06:08:32 RRSAgent has joined #headlights 06:08:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-headlights-irc 06:08:39 present+ Jeff Jaffe 06:08:43 dopi has joined #headlights 06:09:00 present+ Brett Smith, W3C Systems Team 06:09:13 scribe: Brett 06:09:16 scribenick: brett 06:09:31 present+ Michael, LG 06:09:55 present+ @@Daoping, Huawei 06:10:54 Jeff: Possible meeting objectives: explain Headlights and changes for 2014. Hearing your ideas for Headlights. Presenting a couple of my ideas. 06:11:34 ... Presented this at AC meeting, but can provide more detail here. 06:11:41 HJLEE has joined #headlights 06:12:00 present+ Jason, @@B 06:12:13 s/@@B/Samsung/ 06:12:21 Michael_Kang has joined #headlights 06:12:55 ... Always incremental changes in W3C projects, but big changes are more interesting, especially when we don't see them coming. 06:13:09 ... It's important to try to foresee those issues as much as possible. 06:13:35 present+ @@C, Huawei 06:13:48 ... First headlights was two years ago. Last year's was more intensive. 06:14:30 ... Some focused on the Web. We've worked on Web Payments before, but never looked at from a standards framework perspective. 06:14:48 ... Result is a workshop for spring 2014. 06:15:31 ... HTML5 performance. This has been a source of criticism in the past. Looking at end-to-end issues. Some stem from JavaScript, or best practices. 06:15:51 ... Closing the Gap, you heard about from Dom. 06:16:44 Boyang has joined #headlights 06:16:52 present+ Boyang 06:17:13 ... Some headlights look at W3C as an organization. Look at how groups upgrade from CGs to WGs. 06:17:30 ... Talked about anniversaries: 25th of Web, 20th of W3C. Probably a big event around TPAC next year. 06:17:56 Yudong has joined #headlights 06:17:57 ... Talked about W3C brand: Web site, a dashboard for AC representatives. 06:18:32 ... I wrote a blog post with a summary of each project. 06:18:39 ... Running Headlights again in 2014. 06:18:51 ... We need ideas about what's going to cause change in the future. 06:19:09 ... We're looking to reallocate our resources. 06:19:27 ... In 2013, Headlights were an internal process. Ideas were nominated by staff, then some Members participated afterward. 06:19:40 ... Now we're opening it up to the community earlier. We're starting the search for topics now. 06:20:29 ... First we'll gather proposals, then whittle down the list, then decide on action. At June AC meeting, we'll discuss the results, then W3M will assign resources. 06:21:33 ... Mailed the AC two weeks ago outlining all this and asking for their ideas. 06:22:14 ... We're inviting suggestions on a wiki. 06:22:25 ... We can add to the wiki during this breakout. 06:22:41 ... Would like to hear your ideas. Otherwise, I'll share a few of mine. 06:22:52 ... Eager to jumpstart the process. 06:23:46 Michael: Wondering about relationship between Headlights and HTML5 stabilization. 06:24:11 ... Sounds like ideas may lead to new features in hypothetical HTML6 or 7. 06:24:20 Michael_Kang_ has joined #headlights 06:24:30 ... Wondering what kind of cadence we should expect for stabilization of features. 06:24:51 Jeff: HTML5 is on schedule to reach Recommendation in about a year. Features are already frozen. 06:25:10 ... Probably no new ideas going into HTML5. Maybe something sufficiently small and important. 06:25:38 ... HTML WG is working on a number of extension specifications. Many of them are on track to be part of HTML5.1. 06:25:48 ... Anything coming from Headlights would also likely go there. 06:26:03 Michael: When is HTML5.1 expected to be finalized? 06:26:11 Jeff: Goal is 2016. That is much faster than previous releases. 06:26:38 ... We'd like to be that fast. HTML4 was 1999. We'll do better, but I'm not sure how much better. 06:27:00 Yudong has joined #headlights 06:27:06 Michael: Headlights topics should be followed up with implementation from browser vendors. 06:27:21 ... Can there be such a commitment? 06:27:38 Jeff: Proposal can start anywhere. You ultimately need browser implementation to succeed. 06:28:21 ... When we started Web & TV IG, browsers were not very interested. We got them involved by building this traction, with connections within and without W3C. All that was necessary for success. 06:28:42 ... We may start work on an idea without browser vendor buy-in at first if we think it's sufficiently important. 06:28:53 Michael: Would Headlights lead to new BGs or IGs? 06:28:59 s/IGs/IGs in general/ 06:29:09 Jeff: Usually yes, but sometimes it takes a while. 06:29:20 ... First Headlights started too late, so many projects weren't completed. 06:29:42 ... We've only had one successful year. Goal is to generally lead to that formation. 06:29:50 ... e.g., Social last year. We're just now starting a Social WG. 06:30:41 Michael: Many SDOs deal with HTML5 to accommodate needs for their business. e.g., HDTV in Europe building their own extensions. 06:30:55 ... From their point of view, it's their standard. From W3C's, it's a bit of fragmentation. 06:31:20 ... Is it possible to merge this work into core spec in the end? Or is divergence natural? 06:31:29 Jeff: What did Web & TV IG say? 06:31:47 ... I think that's the right place to ask. 06:31:58 ... Guiseppe would know better than me. 06:32:19 ... We have a liaison. On a couple of items, when they've told us their intentions, we've told them our preference that they bring that work to W3C. 06:32:33 ... It's an issue, but we are trying to move spec work into W3C. 06:33:13 Yudong has joined #headlights 06:33:22 Daoping: Developers use JavaScript to develop 3D graphics on the Web, but it's not very efficient. 06:33:55 ... Wondering about status of Declarative 3D Group. 06:34:51 s/Group/CG/ 06:35:02 Jeff: CGs are generally not Recommendation track yet, just a group studying the topic. 06:35:40 ... We could create a proposal here. 06:37:45 Daoping: Would like to see W3C put features in HTML spec to make it easier to create 3D content, akin to CSS animation. 06:38:03 s/Daoping/Dong Ping/g 06:38:29 [Jeff walks through the process of adding this idea to the Headlights wiki.] 06:43:09 scribenick: jeff 06:43:37 Michael_Kang has joined #headlights 06:43:59 Dong Ping: Bodywear device; wearable device 06:44:08 dom has joined #headlights 06:44:09 ... Can the web do somthing - small screen device 06:44:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-headlights-minutes.html dom 06:44:28 Jeff: Could be part of Web of things 06:45:28 -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2014/HTML3D 3D support in HTML Headlights proposal 06:45:42 scribenick: brett 06:45:53 Jeff: I generally prefer to get input from the community, but sometimes I have my own ideas. 06:46:07 ... When I do, I write it down, and wait to see if someone else adds it. 06:46:23 ... Later on in the process, I'll add any that haven't been covered already. 06:46:28 >>> Digital marketing 06:46:29 >>> Web of Things 06:46:29 >> Next steps on DNT 06:46:29 > Securing the Web 06:46:29 Impact of HTTP2 on the Web architecture 06:46:30 s/any/any of my own/ 06:46:38 ... Here's what I'm sitting on right now. 06:47:23 ... DNT is just scratching the surface of that issue - what's next in the larger issue? 06:47:57 ... I'd prefer to hear from subject matter experts on these issues. 06:49:23 [We revisit the HTML 3D proposal.] 06:49:33 ... Feel free to extend, modify, or even delete this proposal. 06:49:59 ... It's now linked from the main Headlights wiki. 06:50:04 ... Any other proposals? 06:50:32 ... Thank you all. 06:50:38 rrsagent, make minutes 06:50:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-headlights-minutes.html jeff 06:50:39 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 06:50:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-headlights-minutes.html brett 06:51:10 RRSAgent, bye 06:51:15 RRSAgent, make logs public 06:51:20 RRSAgent, bye 06:51:20 I see no action items