IRC log of webtv on 2013-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:19 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #webtv

13:55:19 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-irc

13:55:34 [igarashi]

igarashi has joined #webtv

13:55:45 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Gap Analysis review

13:55:49 [jcverdie]

agenda

13:55:56 [jcverdie]

zakim, agenda?

13:55:56 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:

13:55:57 [Zakim]

4. new template http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/UseCases [from jcverdie]

13:55:57 [Zakim]

5. Gap Analysis review [from jcverdie]

13:56:11 [jcverdie]

zakim, delete agendum 4

13:56:11 [Zakim]

agendum 4, new template http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/UseCases, dropped

13:56:13 [jcverdie]

zakim, delete agendum 5

13:56:13 [Zakim]

agendum 5, Gap Analysis review, dropped

13:56:17 [jcverdie]

zakim, agenda?

13:56:17 [Zakim]

I see nothing remaining on the agenda

13:56:19 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Gap Analysis review

13:56:27 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Use Cases refactoring

13:57:33 [jcverdie]

zakim, clear agenda

13:57:33 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

13:57:38 [jcverdie]

zakim, agenda ?

13:57:38 [Zakim]

I see nothing on the agenda

13:57:40 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Gap Analysis review

13:57:43 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Use Cases refactoring

13:57:53 [jcverdie]

agenda+ Tuner CG discussion (if time permits)

13:59:00 [Zakim]

UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has now started

13:59:07 [Zakim]

+??P15

13:59:08 [PaulHiggs]

PaulHiggs has joined #webtv

13:59:14 [Zakim]

-??P15

13:59:15 [Zakim]

UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended

13:59:15 [Zakim]

Attendees were

13:59:25 [Zakim]

UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has now started

13:59:33 [Zakim]

+Jean-Charles

14:00:17 [Zakim]

+Paul_Higgs

14:01:20 [Sheau]

Sheau has joined #webtv

14:01:59 [Bin_Hu]

Bin_Hu has joined #webtv

14:02:35 [Zakim]

+Sheau_Ng

14:02:42 [Zakim]

+??P17

14:03:02 [Zakim]

+Bin_Hu

14:03:29 [igarashi]

+Tatauya

14:03:30 [Zakim]

+gmandyam

14:03:44 [gmandyam]

gmandyam has joined #webtv

14:04:17 [igarashi]

+Tatsuya_Igarashi

14:05:45 [igarashi]

+??P17 is Igarashi

14:06:45 [jcverdie]

zakim, list agenda

14:06:45 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:

14:06:47 [Zakim]

1. Gap Analysis review [from jcverdie]

14:06:47 [Zakim]

2. Use Cases refactoring [from jcverdie]

14:06:47 [Zakim]

3. Tuner CG discussion (if time permits) [from jcverdie]

14:07:11 [jcverdie]

Sheau: http://www.w3.org/mid/CEC217DF.B760%25sheau.ng@nbcuni.com

14:07:20 [jcverdie]

Daniel: http://www.w3.org/mid/529EC494.4070206@w3.org

14:07:28 [jcverdie]

Louay: http://www.w3.org/mid/3958197A5E3C084AB60E2718FE0723D4741498FB@FEYNMAN.fokus.fraunhofer.de

14:07:42 [jcverdie]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvACjV6qSvmxdEctdjYwa2JOalZLOG10elE1LVRZNlE#gid=1

14:07:53 [jcverdie]

regrets: D. Davis

14:07:58 [jcverdie]

next agendum

14:09:22 [jcverdie]

Sheau: http://www.w3.org/mid/CEC217DF.B760%25sheau.ng@nbcuni.com

14:09:42 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:10:27 [igarashi]

zakim, ??P17 is Igarashi

14:10:27 [Zakim]

+Igarashi; got it

14:11:09 [jcverdie]

Sheau: web storage

14:11:18 [jcverdie]

Sheau: req 8 recommendation is X

14:11:50 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-skype

14:11:50 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:11:52 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:11:55 [jcverdie]

... req 21

14:12:10 [kaz]

zakim, mute me

14:12:10 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki should now be muted

14:12:14 [w3c]

w3c has joined #webtv

14:12:16 [jcverdie]

q?

14:12:18 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

14:12:49 [jcverdie]

scribe: jcverdie

14:12:53 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-skype

14:12:53 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:12:55 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:13:01 [jcverdie]

if someone else wants to scribe that's ok, my line is really terrible today

14:13:37 [jcverdie]

Zakim, who's making noise ?

14:13:49 [Zakim]

jcverdie, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jean-Charles (28%), Sheau_Ng (52%), Bin_Hu (10%)

14:14:38 [jcverdie]

Sheau: messaging API

14:15:13 [w3c]

I'm in an all-day meeting, so I cannot call in, but I'm running IRC.

14:15:32 [jcverdie]

who is w3c?

14:15:58 [w3c]

sorry, this is mark vickers. just started a new IRC client. I'll fix it.

14:16:03 [kaz]

zakim, who is here?

14:16:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jean-Charles, Paul_Higgs, Sheau_Ng, Igarashi, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, Kazuyuki

14:16:05 [Zakim]

On IRC I see w3c, kaz, gmandyam, Bin_Hu, Sheau, PaulHiggs, igarashi, RRSAgent, jcverdie, Zakim, sangwhan, timeless, schuki, trackbot

14:16:19 [jcverdie]

Hi, Mark W3C Vickers :)

14:16:24 [jcverdie]

Sheau: comments?

14:16:26 [jcverdie]

q?

14:16:45 [yosuke]

yosuke has joined #webtv

14:16:47 [jcverdie]

Sheau: Manifest for Web Apps

14:18:29 [jcverdie]

q?

14:19:26 [kaz]

zakim, drop kazuyuki

14:19:26 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki is being disconnected

14:19:27 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

14:19:31 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-617

14:19:31 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:19:32 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:19:53 [kaz]

zakim, mute me

14:19:53 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki should now be muted

14:20:48 [jcverdie]

(sorry for not scribing, my line connexion is too bad)

14:20:53 [kaz]

zakim, who is here?

14:20:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jean-Charles, Paul_Higgs, Sheau_Ng, Igarashi, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, Kazuyuki (muted)

14:20:56 [Zakim]

On IRC I see yosuke, MarkVickers, kaz, gmandyam, Bin_Hu, Sheau, PaulHiggs, igarashi, RRSAgent, jcverdie, Zakim, sangwhan, timeless, schuki, trackbot

14:21:04 [jcverdie]

Sheau: comments?

14:21:38 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:21:42 [jcverdie]

Louay: http://www.w3.org/mid/3958197A5E3C084AB60E2718FE0723D4741498FB@FEYNMAN.fokus.fraunhofer.de

14:21:53 [kaz]

zakim, IPcaller is yosuke

14:21:53 [Zakim]

+yosuke; got it

14:22:01 [kaz]

zakim, who is here?

14:22:01 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jean-Charles, Paul_Higgs, Sheau_Ng, Igarashi, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, Kazuyuki (muted), yosuke

14:22:03 [Zakim]

On IRC I see yosuke, MarkVickers, kaz, gmandyam, Bin_Hu, Sheau, PaulHiggs, igarashi, RRSAgent, jcverdie, Zakim, sangwhan, timeless, schuki, trackbot

14:22:19 [kaz]

Present: JC, Paul, Sheau, Igarashi, Bin, Giri, Kaz, Yosuke

14:22:22 [jcverdie]

Daniel: http://www.w3.org/mid/529EC494.4070206@w3.org

14:22:32 [jcverdie]

jc: we have two emails

14:22:49 [jcverdie]

... from Daniel and Louay with proposed resolutions

14:22:58 [jcverdie]

... any comments on these?

14:24:22 [jcverdie]

... may be wait a few days to give people a chance to read these emails

14:25:24 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:25:29 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:25:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:27:09 [kaz]

Louay's writeup: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2013Dec/0010.html

14:27:50 [kaz]

Chair: JC

14:27:56 [kaz]

Regrets: Daniel

14:28:01 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:28:05 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: there are a few remaining ? in web crypto

14:28:13 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:13 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:28:23 [jcverdie]

yosuke: right, we need clarification on req side

14:28:36 [kaz]

Meeting: Web and TV IG - Media APIs TF call

14:28:48 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:29:09 [kaz]

-> https://docs.google.com/a/keio.w3.org/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvACjV6qSvmxdEctdjYwa2JOalZLOG10elE1LVRZNlE&richtext=true#gid=1 Google Doc Gap Analysis table

14:29:16 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:29:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:29:29 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: how can we get some comments?

14:29:39 [jcverdie]

Sheau: trace back to reqs

14:31:44 [jcverdie]

http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Requirements#Device_Authentication_Mechanism

14:31:56 [jcverdie]

http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Requirements#Device_Authentication_Mechanism

14:32:23 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:32:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:32:44 [jcverdie]

Zakim, who's making noise?

14:32:57 [Zakim]

jcverdie, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jean-Charles (4%), Sheau_Ng (22%), Bin_Hu (76%)

14:33:07 [kaz]

zakim, mute Bin_Hu

14:33:08 [Zakim]

Bin_Hu should now be muted

14:33:57 [gmandyam]

q+

14:34:50 [kaz]

Present+ Mark(IRC)

14:35:03 [jcverdie]

ack gmandyam

14:35:19 [jcverdie]

yosuke: ??? (too much noise)

14:35:28 [jcverdie]

gmandyam: web crypto is mainly sw implementation

14:35:57 [jcverdie]

... such mechanism is much more than what web crypto would deliver

14:36:16 [jcverdie]

... web crypto unlike EME is not deeply HW integrated

14:36:21 [kaz]

s/??? (too much noise)/we could use Web crypto for authentication but it depends on the implementation of Web browsers/

14:36:30 [jcverdie]

yosuke: different opinion

14:36:48 [jcverdie]

... web crypto is interface to other entities (middleware or hw)

14:36:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:36:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:37:09 [jcverdie]

gmandyam: on android we're not going to open any hw interface to the browser

14:37:48 [jcverdie]

gmandyam: I would put a red cross

14:38:08 [Bin_Hu]

q+

14:38:26 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: does it mean that we need to leave it or move it to a different group?

14:38:50 [jcverdie]

ack Bin_Hu

14:39:04 [jcverdie]

Bin_Hu: +1 giri

14:39:10 [jcverdie]

... red cross

14:39:52 [jcverdie]

... or blank if we see it as not a sufficient solution (web crypto)

14:40:16 [jcverdie]

yosuke: i don't think webcrypto is a good solution neither

14:40:17 [gmandyam]

To clarify: My parent org. (Qualcomm) has concluded that Web Crypto has no HW dependencies, and requires nothing from the HW to support. Therefore the working assumption is that it will be a SW-only implementation. Device auth. is not possible.

14:40:43 [jcverdie]

... if we want to find a good solution, we need to put a red cross

14:41:05 [jcverdie]

... if we just want a solution, I think we can use webcrypto anyway

14:41:47 [Bin_Hu]

Based on Giri's more information, I suggest to put "blank", i.e. N/A for REQ 6 Device Authentication

14:41:53 [kaz]

s/good solution/good solution for device authentication/

14:42:05 [jcverdie]

Sheau: ???

14:42:18 [Bin_Hu]

... to put Red X for REQ 5.2 App Authentication

14:42:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:42:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:43:01 [jcverdie]

if anyone can hear Sheau properly please scribe him, I can't hear him clearly

14:43:29 [kaz]

zakim, who is here?

14:43:29 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jean-Charles, Paul_Higgs, Sheau_Ng, Igarashi, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, Kazuyuki (muted), yosuke

14:43:32 [Zakim]

On IRC I see yosuke, MarkVickers, kaz, gmandyam, Bin_Hu, Sheau, PaulHiggs, igarashi, RRSAgent, jcverdie, Zakim, sangwhan, timeless, schuki, trackbot

14:43:50 [kaz]

zakim, unmute me

14:43:50 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki should no longer be muted

14:44:49 [jcverdie]

Bin_Hu: device auth => blank

14:45:16 [jcverdie]

... App authentication => red cross

14:45:33 [jcverdie]

... or a blank if it's really not applicable

14:45:56 [jcverdie]

+1 Bin

14:46:21 [jcverdie]

Sheau: +1 but leave a note somewhere to ???

14:47:00 [MarkVickers]

MarkVickers has joined #webtv

14:47:46 [jcverdie]

Bin_Hu: Giri's comment should be captured as final comment on the spreadsheet

14:48:12 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: Yosuke can do this?

14:48:49 [jcverdie]

ACTION: Bin to capture Giri's comment and finalize "?" in Web Crypto

14:48:49 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-177 - Capture giri's comment and finalize "?" in web crypto [on Bin Hu - due 2013-12-11].

14:49:01 [Sheau]

s/???/give ourselves action to identify where Device Authentication Rq can or should be met./

14:49:23 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: should we go through Daniel comments of we keep it offline?

14:49:53 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: Service Workers. kaz, had you a chance to start this?

14:50:25 [jcverdie]

... next week for both of them

14:50:34 [jcverdie]

next agendum

14:50:47 [jcverdie]

current list of UC : http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Use_Cases

14:50:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:50:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:50:57 [jcverdie]

new template: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/UseCases

14:51:53 [kaz]

i/current list/topic: Use Cases refractoring

14:51:53 [kaz]

s/refractoring/refactoring/

14:51:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:51:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:52:05 [jcverdie]

... Bin, should we do some archeology for each use case owner?

14:52:25 [jcverdie]

Bin: yes

14:52:34 [kaz]

s/... Bin,/JC: BIn,/

14:52:37 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:52:37 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:52:40 [jcverdie]

next agendum

14:53:01 [kaz]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:53:01 [Zakim]

agendum 3 was just opened, kaz

14:53:07 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:53:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:53:34 [kaz]

topic: Tuner CG discussion

14:53:35 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:53:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:53:50 [jcverdie]

email sent today: http://www.w3.org/mid/CA819749-78C4-4D71-A83B-F05030AC6795@yahoo.fr

14:53:55 [jcverdie]

summarizing the discussion

14:54:16 [jcverdie]

how can we name it? how can we describe its goal?

14:54:53 [kaz]

s/summarizing/JC: summarizing

14:54:53 [kaz]

s/how/JC: how/

14:54:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:54:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:54:57 [jcverdie]

we would like to name it in an agnostic way

14:55:01 [jcverdie]

not tuner API, not tuner URI

14:55:04 [jcverdie]

comments?

14:55:16 [jcverdie]

s/we would/... we would

14:55:20 [jcverdie]

s/not tuner/... not tuner

14:55:27 [jcverdie]

s/comments/... comments

14:55:35 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:55:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:56:12 [kaz]

s/how can/... how can/

14:56:23 [kaz]

s/we would/... we would/

14:56:32 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:56:59 [jcverdie]

Sheau: Tuner Management ?

14:57:33 [jcverdie]

Sheau: Tuner part is ok, right?

14:57:38 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: i think so

14:57:50 [kaz]

q+ to suggest "tuning"

14:58:00 [jcverdie]

ack kaz

14:58:00 [Zakim]

kaz, you wanted to suggest "tuning"

14:58:28 [jcverdie]

kaz: something like Channel Tuning

14:58:45 [jcverdie]

... Tuner implies something else, tuning just talks about functionalities

14:59:04 [jcverdie]

yosuke: Tuner API is not so bad imho

14:59:13 [jcverdie]

... i can live with any kind of name

15:00:27 [kaz]

s/something else/specific devices or software/

15:00:32 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:00:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

15:00:38 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: Kaz and Sheau please reply to my email sent today so we can have a conclusion

15:00:40 [jcverdie]

next agendum

15:00:52 [jcverdie]

jcverdie: AOB?

15:01:09 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:01:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

15:02:33 [Zakim]

-Sheau_Ng

15:02:35 [Zakim]

-Paul_Higgs

15:02:38 [Zakim]

-Bin_Hu

15:02:42 [Zakim]

-gmandyam

15:02:44 [Zakim]

-Jean-Charles

15:02:45 [Zakim]

-Igarashi

15:02:52 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

15:02:52 [yosuke]

[yosuke: Regarding new names for Tuner API TF, new names are likely to bring new problems. For example channels or services can bring other kind of issues.]

15:03:21 [kaz]

[ adjourned ]

15:03:23 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:03:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/04-webtv-minutes.html kaz

15:03:32 [kaz]

rrsagent, stop