13:59:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-irc
13:59:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:59:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
13:59:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
13:59:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM already started
13:59:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
13:59:32 <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2013
13:59:50 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 92473
13:59:50 <Zakim> MichaelC, this was WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM
13:59:50 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM
14:00:39 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0077.html
14:00:41 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
14:00:50 <clown> zakim GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:00:57 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
14:01:04 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:01:04 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:01:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
14:02:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
14:02:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
14:03:00 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
14:06:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0077.html
14:06:52 <Zakim> +??P28
14:07:11 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P28 is Janina_Sajka
14:07:11 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:09:47 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
14:10:04 <janina> scribe: janina
14:10:13 <janina> topic: UAIG Issues
14:10:18 <jongund_> jongund_ has joined #pf
14:10:38 <janina> clown: What do I need done if we're to pub on the 5th?
14:10:49 <janina> mc: All edits by Wednesday for PF resolution
14:10:52 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
14:11:00 <janina> rs: So, if not now, it's moved to 1.1?
14:11:02 <janina> clown: Yes
14:11:13 <janina> clown: I'm done, sor tof ...
14:11:14 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:12:13 <clown> issue-616?
14:12:13 <trackbot> issue-616 -- ISSUE: Review potentially at-risk statement "When the user triggers an element with a defined activation behavior in a manner other than clicking it, such as by pressing Enter, simulate a click on the element." -- closed
14:12:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/616
14:12:51 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
14:14:00 <janina> js: Cyns ws to have discussed this in email per UAIG minutes ...
14:14:01 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Oct/0007.html
14:15:16 <janina> rs: I'm OK to mark it at risk
14:15:51 <janina> clown: It gets tricky to turn this into "should," which also doesn't help
14:16:03 <janina> clown: Only two bullets would be marked at risk
14:16:24 <janina> clown: JC wants them removed, raised to issue to set them at risk
14:22:42 <janina> mc: At risk may spur IE to implement
14:22:55 <janina> mc: It doesn't hurt us to remove it later
14:26:02 <janina> rs: I defer to Clown, who chairs UAIG
14:26:56 <clown> s/defer to Clown/defer to Joseph/
14:30:40 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
14:31:13 <janina> clown: Some have admin actions, but most can be deferred, imo
14:31:24 <janina> clown: 486
14:31:34 <janina> clown: Change in text alt computation
14:32:02 <janina> clown: moved to note, but uaig computation differs from spec. How could that happen?
14:32:25 <janina> clown: Cn UAIG text computation differ slightly from spec?
14:32:38 <janina> rs: Need to be the same if normative
14:32:58 <janina> mc: Think we can adjust spec because not normative
14:34:04 <janina> mc: Believe this is a nonissue
14:35:02 <janina> mc: Agree it's a reasonable edit on the 1.0 spec
14:35:35 <janina> mc: UAIG has additional sentence or two, but difference is not in normative language
14:35:46 <janina> mc: We can leave alone, or harmonize, both are possible
14:38:08 <janina> rs: 551 ...
14:38:46 <janina> mc: This is re director questions, we have informal approval as we proposed. We cannot get formal approval until CR exit
14:39:28 <janina> mc: Nothing we can do until CR on UAIG
14:40:48 <janina> clown: 582
14:40:49 <clown> issue-582?
14:40:49 <trackbot> issue-582 -- We don't have an explicit mapping, for each platform, for the focusable state in the UAIG -- open
14:40:49 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/582
14:41:01 <janina> clown: Can we close?
14:41:02 <janina> mc: yes
14:41:15 <janina> rs: specific to api, either it has, or it doesn't
14:41:20 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table
14:42:39 <janina> rs: We can improve in 11, but close
14:42:44 <janina> rs: Objections to closing?
14:43:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close Issue 582
14:44:13 <janina> rs: 583
14:44:16 <clown> issue-583?
14:44:16 <trackbot> issue-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an element having aria-activedescendant should not all be focusable -- open
14:44:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583
14:44:40 <janina> clown: Agreement that UAIG is sufficient
14:44:52 <janina> rs: And if it's a focusable html element?
14:45:06 <janina> clown: Has role, does it have ID
14:45:52 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
14:47:04 <janina> rs: Guess we can close ...
14:49:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> Resolution: move Issue 583 to UAIG 1.1 as this will be a 1.1 issue having to deal with native host language semantics
14:50:00 <janina> rs: 584
14:50:02 <clown> issu3-584?
14:50:09 <clown> issue-584?
14:50:09 <trackbot> issue-584 -- Firefox has introduce a role mapping of grouping for rowgroup (should this be consistent across platforms) -- open
14:50:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/584
14:50:47 <janina> clown: Need to update MSAA / IA2
14:52:06 <janina> clown: Think it came from AT as a result of testing
14:52:11 <janina> rs: so what to do?
14:52:28 <janina> jg: Do we need do anything?
14:55:24 <clown> issue-585?
14:55:24 <trackbot> issue-585 -- What to do with role=rowgroup? -- open
14:55:24 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/585
14:56:53 <janina> rs: put it in as role system-group, leave the rest alone as they're not mapped
14:57:36 <janina> clown: did i run at-spi test? can you tell?
14:58:14 <janina> rs: yes
14:58:40 <janina> RESOLUTION: Close 584
14:58:48 <janina> clown 585
14:58:56 <clown> issue-585?
14:58:56 <trackbot> issue-585 -- What to do with role=rowgroup? -- open
14:58:56 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/585
14:59:06 <janina> clown: appears the same as 584 to me
14:59:15 <janina> rs: close
14:59:28 <janina> RESOLUTION: Close 585
14:59:34 <janina> rs: 598
14:59:42 <janina> clown: believe it's done
15:00:12 <janina> RESOLUTION: close 598
15:00:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> issue 598 was completed by action 1257
15:00:33 <janina> close by action 1257
15:00:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: issue 598 was completed by action 1257
15:00:53 <janina> rs: 600
15:01:05 <clown> issue-600?
15:01:05 <trackbot> issue-600 -- For IE Internet explorer exposes aria posinset in the ARIA Properties -- open
15:01:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/600
15:02:08 <janina> mc: believe we can close
15:02:29 <janina> mc: would have to be msaa + uia
15:03:24 <janina> rs: aria properties attrib needs to be mapped -- change table
15:03:37 <janina> rs: worked once, not any longer. so older ie it worked
15:04:55 <clown> Action:  Joseph to change the MSAA+UIA and UIA mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in AriaProperties.
15:04:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1286 - Change the msaa+uia and uia mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in ariaproperties. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2013-11-04].
15:05:31 <janina> rs: aria-busy
15:05:34 <janina> clown multiline
15:06:35 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1286 with issue-600
15:06:35 <trackbot> action-1286 (Change the msaa+uia and uia mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in ariaproperties.) associated with issue-600.
15:06:55 <janina> clown: 621
15:06:56 <clown> issue-621?
15:06:56 <trackbot> issue-621 -- Spec conflict: UAIG needs to not require UAs to fire selection change events unless aria-selected is changed -- open
15:06:56 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/621
15:07:06 <janina> clown: made the change for jc, need confirmation
15:07:36 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection
15:07:55 <janina> clown: "in the single selection case ..."
15:08:44 <janina> RESOLUTION: Close 621
15:09:04 <janina> clown: 591
15:09:09 <clown> issue-591?
15:09:09 <trackbot> issue-591 -- mapping of article to document role seems wrong -- raised
15:09:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/591
15:09:15 <janina> clown: rs and sf discussing
15:10:35 <janina> rs: there's also aria xml role attrib that will say "article"
15:10:48 <janina> clown: table says exposed as document frame
15:11:02 <janina> clown: and in msaa/ia2 it's role system document
15:11:15 <janina> rs: but also the xml role
15:11:19 <janina> clown: but not in the table
15:11:22 <janina> rs: fix the table?
15:11:26 <janina> clown OK
15:11:35 <janina> rs: can do a test case to check
15:14:38 <janina> Good!
15:15:11 <janina> rs: can tweak expected results
15:15:18 <janina> clown: and tweak uaig
15:15:26 <janina> rs: also test, but will pass
15:15:33 <janina> rs: put it in
15:16:51 <clown> action:  Joseph to add to the role mapping of 'article' for MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article.
15:16:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1287 - Add to the role mapping of 'article' for msaa+ia2 and atk/at-spi that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2013-11-04].
15:17:34 <clown> trackbot, associate action-1287 with issue-591
15:17:34 <trackbot> action-1287 (Add to the role mapping of 'article' for msaa+ia2 and atk/at-spi that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article.) associated with issue-591.
15:20:00 <janina> rs: 600
15:20:01 <clown> action: mark the UIA columns as "at risk".
15:20:02 <trackbot> Error finding 'mark'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
15:20:15 <janina> js: we did it
15:20:26 <janina> rs: 608
15:20:30 <clown> issue-608?
15:20:30 <trackbot> issue-608 -- aria-checked is undefined (state) can be false or not mapped -- raised
15:20:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/608
15:20:56 <janina> jg: believe we agreed it's just how it's going to be
15:21:08 <janina> rs: so nothing to do
15:21:17 <janina> RESOLUTION: Close 608
15:21:46 <clown> action-1263?
15:21:46 <trackbot> action-1263 -- James Craig to AXARIABusy is probably going to change to something less ARIA-specific, like AXBusy or AXElementBusy -- due 2013-09-23 -- OPEN
15:21:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1263
15:22:21 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121442
15:22:31 <janina> clown: marked fixed, so changed in webkit
15:22:35 <janina> rs: so we're ok
15:23:10 <janina> mc: should ask jc, but presume he wants it reflect in uaig
15:23:53 <janina> mc: seems test not updated
15:24:00 <janina> rs: were they failing?
15:25:04 <janina> mc: test 76 jg passed it
15:25:24 <janina> mc: suggest it's aria-1.1 when we update
15:25:43 <janina> js: for today we're ok
15:26:05 <clown> action-1273?
15:26:05 <trackbot> action-1273 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add rfc2119 should statements to uaig #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement -- due 2013-10-21 -- OPEN
15:26:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1273
15:26:50 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection
15:27:38 <janina> clown: ff thinks order shouldn't be specified
15:27:45 <janina> mc: believe we agreed this is a should
15:27:50 <janina> mc so no test
15:28:20 <janina> mc: think we can tweak tuesday, if need be
15:29:17 <janina> rs: agree to remove ordering
15:29:35 <janina> clown agree
15:30:13 <clown> action-1283?
15:30:13 <trackbot> action-1283 -- Michael Cooper to Add aria spec live region tests to the aria implementation guide tests, and run those test cases for mac -- due 2013-10-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:30:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1283
15:31:02 <janina> mc: will do
15:33:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2
15:35:17 <janina> clown: tweaked the uaig, and the test is now obe
15:36:24 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:36:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html janina
15:36:57 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:38:01 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
15:44:08 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=31
15:49:00 <clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test31.html
15:55:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test40.html#
15:59:21 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html MichaelC
15:59:24 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:59:40 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
15:59:45 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:59:46 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has ended
15:59:46 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Cooper, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jon_Gunderson
16:11:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pf
16:16:49 <MichaelC> meeting: ARIA
16:16:53 <MichaelC> chair: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:16:59 <MichaelC> scribeOptions: -final
16:17:12 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html MichaelC
17:07:14 <jongund> jongund has joined #pf
18:18:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
18:53:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
19:40:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
20:17:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
21:00:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf