15:00:54 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/31-html-a11y-irc
15:00:56 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:58 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:59 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:59 Date: 31 October 2013
15:00:59 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:01:28 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:01:36 +Mark_Sadecki
15:01:40 + +1.425.522.aaaa
15:01:44 zakim, agenda?
15:01:44 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:01:45 11. Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [from see below via janina]
15:01:45 13. HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist [from janina]
15:01:45 14. Other Business [from janina]
15:01:45 15. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:01:46 16. be done [from janina]
15:01:46 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:01:46 +[Microsoft]
15:01:47 +[Microsoft.a]
15:01:51 zakim, clear agenda
15:01:51 agenda cleared
15:02:06 +Judy
15:02:09 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:02:09 +paulc; got it
15:02:17 +??P18
15:02:22 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:22 On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, +1.425.522.aaaa, paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, [Microsoft.a], Judy, ??P18
15:02:36 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:02:40 +Suzanne_Taylor
15:03:15 +[IPcaller]
15:03:21 chaals has joined #html-a11y
15:03:40 cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:03:45 JatinderMann has joined #html-a11y
15:03:57 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is Jatinder Mann
15:03:57 I don't understand '[Microsoft.a] is Jatinder Mann', MarkS
15:03:59 trackbot, start meeting?
15:03:59 trackbot, start meeting
15:04:01 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:04:03 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:04:03 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 64 minutes ago
15:04:04 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:04:04 Date: 31 October 2013
15:04:06 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:04:08 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:04:08 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 64 minutes ago
15:04:09 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:04:09 Date: 31 October 2013
15:04:11 zakim, who is here?
15:04:11 I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted
15:04:12 On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, +1.425.522.aaaa, paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, [Microsoft.a], Judy, ??P18, Suzanne_Taylor, [IPcaller], Adrian_Roselli
15:04:12 On IRC I see JatinderMann, cyns, chaals, Judy, RRSAgent, paulc, Suzanne_T, richardschwerdtfeger, davidb, IanPouncey, janina, MarkS, trackbot, Zakim, hober
15:04:20 zakim, [ip
15:04:20 I don't understand '[ip', chaals
15:04:33 zakim, Microsoft.a is Jatinder Mann
15:04:33 I don't understand 'Microsoft.a is Jatinder Mann', MarkS
15:04:52 zakim, [Micros is JatinderMann
15:04:52 +JatinderMann; got it
15:05:12 zakim, who is talking
15:05:12 I don't understand 'who is talking', chaals
15:05:17 zakim, who is making nooise?
15:05:17 I don't understand your question, chaals.
15:05:19 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:05:27 aardrian has joined #html-a11y
15:05:33 zakim, aaaa is jay monroe
15:05:33 I don't understand 'aaaa is jay monroe', MarkS
15:05:50 zakim, agenda?
15:05:50 I see nothing on the agenda
15:05:53 Zakim, who is here?
15:05:53 On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, +1.425.522.aaaa, paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, JatinderMann, Judy, ??P18, Suzanne_Taylor, [IPcaller], Adrian_Roselli, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:05:56 On IRC I see aardrian, JatinderMann, cyns, chaals, Judy, RRSAgent, paulc, Suzanne_T, richardschwerdtfeger, davidb, IanPouncey, janina, MarkS, trackbot, Zakim, hober
15:06:40 scribe: MarkS
15:06:40 agenda+ Format and agenda for special TF Call
15:06:40 agenda+ Canvas (announcement from MS, at-risk features, canvas subteam)
15:06:40 agenda+ Plan for Longdesc (getting consensus from TF)
15:06:40 agenda+ Calendaring for next few weeks including chairs
15:07:13 zakim, clear agenda
15:07:13 agenda cleared
15:07:32 agenda+ REMINDER: Everyone is asked to rejoin the HTML-WG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0001.html
15:07:32 agenda+ Task Force Administration Update
15:07:32 agenda+ PFWG Approves Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures [See Below]
15:07:32 agenda+ Longdesc LC Comments WBS http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0059.html
15:07:33 agenda+ Longdesc Testing Update
15:07:33 agenda+ New Ruby Extension Spec http://www.w3.org/TR/html-ruby-extensions/
15:07:33 agenda+ New Media Community Group http://www.w3.org/community/inbandtracks/
15:07:34 agenda+ Alt Edits Review [See Below]
15:07:34 agenda+ Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [see below]
15:07:34 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;
15:07:35 agenda+ HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
15:07:35 agenda+ Other Business
15:07:43 zakim, take up agendum 1
15:07:43 agendum 1. "REMINDER: Everyone is asked to rejoin the HTML-WG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0001.html" taken up [from chaals]
15:07:49 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:07:51 +John_Foliot
15:08:09 Deadline is Nov 14.
15:08:17 First day of F2F in Shenzen.
15:08:26 zakim, close this item
15:08:26 agendum 1 closed
15:08:27 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:27 2. Task Force Administration Update [from chaals]
15:09:07 zakim, clear agenda
15:09:07 agenda cleared
15:10:05 agenda+ upcoming meetings
15:10:14 agenda+ plan for longdesc
15:10:14 zakim, agenda?
15:10:15 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:10:15 1. upcoming meetings [from chaals]
15:10:15 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:10:16 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:10:17 agenda+ Canvas (request from Microsoft, at-risk features, canvas sub-team) [approx. 20 min]
15:10:19 agenda+ Publication plan for HTML5 Image Description Extension (reintegration or stand-alone) [approx. 20 min]
15:10:20 agenda+ Meeting schedule for coming weeks (TPAC and Holidays)
15:10:22 agenda+ Other Business
15:10:23 agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:10:23 agenda+ be done
15:10:28 zakim, close agendum 3
15:10:28 agendum 3, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
15:10:30 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:10:30 1. upcoming meetings [from chaals]
15:10:35 +1 (JF could be)
15:10:36 Paul is not available. Already in China.
15:10:36 jaymunro has joined #html-a11y
15:10:43 regrets for next week from MarkS
15:11:00 CN: plan is that there will be a meeting, I will chair
15:11:12 ...the weekend of TPAC there will not be a meeting
15:11:30 ...there will be a meeting the week of 11/21 there will be a meeting and Janina will chair
15:11:40 ...11/28 there will not be a meeting
15:11:52 agenda+ canvas...
15:11:59 ...There will be a meeting the first week of Dec.
15:12:21 ACTION: chaals to post meeting dates for next month...
15:12:22 Created ACTION-212 - Post meeting dates for next month... [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-11-07].
15:12:27 zakim, take up item 10
15:12:27 agendum 10. "canvas..." taken up [from chaals]
15:12:28 The WG will not be meeting the two weeks after TPAC ie Nov 21 and Nov 28 there will NOT be meetings.
15:12:31 agenda?
15:12:55 Topic: canvas
15:13:47 CS: continue discussion RE canvas in 5.0 vs 5.1 and to introduce Jatinder
15:14:23 JM: I have been on IE team for many years. Helped implement canvas in IE9 and am an editor of the canvas spec
15:15:03 ...wanted to talk about at risk items in canvas. Hit regions and focus rings. IE11 does not support these features and we will not until a future version.
15:15:21 ...our proposal RE: hit regions is to move them out to the 5.1 spec
15:16:06 RS: we actually have implementations for Chrome on Mac and Win and in Firefox. They do not use Path objects
15:16:33 JM: would be interested in seeing examples of those. Interested in how that is going to work without Path objects.
15:16:59 RS: Shape object seems to be the new approach. Can get location information of object on the screen.
15:17:29 JM: If I can't describe a region on the canvas to focus on, how is that accomplished.
15:18:12 RS: you have a current path. assigning that path to the object. in chrome, you draw your objects, have a path. no focus, does not render. allows magnifier to zoom in on those objects. agree we need a path, but not necessarily a path object.
15:18:25 JM: without specific path object, its the current path.
15:19:42 q+
15:19:49 ...very much interested in pursuing a feature here. have had 3 versions of IE that support the drawing features of canvas. i wonder if its worth moving the at risk stuff to the 5.1 spec. not stop implementations, but the goal to 5.1
15:19:57 RS: i understood that these would be a 5.1 feature. However, we need ability to drive magnification today
15:20:10 ...could be a couple years out before we see a solid plan for this.
15:20:32 ack pau
15:20:39 What does Rich means " it was agreed upon"?
15:20:41 q+ suzanne
15:20:47 PC: when you said it was agreed upon, what were you referring to?
15:21:04 RS: it was agreed that we were going to push the path object on to 5.1.
15:21:15 PC: who? the TF, the WG?
15:21:36 zakim, who is making noise?
15:21:40 RS: PLH and Rik Cabinier at F2F. Cant' get it done for 5.0, push it to 5.1
15:21:46 chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Cynthia_Shelly (4%), paulc (34%), Judy (85%), Rich_Schwerdtfeger (20%)
15:21:58 RS: we have discussed this on previous calls.
15:22:24 PC: I would like to encourage the TF to decide how they would like to proceed with the current at-risk features.
15:22:46 ...we have to go back to Last Call. I would prefer that if we are going to take things out, we take them out before we go back to LC
15:22:56 q+
15:23:08 RS: we discussed this on previous calls that path is coming out. that can come out for LC
15:23:12 q+
15:23:48 ...working to get two implementations of drawCustomFocusRing and drawSystemFocusRing without the Path object.
15:23:56 ack suz
15:24:39 ack pau
15:24:40 ST: at Pearson, eduPub, everyone is moving away from Flash and Flex and moving towards canvas, so focus rings for driving magnification is very important to us in the ePub industry
15:25:06 PC: Would like the TF to reach consensus on what they want pushed to 5.1
15:25:37 RS: does anyone object that anything related to path get pushed to 5.1?
15:26:05 CN: we have to have a formal call for consensus.
15:26:49 CN: so you would like to get consensus that focus ring items will remain in the spec, but anything related to path be taken out of this LC
15:26:55 ST: It's also necessary to have a focus ring that matches the browser's ring for visual design
15:27:01 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:27:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/
15:28:02 Revised Editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/
15:28:10 PC: longer list of at risk items in the current editors draft
15:28:43 ...path objects and all their methods. hit regions, all attributes of text metrics except width.
15:29:01 RS: when did focus rings get added to this list?
15:29:49 PC: there was a lot of discussion on the editors list. Chairs encouraged editors to come up with list of items with solid support
15:29:50 ...to be finalized when Rich gets back from vacation.
15:30:19 ...need to know which of these items the TF wants to remain at risk and what should move to Level2
15:31:03 ...sounds like anything related to path objects get moved to Level2. focus rings stuff will remain at risk because you believe they will be implemented.
15:31:16 RS: as far as hit regions go, you need a path for that, so move to Level2
15:31:26 ...ellipse would have to go to level 2
15:31:30 ...same for text metrics
15:31:43 ...so its just focus rings that don't require path objects
15:32:27 CN: so you want the a11y TF to say that focus rings should stay in the spec as at risk because we think it will be implemented.
15:33:02 ...for the other things, if these other items are important to a11y, we will suggest they move to level2
15:33:22 q+
15:33:50 ...the question is, are we happy to bump any of this to Level2
15:34:01 q?
15:34:02 q+
15:34:24 PC: yes, indicate moved to Level2, no position or remain at risk
15:34:32 ...as soon as possible
15:34:50 ACTION: chaals to frame the questions as outlined by Paul for a TF CfC
15:34:51 Created ACTION-213 - Frame the questions as outlined by paul for a tf cfc [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-11-07].
15:35:00 ack jat
15:35:20 q+
15:35:28 JM: I'd love to see a test page to see focus ring without path object.
15:35:36 ack cha
15:35:37 ...to see if its useful on its own
15:35:40 ack ju
15:36:22 http://www.w3.org/2013/09/accessible_canvas_clock.html
15:36:56 ack rich
15:37:29 RS: I think it would be nice to have a path object, but I see no one willing to implement it and we cannot wait for it since a hook for mag users is critical for a11y of canvas
15:37:55 ...there is not consensus in the browser community RE Path VS Shape
15:38:01 q+
15:38:34 q+
15:39:10 CN: my inclination is to test the consensus of the TF over the next week.
15:39:23 q+
15:39:55 ...are the draw focus rings methods without path valuable enough to implement
15:39:55 q+
15:40:05 ack chaa
15:40:15 ack cyns
15:40:16 ack cy
15:40:36 CS: rich can you describe how this currently works?
15:40:49 zakim, agenda?
15:40:49 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
15:40:50 1. upcoming meetings [from chaals]
15:40:50 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:40:50 4. Canvas (request from Microsoft, at-risk features, canvas sub-team) [from approx. 20 min via MarkS]
15:40:50 5. Publication plan for HTML5 Image Description Extension (reintegration or stand-alone) [from approx. 20 min via MarkS]
15:40:51 6. Meeting schedule for coming weeks (TPAC and Holidays) [from MarkS]
15:40:51 7. Other Business [from MarkS]
15:40:52 8. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from MarkS]
15:40:52 9. be done [from MarkS]
15:40:52 10. canvas... [from chaals]
15:41:07 zakim, close agendum 10
15:41:07 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chaals
15:41:22 zakim, close agendum 4
15:41:22 agendum 4, Canvas (request from Microsoft, at-risk features, canvas sub-team), closed
15:41:22 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:22 1. upcoming meetings [from chaals]
15:41:30 zakim, close agendum 1
15:41:30 agendum 1, upcoming meetings, closed
15:41:31 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:31 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:41:38 zakim, close agendum 6
15:41:38 agendum 6, Meeting schedule for coming weeks (TPAC and Holidays), closed
15:41:40 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:40 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:41:53 zakim, close agendum 9
15:41:53 agendum 9, be done, closed
15:41:54 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:54 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:41:58 RS: when you do drawing in canvas you have a current path. these functions, draw systemFocusRings, passes an object passes it to element, uses the system color/style to draw a focus ring. location info gives the bounding location info in the AAPI. when you use keyboard, you can focus on object and draw ring around it.
15:42:16 zakim, close agendum 5
15:42:16 agendum 5, Publication plan for HTML5 Image Description Extension (reintegration or stand-alone), closed
15:42:18 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:42:18 2. plan for longdesc [from chaals]
15:42:23 ...custom focus ring is similar, if system has high contrast focus ring, otherwise it passes it off to author to draw the focus ring
15:43:13