IRC log of site-design on 2013-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:27:25 [RRSAgent]
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08:27:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to
08:28:03 [MarkS]
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08:28:05 [Ian]
rrsagent, make minutes
08:28:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ian
08:28:08 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
08:28:38 [Zakim]
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08:28:52 [ddavis]
Chair: Ian
08:29:17 [brett]
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08:29:34 [Jean-Gui]
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08:29:58 [ddavis]
Ian: Background info first....
08:30:32 [ddavis]
Ian: We last designed the W3C site in 2008. A lot has changed then since then.
08:30:44 [ddavis]
Ian: New audience, new properties, new technology, etc.
08:31:10 [ddavis]
Ian: We have 20th anniversary of W3C next year (2014) so wouldn't it be cool to have a new site/branding to go with that.
08:31:32 [ddavis]
Ian: Some of our site will be data-powered in the future.
08:31:42 [ddavis]
Ian: We only have part of the redesign here today.
08:31:52 [ddavis]
Ian: We concluded the Headlights project in July.
08:32:06 [Ian]
08:32:41 [ddavis]
Ian: We have a proposal for the management team asking for money to do this.
08:32:56 [ddavis]
Ian: Management team said great - but no money available.
08:33:10 [laurent]
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08:33:13 [ddavis]
Ian: But we were given a job opening for someone based in China.
08:33:35 [ddavis]
Ian: Things slowed down a bit and I was looking around for funding. A bit of interest but still looking.
08:33:44 [ijongcheol]
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08:33:47 [marie_]
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08:34:23 [r12a]
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08:34:27 [ddavis]
Dirk: We had a site redesign only 5 years ago. If we have not enough money, why don't we just redesign e.g. the specs pages?
08:34:28 [krit]
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08:34:31 [ingee_kim_]
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08:34:57 [ddavis]
Ian: People are telling us the TR pages sucks. We also have a need to impress new industry contacts and interested companies/organisations.
08:35:14 [ddavis]
Ian: We also did a survey and got the response that people like our content but have trouble finding it.
08:35:38 [ddavis]
Ian: Our site is blocking our users. We may have to limit the scope but initially I'd like to try for the whole thing.
08:36:13 [marilyn]
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08:36:18 [ddavis]
Ian: To get some ideas for TPAC I contact designers and got some help to create wireframes which I'm presenting today.
08:36:28 [marilyn]
new scribe: marilyn
08:36:48 [brett]
s/new scribe/scribenick/
08:36:58 [marilyn]
Ian: working group home pages...we think we can do a lot better
08:37:19 [marilyn]
...we have the beginnnnings of use case and requiremenets, but also want to talk to people here at TPAC
08:37:48 [marilyn] today the bulk of this is getting feedback on the wireframes I have
08:39:52 [marilyn]
Ian: many people in the survey said 'we want the standard'
08:40:43 [marilyn]
Ian describes block on right...W3C spotlight
08:40:59 [marilyn]
..this will be lightweight way to give heads up
08:41:10 [marilyn]
..if there is no spotlight, you won't see it
08:41:21 [marilyn]
our key audience is developer community
08:41:40 [marilyn]
remember, this is wireframe, not design
08:41:44 [ijongcheol]
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08:42:10 [marilyn]
the Put our Standards to Work for you block
08:42:19 [marilyn]
An Agenda of Innovation block
08:42:47 [renoirb]
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08:42:49 [marilyn]
...includes horizontal and vertical topics
08:43:02 [marilyn] Web and TV (vertical) and accessibility (horizontal)
08:43:18 [marilyn]
...some of these pages will be ported from existing site, others will be purged
08:43:44 [marilyn]
..there is a giant elephant in the room...who is going to do all this content strategy and maintenance...
08:43:54 [marilyn]
08:44:15 [marilyn]
...for the first time we'll have a clear explanation of who to get involved in our work
08:44:28 [renoirb]
will be section to describe how to get involved for the public
08:44:30 [marilyn]
...part will be member and part will be non-member oriented
08:44:38 [marilyn]
...there will be member testimonials , too
08:44:52 [marilyn]
finally, there will be a section for donations and sponsorships
08:45:06 [marilyn] the flow is timely developer industry/social participation
08:45:17 [marilyn]
Slide 2
08:45:28 [marilyn]
what's different is what happens at top of page
08:45:41 [marilyn]
in the future to give fast access...we will have type-ahead
08:46:01 [marilyn]
08:46:10 [marilyn]
...but exact topics will be decided
08:47:10 [marilyn]
Richard Ishida asks for clarification of headings....Top 5 and See All
08:47:39 [marilyn]
Richard: this is good, but it's still a lot of clicks to get to things (specs, WG)
08:47:59 [marilyn]
Ian: so far there are no clicks, just typing
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08:48:06 [marilyn]
Richard: typing is just as onerous
08:48:36 [marilyn]
Richard: wants fast llinks to groups and topics
08:48:44 [marilyn]
DD: +1
08:48:49 [ddavis]
08:49:01 [marilyn]
Ian: our privacy policy does not allow us to use Google analytics
08:49:16 [marilyn]
...I sent to systeam what people are looking for
08:49:51 [marilyn] the next view is
08:50:06 [marilyn]
...tabs link to topics you might want
08:50:28 [marilyn]
...for example, we're planning a WoT workshop
08:51:06 [marilyn] I want people to be able to find this topic from a higher level abstraaction
08:51:25 [marilyn]
Cameron: @@
08:52:11 [ddavis]
s/@@/I'm not sure "Innovation Agenda" is clear for people to understand/
08:52:18 [marilyn]
...definition of innovation agenda
08:53:03 [marilyn]
Ian: web topics or W3C topics...I didn't know if that would be enough
08:53:13 [marilyn]
...innovation doesn't necessarily mean future work
08:53:39 [marilyn]
Ian: I'm conflicted if bar at top should map to block below
08:53:51 [marilyn]
...because of scrolling
08:54:04 [marilyn]
mark: it's behaviour will have to change when you go into subpages
08:54:08 [marilyn]
ian: why?
08:54:45 [marilyn]
mark: I'm against it for that reason...hard to maintain and for accessbility
08:54:56 [marilyn]
08:55:09 [marilyn]
mark: sticky inpage navigation
08:55:17 [ddavis]
(position: sticky)
08:55:43 [marilyn]
Ian: TV and Broadcasting page
08:56:09 [marilyn]
...see it starts with general industry info to show W3C knows what's going on with that industry
08:56:33 [marilyn]
..the next block is binding between industry and W3C's (our approach)
08:56:46 [ijongcheol]
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08:56:57 [marilyn]
..the third block (scrolling) highlights some specific content or groups you can get involved in
08:57:15 [marilyn]
...some parts will be more static than others (e.g. blogs)
08:57:35 [marilyn]
Cameron: add point of contact to industry landing page
08:57:41 [marilyn]
Ian: yes
08:58:35 [marilyn]
MC: what about filtering testimonials per industry topic
08:58:57 [marilyn]
Ian: we can't advertise on the website, but we can acknowledge sponsors
08:59:40 [marilyn]
Doug: so thse are industry specific pages
08:59:48 [marilyn]
...who is the audience specifically?
09:00:01 [marilyn]
...what level of mngt?...not technical?
09:00:09 [marie_]
s/what about filtering/what about having another of
09:00:11 [marilyn]
ian: the content will be overview content
09:01:03 [marilyn]
Ian: previews Web and TV page
09:01:41 [marilyn]
Doug: I suspect that one of the users of this site will already know the tech aspects and will be coming here looking for more
09:01:56 [marilyn]
...perhaps add a slide deck or other resources for them?
09:02:11 [marie_]
09:02:17 [marilyn]
ian: this is a separate topic that we are addressing elsewhere
09:02:38 [marilyn]
Liam: 1) analytics and 2) primary audience = developers
09:02:49 [marilyn]
...what about writers?
09:03:02 [marilyn]
...don't we fail them by focusing only on developers?
09:03:14 [marilyn]
Doug: isn't that what WebPlatform is for?
09:03:51 [marilyn]
ian: yes, WP does play a role...also I consider these pages for industry analysts too
09:04:08 [marilyn]
...I don't think primers are something we should be working on
09:04:14 [marilyn]
liam: I don't think so either
09:04:28 [marilyn]
Ian: Tech Reports page (TR page)
09:04:41 [marilyn]
...this page will make clear 1) when 2) title 3) status
09:04:59 [marilyn]
s/when/when this was published
09:05:23 [marilyn]
...we ask all the groups to provide a one sentence description so I'd like to add those here
09:05:36 [marilyn]
...sorting happens through tops of columns like the rest of the world does
09:05:41 [marilyn]
...filter mechanisms
09:05:50 [marilyn]
...view nightly draft
09:06:12 [marilyn]'ll see we have multiple pages, I know we need a 'view all'
09:06:21 [marilyn]
...see the filters
09:06:55 [marilyn]
...tags to get at things
09:07:16 [marilyn]
Cameron and Ian: all these things will have a URL
09:07:42 [marilyn]
I want to bookmark the page with filters already set
09:07:57 [marilyn]
Richard: uses example of finding internationalization
09:08:22 [marilyn]
Ian: you're the guy who leverages those categories
09:08:30 [marilyn]
Richard: I would like some grouping
09:08:54 [marilyn]
..HTML is simple, i18n is more complicated
09:09:23 [marilyn]
Ian: I was thinking of using tags, but let me think more about this
09:09:57 [marilyn]
...CSS Namespaces Modules example page
09:10:22 [marilyn]
...abstract, groups, related resources
09:10:37 [marilyn]
...there's a mapping maintenance question here
09:11:17 [marilyn]
Cameron: this is a metadata goldmine....who maintains and where
09:11:48 [marilyn]
Ian: please provide a tool for distributed editing of spec metadata
09:12:56 [marilyn]
...editors don't want stuff stripped from our documents...leave it in
09:13:07 [ddavis]
Attendees: dorian, Ian, brett, ddavis, ijongcheol, ingee_kim_, Jean-Gui, jeremie, krit, laurent, marie_ marilyn, MarkS, r12a, renoirb
09:13:25 [marilyn]
Doug: you're pointing to WPDocs for a specific application
09:13:49 [marie_]
09:13:49 [marilyn]
...we do not have an end point like that, but we could potentially do you want this?
09:14:00 [marilyn]
Ian: somebody has got to describe the binding
09:14:05 [ddavis]
Present: dorian, Ian, brett, ddavis, ijongcheol, ingee_kim_, Jean-Gui, jeremie, krit, laurent, marie_ marilyn, MarkS, r12a, renoirb, Ian, Liam, Doug
09:14:12 [marilyn]
Doug: steps up to do binding
09:14:29 [marilyn]
Doug: will we show authors and editors?
09:14:31 [marilyn]
ian: yes
09:14:45 [marilyn]
Doug: link to profile page so see what else that person is working on?
09:15:03 [marilyn]
ian: systeam has on their docket to do profiles
09:15:56 [marilyn]
Dirk: I always liked that specs were listed on W3C homepage..didn't have to go find them
09:16:09 [marilyn]
Richard: I asked for that too
09:16:25 [marilyn]
DD: control, F...find a spec
09:16:51 [marilyn]
Ian: today we have sort by date and title
09:17:01 [marilyn] get there from under Standards block
09:17:29 [marilyn]
(some in group here didn't know this)
09:17:35 [ddavis]
09:17:35 [marie_]
09:17:43 [krit],r:3,s:0,
09:17:43 [krit]
09:17:50 [ddavis]
ack marie_
09:17:54 [ddavis]
q+ Doug
09:18:34 [ddavis]
ack Doug
09:18:37 [marilyn]
MC: search engine, custom stuff, are things we;ll need for keyword search
09:18:45 [marilyn]
09:19:16 [marilyn]
Ian: need to identify how to do this search of keywords and who will build/maintain
09:19:37 [marilyn]
Cameron: I agree that catagories used are not helpful
09:20:00 [marilyn]
Ian: the last thing to show today is a quickie view of mobile wireframe
09:20:19 [ddavis]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
09:20:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
09:20:31 [marilyn]
...again, start with Standards, then Developer section, then Industry and BizDev
09:20:51 [marilyn]
...not sure about the URI
09:21:04 [marilyn]
Ian: time check...10 minutes left
09:21:11 [ddavis]
Meeting: Site Redesign Breakout Meeting
09:21:20 [ddavis]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
09:21:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
09:21:49 [marilyn]
Ian: two challenges, audiences...public facing and how to get the work done
09:22:01 [marilyn]
two pages or one page?
09:22:08 [marilyn]
what is order of the flow?
09:22:16 [marilyn]
what is most friendly approach?
09:22:50 [marilyn]
Cameron: we used to have two different pages, not just have single page in SVG WG
09:22:52 [marilyn]
09:23:22 [marilyn]
Ian: Doug said I think I know my community
09:23:27 [marilyn]
..and he was right
09:23:51 [marilyn] we had centralized pages....grid of topics related to web design
09:24:04 [marilyn]
....some examples...this is the high level page and we'll maintain it
09:24:23 [marilyn]
Cameron: at least for SVG, the majority of spec writing audience is web developers
09:24:36 [marilyn]
Ian: I think we did it wrong, so now what are the audience needs?
09:24:49 [ddavis]
09:25:12 [marilyn]
Doug: I periodically get questions from developers about SVG...
09:26:16 [marilyn]
...if you at the SVG WG page, I tried to take the style of the home page, consistently give some details
09:26:24 [marilyn] to participate
09:26:37 [marilyn]
..used as a template across several WG pages
09:26:50 [marilyn]
ian: I love consistency...did they like this?
09:26:53 [marilyn]
...what is the content they need?
09:27:24 [marilyn]
Doug: there is a set of people who want to see what a particular WG is working on
09:27:45 [marilyn] should automatically update
09:28:17 [marilyn]
...if I go to CSS page, I'm going to find different set of consistency
09:28:51 [marilyn]
Ian: I asked people in the survey if they want help in group pages...they said YES
09:29:04 [marilyn]
Doug: good point that there are different audiences....
09:29:35 [marilyn]
...have 2 pages
09:29:55 [marilyn]
Ian: all of this input is super helpful
09:30:12 [marilyn]
...I have to rush off now
09:30:51 [marilyn]
rrsagent, make minutes
09:30:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate marilyn
09:31:50 [ijongcheol]
Hey, can I get the wireframe PDF?
09:33:35 [ijongcheol]
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09:38:16 [AndroUser2]
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10:02:48 [ddavis]
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10:03:08 [ddavis]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:03:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
10:14:45 [trackbot]
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10:14:50 [ddavis]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:14:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
10:16:56 [ddavis]
10:16:58 [ddavis]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:16:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
10:17:29 [Ian]
Ian has joined #site-design
10:17:39 [Ian]
rrsagent, make minutes
10:17:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ian
10:17:47 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
10:18:06 [Ian]
rrsagent, bye
10:18:06 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items