15:21:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:21:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/02-dpub-irc
15:21:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:21:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
15:21:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:21:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes
15:21:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:21:48 <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2013
15:24:11 <walkley> scribe:walkley
15:25:53 <walkley> scribe: walkley
15:47:21 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
15:47:43 <mgylling> mgylling has changed the topic to: Dial-in code: 3782
15:48:04 <mgylling> mgylling has changed the topic to: DPUB IG Dial-in code: 3782
15:50:17 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started
15:50:24 <Zakim> +??P0
15:50:53 <walkley> zakim, +??P0 is walkley
15:50:53 <Zakim> sorry, walkley, I do not recognize a party named '+??P0'
15:51:07 <walkley> zakim, P0 is walkley
15:51:07 <Zakim> sorry, walkley, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
15:53:21 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
15:53:43 <walkley> zakim, ??P0 is walkley
15:53:43 <Zakim> +walkley; got it
15:55:18 <Zakim> + +1.917.207.aaaa
15:55:32 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaaa is dauwhe
15:55:32 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
15:56:11 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:58:04 <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aabb
15:58:09 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #dpub
15:58:11 <astearns> Zakim, aabb is me
15:58:11 <Zakim> +astearns; got it
15:58:43 <Zakim> +??P20
15:58:54 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P20 is mgylling
15:58:54 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
15:59:02 <Zakim> +??P25
15:59:11 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
15:59:56 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
16:00:21 <mgylling> scribe: walkley
16:00:37 <benjaminsko> benjaminsko has joined #dpub
16:00:38 <Zakim> + +1.518.669.aacc
16:01:14 <Zakim> + +329331aadd
16:01:14 <Zakim> + +33.6.48.38.aaee
16:01:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:01:22 <TomDN> Zakim, +32 is me
16:01:22 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
16:01:23 <ivan> zakim, aacc is JeanK
16:01:23 <Zakim> +JeanK; got it
16:01:27 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
16:01:27 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
16:01:33 <mgylling> AOB addition: review of CSS shapes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Nov/0088.html
16:01:33 <ivan> zakim, aaee is laudrain
16:01:33 <Zakim> +laudrain; got it
16:01:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:38 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:38 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
16:01:40 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aaff
16:01:45 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
16:01:51 <TomDN> that is me
16:01:57 <Zakim> +plinss
16:01:58 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
16:01:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see walkley, dauwhe, Ivan, astearns, mgylling, ??P25, JeanK, laudrain, TomDN (muted), fjh, +1.917.447.aaff, plinss
16:01:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, benjaminsko, gcapiel, laudrain, TomDN, fjh, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, Suzanne, ivan, dauwhe, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
16:01:59 <Zakim> + +1.734.904.aagg
16:02:03 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
16:02:03 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
16:02:14 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
16:02:15 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
16:02:26 <ivan> zakim, ??P25 is gcapiel
16:02:26 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
16:02:52 <ivan> zakim, aaff is benjaminsko
16:02:53 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaff is benjaminsko
16:02:53 <Zakim> +benjaminsko; got it
16:02:54 <Zakim> sorry, dauwhe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaff'
16:02:56 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
16:03:48 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:03:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see walkley, dauwhe, Ivan, astearns, mgylling, gcapiel, JeanK, laudrain, TomDN (muted), fjh, benjaminsko, plinss, +1.734.904.aagg
16:03:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, benjaminsko, gcapiel, laudrain, TomDN, fjh, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, Suzanne, ivan, dauwhe, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
16:04:05 <ivan> zakim, aagg is Bill_Kasdorf
16:04:06 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
16:04:13 <Zakim> +Tzviya
16:04:41 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
16:04:44 <walkley> mgylling: a relatively short agenda today, one item of AOB
16:04:50 <JeanK> JeanK has joined #dpub
16:04:51 <Zakim> +madi
16:05:06 <walkley> …which is the request for review of CSS shapes. We will try to volunteer someone for that.
16:05:18 <Zakim> + +1.609.216.aahh
16:05:30 <walkley> mgylling: asked laudrain to give intro
16:05:49 <Sharad> Sharad has joined #dpub
16:05:55 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
16:06:07 <Zakim> +Bert
16:06:07 <walkley> laudrain: 20 years in digital publishing, sgml, xml, now works for Hachette Livre where he is in charge of digital outputs.
16:06:27 <Zakim> +Sharad_Garg
16:06:45 <walkley> …involved in IDPF working groups, metadata in ONIX, RDF, W3C SVG working group
16:07:16 <walkley> mgylling: asked if laudrain is up to date with IG documents
16:07:26 <walkley> laudrain: will get up to speed
16:07:48 <walkley> mgylling: today's call a very good introduction, one of the items is to review task force summaries.
16:08:51 <ivan> zakim, aahh is Laura_Fowler
16:08:51 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler; got it
16:09:23 <walkley> mgylling: last week, no proper minutes as bots weren't working, but text doc at http://www.w3.org/2013/11/dpub-call-minutes-25.txt
16:09:28 <walkley> …any comments?
16:09:45 <walkley> …none, so last week's minutes approved.
16:09:48 <Madi> Madi has joined #dpub
16:10:53 <walkley> mgylling: main topic is organisation/working practices for these calls. But first, Q&A/discussions on TPAC F2F meeting. Any questions/remarks arising from TPAC minutes?
16:10:59 <tzviya> q+
16:11:21 <TomDN> +1 for condensed summary
16:11:22 <mgylling> ack Tzviya
16:11:28 <fjh> +1 for condensed summary
16:11:45 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aaii
16:11:52 <fjh> q+
16:12:00 <walkley> tzviya: one area of confusion… read through the minutes on DRM and clear on the fact that DRM is out of scope for now, but there might have been a discussion on security. What exactly are we calling security at this point?
16:12:11 <Zakim> -Laura_Fowler
16:12:26 <Zakim> +??P61
16:12:29 <mgylling> ack fjh
16:12:42 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler
16:12:43 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
16:12:54 <fjh> q-
16:12:54 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mgylling (20%), laudrain (9%), Bill_Kasdorf (13%), Sharad_Garg (27%)
16:12:56 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
16:12:57 <walkley> fjh: Security threats may arise that need to be addressed.
16:13:11 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?
16:13:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see walkley, dauwhe, Ivan, astearns, mgylling, gcapiel, JeanK, laudrain, TomDN (muted), fjh, benjaminsko, plinss, Bill_Kasdorf, Tzviya, Suzanne_Taylor, madi, Bert,
16:13:12 <Zakim> ... Sharad_Garg, +1.646.336.aaii (muted), ??P61, Laura_Fowler
16:13:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, Madi, Bert, Sharad, JeanK, tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, benjaminsko, gcapiel, laudrain, TomDN, fjh, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, Suzanne, ivan, dauwhe,
16:13:12 <Zakim> ... astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
16:13:46 <walkley> Sharad: many other issues, DRM is a component, has an action item to discuss with fjh. tzviya welcome to contribute.
16:14:20 <tmichel> zakim, ??P6 is tmichel
16:14:20 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
16:15:03 <fjh> s/Security threats may arise that need to be addressed./Use of underlying open web platform technologies may enable security threats that may need to be addressed./
16:15:07 <ivan> Guest: Jullie Morris, BISG
16:15:22 <walkley> mgylling: asked Julie Morris from BISG to introduce herself, trade association for book industry in US
16:16:28 <walkley> mgylling: one other thing, is privacy in scope from a user point of view. Asked fjh and Sharad for view.
16:16:33 <walkley> fjh: should be in scope
16:16:46 <mgylling> q?
16:16:49 <walkley> mgylling: Sharad will be lead on this task force.
16:16:57 <Zakim> -laudrain
16:17:18 <walkley> …Should we produce text summary or refer to minutes?
16:17:48 <walkley> ivan: as we don't use a tracker with actions, having a list of main resolutions might be a good thing. This exists in draft and needs to be cleaned up and posted to mailing list.
16:18:14 <walkley> action: mgylling to produce summary
16:18:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Produce summary [on Markus Gylling - due 2013-12-09].
16:18:26 <walkley> mgylling: any other TPAC questions?
16:18:47 <ivan> Topic: consolidation of task forces
16:18:50 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces
16:19:42 <walkley> ivan: has set up a Wiki page for each task force linked from this table.
16:20:01 <walkley> mgylling: a few of these are new, Page DOM for example.
16:20:34 <walkley> …this is something that came up during TPAC via brady
16:20:45 <Zakim> + +33.1.41.23.aajj
16:21:16 <walkley> …In terms of the fourth column, these task forces won't necessarily use the same method for documentation.
16:21:21 <ivan> zakim, aajj is laudrain
16:21:21 <Zakim> +laudrain; got it
16:21:43 <walkley> …have one example, Latinreq, which has separate document and will eventually have use cases
16:21:57 <walkley> …other groups primarily expected to work on the wiki use case tree
16:22:07 <walkley> …but no problem if a lead wants to move to another form
16:22:45 <walkley> …These activities will deliver on different schedules. At this point we don't see that we will be able to synchronise everyone for January. Some much faster than others.
16:22:59 <walkley> …doesn't quite match how charter predicted work but will have to do best.
16:23:27 <mgylling> q?
16:23:31 <walkley> …have to accept varying deliverable dates. Those are overall comments, thanks to ivan for putting together. Any questions or remarks, including from task force leads.
16:23:56 <walkley> …in terms of recent activities, Bill_Kasdorf...?
16:24:17 <walkley> Bill_Kasdorf: have drafted invitation describing mission of task force and soliciting volunteers, to be circulated after this call.
16:24:30 <walkley> ...Sent to mgylling Madi and ivan for review.
16:24:38 <walkley> ...Takes broad view of metadata
16:25:06 <walkley> …another possible outcome might be determination that issue is broader than this IG.
16:25:20 <walkley> …might be appropriate to consider separate metadata IG.
16:25:36 <walkley> …initial task identifying problems with publisher use of metadata which will be done on wiki.
16:25:52 <mgylling> q?
16:25:59 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata wiki page for the metadata task force
16:26:18 <walkley> mgylling: the next agenda item is MO of the IG calls moving forward
16:26:26 <ivan> Topic: modus operandi moving forward
16:26:38 <walkley> …so far we have been spending calls having status updates from various groups
16:27:21 <walkley> …question is whether we should rethink the way we use our calls and list activity to focus more on specific topics for a larger chunk of time. Of course, other ways as well.
16:27:35 <walkley> …should we give the leads an hour of quality time on their area.
16:27:46 <walkley> Madi: an hour is a very long time.
16:28:05 <fjh> q+
16:28:09 <walkley> …Pearson asks for everything to be justified in ten minutes. Be brief, be brilliant, be gone. How about 30 mins?
16:28:18 <walkley> …two task forces per meeting.
16:28:19 <mgylling> ack fjh
16:28:26 <walkley> fjh: agrees with Madi
16:28:31 <fjh> q-
16:28:45 <walkley> mgylling: suggestion not to make calls longer, but to work on use case development during calls.
16:29:16 <tzviya> q+
16:29:35 <Suzanne> q+
16:29:47 <walkley> …to produce volume of material required will take longer
16:29:56 <mgylling> q?
16:30:02 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:30:14 <walkley> tzviya: notes how long it can take to do the background work.
16:30:17 <Zakim> -plinss
16:30:29 <JeanK> q+
16:30:50 <mgylling> ack Suzanne
16:30:52 <walkley> …sometimes splitting hairs takes longer than one expects. Conversation very informative, discussion very helpful. In favour of greater focus, two topics per call.
16:30:52 <Madi> I must jump off to go to another meeting.
16:31:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:31:18 <mgylling> ack JeanK
16:31:24 <walkley> Suzanne: agreed with that. Thinking about separate meetings for accessibility, but would be great to have more detail in meeting.
16:31:43 <walkley> JeanK: tzviya and I have own working group, research not insignificant, some off-group conversations.
16:32:11 <walkley> …bigger thing is being able to concentrate on 1-2 topics per meeting, would need to come to conclusions more quickly.
16:32:11 <Zakim> -madi
16:32:12 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:32:14 <ivan> q+
16:32:30 <Zakim> +plinss
16:32:48 <walkley> Bill_Kasdorf: related question: understand individual task forces don't have to work same way. Curious as to how many TFs are having off-group calls? General meetings shouldn't be that.
16:33:13 <walkley> …results of task force calls should then be discussed with group as a whole.
16:33:25 <Zakim> -plinss
16:33:25 <TomDN> q+
16:33:29 <dauwhe> q+
16:33:35 <walkley> mgylling: concern about risk for silos to develop off-list. Would be better to do thinking/discovery process on-list.
16:34:05 <TomDN> -q
16:34:06 <mgylling> ack Ivan
16:34:11 <walkley> Bill_Kasdorf: I anticipated most of work done on-list and wiki, and periodic but infrequent TF calls offlist.
16:34:21 <fjh> +1
16:34:42 <dauwhe> q-
16:34:59 <JeanK> +1 to mailing list, but use a prefix in [] to indicate which task force you're discussing specifically.
16:35:05 <TomDN> +1 to what Bill said. this telecon should ideally be used to /present/ the results of the individual TF's work (avoiding large discussion on this call)
16:35:19 <walkley> ivan: Would really like to see discussions done through mailing list, interested to see what is going on in TFs even if cannot contribute, important to know what is happening, also on-list discussions are archived for posterity, might be useful later.
16:35:39 <mgylling> q?
16:35:41 <walkley> …organising with a prefix per TF would be good.
16:36:11 <walkley> s/TF/task force/g
16:36:27 <walkley> mgylling: Many of the task forces would benefit from wider input.
16:36:31 <JeanK> q+
16:36:52 <mgylling> ack JeanK
16:36:54 <walkley> Bill_Kasdorf: what I was implying was to work up issues and present for discussion amongst the wider group
16:37:29 <walkley> Jean: ivan's point came up with overlap between MathML and accessibility. Put everything on list but be clear about topic.
16:38:21 <walkley> mgylling: Could we try this? At least one week in advance, task force would be told they would be up to report and open up for discussion.
16:39:01 <ivan> Let us use: [latinreq] [pdom] [metadata] [adaption] [annotation] [stem] [security] [a11y] [bridge] as mail prefixes
16:39:01 <walkley> …I am interested in trying this. Need to get more discussions started.
16:39:12 <ivan> +1
16:39:13 <TomDN> +1
16:39:15 <walkley> +1
16:39:15 <tzviya> +1
16:39:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:39:29 <walkley> mgylling: Great, let's do so.
16:39:31 <tmichel> +1
16:39:32 <Suzanne> +1
16:39:37 <walkley> …who wants to take first slot next week?
16:39:50 <ivan> RESOLVED: At least one week in advance, task force would be told they would be up to report and open up for discussion
16:40:13 <walkley> …Suggest tzviya and JeanK: if you are interested we could start with you? Okay?
16:40:29 <Zakim> -JeanK
16:40:39 <walkley> tzviya: Can't do next week.
16:40:56 <JeanK> sorry... phone just dropped call...
16:41:07 <walkley> mgylling: Suzanne and gcapiel?
16:41:19 <Zakim> -laudrain
16:41:24 <JeanK> I can do an update on the state of our existing STEM use cases next week, and tell people the direction we are headed in, but not much more.
16:41:35 <walkley> gcapiel: Could have people review the use cases that are out there.
16:41:51 <walkley> Suzanne: lots of people have ideas for use cases but haven't added yet, useful to capture these.
16:41:53 <Zakim> +JeanK
16:42:24 <walkley> mgylling: also have Laura… Laura and Mark interested in semantics
16:42:52 <walkley> Suzanne: once we get use cases, would like to recruit subject-specific folks, but good to get scope established first.
16:43:06 <walkley> resolved: do accessibility next week
16:43:23 <mgylling> q?
16:43:23 <walkley> mgylling: We'll try a couple of calls on this format and then review.
16:43:37 <walkley> mgylling: AOB?
16:43:43 <mgylling>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Nov/0088.html
16:43:50 <ivan> Topic: request from CSS WG
16:43:55 <walkley> …Request from CSS working group to review CSS shapes
16:44:08 <walkley> …Reviewed CSS text a couple of weeks ago
16:44:27 <walkley> …deadline for comment Jan 7th. Any volunteers to take an action to review?
16:44:32 <astearns> q+
16:44:53 <walkley> …would need to be done by Jan 6th 2014.
16:44:57 <mgylling> ack astearns
16:45:21 <walkley> astearns: a bit of background for anyone not familiar, start of css feature that allows one to specify non-rectangular shapes.
16:45:38 <walkley> …allows float around non-rectangular objects.
16:46:00 <walkley> …useful for comments from someone familiar with content wrapping outside web platform
16:46:04 <walkley> mgylling: any takers?
16:46:30 <walkley> …have to take that as a no. Will repeat request for review on mailing list.
16:46:37 <Zakim> +plinss
16:46:46 <walkley> …AOB?
16:47:13 <walkley> Suzanne: just wanted to make sure that anyone who wants to be involved in accessibility task force, let her know or put name on wiki.
16:47:31 <walkley> mgylling: Please repeat that on list as well.
16:47:36 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Accessibility A11y TF Wiki page
16:47:44 <walkley> …I think we're done. Thank you all.
16:47:44 <Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Accessibility
16:47:48 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
16:47:48 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
16:47:56 <Zakim> -TomDN
16:47:57 <Zakim> - +1.646.336.aaii
16:47:57 <Zakim> -Tzviya
16:47:57 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
16:47:57 <Zakim> -dauwhe
16:47:58 <Zakim> -astearns
16:47:58 <Zakim> -gcapiel
16:47:59 <Zakim> -fjh
16:47:59 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
16:48:00 <Zakim> -Laura_Fowler
16:48:02 <Zakim> -JeanK
16:48:04 <Zakim> -plinss
16:48:08 <Zakim> -Sharad_Garg
16:48:20 <Zakim> -Bert
16:48:43 <Zakim> -walkley
16:48:55 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
16:48:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, mgylling, Suzanne_Taylor, tmichel
16:48:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, Bert, Sharad, fjh, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, Suzanne, ivan, dauwhe, astearns, liam, trackbot, plinss
16:48:57 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
16:54:33 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #dpub
16:55:45 <Suzanne> ivan  - would you be able to share laura fowler's email with me? I want to write and see who from ETS might be planning to join the accessibility taskforce
16:56:02 <tmichel> tmichel I am here ...
17:02:13 <Suzanne> thx much!
17:02:25 <Zakim> -mgylling
17:04:13 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:04:19 <ivan> suzanne: lfowler@ets.org
17:04:43 <Suzanne> thx
17:04:43 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/02-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
17:09:13 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM
17:09:14 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended
17:09:14 <Zakim> Attendees were walkley, +1.917.207.aaaa, dauwhe, Ivan, +1.206.675.aabb, astearns, mgylling, +1.518.669.aacc, +329331aadd, +33.6.48.38.aaee, TomDN, JeanK, laudrain, fjh,
17:09:14 <Zakim> ... +1.917.447.aaff, plinss, +1.734.904.aagg, gcapiel, benjaminsko, Bill_Kasdorf, Tzviya, Suzanne_Taylor, madi, +1.609.216.aahh, Bert, Sharad_Garg, Laura_Fowler, +1.646.336.aaii,
17:09:15 <Zakim> ... tmichel, +33.1.41.23.aajj
17:09:17 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
17:42:27 <dauwhe_> dauwhe_ has joined #dpub
17:46:01 <Bert> Bert has left #dpub
17:51:39 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #dpub
18:55:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dpub
22:04:55 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #dpub