IRC log of webtv on 2013-11-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:55:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:56:07 [jcverdie]
Zakim, this is Web&TV Media API
13:56:07 [Zakim]
sorry, jcverdie, I do not see a conference named 'Web&TV Media API' in progress or scheduled at this time
13:56:33 [jcverdie]
Zakim, this is WebTV1
13:56:33 [Zakim]
jcverdie, I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be WebTV1".
13:56:40 [jcverdie]
Zakim, this will be WebTV1
13:56:40 [Zakim]
ok, jcverdie; I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:48 [igarashi]
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13:57:06 [skim13]
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13:57:19 [jcverdie]
agenda+ minute-taker
13:57:31 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:57:31 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:57:32 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has now started
13:57:34 [Zakim]
13:57:36 [jcverdie]
agenda+ resolve ? in
13:57:48 [jcverdie]
agenda+ review and assign tasks in
13:57:50 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:57:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kazuyuki
13:57:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see skim13, igarashi, RRSAgent, Zakim, whyun, jcverdie, sangwhan, timeless, kaz, glenn_, schuki, trackbot
13:58:05 [jcverdie]
agenda+ new template
13:58:41 [yosuke]
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13:58:49 [ddavis]
ddavis has joined #webtv
13:59:37 [Zakim]
14:00:05 [Zakim]
14:00:06 [Zakim]
14:00:14 [Zakim]
14:00:16 [Zakim]
14:00:29 [kaz]
zakim, ??P12 is igarashi
14:00:29 [Zakim]
+igarashi; got it
14:00:43 [Zakim]
14:00:46 [ddavis]
zakim, ??P13 is me
14:00:46 [Zakim]
+ddavis; got it
14:00:51 [kaz]
zakim, IPcaller is skim13
14:00:51 [Zakim]
+skim13; got it
14:01:03 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
14:01:03 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
14:01:34 [ddavis]
zakim, who's here
14:01:34 [Zakim]
ddavis, you need to end that query with '?'
14:01:37 [ddavis]
zakim, who's here?
14:01:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Jean-Charles, igarashi, skim13, ddavis (muted)
14:01:39 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ddavis, yosuke, skim13, igarashi, RRSAgent, Zakim, whyun, jcverdie, sangwhan, timeless, kaz, glenn_, schuki, trackbot
14:01:42 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Jean-Charles, igarashi, skim13, ddavis (muted)
14:01:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ddavis, yosuke, skim13, igarashi, RRSAgent, Zakim, whyun, jcverdie, sangwhan, timeless, kaz, glenn_, schuki, trackbot
14:02:04 [kaz]
Meeting: Web and TV IG - Media APIs TF Call
14:02:16 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:02:21 [kaz]
Present: Kaz, JC, Igarashi, Skim, Daniel
14:02:42 [jcverdie]
can anyone hear me ? I can't hear anyone
14:03:05 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:03:19 [jcverdie]
14:03:36 [ddavis]
Meeting: Web and TV IG - Media APIs Task Force call
14:03:45 [ddavis]
scribenick: ddavis
14:03:49 [kaz]
14:03:54 [Zakim]
14:03:55 [ddavis]
Topic: Gap Analysis
14:04:05 [kaz]
zakim, IPcaller is yosuke
14:04:05 [Zakim]
+yosuke; got it
14:05:21 [ddavis]
jcverdie: For the NSD spec, the Tuner Control can probably be changed to a red cross
14:05:24 [ddavis]
+1 from me
14:05:30 [Zakim]
14:05:42 [Louay]
Louay has joined #webtv
14:06:03 [kaz]
zakim, ??P18 is louay
14:06:03 [Zakim]
+louay; got it
14:06:15 [jcverdie]
any other opinion about a red cross for tuner control, and go ahead w/ a CG ?
14:06:17 [ddavis]
jcverdie: At TPAC we discussed that this is specific enough to probably have its own community group.
14:06:24 [kaz]
-> Google doc
14:06:35 [ddavis]
14:06:39 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
14:06:39 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
14:06:42 [jcverdie]
ack dd
14:07:18 [kaz]
14:07:35 [ddavis]
ddavis: There didn't seem to be any objections at TPAC so I'm happy to change this.
14:08:07 [ddavis]
kaz: I'm fine with moving ahead and generating a small spec in a CG. But do we really want to do that? Is there a possibility to bring this to other working groups?
14:08:15 [ddavis]
kaz: Maybe we could double check.
14:08:30 [ddavis]
jcverdie: OK, we could, but which groups could take this?
14:08:45 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Probably, none of these groups have this in their charter.
14:08:51 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Do you have a group in mind?
14:08:59 [ddavis]
kaz: Yes, Device APIs or SysApps.
14:09:12 [ddavis]
jcverdie: We could ask the group chairs about this.
14:09:39 [ddavis]
kaz: During TPAC, we talked about creating CGs for small specs with the IG chairs.
14:10:06 [ddavis]
kaz: The CGs would have to cooperate with existing groups such as HTML WG, Device APIs, SysApps, etc. as well as TV IG.
14:10:55 [ddavis]
kaz: The chair of the CG would have to talk to the other groups and ask for comments. Collaboration is key.
14:11:06 [ddavis]
jcverdie: So this is a topic for the moderators and chairs.
14:11:24 [ddavis]
jcverdie: If we contact the Device APIs or SysApps group, or whether we create a new CG.
14:11:31 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I can contact them.
14:11:52 [jcverdie]
14:11:56 [jcverdie]
ack kaz
14:11:58 [kaz]
ack k
14:12:22 [ddavis]
ACTION: jcverdie to contact the TV IG chairs about whether Tuner Control should have its own Community Group or be part of an existing group, such as Device APIs or SysApps
14:12:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-175 - Contact the tv ig chairs about whether tuner control should have its own community group or be part of an existing group, such as device apis or sysapps [on Jean-Charles Verdie - due 2013-12-04].
14:12:33 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Moving on to WebRTC
14:13:06 [ddavis]
jcverdie: As Giri is not here, let's ping him offline.
14:13:08 [kaz]
Present+ Louay
14:14:13 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:14:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Jean-Charles, igarashi, skim13, ddavis, yosuke, louay
14:14:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Louay, ddavis, yosuke, skim13, igarashi, RRSAgent, Zakim, whyun, jcverdie, sangwhan, timeless, kaz, glenn_, schuki, trackbot
14:14:19 [ddavis]
jcverdie: For File API, skim13 is here. Can you tell us more about Device-to-device content transfer?
14:14:31 [kaz]
Present+ WHyun
14:14:32 [ddavis]
skim13: I wasn't sure of the relevance of this requirement to File API.
14:14:44 [ddavis]
skim: There seem to be some design and scope issues.
14:14:51 [ddavis]
14:15:06 [ddavis]
skim13: For this use case we need to consider two types of content transfer.
14:15:45 [ddavis]
skim13: For URL transfer, it doesn't affect File API but it's transfer of the content itself then it could be relevant. I wasn't sure whether to put a "?" or leave it blank.
14:15:57 [ddavis]
s/but it/but if it/
14:16:27 [ddavis]
skim13: You can share the file using e.g. WebSockets, so there might not be any connection with File API.
14:16:30 [whyun]
Kaz, I'm not with skim13, and struggling to connect with IP phone
14:16:54 [ddavis]
skim13: For general protection, it's not relevant to File API but if it's content protection it could be relevant.
14:17:09 [ddavis]
skim13: The same for media content protection offline too.
14:17:21 [jcverdie]
14:18:23 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I would consider only the transfer of content, not URLs so I would put a green box there.
14:18:31 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I have no strong opinion about the other ones.
14:18:53 [ddavis]
jcverdie: For content streaming, I would leave it blank. It can be covered by WebRTC or other groups.
14:19:06 [ddavis]
jcverdie: And the same for content protection.
14:19:47 [ddavis]
ddavis: I'd agree for content protection, probably content streaming as well.
14:19:59 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Let's see what other people say as well when they read the minutes.
14:20:29 [ddavis]
skim13: For File API Writer, the relevancy is the same for content transfer.
14:20:42 [ddavis]
skim13: Also for content protection, similarly, it's not relevant.
14:21:29 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Thank you. Anything to add, anybody?
14:21:46 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Next, IndexedDB API
14:21:57 [ddavis]
Louay: We have a lot of question marks.
14:22:18 [ddavis]
Louay: The issue is about storage capability in general. It depends on the requirements.
14:22:38 [ddavis]
Louay: It's not clear from the requirements if there's the need to store information in the local db or not, hence the "?"
14:22:52 [ddavis]
Louay: If it's needed to store content here, we can switch it to green.
14:23:43 [jcverdie]
requirement discussed:
14:23:49 [ddavis]
Louay: I think for content download, IndexedDB can also link with the File API, so we need IndexedDB API here.
14:24:16 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I agree with you - it's not very clear whether we have to store something in a db or not.
14:24:19 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
14:24:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:24:25 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I think we need to refine the requirement.
14:24:43 [ddavis]
jcverdie: It's the same for the service synchronisation.
14:24:52 [kaz]
Chair: JC
14:24:55 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:25:04 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I don't remember who put this requirement in but we'll have to find the originator and ask them to refine it.
14:25:10 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
14:25:10 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
14:25:21 [ddavis]
jcverdie: The other was device authentication mechanism.
14:26:11 [ddavis]
Louay: We could use IndexedDB for storing some authentication info, but I think the Web Crypto API is more relevant.
14:26:28 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I agree. Any other opinions?
14:26:38 [ddavis]
jcverdie: No objections so we can remove the "?" and proceed.
14:26:46 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Next is payments.
14:27:13 [ddavis]
Louay: This is similar to authentication mechanism.
14:27:28 [ddavis]
Louay: If we need to store data in a db then it's relevant.
14:27:49 [ddavis]
jcverdie: There's a new group called Web Payments so we should contact them to consider our requirements, therefore it should be a separate column.
14:27:58 [ddavis]
Louay: Agreed.
14:28:22 [ddavis]
Louay: Content download is "yes" because you can use File API to store the data, but you also have metadata which can be stored in IndexedDB.
14:29:03 [ddavis]
Louay: Content recording while watching is the same.
14:29:13 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Good, so we're left with the two question marks.
14:29:24 [ddavis]
jcverdie: For these, we need to refine the requirements.
14:30:06 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Next let's do Web Crypto by Yosuke.
14:30:56 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think to remove the two question marks we need to refine the requirements.
14:31:09 [ddavis]
yosuke: The authentication requirements are quite vague - not so clear.
14:31:51 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Your suggestion is to go back to the requirements and make them clearer?
14:31:53 [ddavis]
yosuke: Yes.
14:32:15 [jcverdie]
14:32:33 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Looking at the API requirement, I agree it's difficult.
14:33:11 [jcverdie]
ACTION: jcverdie to contact moderators to discuss the 4 reqs which are unclear
14:33:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-176 - Contact moderators to discuss the 4 reqs which are unclear [on Jean-Charles Verdie - due 2013-12-04].
14:33:19 [ddavis]
jcverdie: OK, let's move on...
14:33:24 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:33:30 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:33:33 [igarashi]
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14:33:35 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:33:57 [ddavis]
Topic: Try to assign Service Worker, HTML 5 and HTML 5.1.
14:34:04 [kaz]
14:34:47 [ddavis]
Louay: I can do Service Worker.
14:35:22 [ddavis]
jcverdie: It's not really clear what we need to do for HTML5 and HTML 5.1
14:35:29 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
14:35:29 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
14:36:38 [ddavis]
ddavis: My feeling is that they're not really relevant. They were included because they're broad specs but probably they don't cover our requirements after all.
14:36:43 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:36:46 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
14:36:46 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
14:36:50 [kaz]
14:36:54 [jcverdie]
ack kaz
14:37:26 [ddavis]
kaz: Service Worker is related to SysApps work on application lifecycle. I think that's also related to MMI group's application lifecycle.
14:37:40 [ddavis]
kaz: Maybe I can work with Louay and Ansi from Intel about this.
14:37:50 [ddavis]
kaz: You mean working with SysApps?
14:37:57 [ddavis]
14:38:24 [ddavis]
kaz: This is not directly related to HTML5 markup but related to the new idea of application lifecycle, owned by Ansi from Intel, etc.
14:38:31 [ddavis]
jcverdie: So maybe we should add a column.
14:38:35 [ddavis]
kaz: Yes, I think so.
14:38:46 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Let's do it for SysApps. Can I assign it to you?
14:39:01 [ddavis]
kaz: Maybe we can add other columns after Louay and maybe I can help him.
14:39:21 [jcverdie]
14:39:22 [ddavis]
jcverdie: So Louay will start with Service Worker and kaz will add SysApps later if needed.
14:39:32 [kaz]
14:39:33 [Louay]
I agree
14:39:38 [jcverdie]
next agendum
14:39:56 [ddavis]
Topic: New template for use cases
14:40:10 [ddavis]
jcverdie: At TPAC we talked about our use cases being lost when we end this work.
14:40:25 [ddavis]
jcverdie: The way we store the use cases in the wiki is not appropriate for finding the information in the future.
14:40:31 [ddavis]
jcverdie: There's a link above.
14:40:44 [ddavis]
jcverdie: The idea is to have a use case next to a name
14:41:00 [ddavis]
jcverdie: @@@ - (naughty word because it didn't work)
14:41:10 [ddavis]
jcverdie: It worked yesterday
14:41:46 [ddavis]
jcverdie: OK, I'll try to find the page again and send it to the public group.
14:42:03 [ddavis]
jcverdie: The idea was to have each use case on a separate place and their requirements listed as well.
14:42:26 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Also, to have information about the outcome, so in future we can refer to a use case and see what happened with it.
14:42:32 [ddavis]
jcverdie: It should make more sense.
14:42:54 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Well that was quick!
14:43:04 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Any other business to discuss while we're here?
14:43:26 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
14:43:26 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
14:43:34 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Not hearing anything so we can adjourn the meeting.
14:43:50 [kaz]
14:43:57 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Just a reminder - we wanted to end this TF by TPAC. We missed that but we want to finish everything before the end of the year.
14:44:11 [ddavis]
jcverdie: So we should have the opportunity to review everything by the time of our next call.
14:44:26 [ddavis]
jcverdie: If this is not possible for you, please let me, Bin or Olivier know so we can re-assing.
14:44:33 [ddavis]
14:44:49 [ddavis]
kaz: The Testing TF has finished their work so we can use their slot for this work if necessary.
14:44:57 [ddavis]
kaz: In other words, weekly.
14:45:13 [ddavis]
jcverdie: We could try it.
14:45:37 [ddavis]
jcverdie: If we see from the gap analysis that there is not enough progress, we could cancel the meeting.
14:45:50 [kaz]
ack k
14:45:55 [ddavis]
Confirmation : There will be a call at this time next week (Wednesday)
14:46:00 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Nothing else?
14:46:41 [ddavis]
jcverdie: OK, thank you, meeting adjourned.
14:46:42 [jcverdie]
thanks daniel
14:46:45 [Zakim]
14:46:47 [Zakim]
14:46:48 [Zakim]
14:46:49 [jcverdie]
for scribing so well :D
14:46:51 [Zakim]
14:46:53 [Zakim]
14:46:54 [Zakim]
14:46:55 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended
14:46:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kazuyuki, Jean-Charles, igarashi, ddavis, skim13, yosuke, louay
14:46:55 [skim13]
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14:47:40 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:47:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
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