15:59:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
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15:59:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:59:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:59:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:59:23 <trackbot> Date: 27 November 2013
15:59:33 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0020
15:59:40 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0020
15:59:45 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:59:49 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:59:54 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/27-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:00:11 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #forms
16:00:14 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:00:24 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
16:00:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
16:00:26 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:00:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:34 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:00:34 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:00:50 <Zakim> +??P9
16:00:55 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:00:55 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:01:10 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
16:01:33 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:03:55 <Zakim> +unl
16:04:07 <Steven> Topic: Report on XForms Symposium Amsterdam, 22 Nov 2013
16:04:07 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0013.html
16:04:29 <Steven> Steven: About 25 people were there, Dutch language
16:04:41 <Steven> ... several high pointsx
16:04:44 <Steven> s/x//
16:04:56 <Steven> ... was v successful
16:05:09 <Steven> ... nice to see Nick's implementation running on an iphone
16:05:25 <Steven> Topic: Minor editorial change: "XForms Processor"
16:05:25 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0016.html
16:06:25 <Steven> Steven: I think you were right not to link all 91 occurrences
16:07:17 <Steven> Erik: Don't know why the diff doesn't work
16:07:36 <Steven> Nick: maybe a timeout in the diff process.
16:07:47 <Steven> ... we have a really big page.
16:08:00 <Steven> Topic: Moved dialog events
16:08:00 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0017.html
16:08:43 <Steven> Erik: Ther eis more work left for the dialog events
16:08:52 <Steven> s/ eis/e is/
16:09:01 <Steven> Nick: I'm planning to do it.
16:09:13 <Steven> Topic: Remove requirement that context item be a node
16:09:13 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0018.html
16:09:33 <Steven> Erik: Fairly straight forward
16:09:40 <Steven> s/ f/f/
16:10:00 <Steven> Erik: There was some text not compatible with XPath 2
16:11:41 <Steven> ... there were 4 places with the same big chunk of text, which I just removed
16:11:53 <Steven> ... (see the diff)
16:13:00 <Steven> Nick: there may be impact on other places.
16:13:10 <Steven> Erik: There might be; I didn't check section 4.
16:14:39 <Steven> ... there are 39 occurrences that may still need to be changed.
16:17:27 <Steven> Nick: [uses an example from linking error events]
16:18:30 <Steven> Erik: I would rather use the model attribute
16:18:37 <Steven> Nick: But that is not how it is specified
16:18:43 <Steven> Erik: Perhaps we should change it
16:19:25 <ebruchez> Current text: "To rebuild a model other than the one associated with the in-scope evaluation context node, the model attribute from the Common group can be used since it changes the in-scope evaluation context node."
16:19:41 <Steven> Erik: In XForms 1.1 saying that you use model related to the current context node
16:20:04 <Steven> ... is no longer entirely true
16:20:11 <Steven> ... because of variables
16:20:28 <nvdbleek> <xf:var name="my-var" value="foo" model="model-2"/>
16:20:49 <nvdbleek> <xf:repeat ref="$my-var" model="model-1">
16:21:09 <Steven> Erik: If we need to identify an implicit model, the spec says how to do that, but it would be easier to use static definitions
16:21:12 <nvdbleek> <!-- inscope model is model-2 NOT model-1 -->
16:21:13 <Steven> ... such as @model
16:21:57 <nvdbleek> <xf:var name="my-var" value="foo" model="model-2"/>
16:21:58 <nvdbleek> <xf:repeat ref="$my-var" model="model-1">
16:21:59 <nvdbleek>   <!-- inscope model is model-2 NOT model-1 -->
16:21:59 <nvdbleek> </xf:repeat>
16:22:32 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:22:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/27-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:23:29 <Steven> Steven: If this is going to be a problem we definitely need a proposal to fix it
16:23:35 <Steven> Erik: I can write a proposal
16:24:08 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to propose how to fix the implicit model identification with context nodes
16:24:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1959 - Propose how to fix the implicit model identification with context nodes [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-12-04].
16:24:19 <nvdbleek> Eriks dynamic inscope model example:
16:24:26 <nvdbleek> <xf:var name="node-model1" value="foo" model="model-1"/>
16:24:27 <nvdbleek> <xf:var name="node-model2" value="foo" model="model-2"/>
16:24:29 <nvdbleek> <xf:var name="my-var" value="if (foo = 'bar') then $node-model1 else node-model2" model="model-2"/>
16:24:30 <nvdbleek> <xf:repeat ref="$my-var" model="model-3">
16:24:31 <nvdbleek>   <!-- inscope model is either model-1 or model-2 depending on the value of node 'foo' -->
16:24:32 <nvdbleek> </xf:repeat>
16:25:14 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1868 - Bruchez to summarize problems with error handling and
16:25:14 <Steven> three options for variable type handling
16:25:14 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Nov/0015.html
16:25:32 <Steven> Erik: I'm done with the error handling
16:26:13 <Steven> ... with two that do still stop processing.
16:26:45 <Steven> ... * xforms-compute-exception
16:28:25 <Steven> ... I changed the *must* to a *should* since we describe what to do if it is not the case.
16:29:15 <Steven> Steven: Does anyone here implement @funtions?
16:29:21 <Steven> s/fun/sunc/
16:29:26 <Steven> s/sunc/func/
16:29:55 <Steven> Erik: It was in 1.1
16:30:02 <Steven> Nick: Therefore there was an implementation
16:30:49 <Steven> Steven: It's there to warn a processor about what the needs are.
16:31:01 <Steven> s/are./of a form are./
16:31:15 <Steven> Nick: The links to the implementation reports are broken!
16:31:22 <Steven> Steven: Oh. That's bad.
16:31:22 <nvdbleek> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/
16:31:47 <nvdbleek> eg: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2008/XForms11ImplReports/UbiquityIE7/ResultsTable.html
16:32:21 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2008/XForms11ImplReports/UbiquityIE7/
16:33:16 <Steven> Access problems with this: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2008/XForms11ImplReports/EMC/ResultsTable.html
16:33:22 <unl> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2008/XForms11ImplReports/results.htm
16:34:25 <Steven> There is a test they all passed: 7.12a
16:35:31 <Steven> Nick: The test says that a forms-compute-exception must be given
16:35:37 <Steven> Erik: So they did implement that.
16:36:14 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to fix broken links to test reports
16:36:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1960 - Fix broken links to test reports [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-12-04].
16:37:34 <Steven> Erik: So should we just leave this? It's not very useful. A related point is xforms-binding-exception
16:38:14 <Steven> Steven: Link?
16:38:19 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#conform-levels-full
16:38:55 <nvdbleek> notes that all the implementation reports are still on the w3c server (at least in CVS), but I have no idea what is wrong with the access rights
16:38:59 <Steven> Steven: Why on earth did we decide to disallow groups?
16:39:06 <Steven> Erik: Don't know.
16:39:57 <Steven> Erik: Group, switch and repeat are optional
16:41:08 <Steven> Erik: I think this section doesn't make sense any more.
16:42:33 <Steven> Erik: There may be some reason to keep the "model" conformance level, but if we keep it, "full" should make everything required
16:44:17 <Steven> ... but in any case we can get rid of the reuirement to dispatch "xforms-binding-exception" if you don't implement parts.
16:44:28 <Steven> Steven: I agree
16:44:42 <Steven> s/eru/requ/
16:45:02 <Steven> Erik: If there is anything that makes sense, it is not to require schema support.
16:45:47 <Steven> Steven: Let's make a proposal
16:46:13 <Steven> ... 1. Drop the 'should's from full, and make everything required
16:46:25 <Steven> ... 2. Keep 'model' conformance
16:46:43 <Steven> ... 3. Add 'basic' conformance, which just makes schemas optional;
16:47:12 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms-basic/
16:49:15 <Steven> Steven: http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#fn-property
16:49:28 <Steven> ... has "full" and "basic" but not "model"
16:51:57 <Steven> Steven: Proposal:
16:52:04 <Steven> ... 1. Drop the 'should's from full, and make everything required
16:52:15 <Steven> ... 2. Add 'basic' conformance, which just makes schemas optional;
16:52:23 <Steven> ... 3. Keep 'model' conformance
16:52:40 <Steven> ... 4. Add "model" as a level to http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#fn-property
16:52:51 <Steven> Steven: Objections?
16:53:46 <Steven> Nick: What about the repeat-* attributes
16:53:51 <Steven> Erik: They are not required.
16:53:58 <Steven> ... but optional
16:55:50 <Steven> Steven: "The XForms Processor must process all Schemas listed in this attribute."
16:56:07 <Steven> ... thats on @schema on model.
16:56:25 <Steven> ... so it does say "must"
16:57:29 <Steven> RESOLUTION: 1. Drop the 'should's from full, and make everything required
16:57:29 <Steven> 	 	... 2. Add 'basic' conformance, which just makes schemas optional;
16:57:29 <Steven> 	 	... 3. Keep 'model' conformance
16:57:29 <Steven> 		... 4. Add "model" as a level to http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#fn-property
16:58:10 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to implement the conformance level resolution agreed 2013-11-27
16:58:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1961 - Implement the conformance level resolution agreed 2013-11-27 [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-12-04].
16:58:31 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:58:34 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
16:58:36 <Zakim> -unl
16:58:36 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
16:58:38 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:58:39 <Zakim> -Steven
16:58:40 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:58:40 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], Steven, nvdbleek, ebruchez, unl
16:58:48 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/27-forms-minutes.html Steven
18:25:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #forms