IRC log of html-a11y on 2013-12-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:01:35 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
- 16:01:35 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-html-a11y-irc
- 16:01:37 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 16:01:39 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2119
- 16:01:39 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
- 16:01:40 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 16:01:40 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 December 2013
- 16:01:50 [janina_]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:01:51 [Zakim]
- apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, janina_
- 16:01:51 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, aardrian, MarkS___, MarkS__, plh, chaals, LJWatson, Judy, davidb, SteveF, MarkS_, MarkS, cabanier, hober, janina_, janina, Zakim, trackbot
- 16:01:59 [rubys]
- rubys has joined #html-a11y
- 16:02:40 [plh]
- zakim, list conferences
- 16:02:40 [Zakim]
- I see UW_WebRTC()11:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM active
- 16:02:42 [Zakim]
- also scheduled at this time are VB_VBWG(CCXML)11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, UW_DAP()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(TMO)11:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM, Styl_XSL-FO-()11:00AM, Team_Comm()10:00AM,
- 16:02:42 [Zakim]
- ... SW_(PROV)11:00AM, Team_(html-chairs)15:05Z, T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM, XML_QueryWG(XSLT)11:00AM
- 16:02:50 [chaals]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:02:50 [Zakim]
- apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, chaals
- 16:02:51 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see rubys, RRSAgent, aardrian, MarkS___, MarkS__, plh, chaals, LJWatson, Judy, davidb, SteveF, MarkS_, MarkS, cabanier, hober, janina_, janina, Zakim, trackbot
- 16:02:57 [chaals]
- zakim, this is wai
- 16:02:57 [Zakim]
- ok, chaals; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
- 16:03:02 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
- 16:03:04 [chaals]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:03:04 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P10, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, [IPcaller.a]
- 16:03:08 [janina_]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:03:08 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P10, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, [IPcaller.a]
- 16:03:12 [chaals]
- zakim, [ipcaller.a is me
- 16:03:12 [Zakim]
- +chaals; got it
- 16:03:18 [janina_]
- zakim, ??P10 is me
- 16:03:19 [Zakim]
- +janina_; got it
- 16:03:22 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 16:03:36 [chaals]
- zakim, [ip is leonie
- 16:03:36 [Zakim]
- +leonie; got it
- 16:03:38 [paulc_]
- paulc_ has joined #html-a11y
- 16:04:03 [paulc_]
- zakim, what is the code?
- 16:04:03 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc_
- 16:04:17 [chaals]
- agenda+ Longdesc CfC
- 16:04:17 [chaals]
- agenda+ MSE response and ongoing issue
- 16:04:17 [chaals]
- agenda+ subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html>
- 16:04:17 [chaals]
- agenda+ subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html>
- 16:04:18 [chaals]
- agenda+ Any Other Business
- 16:04:25 [chaals]
- zakim, close item 1
- 16:04:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, Should work on drawCustomFocusRing go to L2?, closed
- 16:04:26 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:04:26 [Zakim]
- 3. Should scrollPathIntoView refer to fallback elements rather than "notional children" having a defined location? [from MarkS]
- 16:04:31 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:04:35 [chaals]
- zakim, close item 3
- 16:04:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Should scrollPathIntoView refer to fallback elements rather than "notional children" having a defined location?, closed
- 16:04:37 [MarkS]
- scribe: aardrian
- 16:04:38 [Zakim]
- I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:04:38 [Zakim]
- 4. next meeting date [from MarkS]
- 16:04:42 [chaals]
- zakim, close item 4
- 16:04:42 [Zakim]
- agendum 4, next meeting date, closed
- 16:04:43 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:04:43 [Zakim]
- 5. Longdesc CfC [from chaals]
- 16:04:43 [paulc_]
- zakim, [Microsoft] has me
- 16:04:44 [Zakim]
- +paulc_; got it
- 16:04:59 [chaals]
- scribe: Adrian
- 16:05:15 [chaals]
- scribenick: aardrian
- 16:05:23 [chaals]
- chair: chaals
- 16:05:26 [chaals]
- zakim, next agendum
- 16:05:27 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Longdesc CfC" taken up [from chaals]
- 16:05:40 [Zakim]
- +Judy
- 16:06:02 [chaals]
- Topic: Longdesc CfC
- 16:06:35 [JF]
- JF has joined #html-a11y
- 16:06:43 [MarkS]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0077.html Longdesc CfC
- 16:06:55 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:07:25 [aardrian]
- CMN: Longdesc CfC request to publish as standalone spec. Any questions for process?
- 16:07:58 [chaals]
- q+
- 16:08:13 [aardrian]
- PC: Normative references language, is that part of HTML5 considered stable?
- 16:08:24 [aardrian]
- CMN: Yes. Specifically the <img> element.
- 16:09:09 [aardrian]
- PC: Robin's work should have reference material to prove this assertion.
- 16:09:11 [plh]
- --> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tests-cr-exit/ HTML5 CR exit criteria status
- 16:10:06 [chaals]
- zakim, close this item
- 16:10:08 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chaals
- 16:10:13 [chaals]
- q?
- 16:10:15 [chaals]
- q-
- 16:10:18 [chaals]
- zakim, close this item
- 16:10:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 closed
- 16:10:19 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:10:19 [Zakim]
- 6. MSE response and ongoing issue [from chaals]
- 16:10:32 [chaals]
- Topic: MSE response and ongoing issue.
- 16:10:58 [plh]
- q+
- 16:11:27 [aardrian]
- CMN: Media Group rejected a11y TF request for MSE.
- 16:11:48 [aardrian]
- CMN: Propsed change was editorial, shouldn't prevent spec from going to CR.
- 16:12:45 [aardrian]
- CMN: Minimum code example doesn't afford for sign language track.
- 16:13:13 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:13:17 [aardrian]
- CMN: Resolution notes that if consensus changes, then TF may change recommendation.
- 16:13:21 [chaals]
- ack plh
- 16:14:34 [aardrian]
- PLH: MSE as API to attached to <video> to expand it.
- 16:14:52 [aardrian]
- PLH: Satisfying use case requires two sources at a time.
- 16:15:00 [Judy]
- q+
- 16:15:29 [aardrian]
- PLH: <video> can only play one element at time (unlike <audio>).
- 16:15:59 [paulc_]
- q-
- 16:16:01 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:16:05 [aardrian]
- PLH: Supporting sign language use case requires two <video>s or embedded in one track.
- 16:16:15 [JF]
- Q+ to ask why it can only support 1 video, but more than 1 audio?
- 16:17:05 [aardrian]
- PLH: MSE defines new kind of video source. Different from <video> restriction.
- 16:17:31 [aardrian]
- JS: From where does synchronization come?
- 16:18:02 [aardrian]
- PLH: From media @group as defined in HTML5. Not MSE's job to do that.
- 16:18:45 [MarkS]
- q+ to ask what happens if you have an MSE src (dynamic) with static sign language video
- 16:18:52 [paulc_]
- q-
- 16:18:54 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:19:44 [JF]
- ack JF
- 16:19:44 [Zakim]
- JF, you wanted to ask why it can only support 1 video, but more than 1 audio?
- 16:19:57 [aardrian]
- CMN: MSE allows you to choose different sources based on things like bandwidth.
- 16:21:05 [chaals]
- ack judy
- 16:21:06 [aardrian]
- PLH: Media controller handles synch, MSE handles source.
- 16:22:28 [aardrian]
- JB: Discussing different working groups who have been involved in discussion (PFWG, A11Y TF, etc.)
- 16:22:43 [chaals]
- s/MSE allows/If it isn't directly MSE but an intermediate layer (which I hadn't seen from the spec), or HTML, that allows/
- 16:23:06 [aardrian]
- JB: We may not be fully investigating where use cases intersect.
- 16:23:26 [chaals]
- s/like bandwidth/like bandwidth, then I think our comment doesn't belong on MSE (but think we want it somewhere and I'm not sure where :S )/
- 16:24:12 [janina_]
- q+
- 16:24:14 [chaals]
- zakim, mute leonie
- 16:24:14 [Zakim]
- leonie should now be muted
- 16:24:27 [paulc_]
- q-
- 16:24:29 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:24:31 [chaals]
- zakim, unmute leonie
- 16:24:31 [Zakim]
- leonie should no longer be muted
- 16:24:42 [chaals]
- ack mark
- 16:24:42 [Zakim]
- MarkS, you wanted to ask what happens if you have an MSE src (dynamic) with static sign language video
- 16:25:58 [aardrian]
- JB: Wants to look at use cases for a11y and how analyzed when intersecting other groups, translations.
- 16:26:54 [aardrian]
- MS: If MSE is dynamic stream, and there is static sign language track, does MSE tell media controller of timeline change?
- 16:27:23 [aardrian]
- PLH: No. There is only one timeline for the controller, MSE defines that.
- 16:27:50 [aardrian]
- PLH: That would require JavaScript to implement.
- 16:28:30 [aardrian]
- MS: So it is technically possible, but requires some scripting-fu.
- 16:28:58 [chaals]
- q+ to point out that more than one audio track has mutliple known use cases too.
- 16:29:02 [chaals]
- ack jan
- 16:29:36 [aardrian]
- JS: Thanks to PLH for explanation. Now willing to back off from previous concerns.
- 16:29:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q?
- 16:30:01 [aardrian]
- JS: Concern still around not knowing robustness (via WCAG) within MSE.
- 16:30:23 [Judy]
- s/Discussing different working groups who have been involved in discussion (PFWG, A11Y TF, etc.)/I support Philippe's concern (that the sign language use case requires more than one embedded <video>); partly this concern comes from review of Media User Accessibility Requirements doc (from PFWG and HTML-A11y TF)/
- 16:31:27 [paulc_]
- For an example demo see the WWDC reference in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0030.html
- 16:31:32 [chaals]
- ack pau
- 16:31:38 [aardrian]
- JS: Wants to make a focus for 2014, to identify weaknesses for supporting multilingual, etc.
- 16:32:28 [aardrian]
- PC: Link to demo showing it in action in Safari, including synchronizing to media streams.
- 16:32:54 [aardrian]
- JS: Suggesting going more from proof of concept to full suite.
- 16:33:04 [Judy]
- s/We may not be fully investigating where use cases intersect./My concern is that we may be insufficiently analyzing two situations: (1) where accessibility solutions require delivery through multiple W3C technologies, that may be at different stages of evolution; (2) where accessibility use cases may overlap with other use cases such as presentation of translations in other human languages/
- 16:34:05 [aardrian]
- PC: Believes bugs should be opened at HTML5, not MSE, related to these isues.
- 16:34:45 [chaals]
- ack me
- 16:34:45 [Zakim]
- chaals, you wanted to point out that more than one audio track has mutliple known use cases too.
- 16:36:47 [aardrian]
- CMN: Immediate focus is about dealing with this issue, not losing focus on a11y, not getting in way of Media TF.
- 16:37:32 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:37:50 [aardrian]
- CMN: May be parallel issue to sign language use case - support for second audio track.
- 16:38:16 [janina_]
- The use case Charles is discussing is called "Clean Audio" in the User Requirements doc
- 16:38:26 [aardrian]
- CMN: Suggesting holding onto bug until we understand overall spec better.
- 16:38:58 [aardrian]
- CMN: Should communicate to Media TF that we are still learning spec, applying use cases.
- 16:39:32 [Judy]
- q+
- 16:39:36 [aardrian]
- JS: References "clean audio" in user reqs doc.
- 16:39:37 [chaals]
- ack ju
- 16:39:59 [chaals]
- zakim, agenda?
- 16:39:59 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
- 16:40:00 [Zakim]
- 6. MSE response and ongoing issue [from chaals]
- 16:40:00 [Zakim]
- 7. subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html> [from chaals]
- 16:40:00 [Zakim]
- 8. subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html> [from chaals]
- 16:40:00 [Zakim]
- 9. Any Other Business [from chaals]
- 16:40:13 [janina_]
- q+
- 16:40:32 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:40:47 [aardrian]
- JB: Looking at media a11y requirements with PLH, thinks it's worth reviewing to make sure we are current.
- 16:41:05 [chaals]
- q+
- 16:41:17 [JF]
- Q+
- 16:41:29 [aardrian]
- JB: Wants to get working on that in early January, coordinate with other groups sooner rather than later.
- 16:41:42 [chaals]
- ack jan
- 16:42:37 [aardrian]
- JS: PFWG - got to review edits, almost through them all at TPAC.
- 16:43:11 [aardrian]
- JS: Understand there needs to be more care looking at a11y requirements.
- 16:43:14 [chaals]
- ack me
- 16:43:41 [aardrian]
- CMN: Great to have media team collaborating, but resource constraints are an issue.
- 16:44:01 [chaals]
- ack JF
- 16:44:09 [aardrian]
- CMN: Will try to make self available in part of January.
- 16:44:23 [MarkS]
- expresses interest and availability in Media Sub Team
- 16:44:48 [aardrian]
- JF: Ideally before 23rd.
- 16:45:40 [chaals]
- zakim, close this item
- 16:45:40 [Zakim]
- I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
- 16:45:50 [chaals]
- Topic: Bug Triage
- 16:45:58 [chaals]
- zakim, close item 6
- 16:45:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 6, MSE response and ongoing issue, closed
- 16:45:59 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:45:59 [Zakim]
- 7. subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html> [from chaals]
- 16:46:19 [aardrian]
- LW: Quick meeting yesterday. Two bugs to be tracked.
- 16:47:22 [aardrian]
- LW: Changes in process to keep them moving.
- 16:47:28 [chaals]
- Topic: Canvas subteam
- 16:47:37 [chaals]
- zakim, close this agendum
- 16:47:37 [Zakim]
- I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
- 16:47:49 [chaals]
- zakim, close item 7
- 16:47:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 7, subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html>, closed
- 16:47:52 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:47:52 [Zakim]
- 8. subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html> [from chaals]
- 16:48:15 [aardrian]
- MS: Discussed CfC to drop CustomFocusRing, decided best to move to Level 2.
- 16:48:35 [aardrian]
- MS: Any work on open bugs still continuing, targeting L1 and L2.
- 16:48:49 [chaals]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 16:49:02 [Zakim]
- chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mark_Sadecki (39%), John_Foliot (65%)
- 16:49:11 [chaals]
- zakim, mute John_Foliot
- 16:49:11 [Zakim]
- John_Foliot should now be muted
- 16:49:23 [aardrian]
- MS: Moved some bugs along.
- 16:49:48 [aardrian]
- MS: Next meeting, Monday, January 6, 6pm Boston time.
- 16:49:52 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:49:59 [chaals]
- ack pa
- 16:50:18 [aardrian]
- PC: Do you have a ballpark estimate to process 10 bugs plus new ones?
- 16:50:26 [aardrian]
- MS: 2-3 months, starting in January.
- 16:50:58 [aardrian]
- PC: Is it worth pulling <canvas> to last call until bugs are further along?
- 16:51:37 [aardrian]
- MS: Have the right people, assignments followed, but also only had one meeting.
- 16:51:40 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q+
- 16:52:40 [plh]
- q+
- 16:52:50 [aardrian]
- PC: There seems to be agreement on what is marked at risk, what is to be retained.
- 16:53:12 [aardrian]
- PC: Sam and I are trying to find fasted way to get <canvas> to Rec.
- 16:53:45 [aardrian]
- PC: Thinks best plan is to get update from Mark and identify best plan forward with Sam and team.
- 16:54:10 [chaals]
- ack ric
- 16:54:23 [aardrian]
- RS: Moving DrawCustomFocusRing to L2 dramatically reduces the churn.
- 16:54:56 [paulc_]
- Possible strategy is to move the drawCustomFocusRing bugs to L2 and concentrate the sub-team work on the remaining L1 bugs
- 16:55:00 [aardrian]
- RS: Big item is adapting wording for DrawCustomFocusRing, scrolling piece will take longer.
- 16:55:03 [chaals]
- ack plh
- 16:55:16 [paulc_]
- q+
- 16:56:11 [aardrian]
- PLH: TF resolution was to move drawCustomFocusRing to L2.
- 16:56:31 [chaals]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html Canvas subteam meeting minutes
- 16:56:39 [chaals]
- ack pa
- 16:57:20 [MarkS]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0070.html Canvas Sub Group Minutes
- 16:57:22 [aardrian]
- PC: Prioritize L1 bugs to move it along after moving drawCustomFocusRing to L2.
- 16:57:50 [paulc_]
- Happy Holidays to TF members
- 16:58:10 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:58:28 [aardrian]
- CMN: Resume meetings in 3 weeks, 6th of January.
- 16:58:32 [chaals]
- [adjourned]
- 16:58:34 [Zakim]
- -janina_
- 16:58:35 [Zakim]
- -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 16:58:35 [Zakim]
- -Plh
- 16:58:35 [Zakim]
- -John_Foliot
- 16:58:37 [Zakim]
- -Mark_Sadecki
- 16:58:54 [paulc_]
- rrsagent, generate the minutes
- 16:58:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-html-a11y-minutes.html paulc_
- 16:58:59 [Zakim]
- -Adrian_Roselli
- 16:58:59 [aardrian]
- aardrian has left #html-a11y
- 16:59:10 [Zakim]
- -leonie
- 16:59:15 [Zakim]
- -chaals
- 16:59:46 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 17:02:59 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 17:03:01 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
- 17:03:01 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, chaals, janina_, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, leonie, paulc_, Judy, Cynthia_Shelly
- 18:20:34 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #html-a11y
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- davidb has joined #html-a11y
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- SteveF has joined #html-a11y
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- rubys has left #html-a11y
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