15:56:07 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:56:07 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-irc
15:56:09 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:09 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:56:11 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:56:11 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:12 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:56:12 Date: 03 December 2013
15:57:10 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
15:57:17 +[Microsoft]
15:57:28 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:57:28 +paulc; got it
15:58:13 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0000.html
15:58:42 +Glenn
15:58:54 Michael_Thornburgh has joined #html-media
15:59:04 pladd has joined #html-media
16:00:00 markw has joined #html-media
16:00:15 +pladd
16:00:21 +Michael_Thornburgh
16:00:43 +MarkW
16:00:52 ddorwin has joined #html-media
16:00:55 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:55 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, MarkW
16:01:02 Zakim, MarkW is me
16:01:02 +markw; got it
16:01:06 davide has joined #html-media
16:01:50 +davide
16:02:05 joesteele has joined #html-media
16:02:09 +AWK
16:03:00 acolwell has joined #html-media
16:03:15 + +1.425.605.aaaa
16:03:23 +Aaron_Colwell
16:03:27 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:27 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, markw, davide, AWK, +1.425.605.aaaa, Aaron_Colwell
16:03:39 zakim, aaaa is me
16:03:39 +ddorwin; got it
16:03:51 adrianba has joined #html-media
16:04:34 +pal
16:04:49 pal has joined #html-media
16:05:18 Zakim, AWK is joesteele
16:05:18 +joesteele; got it
16:05:35 +[Microsoft]
16:05:35 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:36 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, markw, davide, joesteele, ddorwin, Aaron_Colwell, pal, [Microsoft]
16:05:39 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:05:40 +adrianba; got it
16:05:41 Scribe: joesteele
16:05:49 Chair: paulc
16:05:56 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0000.html
16:06:03 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:06:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:06:16 paulc: objective is to review F2F and figure next steps
16:06:23 ... and review progress
16:06:30 Zakim, who is here?
16:06:30 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, markw, davide, joesteele, ddorwin, Aaron_Colwell, pal, adrianba
16:06:32 On IRC I see pal, adrianba, acolwell, joesteele, davide, ddorwin, markw, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, glenn, danny_, wseltzer, trackbot
16:06:43 AWK is Andrew Kirkpatrick (Adobe)
16:06:45 Topic: Role Call
16:06:46 done
16:06:56 Topic: Previous Minutes
16:06:57 F2F minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-html-wg-minutes.html
16:07:12 is Paul dropping out for anyone else?043143
16:07:13 paulc: lots of EME and MSE stuff in the minutes
16:07:18 oops
16:07:32 ... skip some action items for now -- they seem to be moot
16:07:38 Topic: MSE status and bugs
16:07:49 s/is Paul dropping out for anyone else?043143/ /
16:08:05 paulc: draft updated today
16:08:33 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
16:08:45 ... editors draft
16:09:01 ... agenda yesterday shows 3 bugs open - but draft has been updated since then
16:09:07 ... no more opne bugs
16:09:11 s/opne/open/
16:09:16 See MSE bugs: http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
16:09:31 Topic: F2F Action Plan
16:09:53 paulc: were those bugs processed?
16:09:54 Bugs to be finished: 23169, 23441, and 23818
16:10:30 paulc: next item is -- have the editors produces a candidate CR draft?
16:10:40 ddorwin: generated a draft
16:10:40 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/default/media-source/media-source-cr.html
16:11:00 markw_ has joined #html-media
16:11:07 s/ddorwin: generated/acolwell: generated/
16:11:20 acolwell: have a couple of questions
16:11:48 ... one of the things complained about is an implementatior report -- what is that?
16:12:12 paulc: when you go in front of the director -- need to tell him/her what forms of interop you have
16:12:23 s/implementatior/implementation/
16:12:34 paulc: not sure how this was gone around for HTML5
16:12:40 jdsmith has joined #html-media
16:12:59 acolwell: other thing is when running through the link checked - we have a reference to the file api around the origin of blob urls
16:13:05 ... that was removed from the file api
16:13:10 +[Microsoft]
16:13:26 ... intent originally was to say that however it is determined it is the same for MSE
16:13:38 ... file spec no longer says how this is acheived (definition of the origin)
16:13:47 ... planning on filing a bug
16:13:58 s/acheived/achieved/
16:14:12 Normative references: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/default/media-source/media-source-cr.html#normative-references
16:14:13 acolwell: search for "origin of blobl uris" in the spec
16:14:24 s/blobl/blob/
16:15:03 Text referring to FILE-API is "A MediaSource object URL is a unique Blob URI [FILE-API] created by createObjectURL(). It is used to attach a MediaSource object to an HTMLMediaElement."
16:15:03 acolwell: only one reference, but I remember cyril filed a bug wanting it clarified
16:15:06 q+
16:15:17 ... believe it is the equiv of the document origin - but not an expert
16:15:40 paulc: section 6 says this section specifies extensions to the URI definition -- assume that does not change?
16:15:58 acolwell: that does not change
16:16:29 adrianba: one of the reasons this is important is that EME sits on top of the origin determination
16:16:37 ... important aspects that look for same origin
16:16:44 ... to prevent disclosing information
16:17:01 ... using MSE and EME together -- important to know what the origin of the data was
16:17:26 ... recall some discussion w/ Arun from Mozilla about his proposal to remove the origin tie for blocks at the April of May F2F
16:17:42 ... pointed out we had some restrictions -- must have been dropped as they have gone ahead and removed it
16:18:25 acolwell: now reference only seems to be when you remove URLs -- nothing about when the blob is created
16:18:44 adrianba: think we need to talk to the File API group about this
16:18:59 ... change may cause a general implementation problem
16:19:04 acolwell: I will file a bug
16:19:09 ... this blocks CR
16:19:39 paulc: section (11) that seems to have disappeared is the URI reference for file blob
16:19:51 acolwell: I can copy that text
16:20:05 paulc: lets put that in the minutes
16:20:15 The FILE-API section we were referencing is http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-FileAPI-20121025/#originOfBlob
16:20:33 paulc: previous working draft -- not the current one
16:20:58 ... sounds like we should file a bug on the LC working draft issued in September -- point out the section they removed
16:21:16 adrianba: I think it is more complicated -- was not done by accident
16:21:32 paulc: who will take the action?
16:21:44 acolwell: I can file the bug -- should I just copy the text?
16:21:57 Even if it's not a simple issue, shouldn't we file a bug to get our foot in the door of the LC process?
16:22:16 s/acolwell: I can file/ddorwin: I can file/
16:22:58 s/shouldn't we file a bug/shouldn't we file a bug against FileAPI/
16:23:01 adrianba: when I talked to Arun about this before -- folks were suggesting we could just remove this, but I pointed out we were relying on it
16:23:14 ... currentlyour implementation only works with MSE
16:23:37 ... since we feed information in via a blob URI which can only be de-referenced in the same origin
16:23:47 ... if we remove we no longer have that guarantee
16:24:00 ... this is in our implementation (Microsoft)
16:24:18 s/currentlyour/currently our/
16:24:41 paulc: so Aaron will file a bug on File API
16:25:19 ACTION: Aaron to file a bug on MSE about the File API change
16:25:19 Created ACTION-57 - File a bug on mse about the file api change [on Aaron Colwell - due 2013-12-10].
16:25:24 s/on File API/about File API/
16:26:18 ACTION: Adrian to speak to editors of File API spec about resurrecting "origin of blob" text in spec
16:26:18 Created ACTION-58 - Speak to editors of file api spec about resurrecting "origin of blob" text in spec [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-12-10].
16:26:33 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:26:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:27:16 paulc: so this is blocking us getting out of LC -- contact me once you have dealt with the problem
16:27:22 ... by next Tuesday?
16:27:32 ... thanks for the due diligence
16:27:45 acolwell: one more question
16:28:11 ... latest streams editors draft is significantly different than what was before - so we have a reference to previous working draft
16:28:21 ... is that ok for a CR document?
16:28:28 ... names may not be stable enough otherwise
16:28:57 ... TR would be OK, but current editors draft changes would break us
16:29:10 paulc: I had an action item (231)
16:29:12 ACTION: paulc to coordinate with Web Apps on the streams API, give them MSE requirements and timeline
16:29:12 Created ACTION-59 - Coordinate with web apps on the streams api, give them mse requirements and timeline [on Paul Cotton - due 2013-12-10].
16:29:23 ... seems related
16:29:41 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/231
16:29:53 ... at the F2F pointed out we need to cooridinate with Streams API
16:30:11 s/cooridinate/coordinate/
16:30:41 paulc: I will close the working group tracker action and use this one instead
16:31:00 s/File API/FILE-API/
16:31:15 paulc: which items are actually changing in the spec?
16:31:17 Editor's draft of Streams: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/streams-api/raw-file/tip/Overview.htm
16:31:32 q+
16:31:48 ack adrian
16:31:51 ack pal
16:31:52 acolwell: we reference a stream item, but we reference readable stream items, writeable stream items, not clear whether we should reference
16:32:13 pal: my recall is that this group would express its preference to the group in charge of this spec
16:32:22 paulc: yes -- we have a normative dependency
16:32:30 q+
16:32:40 pal: until this is done and an answer is received, hard to make a determination how to resolve this issue
16:33:00 ... specifically -- should not reference an older version hoping it will not change
16:33:05 paulc: agree completely
16:33:20 ... we could if we got the confirmation back
16:33:28 ack adr
16:33:31 ... we need to make sure we understand what is happening
16:33:56 adrianba: I think what Aaron has done -- link to a dated draft is reasinable for a CR
16:34:17 ... at TPAC we did not know where this was going to go and did not want to mark as "at risk"
16:34:30 ... we have continued to reference streams
16:34:53 ... will go back and tidy up references to streams once it becomes stable
16:35:04 ... looks now like a simple change, but could change more
16:35:44 ... think it is reasinable to say "this is the concept we had in mind -- we will fix once stabilized"
16:35:51 s/reasinable/reasonable/
16:36:23 paulc: as chari, I think that is a reasonable approach. Need to make sure our references are stable to get out of CR
16:36:31 s/chari,/chair,/
16:36:43 sounds good.
16:36:44 paulc: could issues a new CR before LC
16:36:53 s/could issues/could issue/
16:37:00 paulc: my action is still pending
16:37:06 ... any more questions?
16:37:32 acolwell: IIRC, you said we need a reference to bugs resolved for LC
16:37:47 q+
16:37:54 paulc: that is the implementation report, and needs to be given separately to the director
16:38:02 ... including how we handled all the LC bugs
16:38:15 ... I was planning to use a bug search
16:38:25 ack adr
16:38:30 acolwell: wanted to make sure there was nothing esle I need to do
16:38:46 adrianba: started putting a summary disposition of comments on the wiki
16:38:55 s/esle/else/
16:39:09 ACTION: Adrian to produce a summary of last positions for LC
16:39:09 Created ACTION-60 - Produce a summary of last positions for lc [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-12-10].
16:39:31 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:39:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:39:39 Zakim, who is here?
16:39:39 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, markw, davide, joesteele, ddorwin, Aaron_Colwell, pal, adrianba, [Microsoft]
16:39:41 On IRC I see jdsmith, markw_, pal, adrianba, acolwell, joesteele, davide, ddorwin, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, glenn, danny_, wseltzer, trackbot
16:39:46 acolwell: nothing more
16:39:58 >CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting candidate draft from Editors
16:40:17 The CfCs are on hold until we dispose of the FILE-API reference question.
16:40:34 -ddorwin
16:40:37 Topic: EME Bugs and Issues
16:40:46 paulc: spec does not appear to have changed sinc ethe 14th
16:40:58 s/sinc ethe/since the/
16:41:10 paulc: can EME editors give an update of bugs from F2F?
16:41:17 q+
16:41:24 ack adrian
16:41:34 adrianba: short summary - no more work has been done
16:41:43 ... David updated the bugs with some of the discussion
16:42:03 +ddorwin
16:42:11 paulc: reasonable to give editors another week or two to catch up?
16:42:25 ... schedule another dual meeting next week?
16:42:35 adrianba: we could discuss EME next week
16:43:01 paulc: would help if by the weekend you could give me some idea of how to organize the discussion
16:43:17 ... touched on a lot but did not make decisions at F2F
16:43:30 ... make a list of bugs to discuss and dispose of
16:44:32 ... use this an the agenda for next weeks discussion
16:44:52 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:44:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:45:11 Zakim, who is here?
16:45:11 On the phone I see paulc, Glenn, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, markw, davide, joesteele, Aaron_Colwell, pal, adrianba, [Microsoft], ddorwin
16:45:13 On IRC I see jdsmith, markw_, pal, adrianba, acolwell, joesteele, davide, ddorwin, pladd, Michael_Thornburgh, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, glenn, danny_, wseltzer, trackbot
16:45:37 ACTION: paulc to work with wendy to make sure we get a security review of EME
16:45:37 Created ACTION-61 - Work with wendy to make sure we get a security review of eme [on Paul Cotton - due 2013-12-10].
16:46:20 paulc: this is the Privacy IG review
16:46:32 ACTION: paulc to report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15
16:46:32 Created ACTION-62 - Report back about the plan for 20944 due 2013-12-15 [on Paul Cotton - due 2013-12-10].
16:46:46 privacy review and security review are separate things
16:47:01 q+
16:47:20 paulc: Privacy IG has an outstanding item to give us a review -- email about this in the archive
16:47:31 ack markw
16:47:33 ... need to find out what the bar is for success
16:47:52 adrianba: think that action was to review the security section - not the privacy review
16:48:12 s/adrianba: think/markw_: think/
16:48:25 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:48:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:48:34 paulc: think that completes the agenda
16:48:46 Topic: Chair and Scribe for next week?
16:49:05 paulc: we will not meet on Dec 24th and 31st
16:49:35 ... meeting on Dec 10th will start with MSE and then move to EME an technical discussions
16:49:51 ... suggest we adjourn
16:50:04 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:50:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:50:04 -pladd
16:50:06 -Glenn
16:50:07 -[Microsoft]
16:50:08 -adrianba
16:50:09