14:53:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
14:53:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-eval-irc
14:54:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:54:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eval
14:54:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
14:54:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:03 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
14:54:03 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2013
14:54:58 <shadi> zakim, this is eval
14:54:58 <Zakim> shadi, I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be eval".
14:57:52 <Vivienne> Vivienne has joined #eval
14:58:31 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
14:58:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:36 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #eval
14:58:40 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is me
14:58:40 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
14:58:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:57 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:58:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:58 <Vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:58:58 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
14:59:15 <richard> richard has joined #eval
14:59:36 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
14:59:42 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
15:00:14 <Zakim> + +1.978.899.aaaa
15:00:33 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, mute me
15:00:33 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:00:44 <MoeKraft> Zakim , aaa is MoeKraft
15:00:47 <shadi> scribe: MoeKraft
15:00:50 <Zakim> + +44.179.281.aabb
15:00:53 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #eval
15:00:55 <MoeKraft> Zakim , aaaa is MoeKraft
15:01:18 <MoeKraft> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:18 <Zakim> +MoeKraft; got it
15:01:28 <Zakim> +Detlev
15:02:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:34 <shadi> zakim, aabb is Gavin
15:02:34 <Zakim> +Gavin; got it
15:03:02 <richard> zakim, ipcaller is me
15:03:02 <Zakim> +richard; got it
15:04:14 <Detlev> zakim, mute me
15:04:14 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:04:17 <shadi> scribe: richard
15:04:23 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #eval
15:04:38 <richard> Shadi - some new people
15:04:41 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see shadi, Vivienne, MartijnHoutepen (muted), Kathy_Wahlbin, MoeKraft, Gavin, Detlev (muted), richard
15:05:51 <richard> Gavin is from wales and works on accessibility issues with local authorities etc
15:05:55 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #eval
15:05:57 <shadi> Topic: Introductions
15:06:02 <MartijnHoutepen> ack me
15:06:03 <agarrison> Will join in 2 mins
15:06:44 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, mute me
15:06:44 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:06:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:08 <agarrison> IP caller is me
15:07:30 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, IPcaller is agarrison
15:07:30 <Zakim> +agarrison; got it
15:07:42 <Detlev> ack me
15:08:42 <Detlev> zakim, mute me
15:08:42 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:10:24 <shadi> Topic: Updated Working Draft
15:10:24 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology/
15:12:13 <richard> shadi: hopefully this will be the last draft. We need to get this document reviewed by various working groups so I hiope we can do a survey
15:12:36 <richard> The first few sections of teh draft are more or less stable
15:13:00 <richard> The last section (performance evaluation) we are still working on
15:13:36 <richard> Our goal is to get it together by next week so that we can review in paralel wirth the working groups
15:14:23 <MartijnHoutepen> q+
15:14:37 <MartijnHoutepen> ack me
15:14:58 <richard> We will be looking at Abstract, Introduction, Use and Scope
15:15:37 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131111#abstract
15:15:38 <richard> Martijn: Some of the language is a litte hard to understand - can someone with good English go through it
15:17:27 <Detlev> q+
15:17:40 <richard> Martin: Sentences tend to have too many points in them
15:18:21 <richard> Vivienne: Perhaps better use of comas and simplification
15:18:52 <Vivienne> sorry Richard, that wasn't me
15:19:05 <Vivienne> q+
15:19:11 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, mute me
15:19:11 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:19:25 <richard> Moe: I can help with reviewing
15:19:44 <Detlev> ack me
15:21:43 <richard> Detlev: Perhaps just first sentence needs review. I think we need extra text for dynamic states and for mobile techniques?
15:22:23 <richard> Shadi: Editorial - I like it when people start nit-picking - it means we are making progress
15:23:04 <Detlev> I can submit a paragraph on page states...
15:23:06 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/
15:23:06 <richard> Sgahdi: Second point re mobile - we have added some guidance, but we need to look at this more carefully and we are working on it.
15:24:23 <richard> Shadi: WCAG has launched a mobile task force - Kathy is facilitator, we do need to cover it as far as we can
15:25:00 <Detlev> zakim, mute me
15:25:00 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:26:00 <richard> Kathy: Task force for mobile techniques starts next week. Going to collect resources for mobile. Goal to write techniques for mobile accessibiliy
15:26:05 <Detlev> Kathy can you repeat the time of the call of mobile-a11y TF?
15:26:17 <richard> Kathy also at applications as well as web-sites
15:26:54 <richard> Kathy: Not juts techniques for WCAG, but also design
15:27:23 <shadi> Tuesday 9am US Eastern, 3pm CET, 2pm UK
15:27:43 <Detlev> Thanks Shadi!
15:28:12 <richard> Kathy:Responsive design - I will have a look and send some suggestions, how to pick pages etc.
15:28:37 <Vivienne> q-
15:29:49 <richard> Topic: Introduction
15:29:54 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131111#introduction
15:30:40 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131111#context
15:31:03 <richard> Shadi: Trying to frame overall document, what it does and does not provide. Importance is relations with WCAG
15:31:36 <Detlev> yes
15:31:43 <richard> Shadi: Relatons to WCAG Conformance Claim
15:32:42 <Detlev> sounds great to me!
15:33:05 <shadi> good to know!
15:33:10 <Detlev>  I also think "guidance on evaluating the extent of conformance of websites" in the abstract just about nails it.
15:33:38 <Vivienne> q+
15:33:50 <shadi> ack viv
15:34:35 <richard> Vivienne: Second para - perhaps a bit stilted
15:34:43 <Detlev> ...leads to...
15:35:09 <Tim> Tim has joined #eval
15:36:40 <richard> Shadi: Need to think more about that - can Vivienne send ideas?
15:37:07 <richard> Vivienne: I will send some editorial suggestions over the weekend
15:37:22 <Detlev> zakim, mute me
15:37:22 <Zakim> Detlev was already muted, Detlev
15:38:24 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131111#usage
15:38:29 <richard> Topic: Using teh methodology
15:39:15 <agarrison> q+
15:39:16 <Vivienne> q+
15:39:59 <shadi> ack agga
15:40:05 <shadi> ack aga
15:40:10 <richard> Shadi:Hopefull this is not a controversial section
15:41:42 <richard> Shadi: The output shoudl be a report on how well the site perfomes - not a simple pass/fail
15:42:07 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
15:43:40 <richard> agarrison: Try to get all the ideas cohesive.
15:46:00 <Detlev> q+
15:46:39 <Vivienne> ack me
15:48:09 <richard> Vivienne: First sentence - conformance - not talking about total conformance, would prefer a statement to effect WEM would report on the level of accessibility
15:49:30 <richard> Shadi: Maybe less is more. We want to say that WEM is a more thorough process
15:49:53 <Detlev> ack me
15:51:30 <richard> Detlev: Is extent of conformance absolute (100%)? Maybe better to say guidance on level of compliance. We know that it is rare for any site to fully conform
15:53:12 <richard> Shadi: Alistair - can you identify areas you want action on?
15:53:16 <Detlev> zakim, mute me
15:53:16 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:53:51 <richard> Action: agarrison to submit comments
15:53:51 <trackbot> Error finding 'agarrison'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/track/users>.
15:54:24 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131111#applicability
15:54:37 <MoeKraft> q+
15:54:45 <richard> Topic: Scope of Applicability
15:54:56 <Kathy> q+
15:55:36 <richard> Shadi: which sort of website this applies to
15:56:24 <shadi> ack moe
15:56:59 <Kathy> q-
15:58:35 <richard> Shadi: Please have a more detailed look at these 4 section this week
15:59:10 <richard> Shadi: Volunteers welcome to undertake more detailed look at a particular section.
15:59:21 <gavinevans> gavinevans has joined #eval
15:59:29 <richard> Any volunteers ?
15:59:54 <Detlev> will send stuff on selecting page states - I must leave now, sorry! Detlev
16:00:04 <Zakim> -Detlev
16:00:09 <Vivienne> I'm happy to take a section
16:00:10 <richard> Moe: I will take scope of applicability
16:00:57 <richard> Kathy: I will wait to see what is left
16:01:17 <richard> Kathy: I will look at abstract
16:01:43 <MoeKraft> q+
16:01:54 <Vivienne> I'll look at the Relation to WCAG 2.0 Conformance Claims
16:03:10 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
16:03:51 <richard> Shadi: Lets try to get a wiki going. I will send round details
16:05:22 <MartijnHoutepen> bye
16:05:24 <Vivienne> good night.
16:05:24 <Zakim> -agarrison
16:05:26 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
16:05:26 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:05:27 <Zakim> -Gavin
16:05:27 <Zakim> -MartijnHoutepen
16:05:29 <Zakim> -shadi
16:05:33 <Zakim> -Vivienne
16:05:33 <richard> bye
16:06:00 <Zakim> -richard
16:06:01 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
16:06:01 <Zakim> Attendees were shadi, Vivienne, MartijnHoutepen, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.978.899.aaaa, +44.179.281.aabb, MoeKraft, Detlev, Gavin, richard, agarrison, Tim_Boland
16:06:24 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:06:24 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:06:24 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-eval-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:33 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-eval-actions.rdf :
16:06:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: agarrison to submit comments [1]
16:06:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-eval-irc#T15-53-51