14:01:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:01:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-dpub-irc
14:01:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:01:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:01:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:01:53 <trackbot> Date: 23 September 2013
14:01:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 59 minutes
14:39:07 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #dpub
14:45:13 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
14:46:10 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
14:48:56 <karen> karen has joined #dpub
14:54:34 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started
14:54:42 <Zakim> + +33.1.43.92.aaaa
14:55:10 <Zakim> +??P22
14:55:19 <mgylling> Zakim, P22 is me
14:55:19 <Zakim> sorry, mgylling, I do not recognize a party named 'P22'
14:55:30 <Pdanet> Pdanet has joined #dpub
14:55:51 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P22 is me
14:55:51 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
14:55:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:55:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:55:59 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #DPUB
14:56:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:56:13 <Zakim> + +1.413.325.aabb
14:56:53 <dauwhe> Zakim, aabb is dauwhe
14:56:53 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
14:56:55 <Hajar> Hajar has joined #dpub
14:56:58 <fjh> zakim, code?
14:56:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
14:57:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:57:16 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:57:16 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:57:26 <Zakim> + +1.505.665.aacc
14:57:28 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #dpub
14:57:30 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
14:57:32 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
14:58:07 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:58:17 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +33.1.43.92.aaaa (0%)
14:58:35 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:58:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see +33.1.43.92.aaaa, mgylling, Ivan, dauwhe, fjh, +1.505.665.aacc
14:58:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see Vlad, azaroth, Hajar, tzviya, Pdanet, karen, mgylling, fjh, dauwhe, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
14:58:39 <Zakim> + +1.201.748.aadd
14:59:16 <ivan> zakim, aadd is tzviya
14:59:16 <Zakim> +tzviya; got it
15:00:13 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
15:00:35 <ivan> Guest: Karen (karen) Myers, W3C
15:01:07 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
15:01:16 <Zakim> +plinss
15:01:21 <Zakim> + +1.781.970.aaee
15:01:31 <Vlad> zakim, aaee is me
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
15:02:20 <Zakim> + +1.503.456.aaff
15:02:43 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:02:58 <Zakim> +Bert
15:03:35 <tzviya> Markus opens meeting
15:03:45 <Zakim> + +329331aagg
15:04:01 <naitik> naitik has joined #dpub
15:04:25 <Sharad> Sharad has joined #dpub
15:05:14 <tzviya> Markus: today will discuss pagination task force
15:05:26 <tzviya> ...first half discuss wiki entries
15:05:50 <tzviya> ...social reading and annotations has come the farthest
15:06:04 <Zakim> +??P19
15:06:19 <mgylling> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Sep/0015.html
15:06:31 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
15:06:40 <tzviya> Markus: minutes approved
15:06:56 <tzviya> Markus: new members
15:07:11 <tzviya> ...Dave Cramer and Pierre
15:07:20 <karen> s/Pierre/Pierre Danet
15:07:29 <tzviya> Pierre: Pierre Danet of Hachette Livre
15:07:52 <tzviya> ...business rep at W3C and involved in IDPF
15:08:07 <tzviya> ...less technical and will be involved in use cases
15:08:21 <tzviya> Dave: Dave Cramer of hachette book group
15:08:56 <tzviya> ...bagen with typesetter, got involved in XML, HBG shifted to EPUB 2 and EPUB 3, involved in industry groups
15:09:24 <tzviya> markus: logistics: TPAC is in November. we will meet there
15:09:45 <tzviya> ...Visa takes time.
15:10:58 <tzviya> Agenda item: to new items on wiki http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory
15:11:53 <tzviya> Markus: Rob to take us through new use cases in social reading
15:12:20 <tzviya> Rob: Annotating parts of embedded resources
15:12:35 <Zakim> + +44.797.077.aahh
15:12:36 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_5 Pointer to the wiki
15:12:52 <madi> madi has joined #dpub
15:12:59 <Zakim> - +44.797.077.aahh
15:13:08 <mgylling> regrets: George Walkley
15:13:19 <tzviya> Rob: for example, point to just a rectangle within an image
15:13:37 <tzviya> Markus: does this include elements of hypertext
15:13:47 <Zakim> + +44.797.077.aaii
15:13:58 <madi> madi has joined from the UK
15:14:06 <ivan> zakim, aaii is madi
15:14:06 <Zakim> +madi; got it
15:14:10 <tzviya> Rob: that is <span> - resources that the DOM references, not the DOM itself
15:14:15 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_6
15:14:38 <tzviya> Rob: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_6 - user wants to annotate two parts of a resource
15:14:52 <tzviya> ...likely for comparison purposes
15:15:04 <tzviya> ...requirement is multiple targets
15:15:26 <tzviya> Ivan: would this be a URI identifying multiple targets?
15:16:17 <tzviya> Rob: all that you need to do is add additional has target relationships (note: please make sure this is correct)
15:16:32 <tzviya> ???: is this used for text only?
15:16:57 <tzviya> Rob: no, several use cases involve elements other than text, such as image, video
15:17:08 <ivan> s/???/pdanet/
15:17:21 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_7
15:17:37 <tzviya> Rob: annotate multiple parts or publications or resources within them
15:18:42 <tzviya> ...but two parts come from different areas, e.g. one character that appears in multiple books (Bilbo in the hobbit and the lord of the rings)
15:18:58 <tzviya> ...this is complicated and out (as Ivan noted)
15:19:20 <tzviya> Ivan: how do you uniquely identify a book?
15:19:24 <Pdanet> Yes, Ivan, it was Pierre
15:20:43 <tzviya> Rob: if products are off-line it is difficult to identify what a book is
15:21:04 <tzviya> Markus: IDPF will announce open anno project this week
15:21:10 <Pdanet> Sorry for my central Europe accent ))
15:21:17 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_1
15:21:51 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_2
15:21:55 <tzviya> Rob: croos format anno http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_1 - same content, different format
15:22:22 <fjh> annotations should be portable
15:22:24 <tzviya> ...http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_2 cross-version, anno maintained when version is updated
15:23:22 <dauwhe> s/croos/cross/
15:23:22 <tzviya> .....http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_3 maintain style - incorporates CSS into annotations - don't loose the styling that was part of annotation
15:24:02 <tzviya> ... similar in that don't lose annotation when shift layout
15:24:35 <tzviya> ...http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Advanced_5 - responsive design/content negotatiation with layout
15:24:58 <tzviya> s/layout/annotation
15:25:32 <tzviya> Pierre: what do you call the work ID?
15:25:53 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:25:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see +33.1.43.92.aaaa, mgylling, Ivan, dauwhe, fjh, +1.505.665.aacc, tzviya, Karen_Myers, plinss, Vlad, +1.503.456.aaff, Bert, +329331aagg (muted), ??P19, madi
15:25:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see madi, tmichel, Sharad, naitik, Bert, Vlad, azaroth, Hajar, tzviya, Pdanet, karen, mgylling, fjh, dauwhe, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
15:26:38 <tzviya> Rob: the identity identifies the content irrespective of where it appears
15:26:53 <tzviya> Pierre: this does not really exist yet.
15:27:19 <tzviya> Markus: We realize this. We have to work with this to get annotations to work
15:27:33 <ivan> q+
15:27:34 <tzviya> Markus: security use cases
15:28:23 <ivan> ack ivan
15:28:30 <tzviya> Ivan: Please notify email group that have updated wiki when new use case added
15:28:38 <tzviya> Sharad: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Security_UC#Security-1
15:29:23 <tzviya> ...publisher would like information to be available offline on authorized machine
15:30:00 <tzviya> ...requires encryption, authorization, decryption
15:31:10 <tzviya> ...http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Security_UC#Security-2
15:31:17 <tzviya> ...client side use case
15:31:38 <tzviya> ...user should have secure reader to access encrypted content
15:31:57 <tzviya> q+
15:32:29 <Zakim> -fjh
15:32:31 <azaroth> q+
15:33:12 <tzviya> Markus: recommend removing EPUB from requirements as this is for OWP
15:33:16 <azaroth> +1 re W3C vs EPUB
15:33:18 <Zakim> - +329331aagg
15:33:32 <mgylling> q?
15:34:40 <tzviya> Pierre: security rules are usually linked to business rules (number of pages, number of cookies...). Where are the details of the security process?
15:34:51 <Zakim> + +329331aajj
15:34:55 <azaroth> zakim, aacc is azaroth
15:34:55 <Zakim> +azaroth; got it
15:35:32 <mgylling> ack tzviya
15:35:49 <karen> Tzviya: one of issues of DRM in past is that it can inhibit usability
15:35:59 <karen> ...whatever security is added should enable full usability
15:36:05 <karen> ...and as it relates to accessibility
15:36:07 <mgylling> ack azaroth
15:36:25 <tzviya> Rob: this also impacts annotation
15:36:46 <tzviya> ...if you quote text, will impact annotation
15:36:50 <mgylling> q?
15:37:05 <tzviya> ... a combined security/anno use case would be helpful
15:38:04 <tzviya> Markus: pagination task force
15:38:20 <tzviya> ...Dave Cramer will lead
15:39:08 <tzviya> ...define scope, priorities, and help in kicking this off for Dave
15:39:43 <tzviya> ...We must not run out of time, so must focus on essential issues
15:40:35 <tzviya> Dave: how is what we are doing related to working CSS?
15:41:08 <tzviya> Markus: this is part of the risk. With the exception of few contributions, there has been little input from publishing
15:41:30 <tzviya> ...we need to describe basic tenets of pagination
15:42:34 <tzviya> Dave
15:42:45 <tzviya> Dave: we are being media-agnostic
15:43:13 <tzviya> ...working on CSS that will work in browsers, print, reading systems
15:43:24 <tzviya> +! to media agnostic
15:43:35 <ivan> s/+!/+1/
15:43:42 <tzviya> thanks
15:44:49 <azaroth> +1
15:46:37 <tzviya> Markus: we will keep CSS WG in loop the whole time and ask for feedback
15:47:01 <tzviya> ...one question for peter linss is who should liasons be?
15:47:11 <tzviya> ...Helen Sterns and ???
15:47:20 <ivan> s/???/Elika/
15:47:22 <dauwhe> s/Helen/Alan/
15:47:34 <tzviya> ...have been working on fragmentation and column work
15:48:05 <azaroth> s/Sterns/Stearns/
15:48:10 <tzviya> Markus: Setting priorities: Clarify priorities of publishers is important
15:48:21 <azaroth> (@alanstearns at Adobe)
15:48:51 <tzviya> ...we have built prioritization into use case template, but that will not highlight critical elements
15:49:00 <tzviya> ...this will also vary across publishing
15:49:14 <tzviya> Dave: people will tell you it's all critical
15:49:59 <tzviya> Peter: We may just need to gather a few things to throw at CSS WG first and see what can get done first
15:50:23 <tzviya> Markus: need an active team of contributors to work with Dave
15:51:00 <tzviya> Elka and Alan will hopefully participate
15:51:17 <tzviya> Dave: Would like to see someone from Pearson
15:51:31 <tzviya> ...they have done work on 4C textbooks
15:52:19 <tzviya> ...will go to Paul Belfonte
15:53:07 <tzviya> Ivan: Would still be helpful to give Karen pointers to non-W3C people who might be helpful
15:54:23 <tzviya> Markus: Alan Stearns of Adobe is very involved. What about organizations involved in IDPF?
15:54:46 <tzviya> ...e.g. B&N or iBooks?
15:56:05 <tzviya> VitalSource
15:57:04 <tzviya> Markus: Is there a model in mind?
15:57:29 <tzviya> ...Consider using the Japanese model
15:58:02 <tzviya> Dave: describe what should happen in every circumstance imaginable
15:58:07 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ Requirements for Japanese Text layout
15:58:10 <plinss> http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/
15:58:43 <tzviya> Markus: this is also about concrete functional requirements
15:59:28 <tzviya> ...e.g. is it enough to have headers and footers or do we need to transclude text?
16:00:00 <tzviya> Dave: it might make sense to start from typographic perspective because that is where the body of knowledge comes from
16:00:12 <tzviya> ...then shift to OWP
16:00:34 <tzviya> Markus: we target to spend a lot of TPAC F2F on pagination
16:00:54 <tzviya> ...to present whatever state our information is in at that point
16:01:13 <tzviya> ...do we know whether we will meet with CSS WG at TPAC, Peter?
16:01:32 <tzviya> Peter: I will bring it up
16:01:54 <tzviya> Markus: meet with Dave to continue planning
16:01:54 <mgylling> q?
16:02:09 <Zakim> -madi
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:02:15 <Zakim> -azaroth
16:02:16 <Zakim> - +329331aajj
16:02:17 <Zakim> -Vlad
16:02:17 <Zakim> -dauwhe
16:02:17 <Zakim> -tzviya
16:02:18 <Zakim> - +1.503.456.aaff
16:02:18 <Zakim> -mgylling
16:02:18 <Zakim> - +33.1.43.92.aaaa
16:02:19 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
16:02:21 <Zakim> -plinss
16:02:21 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:02:35 <Zakim> -Bert
16:03:23 <azaroth> Sorry for so many annotation use cases today, trying to do 3 or 4 a week so ended up with more than normal with the missed call
16:03:40 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:03:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P19
16:03:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see madi, tmichel, Sharad, Bert, Vlad, azaroth, Hajar, tzviya, Pdanet, karen, mgylling, fjh, dauwhe, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
16:04:49 <ivan> zakim, drop ??P19
16:04:49 <Zakim> ??P19 is being disconnected
16:04:50 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended
16:04:50 <Zakim> Attendees were +33.1.43.92.aaaa, mgylling, Ivan, +1.413.325.aabb, dauwhe, fjh, +1.505.665.aacc, +1.201.748.aadd, tzviya, Karen_Myers, plinss, +1.781.970.aaee, Vlad,
16:04:50 <Zakim> ... +1.503.456.aaff, Bert, +329331aagg, +44.797.077.aahh, +44.797.077.aaii, madi, +329331aajj, azaroth
16:05:09 <ivan> trackbot, stop telcon
16:05:09 <trackbot> Sorry, ivan, I don't understand 'trackbot, stop telcon'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:05:20 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:05:20 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:05:20 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:05:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/23-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:05:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:05:29 <RRSAgent> I see no action items