16:51:30 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:51:30 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc 16:51:32 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:51:32 Zakim has joined #ua 16:51:34 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:51:34 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes 16:51:35 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:51:35 Date: 10 October 2013 16:51:40 rrsagent, set logs public 16:51:48 rrsagent, make minutes 16:51:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 16:51:58 chair: jimAllan, KellyFord 16:52:10 regrets: Eric 16:53:00 regrets +kelly 16:53:07 agenda+ finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results 16:53:08 agenda+ A11y mobile taskforce 16:57:45 agenda+ 1.4.3 units of measure 16:58:29 agenda+ definition of viewport http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013OctDec/0013.html 16:59:28 Greg has joined #ua 17:00:25 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:00:32 +Greg_Lowney 17:01:04 +Jeanne 17:01:06 -Greg_Lowney 17:01:08 +Greg_Lowney 17:01:48 +Jim_Allan 17:02:47 Jan has joined #ua 17:02:53 zakim, code? 17:02:53 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:03:26 +[IPcaller] 17:04:05 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:04:05 +Jan; got it 17:05:25 scribe: jallan 17:05:36 scribe: allanj 17:05:45 zakim, agenda? 17:05:45 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:05:46 1. finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results [from allanj] 17:05:46 2. A11y mobile taskforce [from allanj] 17:05:46 3. 1.4.3 units of measure [from allanj] 17:05:46 4. definition of viewport http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013OctDec/0013.html [from allanj] 17:06:00 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:06:28 +Kim_Patch 17:06:49 open item 2 17:08:47 Announce Kim and Kathy Wahlbin will be co-facilitator 17:09:18 if anyone want to participate in the taskforce let Jeanne know. 17:10:15 close item 2 17:11:15 open item 3 17:12:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013OctDec/0005.html 17:13:05 Note: The unit of measure will vary by the technology. For the purposes 17:13:05 of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to 1. The 17:13:05 font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other character commonly accepted in 17:13:05 the typography for that language) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:13:36 Note: The unit of measure will vary by the technology. For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other character commonly accepted in the typography for that language) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:13:47 References (for 1.4.3 in IER) 17:13:48 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#leading 17:13:50 http://www.w3.org/wiki/CSS/Properties/line-height 17:13:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#spacing-props 17:13:53 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-styling 17:13:54 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-boldness 17:13:56 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#lining-striking-props 17:13:57 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#alignment-prop 17:13:59 Table of all CSS properties http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/propidx.html 17:15:28 js: with the note, we do not need units 17:16:18 gl: unit will vary, but then we define units in an independent manner 17:17:04 ... first sentence should be removed. 17:17:13 For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character 0 (zero) (or other character commonly accepted in the typography for that language) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:18:35 jr: font-width of zero character become the basis for all other measurements 17:18:46 How about "Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the base character width"? 17:19:00 s/width/height/ 17:19:21 Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:21:34 Then the note could change slightly to something like "Note: The base character width is the font width of the character commonly accepted..." 17:21:42 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the base character height 17:21:43 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 17:21:45 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 17:21:46 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 17:21:48 Justification - undo full justification 17:22:43 [N<]Text Spacing and Style (Globally): 17:22:43 The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA) 17:22:43 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the font height 17:22:43 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 17:22:43 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 17:22:43 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 17:22:44 Justification - undo full justification [>N] 17:22:44 Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font height should be considered to be equal to 1. The font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:24:24 Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English) should be considered to be equal to 1. 17:24:35 justification (left, right, full) 17:24:49 "Note: The base character width is the font width of the character commonly accepted..." 17:25:38 Note: The base character width is the font width of the character commonly accepted font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English). 17:25:53 Note: For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the base character width is the font width of the character commonly accepted as the base character for calculating kerning in the typography for that language (e.g. zero character in English). 17:28:26 js: UAAG doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you use a consistent unit 17:29:13 resolution: use the text above for crafting 1.4.3 17:29:33 close item 3 17:29:43 action: jeanne to add a sentence to the Intent that UAAG doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of the unit. 17:29:43 Created ACTION-904 - Add a sentence to the intent that uaag doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of the unit. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17]. 17:29:53 open item 4 17:30:15 close action-902 17:30:16 Closed action-902. 17:31:46 proposed definitions 17:31:59 viewport: 17:32:00 A mechanism for presenting only part of a visual or tactile view to the user via a screen or tactile display. There may be multiple viewports on to the same underlying view (e.g. when a split-screen is used to present the top and bottom of a document simultaneously) and viewports may be nested (e.g. a scrolling frame located within a larger document). When the viewport is smaller than the... 17:32:02 ...view it is presenting, some of the view will not be presented. Mechanisms are typically provided to move the view or the viewport such that all of the view can be brought into the viewport (e.g. scrollbars). 17:32:03 Note: In UAAG 1.0 viewports were defined as having a temporal dimension. In UAAG 2.0, this is not the case. Since audio content is inherently time-based, audio viewports are excluded. 17:32:07 top-level viewport: 17:32:09 A viewport that is not contained within another viewport of a *platform-based user agent*. Web-based user agents are always displayed inside another viewport, and therefore are never top-level viewports. A popular browser implementation is to provide a window that includes some user agent user interface elements (e.g., menus) and a series of tabbed panels, each of which contains additional... 17:32:10 ...user agent user interface elements (e.g., address bar, bookmarks, back/forward buttons) and a top-level viewport for rendering a view of the addressed web resource. 17:32:29 ja: +1 to new defs 17:32:38 JR: +1 17:32:47 GL: +1 17:32:50 ja: any objections 17:32:54 kp: +1 17:33:19 resolution: add the definitions above to the document 17:33:23 action: jeanne to update glossary of viewport and top-level viewport with text above. 17:33:23 Created ACTION-905 - Update glossary of viewport and top-level viewport with text above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17]. 17:35:34 action: jeanne to review the use of 'container' in the document 17:35:34 Created ACTION-906 - Review the use of 'container' in the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17]. 17:36:21 jr: viewport is visual or tactile 17:36:49 ... tactile is 2-d space 17:37:02 jr: perhaps we should use visual viewport 17:37:27 gl: leave a graphical, because some viewports may be both visual and tactile 17:38:08 resolution: search doc for 2 periods (..) 17:38:38 ack greg 17:39:15 close item 4 17:39:46 topic: q8 1.4.4 17:39:48 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq10 17:42:49 proposal: 17:43:02 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA) 17:43:04 Applicability Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered for their video output, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowed for the print margins. 17:43:05 Intent: The ability to print content is important for users who have difficulty reading or interacting with Web content directly in the user agent due to software, hardware, or ergonomic issues. Printing to virtual printer devices can also be a necessary step in converting the content to another electronic format that the user finds more accessible. It is also important that the user be able... 17:43:07 ...to print content with modifications they have applied, such as scaling or highlighting, or else they may find the printed version unusuable. At the same time, they need to be able to have content reflowed to fit the width of the page, or else content may be cut off. 17:43:08 User agents are strongly encouraged to let the user print a portion of the document, such as a selection or specified range of pages, because otherwise printing won’t be a practical option for long documents. 17:43:10 Examples: 17:43:11 * Ralph finds it moderately difficult to use the computer, so while he can operate the Web browser, he finds long documents much easier to read when he prints them out so that he can hold them in a more comfortable position. When a web page has small text, he enlarges it on the screen using his web browser’s Zoom command, which also makes the printed text large enough for him to read. 17:43:53 js: implementations - if you have a user style sheet, then the UA prints whats on the screen 17:44:11 jr: why not use the same cut off that we use for zoom 17:44:55 We have this: reflowable content 17:44:57 Web content that can be arbitrarily wrapped over multiple lines. The primary exceptions to reflowable content are graphics and video. 17:45:34 jr: if for some reason something can't be reflowed then it is exempt 17:46:02 Per Jan's suggestion, change "but reflowed for the print margins." to "but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins." 17:48:39 Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered for their video output, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins. 17:50:30 Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins. 17:52:43 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA) 17:53:16 js: if the device doesn't support printing...like a mobile phone 17:53:22 jr: mobiles can print 17:54:11 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to their choice of available printing devices. (Level AA) 17:54:36 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to the users choice of available printing devices. (Level AA) 17:54:53 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to the user's choice of available printing devices. (Level AA) 17:55:11 Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins. 17:55:55 js: level concern - AA or AAA 17:56:03 jr: keep at AA for now 17:56:17 gl: right, if pushback then AAA 17:56:24 ja: ok at AA 17:58:05 gl: in UA if zoom, then print I still get 'regular' print, the the print dialog allows its own zoom for printing 17:58:56 ...is it sufficient that ua doesn't print the zoomed view, but allow zoom when you print? 17:59:17 action: jeanne to add the note and IER to 1.4.4 Printing as above. 17:59:17 Created ACTION-907 - Add the note and ier to 1.4.4 printing as above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-17]. 17:59:18 ... this requires more steps 17:59:33 s/dialog/print preview screen/ 18:01:06 My (minor) concern is that we feel the "fix it in the print preview dialog" is an acceptable alternative to automatically printing with the screen zoom, but the SC doesn't allow it as a viable alternative. 18:01:34 allanj has joined #ua 18:01:48 js: print preview zoom does meet all of the other requirements of the SC 18:02:01 ssagent, make minutes 18:02:11 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:02:54 js: this still does not cover the case where some other element that forces margins off of the page, or prevents reflow 18:03:26 jr: then it is not reflowable content and is OK 18:03:59 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to their choice of available printer devices. (Level AA) 18:04:01 Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins. 18:05:12 1.4.4 Printing: The user can print any rendered visual, non-time-based content to their choice of available printing devices. (Level AA) 18:05:13 Note: The user must be able to print content as it is rendered on screen, reflecting user scaling, highlighting, and other modifications, but reflowable content is reflowed for the print margins. 18:06:16 gl: do we address linerizing the page anywhere (print and screen) 18:06:16 Do we yet address the proposal about linearizing to a single column? 18:07:51 resolution: use above wording for 1.4.4 18:09:14 topic: q9 1.4.5 18:09:17 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq11 18:11:00 original 18:11:05 1.4.5 Configure text elements: The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for headings, main text, and other elements: (Level AAA) 18:11:07 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:11:08 Margins (for example, space above headings, indentation of lists) 18:11:10 Borders 18:11:14 kim's proposal 18:12:06 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text elements including main text and headings: 18:12:07 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:12:09 Margins (e.g. space above headings, indentation of lists) 18:12:10 Borders 18:12:22 I'm still concerned about the ambiguity of whether "for text element" means select an element and adjust it, or select an element type and affect all elements of that type. 18:12:35 we have 1.4.2 version -- The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings and input fields.:(Level AA) 18:13:16 gl: text elements - does that mean individual elements or all elements of type X 18:13:52 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including main text and headings: 18:13:57 kp: text element types 18:14:02 gl: works for me 18:15:38 1.4.2 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings and input fields.:(Level AA) 18:16:37 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including at least headings, main text and input fields: 18:18:50 jeanne will change 1.4.2 to be "text element types" 18:20:09 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for main text and fortext element types including at least headings and input fields: 18:22:17 * Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:22:18 * Margins (e.g. space above headings, indentation of lists) 18:22:20 * Borders 18:22:54 Topic: q10 1.4.6 18:23:07 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq12 18:24:19 Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally): 18:24:19 The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA) 18:24:19 Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0, at increments of 0.10 times the font height 18:24:19 Capitalization (undoing all caps) 18:24:19 Hyphenation 18:24:19 Margins (to clear clutter away from blocks of text) 18:24:20 Borders 18:27:22 Capitalization (uppercase, lowercase, author specified) 18:27:36 Margins 18:28:26 gl: overide all caps 18:29:01 js: if author specified all caps, how do we override. 18:29:49 js: if author typed in ALL CAPS and did not use a style, is should not be up to the UA to apply heuristics. 18:30:43 kp: undoing all caps means removing all caps 18:31:09 gl: only those caps made with the style 18:31:39 js: there is more type ALL CAPS than one would expect 18:32:41 gl: so we are saying that the UA must reverse the style 'all caps' and text type as ALL CAPS 18:32:53 js: that is difficult and a burden 18:33:40 ... and what happens to Acronyms and the like 18:34:08 Capitalization (override uppercase style 18:36:21 kp: should we have a note about uppercase style does not apply to text typed as ALL CAPS, and the font choice of amall caps 18:36:39 s/amall/small 18:37:47 Small caps is a CSS styling, e.g. p.small { font-variant:small-caps; }. 18:39:09 Capitalization (override text-transform: uppercase style and font-variant: small-caps) 18:39:24 Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles) 18:40:30 Editorial: change "Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0, at increments of 0.10 times the font height" to "Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10". 18:40:37 Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 18:40:50 -Jan 18:41:09 1.4.6 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA) 18:41:10 Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10 18:41:12 Justification (setting left, right, or full) 18:41:13 Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles) 18:41:15 Hyphenation 18:41:16 Margins 18:41:18 Borders 18:41:19 Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 18:41:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/ 18:44:18 1.4.6 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA) 18:44:20 Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10 18:44:21 Capitalization (override uppercase and small caps styles) 18:44:23 Hyphenation 18:44:24 Margins 18:44:26 Borders 18:44:27 Note: this SC does not apply to apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use style instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 18:44:49 rrsagent, make minutes 18:44:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:45:52 Note: this success criteria does not apply to text typed as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 18:46:41 js: scaling headings has been lost in these SCs, should be added into 1.4.1 18:47:00 gl: its preserving all size distinctions 18:47:10 rrsagent, make minutes 18:47:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:47:47 Note: this success criteria does not apply to text entered as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 18:50:02 Capitalization (apply all uppercase or all lowercase styles, and override upper case or small caps styles) ? 18:51:16 the more we talk the more complex it gets. 18:51:19 rrsagent, make minutes 18:51:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:51:27 -Greg_Lowney 18:51:28 -Kim_Patch 18:51:49 -Jim_Allan 18:51:51 -Jeanne 18:51:52 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:51:52 Attendees were Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Jan, Kim_Patch 18:52:18 rrsagent, make minutes 18:52:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:52:50 zakim, please part 18:52:50 Zakim has left #ua 19:17:57 rrsagent, make minutes 19:17:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:18:05 rrsagent, please part 19:18:05 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-actions.rdf : 19:18:05 ACTION: jeanne to add a sentence to the Intent that UAAG doesn't care what you use as a unit, just that you provide the multiples of the unit. [1] 19:18:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc#T17-29-43 19:18:05 ACTION: jeanne to update glossary of viewport and top-level viewport with text above. [2] 19:18:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc#T17-33-23 19:18:05 ACTION: jeanne to review the use of 'container' in the document [3] 19:18:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc#T17-35-34 19:18:05 ACTION: jeanne to add the note and IER to 1.4.4 Printing as above. [4] 19:18:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-ua-irc#T17-59-17