15:45:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:45:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-audio-irc
15:45:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:45:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
15:45:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
15:45:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
15:46:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:46:00 <trackbot> Date: 19 September 2013
15:46:07 <olivier> Chair: Olivier
15:46:16 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/1907.html
15:46:26 <olivier> Agenda+ Review of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
15:46:26 <olivier> Agenda+ Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3
15:46:29 <olivier> Agenda+ Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931
15:46:32 <olivier> Agenda+ ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897
15:46:35 <olivier> Agenda+ Behavior of source nodes on connect/disconnect http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1812
15:46:38 <olivier> Agenda+ DynamicsCompressorNode.reduction is read-only AudioParam ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg583
15:46:46 <olivier> Agenda+ limiting channel count through channelCount and channelCountMode limitations, in PannerNode et al http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg567
15:46:52 <olivier> Agenda+ AOB
15:46:57 <olivier> Agenda+ Next Meeting
15:58:56 <marcosc> marcosc has joined #audio
15:59:38 <marcosc__> marcosc__ has joined #audio
16:00:11 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:00:19 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:01:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:23 <olivier> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:01:23 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
16:01:54 <Zakim> + +33.1.84.88.aaaa
16:02:05 <padenot> yes
16:02:12 <olivier> zakim, aaaa is padenot
16:02:12 <Zakim> +padenot; got it
16:02:48 <joe> joe has joined #audio
16:03:32 <Zakim> + +1.617.871.aabb
16:03:51 <olivier> zakim, aabb is joe
16:03:51 <Zakim> +joe; got it
16:04:05 <rtoyg_> rtoyg_ has joined #audio
16:04:16 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #audio
16:04:30 <Zakim> +gmandyam
16:05:02 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aacc
16:05:15 <cwilso> zakim, aacc has cwilso and rtyog
16:05:15 <Zakim> +cwilso, rtyog; got it
16:05:24 <cwilso> zakim, aacc has rtoyg
16:05:24 <Zakim> +rtoyg; got it
16:05:25 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
16:05:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, olivier, padenot, joe, gmandyam, +1.650.214.aacc
16:05:28 <Zakim> +1.650.214.aacc has rtoyg
16:05:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, rtoyg_, joe, marcosc__, Zakim, RRSAgent, colinbdclark, eXhumed, tobie, johnwbyrd1, rtoyg, olivier, paul___irish, shepazu, mdjp, heath, chrislowis, cwilso,
16:05:28 <Zakim> ... padenot, toyoshiAw, trackbot
16:06:12 <olivier> agenda?
16:06:25 <olivier> zakim, pick a victim
16:06:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
16:06:46 <olivier> zakim, pick a victim
16:06:46 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:54 <cwilso> zakim, this is audio
16:06:54 <Zakim> ok, cwilso; that matches RWC_Audio()12:00PM
16:06:58 <olivier> trackbot, start meeting
16:07:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:07:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
16:07:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
16:07:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
16:07:03 <trackbot> Date: 19 September 2013
16:07:12 <olivier> zakim, pick a victim
16:07:12 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:17 <olivier> zakim, this is audio
16:07:17 <Zakim> ok, olivier; that matches RWC_Audio()12:00PM
16:07:20 <olivier> zakim, pick a victim
16:07:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose olivier
16:07:30 <olivier> Agenda+ Review of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
16:07:30 <olivier> Agenda+ Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3
16:07:33 <olivier> Agenda+ Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931
16:07:36 <olivier> Agenda+ ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897
16:07:39 <olivier> Agenda+ Behavior of source nodes on connect/disconnect http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1812
16:07:42 <olivier> Agenda+ DynamicsCompressorNode.reduction is read-only AudioParam ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg583
16:07:45 <olivier> Agenda+ limiting channel count through channelCount and channelCountMode limitations, in PannerNode et al http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg567
16:07:57 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:07:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda" taken up [from olivier]
16:08:06 <ehsan> ehsan has joined #audio
16:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.416.273.aaaa
16:08:26 <olivier> zakim, aaaa is ehsan
16:08:26 <Zakim> +ehsan; got it
16:10:00 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 1
16:10:00 <Zakim> agendum 1, Review of Action Items http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda, closed
16:10:02 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:02 <Zakim> 2. Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3 [from olivier]
16:10:04 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:10:04 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3" taken up [from olivier]
16:11:08 <olivier> olivier: fix was trivial
16:11:21 <olivier> cwilso: hope it was ok I didn't use a fork/branch
16:11:36 <cwilso> Normally, I would use a branch.
16:11:44 <cwilso> (for substantive changes)
16:11:45 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 2
16:11:45 <Zakim> agendum 2, Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3, closed
16:11:47 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:47 <Zakim> 3. Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931 [from olivier]
16:12:14 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:12:14 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931" taken up [from olivier]
16:12:20 <olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931
16:12:48 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise?
16:12:59 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: padenot (9%), olivier (4%), joe (9%)
16:13:42 <olivier> padenot: discussing whether to filter high frequency
16:14:08 <olivier> ... can be useful not to filter in some cases
16:14:26 <olivier> cwilso: it may be difficult to tell whether it's a use case where you wouldn't filter
16:14:35 <olivier> padenot: when you use an LFO?
16:14:56 <olivier> ... below 20Hz you know you are not going to use it to output sound
16:15:22 <olivier> cwilso: we don't have a switch to say whether to use a mathematical square wave
16:15:36 <olivier> ... is there a strong reason for doing that?
16:15:50 <olivier> joe: "that" means always or never filter?
16:16:03 <olivier> cwilso: the suggested change is to not require (MUST) to filter
16:16:25 <olivier> joe: think that's OK if we are not saying when filtering is optional or required
16:16:37 <olivier> ... let developers indicate explicitely what they want - down the line
16:17:22 <olivier> shepazu: worried about discrepancy between implementation
16:17:28 <olivier> ... it bothers me as a developer
16:17:45 <olivier> ... would want to know why implementations would filter or not
16:17:53 <olivier> ... that's a general opinion, not specific to this case
16:19:15 <olivier> cwilso: not sure we have had strong case for not filtering
16:19:37 <olivier> joe: if you are using as modulation source, you could be doing the wrong thing by filtering
16:19:53 <olivier> ... no perfect solution
16:20:04 <olivier> cwilso: maybe we should have a switch on oscillators
16:20:12 <olivier> ... audio oscillator vs mathematical oscillator
16:20:15 <olivier> shepazu: +1
16:21:00 <olivier> padenot: seems like a good solution to require filtering but allow addition of mathematical oscillator
16:21:57 <olivier> ACTION: padenot to document resolution of issue 127 (keep MUST) and add issue for the addition of a mathematically accurate oscillator
16:21:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Document resolution of issue 127 (keep must) and add issue for the addition of a mathematically accurate oscillator [on Paul Adenot - due 2013-09-26].
16:22:22 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 2
16:22:22 <Zakim> agendum 2, Review recent changes to specs https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/7c7a870abb7a23f3904d34b6135dfdd213c339f3, closed
16:22:24 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:24 <Zakim> 3. Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931 [from olivier]
16:22:25 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 3
16:22:25 <Zakim> agendum 3, Editor's question on Issue 127 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/127#issuecomment-24507931, closed
16:22:28 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:28 <Zakim> 4. ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897 [from olivier]
16:22:29 <olivier> agenda?
16:23:53 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:23:53 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Behavior of source nodes on connect/disconnect http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1812" taken up [from olivier]
16:24:57 <olivier> rtoyg_: discussion about disconnecting a source node when disconnected and reconnected
16:25:19 <padenot> you are very voipy here
16:25:45 <cwilso> zakim, who is making noise?
16:25:56 <Zakim> cwilso, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olivier (54%), +1.650.214.aacc (59%)
16:26:27 <olivier> rtoyg_: what does the audio source do. continue as paused, as it it had been playing, ...
16:27:13 <olivier> cwilso: split consensus on whether there was a per-sourcenode timeline or universal timeline
16:28:11 <olivier> ... ROC suggesting a patch-cable model where you have a single timeline always progressing
16:28:43 <olivier> ... Jer suggesting pausing model because data not going through
16:28:48 <olivier> ... (rough summary)
16:29:02 <olivier> shepazu: would this be a way people would use to pause a sound?
16:29:28 <olivier> cwilso: there was an article which was suggesting so
16:29:39 <olivier> ... I mentioned to them it was a bug, not a feature
16:30:00 <olivier> ... challenge with pausing the node is that for some sources it's not easy to pause
16:30:08 <olivier> ... e.g live mediastream
16:30:32 <cwilso> (or live audio input)
16:31:21 <olivier> action: cwilso to create an issue in github, summarise thread at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1812
16:31:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Create an issue in github, summarise thread at http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-audio/2013julsep/thread.html#msg1812 [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-09-26].
16:32:21 <olivier> olivier: find it interesting that developers use the spec that way
16:33:37 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 5
16:33:37 <Zakim> agendum 5, Behavior of source nodes on connect/disconnect http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1812, closed
16:33:39 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:33:39 <Zakim> 4. ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897 [from olivier]
16:33:43 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
16:33:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897" taken up [from olivier]
16:35:48 <olivier> cwilso: no ideal answer
16:35:58 <olivier> ... best answer probably the last round with ROC
16:36:22 <olivier> ... problem with leaks
16:36:37 <ehsan> q+
16:36:41 <olivier> ... it's hard to avoid that and avoid observability of GC
16:37:08 <olivier> ack ehsan
16:38:36 <olivier> ehsan: wanted to second what ROC said on the thread
16:38:56 <olivier> ... always an issue with eventtarget on the platform
16:39:12 <olivier> ... scriptprocessornode should probably not be an exception here
16:39:26 <olivier> cwilso: agree this is probably the best we can do
16:39:44 <olivier> ... problem is we made it so all nodes would just disappear when done
16:39:57 <olivier> ... but I have no better solution
16:40:16 <olivier> ... this will be something to highlight in spec and developer doc
16:40:23 <olivier> ehsan: there are other nodes
16:40:52 <olivier> cwilso: true, but more likely here. No point in using scriptprocessornode if you don't set the oncomplete event
16:41:12 <olivier> ehsan: counter-example is looping audiobuffersourcenode
16:41:31 <olivier> cwilso: but it wouldn't release
16:43:29 <cwilso> In short: we should carefully determine places where leaks are likely to happen, and properly evangelize anti-leaking patterns.
16:44:01 <olivier> olivier: guess we won't be doing anything about it but need to ack that it is imperfect
16:44:11 <olivier> cwilso: we need to add mention in the spec
16:45:12 <aut0mata> aut0mata has joined #audio
16:45:17 <olivier> action: ehsan to add issue in github about disconnected scriptprocessornode, mention to be added in the spec
16:45:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Add issue in github about disconnected scriptprocessornode, mention to be added in the spec [on Ehsan Akhgari - due 2013-09-26].
16:45:25 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 4
16:45:25 <Zakim> agendum 4, ScriptProcessorNode behavior without JavsScript references http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg1897, closed
16:45:28 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:45:28 <Zakim> 6. DynamicsCompressorNode.reduction is read-only AudioParam ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg583 [from olivier]
16:45:29 <olivier> agenda?
16:46:34 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 6
16:46:34 <Zakim> agendum 6. "DynamicsCompressorNode.reduction is read-only AudioParam ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg583" taken up [from olivier]
16:47:58 <olivier> ehsan: discussed a long time ago with crogers
16:48:38 <olivier> cwilso: agree that readonly float is rational given the use today
16:48:53 <olivier> cwilso: want to introduce side chaining
16:49:09 <olivier> ... use signal to duck the level of another signal
16:49:19 <olivier> ... used a lot in music
16:49:55 <olivier> ... having a side chain compression would be useful
16:50:01 <olivier> ... but would require changes to the spec
16:51:11 <olivier> cwilso: can see having reduction as direct output
16:51:53 <olivier> ... would still like for us to add side chain compression or have it as audionode so you can connect it
16:52:33 <olivier> ... way that I re-built vocoder was emulating that
16:53:15 <olivier> olivier: relevant for v1 or wishlist?
16:53:44 <olivier> cwilso: some exposure of this should be v1, but don't have a plan on how to do it
16:53:50 <marcosc> marcosc has joined #audio
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16:54:27 <olivier> cwilso: could do as scriptprocessornode but then adding latency
16:55:43 <olivier> olivier: asking ehsan - does this sound like an additional feature?
16:56:01 <olivier> ehsan: plannning to ship in 6 weeks, would rather not have any new feature in the API
16:56:27 <olivier> cwilso: not arguing this is a new feature for dynamic compression
16:56:35 <olivier> ... still think it is an important one
16:57:54 <olivier> cwilso: don't think this should be done in 6 weeks but then don't think everything else will
16:58:20 <olivier> ehsan: would like a solution that could be backward compatible
16:58:44 <olivier> ... we could just make it a float value
16:59:57 <olivier> cwilso: if I understand ehsan - you're saying that we're not solving the use case. Exposing it as readonly float for now, add side chaining as an additional feature later
17:00:24 <olivier> cwilso: agree that making it a readonly float is the right thing to do now
17:01:05 <olivier> ehsan: trust your judgement on usefulness of the use case
17:03:04 <olivier> action: cwilso to add issue to make compressor node reduction a readonly float
17:03:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Add issue to make compressor node reduction a readonly float [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-09-26].
17:03:30 <olivier> action: cwilso to document use case for side chain compression as issue in github,
17:03:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-77 - Document use case for side chain compression as issue in github, [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-09-26].
17:03:40 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 6
17:03:40 <Zakim> agendum 6, DynamicsCompressorNode.reduction is read-only AudioParam ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg583, closed
17:03:44 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:03:44 <Zakim> 7. limiting channel count through channelCount and channelCountMode limitations, in PannerNode et al http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/thread.html#msg567
17:03:44 <Zakim> ... [from olivier]
17:03:49 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 9
17:03:49 <Zakim> I only see 7 items on the agenda
17:03:58 <olivier> Topic: next meeting
17:04:49 <olivier> next meeting is scheduled for 3rd of October
17:05:38 <Zakim> - +1.650.214.aacc
17:05:41 <Zakim> -olivier
17:05:42 <Zakim> -ehsan
17:05:42 <Zakim> -gmandyam
17:05:44 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:05:52 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
17:21:19 <Zakim> -padenot
17:32:49 <marcosc> marcosc has joined #audio
17:35:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, joe, in RWC_Audio()12:00PM
17:35:02 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
17:35:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, olivier, padenot, joe, gmandyam, +1.650.214.aacc, +1.416.273.aaaa, ehsan
17:43:09 <johnwbyrd1> johnwbyrd1 has left #audio
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