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08:27:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-irc
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08:28:05 <Ian> rrsagent, make minutes
08:28:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html Ian
08:28:08 <Ian> rrsagent, set logs public
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08:28:52 <ddavis> Chair: Ian
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08:29:58 <ddavis> Ian: Background info first....
08:30:32 <ddavis> Ian: We last designed the W3C site in 2008. A lot has changed then since then.
08:30:44 <ddavis> Ian: New audience, new properties, new technology, etc.
08:31:10 <ddavis> Ian: We have 20th anniversary of W3C next year (2014) so wouldn't it be cool to have a new site/branding to go with that.
08:31:32 <ddavis> Ian: Some of our site will be data-powered in the future.
08:31:42 <ddavis> Ian: We only have part of the redesign here today.
08:31:52 <ddavis> Ian: We concluded the Headlights project in July.
08:32:06 <Ian> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2013/SiteRedesign/Proposal
08:32:41 <ddavis> Ian: We have  a proposal for the management team asking for money to do this.
08:32:56 <ddavis> Ian: Management team said great - but no money available.
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08:33:13 <ddavis> Ian: But we were given a job opening for someone based in China.
08:33:35 <ddavis> Ian: Things slowed down a bit and I was looking around for funding. A bit of interest but still looking.
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08:34:27 <ddavis> Dirk: We had a site redesign only 5 years ago. If we have not enough money, why don't we just redesign e.g. the specs pages?
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08:34:57 <ddavis> Ian: People are telling us the TR pages sucks. We also have a need to impress new industry contacts and interested companies/organisations.
08:35:14 <ddavis> Ian: We also did a survey and got the response that people like our content but have trouble finding it.
08:35:38 <ddavis> Ian: Our site is blocking our users. We may have to limit the scope but initially I'd like to try for the whole thing.
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08:36:18 <ddavis> Ian: To get some ideas for TPAC I contact designers and got some help to create wireframes which I'm presenting today.
08:36:28 <marilyn> new scribe: marilyn
08:36:48 <brett> s/new scribe/scribenick/
08:36:58 <marilyn> Ian: working group home pages...we think we can do a lot better
08:37:19 <marilyn> ...we have the beginnnnings of use case and requiremenets, but also want to talk to people here at TPAC
08:37:48 <marilyn> ...so today the bulk of this is getting feedback on the wireframes I have
08:39:52 <marilyn> Ian: many people in the survey said 'we want the standard'
08:40:43 <marilyn> Ian describes block on right...W3C spotlight
08:40:59 <marilyn> ..this will be lightweight way to give heads up
08:41:10 <marilyn> ..if there is no spotlight, you won't see it
08:41:21 <marilyn> our key audience is developer community
08:41:40 <marilyn> remember, this is wireframe, not design
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08:42:10 <marilyn> the Put our Standards to Work for you block
08:42:19 <marilyn> An Agenda of Innovation block
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08:42:49 <marilyn> ...includes horizontal and vertical topics
08:43:02 <marilyn> ...like Web and TV (vertical) and accessibility (horizontal)
08:43:18 <marilyn> ...some of these pages will be ported from existing site, others will be purged
08:43:44 <marilyn> ..there is a giant elephant in the room...who is going to do all this content strategy and maintenance...
08:43:54 <marilyn> TBD
08:44:15 <marilyn> ...for the first time we'll have a clear explanation of who to get involved in our work
08:44:28 <renoirb> will be section to describe how to get involved for the public
08:44:30 <marilyn> ...part will be member and part will be non-member oriented
08:44:38 <marilyn> ...there will be member testimonials , too
08:44:52 <marilyn> finally, there will be a section for donations and sponsorships
08:45:06 <marilyn> ...so the flow is timely developer industry/social participation
08:45:17 <marilyn> Slide 2
08:45:28 <marilyn> what's different is what happens at top of page
08:45:41 <marilyn> in the future to give fast access...we will have type-ahead
08:46:01 <marilyn> ...search
08:46:10 <marilyn> ...but exact topics will be decided
08:47:10 <marilyn> Richard Ishida asks for clarification of headings....Top 5 and See All
08:47:39 <marilyn> Richard:  this is good, but it's still a lot of clicks to get to things (specs, WG)
08:47:59 <marilyn> Ian: so far there are no clicks, just typing
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08:48:06 <marilyn> Richard: typing is just as onerous
08:48:36 <marilyn> Richard:  wants fast llinks to groups and topics
08:48:44 <marilyn> DD: +1
08:48:49 <ddavis> s/DD/ddavis
08:49:01 <marilyn> Ian: our privacy policy does not allow us to use Google analytics
08:49:16 <marilyn> ...I sent to systeam what people are looking for
08:49:51 <marilyn> ...so the next view is
08:50:06 <marilyn> ...tabs link to topics you might want
08:50:28 <marilyn> ...for example, we're planning a WoT workshop
08:51:06 <marilyn> ...so I want people to be able to find this topic from a higher level abstraaction
08:51:25 <marilyn> Cameron: @@
08:52:11 <ddavis> s/@@/I'm not sure "Innovation Agenda" is clear for people to understand/
08:52:18 <marilyn> ...definition of innovation agenda
08:53:03 <marilyn> Ian: web topics or W3C topics...I didn't know if that would be enough
08:53:13 <marilyn> ...innovation doesn't necessarily mean future work
08:53:39 <marilyn> Ian: I'm conflicted if bar at top should map to block below
08:53:51 <marilyn> ...because of scrolling
08:54:04 <marilyn> mark: it's behaviour will have to change when you go into subpages
08:54:08 <marilyn> ian: why?
08:54:45 <marilyn> mark: I'm against it for that reason...hard to maintain and for accessbility
08:54:56 <marilyn> s/accessbility/accessibility
08:55:09 <marilyn> mark: sticky inpage navigation
08:55:17 <ddavis> (position: sticky)
08:55:43 <marilyn> Ian:  TV and Broadcasting page
08:56:09 <marilyn> ...see it starts with general industry info to show W3C knows what's going on with that industry
08:56:33 <marilyn> ..the next block is binding between industry and W3C's (our approach)
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08:56:57 <marilyn> ..the third block (scrolling) highlights some specific content or groups you can get involved in
08:57:15 <marilyn> ...some parts will be more static than others (e.g. blogs)
08:57:35 <marilyn> Cameron: add point of contact to industry landing page
08:57:41 <marilyn> Ian: yes
08:58:35 <marilyn> MC: what about filtering testimonials per industry topic
08:58:57 <marilyn> Ian: we can't advertise on the website, but we can acknowledge sponsors
08:59:40 <marilyn> Doug: so thse are industry specific pages
08:59:48 <marilyn> ...who is the audience specifically?
09:00:01 <marilyn> ...what level of mngt?...not technical?
09:00:09 <marie_> s/what about filtering/what about having another of
09:00:11 <marilyn> ian: the content will be overview content
09:01:03 <marilyn> Ian: previews Web and TV page
09:01:41 <marilyn> Doug: I suspect that one of the users of this site will already know the tech aspects and will be coming here looking for more
09:01:56 <marilyn> ...perhaps add a slide deck or other resources for them?
09:02:11 <marie_> +1
09:02:17 <marilyn> ian: this is a separate topic that we are addressing elsewhere
09:02:38 <marilyn> Liam: 1) analytics and 2) primary audience = developers
09:02:49 <marilyn> ...what about writers?
09:03:02 <marilyn> ...don't we fail them by focusing only on developers?
09:03:14 <marilyn> Doug: isn't that what WebPlatform is for?
09:03:51 <marilyn> ian: yes, WP does play a role...also I consider these pages for industry analysts too
09:04:08 <marilyn> ...I don't think primers are something we should be working on
09:04:14 <marilyn> liam: I don't think so either
09:04:28 <marilyn> Ian: Tech Reports page (TR page)
09:04:41 <marilyn> ...this page will make clear 1) when 2) title 3) status
09:04:59 <marilyn> s/when/when this was published
09:05:23 <marilyn> ...we ask all the groups to provide a one sentence description so I'd like to add those here
09:05:36 <marilyn> ...sorting happens through tops of columns like the rest of the world does
09:05:41 <marilyn> ...filter mechanisms
09:05:50 <marilyn> ...view nightly draft
09:06:12 <marilyn> ...you'll see we have multiple pages, I know we need a 'view all'
09:06:21 <marilyn> ...see the filters
09:06:55 <marilyn> ...tags to get at things
09:07:16 <marilyn> Cameron and Ian: all these things will have a URL
09:07:42 <marilyn> I want to bookmark the page with filters already set
09:07:57 <marilyn> Richard: uses example of finding internationalization
09:08:22 <marilyn> Ian: you're the guy who leverages those categories
09:08:30 <marilyn> Richard: I would like some grouping
09:08:54 <marilyn> ..HTML is simple, i18n is more complicated
09:09:23 <marilyn> Ian: I was thinking of using tags, but let me think more about this
09:09:57 <marilyn> ...CSS Namespaces Modules example page
09:10:22 <marilyn> ...abstract, groups, related resources
09:10:37 <marilyn> ...there's a mapping maintenance question here
09:11:17 <marilyn> Cameron: this is a metadata goldmine....who maintains and where
09:11:48 <marilyn> Ian: please provide a tool for distributed editing of spec metadata
09:12:56 <marilyn> ...editors don't want stuff stripped from our documents...leave it in
09:13:07 <ddavis> Attendees: dorian, Ian, brett, ddavis, ijongcheol, ingee_kim_, Jean-Gui, jeremie, krit, laurent, marie_ marilyn, MarkS, r12a, renoirb
09:13:25 <marilyn> Doug: you're pointing to WPDocs for a specific application
09:13:49 <marie_> q+
09:13:49 <marilyn> ...we do not have an end point like that, but we could potentially do this...do you want this?
09:14:00 <marilyn> Ian: somebody has got to describe the binding
09:14:05 <ddavis> Present: dorian, Ian, brett, ddavis, ijongcheol, ingee_kim_, Jean-Gui, jeremie, krit, laurent, marie_ marilyn, MarkS, r12a, renoirb, Ian, Liam, Doug
09:14:12 <marilyn> Doug: steps up to do binding
09:14:29 <marilyn> Doug:  will we show authors and editors?
09:14:31 <marilyn> ian: yes
09:14:45 <marilyn> Doug: link to profile page so see what else that person is working on?
09:15:03 <marilyn> ian: systeam has on their docket to do profiles
09:15:56 <marilyn> Dirk: I always liked that specs were listed on W3C homepage..didn't have to go find them
09:16:09 <marilyn> Richard: I asked for that too
09:16:25 <marilyn> DD: control, F...find a spec
09:16:51 <marilyn> Ian: today we have sort by date and title
09:17:01 <marilyn> ...you get there from under Standards block
09:17:29 <marilyn> (some in group here didn't know this)
09:17:35 <ddavis> q?
09:17:35 <marie_> http://www.w3.org/Mobile/mobile-web-app-state/
09:17:43 <krit> http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&noj=1&biw=1403&bih=787&tbm=isch&tbnid=JTJ34Ha6JgEDaM:&imgrefurl=http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/site-comments/2002Jun/0041.html&docid=fnp4v3l4mtTkaM&imgurl=http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/site-comments/2002Jun/att-0041/validator.w3.org_website_down.gif&w=448&h=404&ei=2j2DUrb5J6eEjAK7y4GICQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,
09:17:43 <krit> i:90&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=195&tbnw=216&start=0&ndsp=20&tx=106&ty=118
09:17:50 <ddavis> ack marie_
09:17:54 <ddavis> q+ Doug
09:18:34 <ddavis> ack Doug
09:18:37 <marilyn> MC: search engine, custom stuff, are things we;ll need for keyword search
09:18:45 <marilyn> s/kirk/krit
09:19:16 <marilyn> Ian: need to identify how to do this search of keywords and who will build/maintain
09:19:37 <marilyn> Cameron: I agree that catagories used are not helpful
09:20:00 <marilyn> Ian: the last thing to show today is a quickie view of mobile wireframe
09:20:19 <ddavis> RRSAgent, draft minutes
09:20:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html ddavis
09:20:31 <marilyn> ...again, start with Standards, then Developer section, then Industry and BizDev
09:20:51 <marilyn> ...not sure about the URI
09:21:04 <marilyn> Ian: time check...10 minutes left
09:21:11 <ddavis> Meeting: w3.org Site Redesign Breakout Meeting
09:21:20 <ddavis> RRSAgent, draft minutes
09:21:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html ddavis
09:21:49 <marilyn> Ian: two challenges, audiences...public facing and how to get the work done
09:22:01 <marilyn> two pages or one page?
09:22:08 <marilyn> what is order of the flow?
09:22:16 <marilyn> what is most friendly approach?
09:22:50 <marilyn> Cameron: we used to have two different pages, not just have single page in SVG WG
09:22:52 <marilyn> s/not/now
09:23:22 <marilyn> Ian: Doug said I think I know my community
09:23:27 <marilyn> ..and he was right
09:23:51 <marilyn> ...so we had centralized pages....grid of topics related to web design
09:24:04 <marilyn> ....some examples...this is the high level page and we'll maintain it
09:24:23 <marilyn> Cameron: at least for SVG, the majority of spec writing audience is web developers
09:24:36 <marilyn> Ian: I think we did it wrong, so now what are the audience needs?
09:24:49 <ddavis> q?
09:25:12 <marilyn> Doug: I periodically get questions from developers about SVG...
09:26:16 <marilyn> ...if you at the SVG WG page, I tried to take the style of the home page, consistently give some details
09:26:24 <marilyn> ...how to participate
09:26:37 <marilyn> ..used as a template across several WG pages
09:26:50 <marilyn> ian: I love consistency...did they like this?
09:26:53 <marilyn> ...what is the content they need?
09:27:24 <marilyn> Doug: there is a set of people who want to see what  a particular WG is working on
09:27:45 <marilyn> ...it should automatically update
09:28:17 <marilyn> ...if I go to CSS page, I'm going to find different set of info...no consistency
09:28:51 <marilyn> Ian: I asked people in the survey if they want help in group pages...they said YES
09:29:04 <marilyn> Doug: good point that there are different audiences....
09:29:35 <marilyn> ...have 2 pages
09:29:55 <marilyn> Ian: all of this input is super helpful
09:30:12 <marilyn> ...I have to rush off now
09:30:51 <marilyn> rrsagent, make minutes
09:30:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html marilyn
09:31:50 <ijongcheol> Hey, can I get the wireframe PDF?
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10:03:08 <ddavis> RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:03:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html ddavis
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10:14:50 <ddavis> RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:14:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html ddavis
10:16:56 <ddavis> testing
10:16:58 <ddavis> RRSAgent, generate minutes
10:16:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html ddavis
10:17:29 <Ian> Ian has joined #site-design
10:17:39 <Ian> rrsagent, make minutes
10:17:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-site-design-minutes.html Ian
10:17:47 <Ian> rrsagent, set logs public
10:18:06 <Ian> rrsagent, bye
10:18:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items