14:58:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:58:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/09-forms-irc
14:58:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:58:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:58:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:58:48 <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2013
14:58:49 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:58:55 <Steven> Regrets: Nick, Philip
14:59:15 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Oct/0011
14:59:16 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
14:59:26 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Oct/0011
15:00:09 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:00:16 <Zakim> +??P5
15:00:19 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
15:00:19 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
15:01:27 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #forms
15:01:59 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:02:52 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:03:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:35 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:03:36 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:03:36 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:04:05 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
15:07:50 <Steven> Topic: Announcements
15:08:35 <Steven> Steven: There is an XForms event in Amsterdam (CWI) Nov 22.
15:08:57 <Steven> Topic: Asynchronous Javascript functions call
15:08:57 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/2013/10/05/asynchronous-javascript-functions-call/
15:09:49 <Steven> Alain: I was thinking about how to implement some things, and the solution I found is using an event through javascript
15:10:01 <Steven> ... it works nicely in XSLTForms
15:10:26 <Steven> ... maybe we should work out how to dispatch events from Javascript
15:10:33 <Steven> ... and include it in the spec
15:11:45 <Steven> Erik: Clearly event dispatch is big, so it would be good to standardise. Our implementation is slightly different from XSLTform's.
15:12:10 <Steven> Nick: We do this on mobile as well.
15:12:32 <Steven> Steven: Does this mean that all three of you have an API for this?
15:12:49 <Steven> Nick: Yes.
15:12:56 <Steven> Steven: Would it be easy to merge them?
15:13:04 <Steven> Nick: It's just a question of naming.
15:13:14 <Steven> Erik: Which means it is hard, right? :-)
15:13:49 <Steven> Steven: Who wants to accept responsibility.
15:13:56 <Steven> Nick: Interested, but too busy
15:14:45 <Steven> Steven: Let me ask you all three just to post a message with the details of your event dispatch, so that we have them documented.
15:15:02 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1868 - Bruchez to summarize problems with error handling and
15:15:02 <Steven> three options for variable type handling
15:15:02 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Oct/0007.html
15:15:02 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Oct/0009.html
15:16:42 <Steven> Erik: [explains Nick's comment, and how to fix it]
15:17:03 <Steven> ... I will specify that.
15:17:45 <Steven> Erik: 1. With xforms-action-error, we don't need xforms-script-exception and
15:17:45 <Steven> xforms-script-language-not-supported-exception. I suggest removing these
15:17:45 <Steven> two events. Possibly, we can add context information to xforms-action-error
15:17:45 <Steven> to specify that the error is with a script or the script language.
15:18:28 <Steven> ... do we need more specific information about what failed?
15:18:56 <Steven> Nick: We need some context information
15:19:18 <Steven> Erik: Wee need a list of reasonable errors
15:19:24 <Steven> s/Wee/We/
15:20:16 <Steven> ... I can try to find some
15:20:21 <Steven> Nick: That would be good.
15:20:34 <Steven> ... Implementors can add more, and we can merge them later.
15:21:03 <Steven> Erik: OK with removing the two exceptions?
15:21:07 <Steven> [agreement]
15:21:41 <Steven> Erik: Since the expression language is in a module, it is better to have a neutral event name for the error
15:22:02 <Steven> ... not with 'xpath' in it.
15:22:17 <Steven> Steven: 'expression' is fine. Go for it
15:23:03 <Steven> Erik: "3. I had said that an incorrect instance attribute on xf:submission would
15:23:03 <Steven> dispatch xforms-submit-error, but XForms 1.1 dispatches
15:23:03 <Steven> xforms-binding-exception. Unsure which one to pick here. Wouldn't you want
15:23:03 <Steven> to have xforms-submit-error for any error with the submission?
15:23:03 <Steven> "
15:24:52 <Steven> Steven: you mean between "binding-error" or "submit-error"?
15:24:55 <Steven> Erik: Yes
15:25:11 <Steven> Nick: Isn't submit-error when you try to send something over the wire?
15:25:43 <Steven> Erik: That's the next one.
15:26:07 <Steven> Erik: validation gives a submit-error, so not entirely
15:26:38 <Steven> ... if target-ref fails, it is a submit-error
15:27:30 <Steven> ... so I am leaning to say that for consistency, we should do the same thing for same errors
15:28:22 <Steven> ... it is easier to catch a single event for a submission than try to remember all three
15:29:13 <Steven> Steven: It sounds like you have answered your own question :-)
15:29:51 <Steven> Erik: It is doubtful that anyone ever used the -exceptions
15:30:02 <Steven> Steven: I think we agree on reflection that they were a bad idea
15:30:29 <Steven> Erik: I will specify submit-errors, if no one objects
15:30:44 <Steven> Erik: "4. XForms 1.1 is contradictory for xf:send/@submission:
15:30:44 <Steven>     - the action says "If this attribute is given but does not identify a
15:30:44 <Steven> submission element, then the send action has no effect"
15:30:44 <Steven>     - xforms-binding-exception event says: "a submission attribute that
15:30:44 <Steven> fails to point to the ID of a submission element"
15:30:45 <Steven>     - I suggest ignoring, as the action says (could also do an action error)
15:30:45 <Steven> "
15:32:55 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/09-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:34:38 <Steven> Steven: The problem with ignoring errors is that they are hard to track down
15:34:54 <Steven> Erik: In that case I would suggest an action error
15:35:17 <Steven> Steven: That makes me feel better
15:36:54 <Steven> Erik: The dispatch action has a similar situation. I wonder if the spec says anything about that
15:37:49 <ebruchez> "If there is a null search result for the target object and the source object is an XForms action such as dispatch, send, setfocus, setindex or toggle, then the action is terminated with no effect"
15:38:05 <Steven> Steven: So ignored
15:38:26 <Steven> ... do we then do the same thing for dispatch?
15:38:45 <Steven> Erik: I don't know why it was designed this way
15:38:53 <Steven> ... it worries me to change it now
15:39:34 <Steven> ... I agree it would be better if actions failed, but I think I'd rather not change it now
15:40:45 <Steven> ... I'll notate this on the wiki
15:41:16 <Steven> Erik: I have the two events in the spec now
15:41:26 <Steven> ... nothing mopre to discuss.
15:41:31 <Steven> s/mop/mo
15:41:44 <Steven> Topic: Progress to LC
15:41:53 <Steven> Steven: We need to set ourselves some deadlines.
15:42:33 <Steven> ... Any suggestions for how much more time we need to get to LC?
15:43:06 <Steven> Erik: I have some actions to complete, the error handling for instance. I may or may not finish by next week. Some writing to do.
15:43:57 <Steven> Steven: It depends on your agenda Nick.
15:44:11 <Steven> Nick: I am quite oversubscribed already.
15:44:41 <Steven> ... Erik has something with bind
15:44:46 <Steven> ... I have dialog
15:44:57 <Steven> Steven: I have the rewriting of the intro
15:45:21 <Steven> \Erik: I did the bind function, so I should close the action
15:45:26 <Steven> s/\//
15:46:12 <Steven> Erik: I need to do multipart
15:46:25 <Steven> ... simple but needs some time allocated
15:46:43 <nvdbleek> ACTION-1946?
15:46:43 <trackbot> ACTION-1946 -- Nick Van Den Bleeken to Adjust schema file to allow one result element for Function element -- due 2013-05-15 -- OPEN
15:46:43 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1946
15:46:45 <Steven> Nick: I have some other stuff
15:47:03 <nvdbleek> ACTION-1937?
15:47:03 <trackbot> ACTION-1937 -- Nick Van Den Bleeken to Write a proposal for the xforms-action-error event instead of the current script exceptions. -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN
15:47:03 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1937
15:47:20 <Steven> Steven: We can close that
15:47:45 <Steven> Erik: I see several that I have done but not closed
15:48:30 <nvdbleek> ACTION-1928?
15:48:30 <trackbot> ACTION-1928 -- Steven Pemberton to Review intro to XForms -- due 2013-04-30 -- OPEN
15:48:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1928
15:48:49 <Steven> Steven: Started but not finished
15:48:56 <nvdbleek> ACTION-1923?
15:48:56 <trackbot> ACTION-1923 -- Steven Pemberton to Add text that submission will fail if the XML can't be converted to JSON -- due 2013-02-06 -- OPEN
15:48:56 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1923
15:49:16 <Steven> Steven: I will have to check that one
15:49:28 <nvdbleek> Steven did you address ACTION-1918?
15:49:33 <nvdbleek> ACTION-1918?
15:49:33 <trackbot> ACTION-1918 -- Steven Pemberton to Have a look at the vCARD example and replace it with a imaginary markup that has no XML notation -- due 2012-12-19 -- OPEN
15:49:33 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1918
15:49:53 <Steven> Steven: Will do
15:50:29 <Steven> Steven: So aim for end of this month for complete text?
15:50:46 <Steven> [concur]
15:51:00 <Steven> [AJDOURN]
15:51:03 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:51:04 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
15:51:06 <Zakim> -Steven
15:51:08 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:51:09 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:51:09 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, ebruchez, [IPcaller], nvdbleek
15:51:25 <Steven> s/JD/DJ/
15:51:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/09-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:52:08 <Steven> present+alain
15:52:10 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:52:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/09-forms-minutes.html Steven
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