prioritization of this many users? Should we group them? or are you happy with there being 12 + equal needs groups?
15:15:12 [shawn]
ack sh
15:15:19 [shawn]
ack shadi
15:15:30 [Sharron]
Bim: Yes it would be useful to have a prioritized list
15:16:34 [Sharron]
Shadi: Yes seems like the next step is prioritization. But if we tke a bit more time, we may come up with more examples of users.
15:16:39 [hbj]
ack me
15:17:29 [Sharron]
...make sure all of those scenarios are covered. Some will overlap in terms of functionality
15:18:01 [Sharron]
...we will find some of that as well but I just want to make sure that before we begin to prioritize that we have all bases covered
15:18:22 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:18:22 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:18:26 [dboudreau]
q+
15:18:27 [Sharron]
...now the you have nothing to do over holiday break, give it some thought
15:18:44 [shawn]
ack d
15:18:55 [shawn]
ack dboudreau
15:19:51 [hbj]
zakim, mute me
15:19:51 [Zakim]
hbj should now be muted
15:21:01 [Sharron]
Denis: There are monitoring tools but what about developers working alone vs QA people working alone. if we started by categorizing in terms of roles we could reassign the different elements we have within those categories
15:21:10 [shawn]
previous version based on roles http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/index.php?title=Evaluation_tools&oldid=7347
15:21:13 [shadi]
q+
15:21:18 [dboudreau]
@shawn oh, ok
15:21:30 [Sharron]
Shawn: Bim's different approach based on roles began to be hair-splitting
15:22:04 [Sharron]
Bim: Regardless of the role they are in, we focused instead on what they are trying to do
15:22:16 [shadi]
ack me
15:22:41 [Sharron]
Shadi: there is a role in the scenario and there is a tool description or mention as well
15:23:07 [hbj]
+q
15:23:09 [Sharron]
...seems like a scenario might be a better approach than either focussing on the specific tool or the specific role.
15:23:19 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:23:19 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:23:34 [Sharron]
...a focus instead on the task seemed to us the most useful approach
15:24:18 [Sharron]
Bim: We tried to be a bit specific to give the description some life but the auto tools check is something that could be used by any number of the individuals in the scenarios list
15:24:52 [shadi]
ack me
15:24:56 [hbj]
ack me
15:25:06 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:25:06 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:25:32 [shadi]
ack me
15:25:44 [Sharron]
Helle: Just wondering if this would also cover end users, if I am experincing barriers and want to validate that there is a conformance issue as well
15:26:21 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:26:21 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:27:23 [Sharron]
Bim: Is this something that people might spend time on in the next couple of weeks? And adding comments?
15:27:48 [Sharron]
Sharron: I can
15:28:05 [shadi]
ack me
15:28:28 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:28:28 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:28:45 [Bim]
ack me
15:28:52 [Bim]
zakim, mute me
15:28:52 [Zakim]
Bim should now be muted
15:29:36 [Howard]
zakim, unmute me
15:29:36 [Zakim]
Howard should no longer be muted
15:29:36 [Bim]
ack me
15:29:52 [Zakim]
-Jan
15:29:54 [Sharron]
Shawn: Reviews coming up, please look at ATAG, WCAG-EM review. Have great holidays and will see you in 2014.
15:29:54 [Jan]
Jan has left #eo
15:29:54 [yatil]
Happy Holidays! :-D
15:29:54 [Howard]
bye
15:29:56 [Zakim]
-Bim
15:29:57 [Zakim]
-Howard
15:30:00 [Sylvie]
happy holidays bye
15:30:03 [Zakim]
-Shadi
15:30:05 [Zakim]
-dboudreau
15:30:07 [Zakim]
-Sylvie_Duchateau
15:30:13 [Zakim]
-hbj
15:33:28 [Zakim]
-Sharron
15:33:29 [Zakim]
-Shawn
15:33:29 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
15:33:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shawn, Bim, yatil, Sharron, dboudreau, hbj, IanPouncey, Jan, Eric, Sylvie_Duchateau, Howard
15:56:41 [shawn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/20-eo-minutes.html shawn
17:45:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #eo
18:34:23 [yatil]
yatil has joined #eo