IRC log of tt on 2013-10-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:27 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:57:27 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/31-tt-irc
13:57:29 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:29 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #tt
13:57:31 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be TTML
13:57:31 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:32 [trackbot]: Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:57:32 [trackbot]: Date: 31 October 2013
14:01:15 [glenn]: glenn has joined #tt
14:01:23 [mike]: mike has joined #tt
14:01:34 [nigel]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:34 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel
14:01:36 [Zakim]: On IRC I see mike, glenn, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, trackbot
14:03:20 [glenn]: trackbot, start meeting
14:03:22 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:03:24 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be TTML
14:03:24 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
14:03:25 [trackbot]: Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:03:25 [trackbot]: Date: 31 October 2013
14:03:28 [nigel]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:28 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel
14:03:30 [Zakim]: On IRC I see mike, glenn, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, trackbot
14:03:36 [glenn]: zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:36 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, glenn
14:03:38 [Zakim]: On IRC I see mike, glenn, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, trackbot
14:03:59 [glenn]: zakim, this is TTWG
14:03:59 [Zakim]: ok, glenn; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
14:04:05 [nigel]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:04:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0, Mike, +1.617.386.aaaa, pal
14:04:15 [glenn]: zakim, aaaa is me
14:04:16 [Zakim]: +glenn; got it
14:04:17 [nigel]: zakim, ??P0 is me
14:04:17 [Zakim]: +nigel; got it
14:04:38 [pal]: pal has joined #tt
14:05:43 [mijordan]: mijordan has joined #tt
14:05:59 [plh]: plh has joined #TT
14:06:08 [Zakim]: +Plh
14:06:31 [jdsmith]: jdsmith has joined #tt
14:06:51 [glenn]: scribenick: glenn
14:06:53 [nigel]: scribeNick: glenn
14:07:40 [glenn]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Oct/0059.html
14:07:44 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
14:08:02 [glenn]: zakim, Microsoft has jdsmith
14:08:02 [Zakim]: +jdsmith; got it
14:08:23 [glenn]: topic: TPAC F2F agenda
14:08:24 [nigel]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac
14:09:07 [nigel]: chair: nigel
14:09:39 [glenn]: nigel: folks should review and comment/edit proposed agenda as needed
14:09:46 [glenn]: plh: issue about IMSC?
14:10:05 [glenn]: ... regarding I18N
14:10:42 [glenn]: ... specifically regarding support for subsets of Unicode code space
14:11:03 [glenn]: ... Richard Ishida
14:11:17 [glenn]: ... need a specific time to coordinate
14:12:19 [glenn]: action: plh to inquire with richard ishida about good time to discuss
14:12:19 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-226 - Inquire with richard ishida about good time to discuss [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-11-07].
14:12:43 [glenn]: pal: should i file one or more issues?
14:12:55 [Zakim]: +[Adobe]
14:13:22 [glenn]: zakim, Adobe has mijordan
14:13:22 [Zakim]: +mijordan; got it
14:13:55 [glenn]: action: nigel to inform PLH when issue(s) filed in order to coordinate
14:13:55 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-227 - Inform plh when issue(s) filed in order to coordinate [on Nigel Megitt - due 2013-11-07].
14:14:44 [Zakim]: -[Adobe]
14:14:56 [glenn]: pal: who will take animate?
14:14:59 [glenn]: glenn: can take
14:16:25 [Zakim]: +[Adobe]
14:16:48 [glenn]: action: nigel to coordinate with David Singer re: VTT agenda items.
14:16:48 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-228 - Coordinate with david singer re: vtt agenda items. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2013-11-07].
14:16:56 [glenn]: zakim, Adobe has mijordan
14:16:56 [Zakim]: +mijordan; got it
14:18:10 [glenn]: action-226: add I18N issue to TPAC agenda
14:18:10 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-226 Inquire with richard ishida about good time to discuss.
14:18:44 [glenn]: topic: IANA registration of MIME type
14:19:18 [glenn]: plh: have received feedback from IANA
14:20:00 [glenn]: ... (1) could handle has a new PER
14:20:14 [glenn]: glenn: how about doing an errata entry?
14:20:56 [glenn]: glenn: thinks they are nitpicking and prefers pushing back on IANA comments
14:21:21 [Sean]: Sean has joined #tt
14:22:10 [glenn]: plh: maybe would be better to have someone else handle this communication rather than having to go through PLH
14:22:20 [glenn]: glenn: suggests mike handle this
14:22:27 [glenn]: mike: ok with this
14:22:48 [glenn]: plh: notes that IANA meeting is next week, but that he won't be there (at that meeting)
14:23:42 [glenn]: nigel: will reassign action-88 to mike
14:23:46 [glenn]: action-88?
14:23:46 [trackbot]: action-88 -- Mike Dolan to Make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
14:23:46 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88
14:24:10 [glenn]: topic: open actions
14:24:15 [glenn]: action-224?
14:24:15 [trackbot]: action-224 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Query mike on priority for issue-72 -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
14:24:15 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/224
14:24:31 [glenn]: issue-72?
14:24:31 [Zakim]: + +44.787.509.aabb
14:24:31 [trackbot]: issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset -- open
14:24:31 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
14:27:50 [glenn]: mike: what is defined in TTML1SE is adequate, i.e., note about smooth interpolation between ISD (cue) instances
14:28:05 [glenn]: ... shouldn't do this unless there is a proponent
14:28:23 [glenn]: nigel: jerry? any push from MSFT on this?
14:28:50 [glenn]: zakim, who's on the phone?
14:28:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see nigel, Mike, glenn, pal, Plh, [Microsoft], [Adobe], +44.787.509.aabb
14:28:52 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has jdsmith
14:28:52 [Zakim]: [Adobe] has mijordan
14:29:01 [glenn]: zakim, Microsoft has sean
14:29:01 [Zakim]: +sean; got it
14:31:03 [glenn]: glenn: suggests closing as WONTFIX or LATER designation
14:31:26 [glenn]: issue-71: consider this as WONTFIX or LATER
14:31:26 [trackbot]: Notes added to issue-71 bottom edge padding example.
14:31:40 [glenn]: issue-72: consider this as WONTFIX or LATER
14:31:40 [trackbot]: Notes added to issue-72 Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset.
14:31:45 [glenn]: issue-71: ignore last comment
14:31:45 [trackbot]: Notes added to issue-71 bottom edge padding example.
14:32:08 [glenn]: action-225?
14:32:08 [trackbot]: action-225 -- Glenn Adams to Work with plh to update standalone profile docs for ttml1se -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
14:32:08 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/225
14:32:21 [glenn]: glenn: no update
14:32:42 [glenn]: action-59?
14:32:42 [trackbot]: action-59 -- Sean Hayes to Draft CP for adding content shrink fit features -- due 2012-04-12 -- OPEN
14:32:42 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/59
14:33:48 [glenn]: sean: believes requirement for this came from EBU
14:34:17 [glenn]: ... suggests finding person from EBU to push/support this
14:35:04 [glenn]: sean: FCC requirements to allow user to resize font may be use case for shrink fit size of region
14:35:25 [glenn]: ... someone needs to look at what CSS supports in this area
14:35:39 [glenn]: ... in which case we could define functionality using this CSS support
14:36:30 [glenn]: nigel: possibly interacts with requirement about background padding and/or deterministic rendering
14:38:07 [glenn]: glenn: thinks shrink fit is separate issue
14:39:59 [glenn]: glenn: see http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#shrink-to-fit-float for CSS shrink-to-fit width discussion
14:40:25 [glenn]: action-59: was originally proposed for issue-160
14:40:25 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-59 Draft CP for adding content shrink fit features.
14:40:32 [glenn]: issue-160?
14:40:32 [trackbot]: issue-160 -- Centered flush left captions -- closed
14:40:32 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/160
14:40:41 [glenn]: action-58?
14:40:41 [trackbot]: action-58 -- Sean Hayes to Draft CP for adding margin suppport -- due 2012-04-12 -- CLOSED
14:40:41 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/58
14:40:53 [glenn]: close action-59
14:40:53 [trackbot]: Closed action-59.
14:41:24 [glenn]: action-94?
14:41:24 [trackbot]: action-94 -- Sean Hayes to Do revisions to proposal for Issue 179. -- due 2012-09-06 -- OPEN
14:41:24 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/94
14:41:36 [glenn]: issue-179?
14:41:36 [trackbot]: issue-179 -- Interpreting the pixel measure -- open
14:41:36 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/179
14:42:03 [glenn]: sean: did a proposal for action-94, so think its done
14:46:54 [glenn]: glenn: notes that we specifically define px to mean what XSL 1.1 defines (see TTML1SE 8.3.9)
14:47:36 [glenn]: mike: notes that most authors of TTML assume pixel is in terms of pixels of related media object; others have interpreted as (display) device pixels
14:47:58 [Zakim]: -glenn
14:48:02 [plh]: scribe: plh
14:48:27 [glenn]: glenn has joined #tt
14:48:34 [plh]: pal: what's the proposed text?
14:48:54 [plh]: sean: [gives text]
14:49:36 [plh]: ... part of problem here is that ttml doesn't require a video object at all
14:49:52 [plh]: ... the idea is that, absent any video, that would still work
14:50:34 [plh]: ... [...]
14:50:59 [plh]: nigel: let's discuss this at TPAC
14:51:17 [plh]: ... this specifies rules on how we overlay over video
14:51:24 [plh]: ... so we should tackle the issue then
14:51:31 [plh]: ... no need for action at the moment
14:51:46 [plh]: sean: the action can be closed, keep the issue closed
14:51:56 [plh]: close action-94
14:51:57 [trackbot]: Closed action-94.
14:52:09 [plh]: --
14:52:14 [plh]: action-141?
14:52:14 [trackbot]: action-141 -- Sean Hayes to Call for Action to identify discrepancies in TTML 1.0 on different profiles. -- due 2013-02-14 -- OPEN
14:52:14 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/141
14:52:34 [plh]: Sean: Glenn will do this
14:52:42 [plh]: ... this was pointed out by Mike originally
14:53:23 [plh]: action-164?
14:53:23 [trackbot]: action-164 -- Sean Hayes to Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-06-06 -- OPEN
14:53:23 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
14:53:40 [plh]: Sean: should be assigned to Jerry
14:53:46 [plh]: ... needs to talk to the IE folks
14:54:02 [plh]: ... and whether or not Glenn's proposal will cause an issue to CSS
14:54:26 [plh]: ... reassigned to Jerry
14:54:32 [plh]: action-205?
14:54:33 [trackbot]: action-205 -- Sean Hayes to Forward this solution to relevant implementers for their input -- due 2013-09-26 -- OPEN
14:54:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/205
14:55:17 [plh]: Sean: this has to do with the proposed solution from Glenn to resolve origin expand with the body element
14:55:21 [plh]: ... so mike or pierre
14:55:34 [plh]: s/mike/michael jordan/
14:56:02 [plh]: ... you can ping cpc directly
14:56:10 [plh]: ... not sure what it stands for
14:56:35 [plh]: ... it's a company that has been doing work in the area. abode, ms did some work
14:56:40 [plh]: ... they have an authoring tool
14:56:51 [plh]: ... came up with the concept
14:57:54 [nigel]: https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
14:57:56 [plh]: pierre: solution is in issue-176?
14:58:51 [plh]: sean: if this special semantic is not done yet, you might to hang on it until then
14:59:02 [plh]: nigel: that's for TPAC agenda
14:59:22 [plh]: ... I'll take the action for now
14:59:59 [plh]: mijordan: we implemented this behavior
15:00:17 [plh]: ... you're overriding the behavior of the parent which could be problematic
15:00:25 [plh]: ... and Glenn had a proposal to resolve
15:00:33 [plh]: ... wanted feedback from CPC and Adobe
15:01:11 [plh]: ... will be attending TPAC by phone
15:01:40 [plh]: nigel: take the action then
15:02:34 [plh]: mike: caution here: not sure if the problems are the same here. there are flow issues to deal with
15:02:36 [plh]: ... make sure to sync with Glenn
15:02:58 [plh]: nigel: starting with Glenn proposal since the right choice
15:03:09 [plh]: ... and modify it as needed based on implementation
15:03:26 [plh]: mijordan: ok
15:04:17 [plh]: ... Glenn made some revision in action-93 btw
15:04:40 [plh]: action-220?
15:04:40 [trackbot]: action-220 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Investigate actual css behavior further regarding whether line height of individual lines are affected by font size on line as opposed to maximum over paragraph -- due 2013-10-24 -- OPEN
15:04:40 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/220
15:05:02 [plh]: Nigel: any update?
15:05:15 [plh]: Pierre: the line height would be good to have Glenn around
15:05:25 [plh]: ... and Mike wasn't on the call last time
15:05:38 [plh]: ... ie we need nike and glenn, so after TPAC?
15:05:52 [plh]: ... two issues:
15:06:02 [plh]: ... understanding computed line height
15:06:18 [plh]: ... and what is line height normal
15:06:37 [plh]: action-222?
15:06:37 [trackbot]: action-222 -- Sean Hayes to Check on receipt of iso liaison, re: parts 12 and 30 of 14496 -- due 2013-10-24 -- OPEN
15:06:37 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/222
15:09:33 [pal_]: pal_ has joined #tt
15:10:48 [plh]: Nigel: reassigned to Mike
15:11:32 [plh]: ... concerned about the delay
15:11:56 [plh]: Mike: they were early communication at least
15:12:02 [plh]: ... this was a final status
15:16:08 [plh]: [...]
15:16:45 [plh]: Topic: issue discussed over last week
15:17:01 [plh]: Nigel: all new issues raised by me on behalf of EBU
15:17:25 [plh]: ... some were based on input from Jon Birch
15:17:52 [plh]: ... I had a request from EBU to add extra metadata entities
15:18:06 [plh]: ... will get to them later
15:18:16 [plh]: ... any other progress on issues?
15:18:21 [plh]: [none heard]
15:18:27 [plh]: Topic: EBU liaison letter
15:19:36 [plh]: Nigel: would be nice to respond indeed
15:20:49 [plh]: ACTION: plh to answer the EBU liaison letter
15:20:49 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-229 - Answer the ebu liaison letter [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-11-07].
15:20:56 [plh]: Topic: Draft charter
15:21:05 [plh]: Nigel: that's a standing agenda item
15:21:23 [plh]: ... a few points to note
15:21:35 [plh]: ... initial chairs is one
15:21:51 [plh]: ... idea is that I would become the other co-chair with David
15:21:58 [plh]: ... taking care of the TTML part
15:22:03 [plh]: ... that's the draft plan
15:22:09 [nigel]: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html
15:22:27 [plh]: Nigel: some wording in the deliverables
15:22:38 [plh]: ... on live production streaming
15:22:43 [plh]: ... not precise enough
15:23:03 [plh]: ... will come up with a proposal
15:23:08 [plh]: ... milestones
15:23:17 [plh]: ... quite a lot of crunch
15:23:24 [plh]: ... coming at the same time
15:24:18 [plh]: ... TTML 2.0 and IMSC might need to be revised
15:24:40 [plh]: pal: real need for ttml 2 and imsc and I think we can do both
15:24:54 [plh]: ... so no reason to have different timeframe
15:25:11 [plh]: ... imsc relies on ttml 2
15:25:26 [plh]: ... so imsc at best can happen on the same time scale
15:25:45 [plh]: nigel: it seems safer to put a bit of offset
15:26:00 [plh]: pal: we have a draft for imsc
15:26:09 [plh]: ... I hope we won't pushback ttml 2 further
15:26:23 [plh]: ... no significant issues against imsc
15:26:34 [plh]: ... so pretty confident with the timeline
15:26:36 [plh]: nigel: alright
15:29:23 [plh]: Nigel: on dependencies, we don't have one on XML
15:31:08 [nigel]: nigel: similarly on Internationalisation
15:33:28 [plh]: ACTION: plh to get a review from PF sooner rather than later
15:33:28 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-230 - Get a review from pf sooner rather than later [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-11-07].
15:34:11 [plh]: Nigel: do we need feeback from DVB
15:35:17 [plh]: ... they do their own thing from time to time
15:35:49 [plh]: ACTION: Nigel to find out which group within DVB we should target
15:35:49 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-231 - Find out which group within dvb we should target [on Nigel Megitt - due 2013-11-07].
15:36:06 [nigel]: sean: John Piesing
15:38:08 [plh]: plh: plan is to get charter to the AC after TPAC
15:38:15 [plh]: ... and approved in December
15:41:30 [plh]: nigel: can we get from FPWD to LC between January and April?
15:41:44 [plh]: pal: I'd like to get to FPWD asap
15:42:34 [plh]: nigel: to reverse the idea of the TPAC doesn't seem a good idea
15:43:52 [plh]: nigel: any other comment?
15:43:58 [plh]: Topic: next week meeting
15:44:04 [plh]: Nigel: I propose to cancel it
15:44:06 [plh]: regrets from me
15:44:24 [plh]: regrets from mike
15:44:37 [plh]: Next meeting is canceled
15:44:47 [plh]: Topic: AOB?
15:44:54 [plh]: Nigel: Thank you Sean
15:45:14 [plh]: ... we all thank you for your work
15:45:54 [plh]: plh: thank you Sean!
15:46:04 [plh]: Sean: it's been my pleasure
15:46:14 [plh]: ... I'll monitor the list for a while and support Jerry
15:46:23 [plh]: ... I'm not disappear entirely from earth :)
15:46:35 [plh]: s/ear/earing/
15:46:39 [plh]: mijordan: thank you
15:47:02 [plh]: [adjourned]
15:47:40 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/#GroupSchedule
15:48:28 [Zakim]: -pal
15:48:29 [Zakim]: - +44.787.509.aabb
15:48:31 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
15:48:31 [Zakim]: -Mike
15:48:39 [Zakim]: -[Adobe]
15:48:46 [Zakim]: -Plh
15:48:47 [Zakim]: -nigel
15:48:47 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:48:47 [Zakim]: Attendees were Mike, +1.617.386.aaaa, pal, glenn, nigel, Plh, jdsmith, mijordan, +44.787.509.aabb, sean
15:49:02 [plh]: rrsagent, generate minutes
15:49:02 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/31-tt-minutes.html plh
15:57:18 [nigel]: quit
16:10:45 [plh]: plh has left #tt
16:30:40 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #tt
17:10:34 [glenn]: glenn has joined #tt