IRC log of html-a11y on 2013-10-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:56 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-html-a11y-irc

14:55:58 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:56:00 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 2119

14:56:00 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 56 minutes ago

14:56:01 [trackbot]

Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

14:56:01 [trackbot]

Date: 17 October 2013

14:56:14 [janina]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:56:14 [Zakim]

I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted

14:56:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P11

14:56:27 [janina]

zakim, ??P11 is me

14:56:27 [Zakim]

+janina; got it

14:56:37 [janina]

agenda?

14:56:50 [janina]

zakim, clear agenda

14:56:50 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

14:57:15 [Zakim]

+Mark_Sadecki

14:58:38 [MarkS]

Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference

14:58:39 [MarkS]

Chair: Chaals

14:58:40 [MarkS]

agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

14:58:42 [MarkS]

agenda+CfC determination for Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures

14:58:43 [MarkS]

agenda+Longdesc LC Comments CfC

14:58:45 [MarkS]

agenda+Longdesc Testing

14:58:46 [MarkS]

agenda+MSE Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0018.html

14:58:48 [MarkS]

agenda+Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;

14:58:49 [MarkS]

agenda+ Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF

14:58:51 [MarkS]

agenda+HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist

14:58:52 [MarkS]

agenda+Other Business

14:58:53 [MarkS]

agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

14:58:54 [MarkS]

agenda+ be done

14:59:32 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

15:00:07 [aardrian]

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15:00:14 [Zakim]

+Adrian_Roselli

15:00:22 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald

15:01:21 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:01:30 [David]

David has joined #html-a11y

15:01:30 [chaals]

zakim, [ipca is me

15:01:30 [Zakim]

+chaals; got it

15:01:38 [chaals]

zakim, who is here?

15:01:38 [Zakim]

On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, Adrian_Roselli, David_MacDonald, chaals

15:01:41 [Zakim]

On IRC I see David, aardrian, RRSAgent, davidb, SteveF, chaals, trackbot, MarkS, janina, Zakim, hober

15:01:50 [hbwhzk]

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15:01:51 [chaals]

zakim, agenda?

15:01:51 [Zakim]

I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:

15:01:53 [Zakim]

1. Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from MarkS]

15:01:53 [Zakim]

2. CfC determination for Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures [from MarkS]

15:01:53 [Zakim]

3. Longdesc LC Comments CfC [from MarkS]

15:01:53 [Zakim]

4. Longdesc Testing [from MarkS]

15:01:53 [Zakim]

5. MSE Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0018.html [from MarkS]

15:01:54 [Zakim]

6. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media; [from MarkS]

15:01:54 [Zakim]

7. Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [from MarkS]

15:01:54 [Zakim]

8. HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist [from MarkS]

15:01:54 [Zakim]

9. Other Business [from MarkS]

15:01:54 [Zakim]

10. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from MarkS]

15:01:55 [Zakim]

11. be done [from MarkS]

15:01:55 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:02:07 [chaals]

zakim, [ipc is leonie

15:02:07 [Zakim]

+leonie; got it

15:02:42 [kenny]

kenny has joined #html-a11y

15:02:44 [MarkS]

scribe: MarkS

15:02:49 [LJWatson]

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15:02:58 [chaals]

zakim, next agendum

15:02:58 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from MarkS]

15:03:11 [chaals]

CMN: someone who isn't Leonie :)

15:03:16 [chaals]

zakim, close this agendum

15:03:16 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

15:03:17 [Zakim]

I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:03:17 [Zakim]

2. CfC determination for Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures [from MarkS]

15:03:24 [Zakim]

+Kenny

15:03:27 [Zakim]

+Judy

15:04:36 [MarkS]

CN: CfC passes in the TF. HTML WG will most likely wait for PF to approve the new work statement and consensus procedures

15:04:54 [kenny]

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kenny has joined #html-a11y

15:05:21 [chaals]

Topic: Introducing Kenny

15:05:38 [chaals]

zakim, unmute kenny

15:05:38 [Zakim]

Kenny should no longer be muted

15:05:50 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

15:06:16 [paulc_]

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15:07:03 [chaals]

zakim, next item

15:07:03 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "CfC determination for Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures" taken up [from MarkS]

15:07:10 [chaals]

zakim, close agendum 2

15:07:10 [Zakim]

agendum 2, CfC determination for Revised Work Statement and Decision Procedures, closed

15:07:12 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:07:12 [Zakim]

3. Longdesc LC Comments CfC [from MarkS]

15:08:01 [chaals]

-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Longdesc-comments discussion / development of responses to LC comments

15:08:03 [MarkS]

CN: ready to propose a set of resolutions to the comments received during the LC comment period

15:08:25 [MarkS]

…we have a survey that we will put as a formal call for consensus that will run through the next week.

15:08:33 [MarkS]

…most comments are editorial in nature.

15:09:23 [MarkS]

…in response to James Craig, there is a new 'should' requirement. It is possible that this will require an additional LC period. If so, it would add 3 weeks to the longdesc timeline.

15:09:46 [MarkS]

…please review the comments, look carefully at the proposed changes to the spec in addition to the responses.

15:10:20 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/ProposedLongdescCommentResponses/

15:10:25 [cyns]

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15:10:41 [MarkS]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:10:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS

15:10:44 [paulc_]

q+

15:11:21 [chaals]

ack pau

15:11:37 [MarkS]

MS: it is now open through next friday

15:12:45 [MarkS]

PC: is this CfC subject to the old TF rules or the new TF rules (7 days, spanning a meeting)

15:13:00 [MarkS]

CN: this satisfies the old requirements (and the new)

15:13:51 [chaals]

zakim, close agendum 3

15:13:51 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Longdesc LC Comments CfC, closed

15:13:52 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:13:52 [Zakim]

4. Longdesc Testing [from MarkS]

15:14:41 [MarkS]

CN: we have accepted as a group, a set of 20 tests, with results for many of those. We are still looking for results on AAPIs

15:15:44 [MarkS]

MS: David and I will finish testing and record results by end of day tomorrow

15:16:06 [MarkS]

CN: These tests should now be entered into the HTML testing framework.

15:16:42 [MarkS]

JS: In last week kris mentioned that it shouldn't be too difficult to get our tests into the HTML test suite.

15:17:04 [MarkS]

MS: I can work with the HTML testing TF to get those tests in there.

15:17:14 [chaals]

-> http://github.com/chaals

15:17:28 [MarkS]

LW: can I shadow you during that process?

15:17:32 [MarkS]

DM: me too

15:17:42 [MarkS]

MS: yes I can

15:17:52 [chaals]

s/chaals/chaals chaals' github account (the test results are in longdesc-tests)/

15:18:07 [chaals]

ACTION: marks to coordinate putting the tests into the HTML harness

15:18:07 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-208 - Coordinate putting the tests into the html harness [on Mark Sadecki - due 2013-10-24].

15:18:25 [chaals]

zakim, close agendum 4

15:18:25 [Zakim]

agendum 4, Longdesc Testing, closed

15:18:26 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:18:26 [Zakim]

5. MSE Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0018.html [from MarkS]

15:19:16 [MarkS]

CN: We have been asked to review MSE for accessibility support. Are there any particular comments, results.

15:19:49 [MarkS]

AR: I sat down last night to look at MSE. Was concerned with text track, syncing of video, etc. I did not see any major concerns.

15:20:34 [MarkS]

CN: The key thing to be sure of is that synchronized tracks don't get lost or out of sync when you move through the media timeline. Should we ask the group to clarify that question?

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15:20:46 [MarkS]

…would help to ask them explicitly

15:21:06 [MarkS]

AR: I think there is value in having them state that explicitly.

15:21:06 [paulc_]

paulc

15:21:10 [paulc_]

q+

15:21:58 [MarkS]

JS: It was not clear during my review with Mark that the requirement the TF has for keeping two video tracks synchronized was met (sign language video) We should ask that question as well

15:22:00 [chaals]

ak pau

15:22:10 [chaals]

s/ak pau/ack paul/

15:22:26 [MarkS]

PC: why are these questions not pertinent to the HTML5 spec?

15:24:00 [MarkS]

AR: I think it should be addressed in HTML5 as well, but this spec addresses certain technical requirements that are important to this functionality.

15:24:40 [MarkS]

CN: the kind of change we want is to be explicit that accessibility/parallel tracks to be synchronized when you move/jump around the timeline.

15:25:33 [chaals]

ACTION: chaals to request that the MSE spec be explicit that parallel tracks (e.g. for accessibility) need to be re-synched when jumping around a streamed resource

15:25:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-209 - Request that the mse spec be explicit that parallel tracks (e.g. for accessibility) need to be re-synched when jumping around a streamed resource [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-10-24].

15:25:42 [chaals]

action-209 due today

15:25:43 [trackbot]

Set action-209 Request that the mse spec be explicit that parallel tracks (e.g. for accessibility) need to be re-synched when jumping around a streamed resource due date to 2013-10-17.

15:26:18 [kenny]

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15:26:44 [MarkS]

PC: maybe its 2.4.5 Changes to selected/enabled track state

15:26:54 [MarkS]

…deals with synchronization.

15:27:07 [paulc_]

2.4.5 Changes to selected/enabled track state

15:27:25 [paulc_]

http://www.w3.org/TR/media-source/#active-source-buffer-changes

15:27:43 [chaals]

zakim, close agendum 5

15:27:43 [Zakim]

agendum 5, MSE Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Oct/0018.html, closed

15:27:45 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:27:45 [Zakim]

6. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media; [from MarkS]

15:28:58 [chaals]

zakim, close this agendum

15:28:58 [Zakim]

I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals

15:29:03 [chaals]

zakim, close agendum 6

15:29:03 [Zakim]

agendum 6, Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;, closed

15:29:04 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:29:04 [Zakim]

7. Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [from MarkS]

15:29:11 [chaals]

Topic: Bug Triage

15:29:54 [MarkS]

a11ytf keyword, marked as resolved and either won’t fix, needs info, or later: http://is.gd/VkTxop

15:31:12 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10905

15:33:51 [MarkS]

CN: I think command is being dropped from HTML5 and that is how accesskey worked

15:34:43 [MarkS]

…lets leave it as resolve later. I will take a look at it

15:34:58 [MarkS]

JS: I think command is something we should take up in 5.1

15:35:44 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10782

15:35:51 [MarkS]

problems with button example for accesskey

15:36:13 [MarkS]

CN: I will need to look carefully at this one (in the spec) before I can comment

15:36:27 [MarkS]

…suggest to leave it for now and assign me an action item

15:36:54 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10888

15:37:01 [MarkS]

Access Command Requirements for HTML5

15:37:18 [MarkS]

CN: Will leave this one until we're happy with how it all pans out

15:37:25 [MarkS]

…this is master bug

15:37:43 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10994

15:37:47 [MarkS]

accessKeyLabel can expose new information about the user and possibly also other origins

15:38:09 [MarkS]

CN: also not clear if accesskey label is a good solution. I would like to open this bug

15:38:56 [MarkS]

…because the problem exists.

15:39:08 [MarkS]

…suggest we reopen this bug and re-examine it.

15:40:05 [MarkS]

CN: will have to re-target it since it is currently targeted at LC1

15:40:52 [MarkS]

JS: seems like we should target all of these accesskey related bugs to HTML5.1

15:41:53 [MarkS]

PC: are you actually talking about taking this bug, opening a new one with a new target (5.1) and pointing back to this one?

15:42:24 [MarkS]

CN: No, I propose we re-open this bug and change the component to a future product.

15:42:31 [Judy]

Judy has joined #html-a11y

15:42:38 [MarkS]

PC: we don't change components because we lose the history

15:43:18 [MarkS]

…you should open a new bug and link it back to this one.

15:43:51 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13451

15:43:54 [MarkS]

Don't disallow image map on object

15:45:25 [MarkS]

CN: don't think there is a specific impact here. Not sure what to do with this one.

15:45:25 [MarkS]

JS: I'm not clear what the tie-in is

15:45:38 [Zakim]

-chaals

15:46:16 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:46:23 [chaals]

zakim, [ipca is me

15:46:23 [Zakim]

+chaals; got it

15:47:27 [chaals]

s/impact here/impact here, and there is almost no browser implmentation/

15:48:20 [chaals]

[I propose that we leave this as resolved and pick some other battles]

15:48:51 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: close bug 13451

15:48:56 [cyns]

I have a bit of new business to add to the end

15:48:59 [Zakim]

-chaals

15:49:02 [MarkS]

done

15:49:29 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10252

15:49:33 [MarkS]

HTML5 hard-binds "Action" to accesskey key-press

15:49:49 [MarkS]

JS: Same solution as before?

15:50:03 [MarkS]

[agreement]

15:50:19 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:50:26 [cyns]

I'd like to put canvas accessibility and staging across 5.0, 5.1 and beyond on the agenda for next week. Have some IE folks interested in attending to disucss

15:50:31 [MarkS]

JS: it is possible that accesskey gets superseded by landmarks

15:50:54 [chaals]

[I am not happy to drop this bug yet]

15:51:11 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

15:51:17 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11140

15:51:21 [MarkS]

Subject: Physical Keys and Gestures for "accesskey" attribute The use of ASCII/Unicode code points for key binding has numerous well-known drawbacks. There are vital physical keyboard keys with no Unicode representation. Even for the main alphabet keys sp

15:51:24 [cyns]

on cavas, wondering who besides Rich needs to be there?

15:51:37 [MarkS]

JS: propose the same solution as other accesskey bugs

15:51:44 [MarkS]

[agreement]

15:52:01 [janina]

Cyns, don't understand 'cavas'

15:52:05 [chaals]

[you mean leave them as is, or give up on them? (I am not happy taht we give up on them)]

15:52:19 [MarkS]

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13511

15:52:23 [MarkS]

document parsing should discuss setting up accessibility APIs

15:52:44 [janina]

Charles, treat as with other AccessKey related -- move to html.next

15:52:54 [chaals]

[OK]

15:53:02 [MarkS]

CS: since the spec we need to reference is not ready yet, we should create a new bug in 5.1 and link to this one

15:53:42 [janina]

Yes, Can do

15:53:43 [MarkS]

ACTION: Cyns to create new bug HTML5.1 and link to original 13511

15:53:43 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-210 - Create new bug html5.1 and link to original 13511 [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2013-10-24].

15:54:06 [MarkS]

zakim, agenda?

15:54:06 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

15:54:07 [Zakim]

7. Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [from MarkS]

15:54:07 [Zakim]

8. HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist [from MarkS]

15:54:07 [Zakim]

9. Other Business [from MarkS]

15:54:07 [Zakim]

10. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from MarkS]

15:54:13 [MarkS]

zakim, close item 7

15:54:13 [Zakim]

agendum 7, Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF, closed

15:54:14 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:54:14 [Zakim]

8. HTML 5.1 Objectives http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist [from MarkS]

15:54:29 [MarkS]

agenda+ staging canvas

15:54:36 [MarkS]

zakim, take up item 12

15:54:36 [Zakim]

agendum 12. "staging canvas" taken up [from MarkS]

15:55:28 [MarkS]

CS: can we put canvas on the agenda for two weeks from today?

15:55:48 [paulc_]

Ted from Apple?

15:55:55 [MarkS]

JS: I think we should start the canvas sub team up again. Steve, Rich, Mark Pritchard, Frank Olivier was active in that, and a few others.

15:56:07 [MarkS]

PC: was hober involved?

15:56:32 [MarkS]

CS: I know Rich was really driving it.

15:57:40 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

15:58:24 [MarkS]

JS: agree to put this on the schedule in two weeks.

15:58:27 [Zakim]

-leonie

15:58:29 [Zakim]

-janina

15:58:30 [Zakim]

-Judy

15:58:31 [Zakim]

-Mark_Sadecki

15:58:32 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald

15:58:33 [Zakim]

-Adrian_Roselli

15:58:33 [aardrian]

aardrian has left #html-a11y

15:58:37 [Zakim]

-Kenny

15:58:37 [janina]

call 2265

15:58:48 [MarkS]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:58:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS

16:00:38 [Zakim]

-[Microsoft]

16:00:40 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended

16:00:40 [Zakim]

Attendees were janina, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, Adrian_Roselli, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller], chaals, leonie, Kenny, Judy, [Microsoft]

16:01:45 [MarkS]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:01:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS