IRC log of rdf-wg on 2013-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:07 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc
14:56:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:09 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:11 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 73394
14:56:11 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:12 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:56:12 [trackbot]
Date: 25 September 2013
14:56:23 [TallTed]
TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.25
14:56:39 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.992.aaaa
14:56:47 [pfps]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:56:47 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
14:57:14 [Zakim]
+Guus_Schreiber
14:57:14 [Zakim]
-Guus_Schreiber
14:57:14 [Zakim]
+Guus_Schreiber
14:57:21 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:04 [Zakim]
+Tobie
14:58:21 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Tobie
14:58:29 [Zakim]
+GavinC
14:58:33 [AndyS]
zakim, I am not tobie
14:58:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'I am not tobie', AndyS
14:58:41 [AndyS]
zakim, tobie is me
14:58:41 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.686.aabb
14:59:55 [Zakim]
+EricP
15:00:03 [gkellogg]
zakim, aabb is me
15:00:03 [Zakim]
+gkellogg; got it
15:00:15 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:00:19 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pfps, Guus_Schreiber, AndyS, GavinC, gkellogg
15:00:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gavinc, pfps, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, manu, yvesr, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:00:24 [Zakim]
+EricP
15:01:40 [Zakim]
+??P9
15:01:49 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:01:49 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:01:50 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:01:56 [yvesr]
Zakim, ??P9 is me
15:01:56 [Zakim]
+yvesr; got it
15:01:57 [pfps]
scribenick pfps
15:02:33 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:03:19 [Guus]
chair: Guus
15:03:33 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
15:03:46 [TallTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:46 [Zakim]
+TallTed; got it
15:03:47 [pfps]
Administration
15:03:47 [TallTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:47 [Zakim]
TallTed should now be muted
15:03:52 [pfps]
Minutes of last meeting
15:04:10 [pfps]
RESOLVED: accept minutes of last meeting
15:04:24 [pfps]
Action Item Review
15:04:24 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
15:04:46 [gavinc]
CLOSE ACTION-294
15:04:46 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-294.
15:05:13 [AndyS]
can close action 263
15:05:17 [pfps]
Guus: next meeting is next week
15:05:49 [gavinc]
ends at 2:00 AM on
15:05:51 [gavinc]
Sunday, November 3
15:06:00 [gavinc]
https://www.google.com/search?q=DST
15:06:03 [gavinc]
Yay semantic search ;)
15:06:22 [AndyS]
Close ACTION-263
15:06:22 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-263.
15:06:29 [gavinc]
Yes, a range of time zone files are wrong :P
15:06:47 [pfps]
TRIG
15:06:59 [pfps]
Guus: LCWD of Trig is published
15:07:16 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/
15:07:23 [pfps]
Guus: end of comments 11 October
15:07:24 [AndyS]
The Last Call period ends 11 October 2013. All comments are welcome.
15:07:59 [pfps]
Guus: all rec-track documents are at least in last call
15:08:04 [pfps]
Test suite for Semantics
15:08:16 [pfps]
Guus: no action on writing the test suite
15:08:42 [pfps]
pfps: what is required to make to the changes to bring the test suite up to date
15:08:42 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:08:46 [pfps]
sandro: I don't know
15:08:57 [Zakim]
+EricP
15:09:01 [ivan]
For DST: I am sorry, it was the other way round: Europe changes on the 27th of October, and the US changes on the 3rd of November, see http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/2013.html
15:09:10 [gavinc]
gkellogg has done all the Syntax ones ;)
15:09:32 [pfps]
guus: andy and gavin have done test suites so they know the new format
15:10:05 [pfps]
gavin: there are input and output documents of arbitrary format, described in a description document
15:10:16 [gavinc]
s/gavin/gkellogg
15:10:49 [pfps]
greg: changing the documents from RDF/XML to turtle or trig might be a good idea
15:11:05 [gavinc]
given that there are no semantics for datasets, testing them using data sets sounds... odd
15:11:11 [pfps]
sandro: turtle might be better, as that doesn't require doing anything with datasets
15:11:45 [pfps]
gregg: entering the old test suite into Mercurial might be a good first step
15:11:48 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:12:19 [pfps]
sandro: I could do a copy into Mercurial from the current CVS situation
15:12:28 [AndyS]
Current test suites (lang, RDF 2004) name input and output so TriG not needed.
15:13:12 [ericP]
what do we test in semantics that we don't test in turtle?
15:13:13 [Zakim]
+ +081165aacc
15:13:22 [AZ]
Zakim, aacc is me
15:13:22 [Zakim]
+AZ; got it
15:13:23 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:13:36 [pfps]
sandro: there was a thread on what changes need to be made to semantics tests
15:13:41 [Zakim]
-AZ
15:13:57 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:14:04 [AndyS]
zakim, IPCaller is me
15:14:04 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:14:50 [pfps]
action sandro: put semantics tests into mercurial
15:14:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-298 - Put semantics tests into mercurial [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-10-02].
15:14:57 [Zakim]
+AZ
15:15:03 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:15:21 [Zakim]
+EricP
15:15:34 [pfps]
guus: tests should be put into good shape soon
15:15:39 [pfps]
LC Comments on Concepts, Semantics
15:15:51 [pfps]
guus: issue 142 - sandro you have an action
15:16:16 [pfps]
sandro: the conversation on 142 is ongoing on www-archive
15:16:32 [gkellogg]
issue-142?
15:16:32 [trackbot]
issue-142 -- rdfs:Graph ? comment -- open
15:16:32 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/142
15:16:51 [ivan]
q+
15:16:56 [pfps]
guus: what happens if there is no agreement - there might be a formal objection
15:17:02 [pfps]
sandro: yes
15:17:13 [pfps]
guus: we can go forward to CR with an objection
15:17:35 [pfps]
sandro: but in the past there has been agreement on the situation, just disagreement on direction
15:17:52 [pfps]
sandro: right now there might not be agreement on situation
15:18:03 [gavinc]
+q
15:18:14 [ericP]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Sep/thread#msg55 issue-142 discussion on www-archive
15:18:26 [pfps]
sandro: may need to just say that there is no possibility for short-term progress
15:18:38 [ivan]
ack ivan
15:19:10 [pfps]
ivan: this situation may become problematic
15:19:34 [pfps]
sandro: but the worst outcome would be to require more discussion
15:20:11 [pfps]
sandro: comment from paul gross may be related
15:20:26 [AZ]
s/gross/groth/
15:21:33 [Guus]
ack gavinc
15:21:50 [pfps]
eric: jeremy wants a change, paul may just need clarification
15:22:44 [pfps]
gavin: i have a response in hand saying that paul's example is acceptable but just needs application-specific processing
15:22:49 [pfps]
guus: that's the situation
15:23:26 [pfps]
sandro: it might be useful to tell paul more about the situation
15:23:56 [Zakim]
+Souri
15:24:12 [Souri]
Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:24:17 [pfps]
action gavin: draft response to paul groth
15:24:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-299 - Draft response to paul groth [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-10-02].
15:24:28 [gavinc]
Zakim, who is talking?
15:24:42 [Zakim]
gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (44%)
15:25:12 [pfps]
guus: by mid-October all LC issues on Concepts and Semantics need to be resolved
15:25:44 [pfps]
pfps: a WG response by 2 October would be better
15:26:11 [Zakim]
-GavinC
15:26:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.707.861.aadd
15:26:43 [gavinc]
Zakim, aadd is me
15:26:43 [Zakim]
+gavinc; got it
15:27:09 [pfps]
sandro: guus - can you send a message about the timing issues
15:27:37 [Zakim]
-gavinc
15:27:41 [pfps]
pfps: what about jeremy's other comment
15:27:57 [pfps]
sandro: I think that that is part of the same issue
15:28:01 [Zakim]
+gavinc
15:28:15 [pfps]
guus: I'll try to express urgency for everything
15:28:37 [pfps]
Dataset Semantics
15:29:00 [pfps]
guus: two messages - one from antoine, one from sandro
15:30:19 [pfps]
az: the dataset semantics document has a lot of options
15:31:04 [pfps]
az: peter commented that there are many other options, this has the options that have been discussed
15:31:24 [pfps]
az: i have to respond to peter's comments - no comments from pat yet
15:31:45 [pfps]
guus: there is more time to work on notes than rec-track documents, so this is not so time critical
15:32:26 [pfps]
guus: sandro - what should be done with your message on dataset semantics?
15:33:10 [pfps]
sandro: when I wrote it I thought that it might be part of a note
15:33:18 [pfps]
guus: part of antoine's note?
15:33:22 [pfps]
sandro: not really
15:33:44 [pfps]
az: I haven't completely read sandro's proposal
15:34:15 [pfps]
az: I think that it is more about handling datasets that appear on the web, my note is not concerned about this, but could be expanded to there
15:34:57 [pfps]
sandro: my note is more about containers, and less about web access
15:35:27 [pfps]
guus: the message is about how to view datasets
15:35:42 [pfps]
guus: if this is to be (part of) a note then the wg has to make a decision
15:36:09 [pfps]
guus: antoine, what should next be done for your note - incorporate comments?
15:36:12 [pfps]
az: yes
15:36:21 [Arnaud]
Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:36:22 [pfps]
guus: then there needs to be a formal review
15:36:32 [pfps]
guus: the test suite has more importance
15:36:34 [Zakim]
+Arnaud
15:36:36 [pfps]
az: agreed
15:36:51 [pfps]
Turtle
15:36:58 [pfps]
guus: any process on comments
15:37:14 [pfps]
gregg: no progress, should be done this week
15:37:23 [pfps]
Datatype Semantics
15:37:30 [gkellogg]
s/gregg/gavinc/
15:37:32 [gavinc]
s/gregg/gavinc
15:37:45 [pfps]
guus: message from pat on change to datatype semantics
15:37:45 [gavinc]
I guess us north bay folks sound alike?
15:38:04 [pfps]
guus: pushback from peter
15:38:52 [pfps]
guus: priority is test suite and getting comments sorted out
15:39:05 [pfps]
AOB
15:39:53 [pfps]
guus: adjourned
15:39:53 [Zakim]
-Arnaud
15:39:58 [Zakim]
-Souri
15:39:59 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:40:01 [Zakim]
-gavinc
15:40:02 [Zakim]
-Sandro
15:40:02 [Zakim]
-gkellogg
15:40:03 [Zakim]
-AZ
15:40:04 [Zakim]
-TallTed
15:40:05 [Arnaud]
well, belated regrets
15:40:06 [Zakim]
-EricP
15:40:20 [Guus]
trackbot, end meeting
15:40:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:40:20 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.992.aaaa, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, AndyS, +1.415.686.aabb, EricP, gkellogg, Ivan, yvesr, Sandro, TallTed, +081165aacc, AZ,
15:40:23 [Zakim]
... Souri, +1.707.861.aadd, Arnaud
15:40:23 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:40:23 [Zakim]
-yvesr
15:40:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:40:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
15:40:29 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:40:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
15:40:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sandro to put semantics tests into mercurial [1]
15:40:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc#T15-14-50
15:40:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: gavin to draft response to paul groth [2]
15:40:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc#T15-24-17
15:40:36 [Arnaud]
I have a conflict until next week (included) for the first half hour of the call