13:28:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:28:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rd-irc
13:28:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:28:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:28:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:28:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:28:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:28:14 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2013
13:28:20 <shadi> zakim, this is rd
13:28:21 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:28:22 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #rd
13:28:30 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:28:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
13:28:42 <Vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:28:42 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
13:29:01 <Justin> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
13:29:01 <Zakim> +Justin; got it
13:29:04 <shadi> zakim, these are probably the aussies
13:29:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'these are probably the aussies', shadi
13:29:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:29:36 <DaveS> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:29:36 <Zakim> +DaveS; got it
13:29:49 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:30:16 <sharper_> sharper_ has joined #rd
13:30:27 <sharper_> zakim, agenda?
13:30:27 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:31:06 <sharper_> trackbot, start meeting
13:31:07 <sharper_> zakim, please clear the agenda
13:31:07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:31:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:31:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:31:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start now
13:31:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:31:11 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2013
13:31:23 <sharper_> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:31:37 <sharper_> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:31:45 <sharper_> Agenda+ Accreditation of Websites survey and progress [vivienne]
13:31:51 <sharper_> Agenda+ E-Learning Symposium Progress http://goo.gl/bbjL92 [justin silvia]
13:31:56 <sharper_> Agenda+ Next Catalogue Topic [sharper]
13:32:02 <sharper_> Agenda+ Symposia Timeline http://goo.gl/xK4euz [sharper]
13:32:06 <sharper_> Agenda+ Tips for AAR http://goo.gl/PTzghe [david]
13:32:09 <shadi> zakim, this is rd
13:32:09 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:32:12 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Draft Charter http://goo.gl/Dz0nct  [shadi]
13:32:18 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Metrics W3C Note Status  [shadi]
13:32:22 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Mobile W3C Note Public Release this Week  [shadi]
13:32:27 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Easy to Read W3C Note Status  [klaus]
13:32:33 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Text Customisation W3C Note Status [shawn/david]
13:32:38 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - User Modelling W3C Note Status [yehya/christos]
13:32:43 <sharper_> Agenda+ PENDING  - Close the Loop on the symposium L&F [shadi]
13:32:48 <sharper_> Agenda+ STANDING - Issues and Actions  http://goo.gl/Z7XY3Y [sharper]
13:32:53 <sharper_> Agenda+ STANDING - Any Other Business [sharper]
13:32:57 <sharper_> zakim, save agenda
13:33:02 <sharper_> zakim, take up item 1
13:33:04 <Zakim> ok, sharper_, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rd-agenda.rdf
13:33:06 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper via sharper_]
13:33:07 <shadi> regrets: Yeliz, Klaus, Kerstin, Luz, Giorgio, Silvia, Mark
13:33:21 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:33:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vivienne, Justin, DaveS, Shadi
13:36:26 <Zakim> +??P9
13:36:45 <sharper_> zakim, ??P9 is sharper
13:36:45 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
13:37:25 <sharper_> zakim, agenda?
13:37:25 <Zakim> I see 15 items remaining on the agenda:
13:37:26 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper via sharper_]
13:37:26 <Zakim> 2. Accreditation of Websites survey and progress [from vivienne via sharper_]
13:37:26 <Zakim> 3. E-Learning Symposium Progress http://goo.gl/bbjL92 [from justin silvia via sharper_]
13:37:26 <Zakim> 4. Next Catalogue Topic [from sharper via sharper_]
13:37:27 <Zakim> 5. Symposia Timeline http://goo.gl/xK4euz [from sharper via sharper_]
13:37:27 <Zakim> 6. Tips for AAR http://goo.gl/PTzghe [from david via sharper_]
13:37:28 <Zakim> 7. PENDING  - Draft Charter http://goo.gl/Dz0nct  [from shadi via sharper_]
13:37:28 <Zakim> 8. PENDING  - Metrics W3C Note Status  [from shadi via sharper_]
13:37:28 <Zakim> 9. PENDING  - Mobile W3C Note Public Release this Week  [from shadi via sharper_]
13:37:28 <Zakim> 10. PENDING  - Easy to Read W3C Note Status  [from klaus via sharper_]
13:37:29 <Zakim> 11. PENDING  - Text Customisation W3C Note Status [from shawn/david via sharper_]
13:37:30 <Zakim> 12. PENDING  - User Modelling W3C Note Status [from yehya/christos via sharper_]
13:37:30 <Zakim> 13. PENDING  - Close the Loop on the symposium L&F [from shadi via sharper_]
13:37:30 <Zakim> 14. STANDING - Issues and Actions  http://goo.gl/Z7XY3Y [from sharper via sharper_]
13:37:30 <Zakim> 15. STANDING - Any Other Business [from sharper via sharper_]
13:38:01 <Vivienne> scribe: vivienne
13:38:42 <sharper_> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/AccMethods/results
13:38:48 <Zakim> -DaveS
13:39:16 <DaveS> sorry, got cut off
13:39:19 <DaveS> rejoining
13:39:21 <Vivienne> SH:discussion on survey, people have been emailed about responding
13:39:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:39:52 <DaveS> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:39:52 <Zakim> +DaveS; got it
13:40:33 <Vivienne> SH: outcome is that we have 6 people saying no more to discuss, and 5 who say there is more to discuss, 6 - internal only, others say we have sufficient to say to bring in invited experts
13:40:41 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:40:41 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
13:41:12 <Vivienne> SH: there seems to be some kind of desire for people to have another crack at this as part of the catalogue and that there isn't a desire to make it a symposium topic
13:41:48 <Vivienne> SH: 6 say there is no more to do and 6 say there is more to do, and 6 say to discuss further with more experts
13:42:18 <shadi> q+
13:42:23 <Vivienne> SH: do all concur that we ought to at the minimum to have a meeting about it to get some focus and then move on to an internal invited experts to participate
13:42:31 <Vivienne> SH: view from others?
13:42:47 <Vivienne> SA: found survey a good mechanism to get input
13:44:22 <Vivienne> SA: could have another question about 'yes there is more to disucss'.  I put that in the comments, that it's a very interesting discussion to talk about certification and accreditation.  It was a good debate, but doesn't really fit the scientific discussion we need to have in RDWG.  Our priority should be the other things we have in the charter.
13:44:33 <shadi> ack me
13:44:52 <Vivienne> DS: agree with Shadi, I thought we could talk about it more and invite others.
13:44:59 <Vivienne> zakim, unmute me
13:44:59 <Zakim> Vivienne should no longer be muted
13:46:13 <shadi> s/yes there is more to disucss/there is morer t
13:46:32 <shadi> s/there is morer t/there is more to discuss but not a priority for now
13:47:06 <Vivienne> DS: changing view from the survey to support Shadi's perspective as we have so many other topics to cover.  A short write-up of the discussion as we had it and identify the research questions to be answered.  That way we can put it in the catalogue and move on to other topics.
13:47:12 <Vivienne> SH: more comments?
13:47:14 <shadi> s/I thought we could talk about it more and invite others/I thought we could talk about it more and invite others but not at the expense of others
13:47:27 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:47:27 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
13:48:17 <Vivienne> SH: we have both time and resources constraints.  We need volunteers to move forward for a topic discussion and also to arrange the next symposium after Sylvia and Justin's topic.  We have a desire to talk about reserch every 2 weeks.  We need to have resources, people who are willing to lead those topics.
13:48:51 <shadi> q+
13:48:52 <Vivienne> SH: would people be happy to say to write this up now, or do we want to put a pin in it and might want to come back to discuss this topic later?
13:49:10 <Justin> Write up
13:49:15 <Vivienne> SH: it's possible to start writing it up in the catalogue
13:49:27 <sharper_> ack shadi
13:49:36 <Vivienne> SA: like Dave's suggestion of doing both - start writing up what we've got and then try to move on
13:49:40 <DaveS> zakim, mute me
13:49:40 <Zakim> DaveS should now be muted
13:50:00 <Vivienne> SA: first thing: next symposium - need more resources and recruiting to get people to devote their time
13:50:26 <Vivienne> SA: next thing: next research discussion - should ask people rather than waiting for people to volunteer
13:51:20 <Vivienne> SA: we can work in a similar manner to the scribe list - ask each person to hold one of those bi-weekly discussions - a research topic they are working on.  They can introduce it and get input from the grup. We have a lot of people in the group working on different topics.  This would help us get catalogue items completed.
13:51:28 <Vivienne> VC:  I like that idea Shadi
13:52:07 <Vivienne> SH: RESOLVE: that we're going to write up the accreditation as a catalogue item and will still look at the possibility of continuing later
13:52:48 <DaveS> q+
13:52:59 <Vivienne> SA: can we approach people to get them to do a similar one.  Dave, would you be interested in organising a bi-weekly discussion?
13:53:11 <DaveS> simon, echo is still there
13:53:26 <sharper_> ack DaveS
13:53:27 <DaveS> zakim, ack me
13:53:28 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
13:53:28 <Vivienne> SA: one of the ideas last week was that Dave could organise a discussion on the tips for accessibility aware research that he's working on
13:54:27 <Vivienne> DS: I've got a busy schedule till mid-november but after that I'd be happy to lead a discussion on the tips for accessibility aware research.  Agree that a call for paricipatio for these discussions would help research understand the expectations and what they'd get out of it
13:55:25 <Vivienne> DS: would help people to see what RDWG does - here's an opportunity to put your research in frontof RDGW and see how it could impact on the members of the group
13:55:43 <Vivienne> SH: the catalogue items are supposed to be those we decide are important to the group internally
13:56:09 <Vivienne> SH: we have a finite number of members and it is going to be difficult to get people to step up to it, but we could solicit people more directly
13:56:52 <sharper_> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Advice_for_Organisers_of_Catalogue_Topic_Discussions
13:57:16 <Vivienne> DS: it would be of value to the group to have a formal agreed statement of the return on their investment of their time etc  - what they get out of it and what it takes for the discussion.  Would describe the value of getting involved.
13:57:45 <Vivienne> SH: should we add more to the WIKI?
13:58:03 <Vivienne> DS: it should point people to the discussions
13:58:11 <DaveS> zakim, mute me
13:58:11 <Zakim> DaveS should now be muted
13:58:18 <Vivienne> zakim, take up next agendum
13:58:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Accreditation of Websites survey and progress" taken up [from vivienne]
13:58:30 <Vivienne> zakim, take up next agendum
13:58:30 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, Vivienne
13:58:37 <Vivienne> agendum 3
13:58:50 <Vivienne> JB: need to form a scientific committee to get the call out
13:58:59 <sharper_> zakim, close item 2 zakim, take up item 3
13:58:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item 2 zakim, take up item 3', sharper_
13:59:07 <sharper_> zakim, close item 2
13:59:07 <Zakim> agendum 2, Accreditation of Websites survey and progress, closed
13:59:08 <Zakim> I see 13 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:59:08 <Zakim> 3. E-Learning Symposium Progress http://goo.gl/bbjL92 [from justin silvia via sharper_]
13:59:14 <Vivienne> SA: got final text on Thursday so we have a 5 day internally for review and approval of announcement
13:59:14 <sharper_> zakim, take up item 3
13:59:14 <Zakim> agendum 3. "E-Learning Symposium Progress http://goo.gl/bbjL92" taken up [from justin silvia via sharper_]
13:59:35 <Vivienne> SA: hope to wrap it up today and send out the call
13:59:53 <Vivienne> SA: deadline is the 4th November - 2 weeks
14:00:00 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:00:02 <Vivienne> SA: announcement is ready and being reviewed
14:00:35 <Vivienne> JB: time is a concern
14:01:12 <Vivienne> SA: Simon, any suggestions?
14:01:27 <Vivienne> SH: we can look at doing it after Christmas, early January
14:01:38 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/e-learning/cfp#dates
14:01:44 <Vivienne> That's summer holidays here, Simon
14:02:17 <Vivienne> SH: January might be more practical
14:02:41 <Vivienne> JB: would we push the call out, or keep the timelines
14:02:52 <Vivienne> SH: I think we can put the call out now, but leave them more time to submit
14:03:11 <Vivienne> SH: paperdeadline before Christmas and get it to reviewers before Christmas
14:03:43 <Vivienne> JB: Friday Decem 20 for a month I'll be away
14:04:54 <Vivienne> SA: if we push it to Dec 16th that's too close to Christmas
14:05:36 <Vivienne> SA: registration is currently 25 November, but could change that to the Monday?
14:06:48 <Vivienne> SA: worth considering thoughts on how widely we can promote this?
14:06:54 <peterthiessen> peterthiessen has joined #rd
14:07:10 <Vivienne> JB: people at university here are busy at that time marking for end of year
14:07:37 <Vivienne> SH: we could push it to Dec 16th if we want to
14:08:05 <DaveS> q+
14:08:15 <DaveS> zakim, ack me
14:08:15 <Zakim> unmuting DaveS
14:08:16 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:08:19 <sharper_> ack dav
14:08:23 <Vivienne> SH: would people still be available on the 16th?
14:09:09 <Vivienne> DS: focus on MOOCS as a target of discussion we also need to be looking at education providers where there isn't a semester restriction.  If the submitters are academics they have different timetables than the non-academics.
14:09:31 <Vivienne> DS: we can try to market this to people who would not be in education but in commercial
14:10:18 <Vivienne> DS: practical logistics - shouldn't underestimate the time required to review the successful submissions and put together an agenda or order for discussion that is cohesive and allows you as symposium facilitators is to help you write up the research that comes out of it
14:10:58 <Vivienne> DS: the preparation of this is well worth the effort, and needs to be worked into the schedule - takes quite a bit of time
14:11:20 <DaveS> zakim, mute me
14:11:20 <Zakim> DaveS should now be muted
14:11:58 <Vivienne> JB: if we can extend the call a bit so that the symposium is Dec. 16 would be good as that would mean not working over the Christmas holidays
14:12:30 <Vivienne> SH: if we don't do it on the 16th, then it's too close to Christmas and it would need to be after February 10th.  We would have lost focus/momentum if we wait that long.
14:13:25 <Vivienne> SA: Let's work with that - 16th for potential symposium date, open registration on the 9th December (1 week before), 4 days left over a weekend to get them online for 6th December.
14:13:48 <Vivienne> SA: would you still have students available to clean up the HTML?
14:13:52 <Vivienne> JB: yes, that's fine
14:14:47 <Vivienne> SA: you only have 2 weeks between deadline for paper submissions and author notification.  That's the absolute minimum in light of what Dave was saying as you'll need to chase up scientific review members to review etc.  That takes quite a bit of time.  That puts you in the middle of marking time.
14:15:02 <Vivienne> JB: that's at the better end of November - most marking is done by then
14:16:28 <Vivienne> SA: call for papers would go out today and we could also make the deadline of November 18th. It would give them a full month.  Or you could make the deadline November 15th (Friday) and allow them the weekend if required.
14:16:41 <Vivienne> SH: sounds good
14:16:53 <DaveS> +1
14:17:06 <Vivienne> SA: deadline November 15, author notification December 2nd?
14:17:50 <Vivienne> Sa: author notification would be November 29th?
14:18:21 <Vivienne> SA: leave 2 weeks Nov. 18-Nov.29 - need to make sure JB & Syvia and scientific committee are ready and able to meet the deadline.
14:18:38 <Vivienne> JB: can we make it Dec. 2nd for author notification?
14:18:52 <Vivienne> SA: you'd only have 1 week to address the comments to have it back by Dec. 6th
14:19:52 <Vivienne> SA: 6th December is the deadline, 9th December registration opens.  People are always late and always ask for extensions.  Chances of having it all in on time are slight.
14:20:04 <Vivienne> JB:  just have to do it and see and hope for the best
14:20:21 <Vivienne> SA: it's the only option, either that or move it to February
14:20:34 <Vivienne> JB: will confirm with Sylvia, but I thnk we need to just get on with it
14:20:50 <Vivienne> SH: seems to be the best way.  Good to get everything sorted by Christmas
14:21:09 <Vivienne> You'd have trouble getting people in Australia to do work over December/January
14:21:29 <Vivienne> JB: will contact Silvia right away and let you know
14:21:47 <Vivienne> zakim, take up next
14:21:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next Catalogue Topic" taken up [from sharper]
14:21:59 <Vivienne> zakim, close agendum 4
14:21:59 <Zakim> agendum 4, Next Catalogue Topic, closed
14:22:00 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:22:00 <Zakim> 5. Symposia Timeline http://goo.gl/xK4euz [from sharper via sharper_]
14:22:24 <Vivienne> SH: David will work on the tips for accessibility research
14:23:19 <Vivienne> SH: Charter - don't have the latest on it, internally - has been accepted and we're operating under our previous charter. Charter is out of review for the AP right now - progress is quite slow
14:23:43 <Vivienne> SH: concerned about the notes we need to get out - need to focus on how to get these out
14:25:48 <Vivienne> SH: update on first 2 notes.  They are both on my desk.  We have comments on the mobile accessibility that need to sent to the editors for discussion - mainly minor.  Should be able to close that out fairly soon.  For the mobile note it's on my desk and I haven't had time to check how the comments were addressed.  There are some delicate comments about WCAG guidelines and mobile and I have to do
14:25:49 <Vivienne> this - it's sensitive work.  Hope that by next week we have more updates on this.
14:25:49 <DaveS> zakim, ack me
14:25:49 <Zakim> unmuting DaveS
14:25:50 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:27:01 <Vivienne> DS: update on text customisation.  Have addressed the lack of progress - inability to contact with Shawn.  Need to identify a clear plan of action to work on the current draft which is quite messy and needs to be cleaned up.  It's on the top of my list to make contact with Shawn and get the division of tasks clear.
14:27:32 <Vivienne> SH: away next week, SA also away.
14:27:41 <Vivienne> Next week's meeting is cancelled.
14:28:17 <Vivienne> SH: add material to WIKI to update the material
14:28:19 <Vivienne> q+
14:28:23 <Vivienne> ack me
14:28:35 <sharper_> ack viv
14:29:22 <Vivienne> SH: not to put the notes on the wiki - want them to go to the catalogue.
14:30:38 <Vivienne> SA: sounds reasonable - put transcript into an html page.  Think we can lock the pages and look at a home for it.  With regard to the output - create a blurb for the catalogue item.  Use that first topic to work out how those catalogue items should look.  We've had ideas about metadata, title, abstract so will need to go over that several times.
14:32:32 <Vivienne> SH: can't make actual transcript public without people's consent.  Need to write to people and ask if we can make the discussion not-anonymous
14:32:48 <Vivienne> SA: you'd need to give each person the opportunity to review what they said
14:33:12 <Vivienne> SA: we can ask them if they object, but they might ask to see what they said
14:33:40 <Vivienne> SH: transcript is there not to be published publicly - but so Vivienne can back up what she says in the summary.  We can privately discuss with them if they disagree with the content.
14:34:40 <Vivienne> SH & SA: summary is no problem and discuss it - transcript is just proof.
14:35:00 <DaveS> zakim, ack me
14:35:00 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:35:00 <Vivienne> good night all.
14:35:17 <Zakim> -Vivienne
14:35:19 <Zakim> -sharper
14:35:20 <DaveS> bye all
14:35:25 <Zakim> -DaveS
14:50:36 <Zakim> -Justin
14:51:42 <shadi> zakim, drop me
14:51:42 <Zakim> Shadi is being disconnected
14:51:43 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:51:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Vivienne, Justin, DaveS, Shadi, sharper
14:52:13 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:52:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:52:13 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:52:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:52:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:52:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:52:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items