12:58:28 RRSAgent has joined #rdfval 12:58:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/10-rdfval-irc 12:58:40 meeting: RDF Validation Workshop 13:00:18 dbooth has joined #rdfval 13:02:18 mib_ilzr9u has joined #rdfval 13:02:19 evrensirin has joined #rdfval 13:03:52 Anamitra has joined #rdfval 13:04:11 guoqian has joined #rdfval 13:04:28 mgh has joined #rdfval 13:04:59 GR has joined #rdfval 13:06:15 rmb has joined #rdfval 13:07:39 yoshi has joined #rdfval 13:07:53 martige_ has joined #rdfval 13:08:29 kcoyle has joined #rdfval 13:09:47 mesteban has left #rdfval 13:10:49 DaveReynolds has joined #rdfval 13:11:57 +[IPcaller] 13:18:42 labra has joined #rdfval 13:22:25 aisaac has joined #rdfval 13:23:53 +[IPcaller] 13:24:11 Zakim, IPcaller is me 13:24:11 +aisaac; got it 13:24:51 Meeting: RDF Validation Workshop 13:30:04 SteveS_ has joined #rdfval 13:30:34 mesteban has joined #rdfval 13:30:51 roger has joined #rdfval 13:30:57 Ashok_Malhotra has joined #rdfval 13:31:25 Miguel Esteban Gutiérrez - Center for Open Middleware (Universidad Politecnica de Madrid) 13:31:26 guoqian has joined #rdfval 13:31:43 sandro has joined #rdfval 13:32:36 Jose Labra presentation: My name is Jose Emilio Labra Gayo (University of Oviedo, Spain). I am interested in this workshop because we have a practical use case on the WebIndex and we have used a SPARQL queries based tool to validate RDF called Computex. We are also interested on RDF profiles 13:32:55 arthur has joined #rdfval 13:33:18 Graham Rong, PhD, from MIT has been working on semantic web application in financial industry 13:33:20 Sandro Hawke, W3C. Staff contact for RDF-WG, GLD-WG, and was for SPARQL, RIF, OWL, Prov 13:34:34 http://bit.ly/azitMU Consuming XBRL Financial Information: Semantic Web Prototype App Aims To Make It Easier, Faster, Automatic — And Socially Connected 13:34:42 http://bit.ly/RxzPyr Linking XBRL to RDF: The Road To Extracting Financial Data For Business Value 13:35:03 Roger Menday, Fujitsu Laboratories of Europe. Working on using Linked Data technologies in the Enterprise 13:35:10 Hello, my name is Guoqian Jiang from Mayo Clinic, Rochester MN. I am a clinical informatics researcher. My research interests focus on clinical data standards and using semantic web tools for data validation and quality assurance in health domain. 13:35:32 RRSAgent, pointer? 13:35:32 See http://www.w3.org/2013/09/10-rdfval-irc#T13-35-32 13:36:41 Harold Solbrig - Mayo Clinic. Focus on Ontologies in clinical research and standardized ontology representation. Editor and author of OMG LQS specification, HL7/ISO Common Terminology Services (CTS) and OMG CTS2. Participant in ISO 11179 and XMDR projects, IHTSDO SNOMED CT, WHO ICD-11 project. 13:37:00 nandana has joined #rdfval 13:37:23 David Booth, KnowMED. Applying RDF and other semantic web technology to medical records and other healthcare information to facilitate better research and help measure quality of care. 13:37:58 Oracle. Member of LDP WG. Worked on XML Schema for many, many years! 13:38:07 My name is Martin G. Skjæveland, PhD student from University of Oslo, Norway. Will present work on validating incoming RDF data based on what in the receiving dataset. 13:38:16 Arthur Ryman, IBM Rational, developed OSLC Resource Shape spec to fill the void where XML Schema lived, for documenting and specifying REST APIs for Linked Data 13:39:09 Robert Beideman - GS1 - Leveraging RDF and LOD to facilitate availability of trusted, authentic data about Products, Companies, and Services on the Web 13:40:22 Hello - I'm Mark Harrison from the Auto-ID Lab at the University of Cambridge. We have a close collaboration with GS1 in the development of technical standards for supply chain visibility, traceability and electronic pedigree and we've recently been involved in the GS1 Digital project, which is looking at ways to use Linked Open Data for products 13:40:24 Anamitra - IBM/Maximo - RDF data introspection 13:40:42 Evren Sirin - Clark & Parsia, We develop Stardog RDF database that provide RDF validation capabilities 13:42:06 timCole has joined #rdfval 13:42:33 Arnaud Le Hors ("Arno Luh Oarss"), IBM Linked Data Standards Lead, chair of the LDP WG and of this workshop (former W3C Team member :-) 13:43:14 Tim Cole, Univ of Illinois and W3C Open Annotation Community Group 13:44:02 zakim, who's on the phone? 13:44:02 On the phone I see +1.617.715.aaaa, dbs, DaveReynolds (muted), aisaac 13:44:42 Zakim, who is here? 13:44:42 On the phone I see +1.617.715.aaaa, dbs, DaveReynolds (muted), aisaac 13:44:43 On IRC I see timCole, nmihindu, arthur, sandro, guoqian, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, SteveS_, aisaac, labra, DaveReynolds, kcoyle, mSkjaeveland, rmb, GR, mgh, Anamitra, evrensirin, 13:44:43 ... DavidBooth, RRSAgent, hsolbri, Zakim, Arnaud, dbs, ericP 13:45:44 Steve Speicher - IBM SWG Rational - LDP Editor - OSLC community/standards, I work with arthur 13:46:08 Dave Reynolds, Epimorphics Ltd. Part of GLD working group co-editing Data Cube and Org specs. Among other things work with UK public sector on use of Linked Data which has raised a number of validation-like requirements. 13:47:21 aisaac is Antoine Isaac, from Europeana - previously working on SKOS. Interested in getting good quality data from numerous, heterogeneous datasets 13:49:12 Eric is presenting http://www.w3.org/2012/12/rdf-val/SOTA 13:50:26 Ashok_Malhotra: When we started RDF, folks said it was great BECAUSE it had no schema. Are we changing our mind? 13:50:33 Arnaud: Sounds like JSON :-) 13:51:09 hsolbri: 13:51:30 DaveReynolds: There are lots of different schemas in RDF. 13:51:48 s/DaveReynolds/DavidBooth/ 13:51:57 PDF version of my charts at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/File:OSLC_Resource_Shapes.pdf 13:52:10 (who is scribing? Arnaud?) 13:52:37 sandro, did you just volunteer? ;-) 13:52:46 scribe: sandro 13:52:50 thank you 13:53:08 hsolbri, can you type in what you said to Ashok? I didn't catch it. 13:54:13 ssimister_ has joined #rdfval 13:54:22 topic: Presentation from Mark Harrison (U Cambrdige) 13:55:01 Robert: GS1 - we did bar codes. We work with the Auto-Id Labs (at MIT) 13:55:12 s/at MIT/started here at MIT/ 13:55:37 .. GS1 digital, trying to leveral all the master data in the supply chain, business-to-consumer 13:56:16 Mark: (slide with iPones, LOD for products, Pre-Sale) 13:56:38 RRSAgent, pointer? 13:56:38 See http://www.w3.org/2013/09/10-rdfval-irc#T13-56-38 13:57:11 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:57:57 .. more informed choices, eg products with particular environmental impact 14:00:16 -> http://www.w3.org/2012/12/rdf-val/submissions/GS1%20Digital%20-%20W3C%20RDF%20Validation%20Workshop.pdf Mark Harrison's slides 14:00:41 [slide 8] 14:00:51 [slide 9] 14:03:13 ssimister has joined #rdfval 14:05:02 Mark: do we want broken hyperlink checking? 14:05:28 ... (can we validate offline) 14:06:04 ... what is the scope/boundary of what we validate? 14:06:22 mark: When we have these huge code lists, the scale of validation queries might be problematic 14:07:09 Mark: 3000 attributes, hundreds of which are code-list-driven 14:08:09 Focus on markup and validation tools rather than the actual validation 14:08:11 + +1.510.435.aabb 14:08:35 zakim, please mute aabb 14:08:35 +1.510.435.aabb should now be muted 14:08:48 Zakim, aaaa is Workshop_room 14:08:48 +Workshop_room; got it 14:08:55 zakim, please unmute aabb 14:08:55 +1.510.435.aabb should no longer be muted 14:11:28 +1, publishing and inspecting the contract is at least as important as enforcing the contract 14:11:33 hsolbri: Happy to see these use cases. I think RDF "validation" is not the best framing. I think it's MORE important to publish the characters of what's in a store, rather than just validating. 14:12:08 arthur: This sounds a lot like what we've done at IBM. Can you describe.... 14:13:02 mark: It's about making sure you can ... We need to make sure the two datasets are in sync with each other. You need to have confidence that these are the true values asserted by manufacturer. Maybe we could use Dig. Sigs. There's liability to consider. 14:13:26 arthur: you're comparing published data with Reference data. you don't need to comopute a sig 14:13:35 mark: true, we could use prov as an alterantive to sigs 14:13:55 hsolbri has joined #rdfval 14:14:13 GS1 uses cases very similar to OSLC, except for digital signatures 14:14:29 timcole: The issue cardinality, not validations. Value is correct... unit transformations. 600g = 1.2lbs or whatever. Are you encompassing that in validation? 14:14:34 mark: Yes. 14:14:58 mark: like in eric's example of Reproducted Date -- you want to do checking like that, with units conversion 14:15:28 .. EU legislation says vitamins are expressed in certain units. Sanity checking on values -- to make sure we're not off my orders of magnitude 14:15:39 timCole: Does broaden the scope. 14:15:41 mark: Yes. 14:16:08 Robert: We used to have a closed network for this. To open it to millions of producers makes this more complex. 14:16:34 Ashok_Malhotra: If you want to test whether this date follows this other date, there are xquery functions to handle all of that stuff. So we can just pick them up. We don;t have to invent them again 14:16:41 mark: We should leverage what we can, yes. 14:16:54 mark: And using qudt for conversion of units, and so on. 14:17:11 topic: Harld Solbrig, Mayo Clinic 14:17:20 (slides) 14:18:08 hsolbri: we had "strings" where were kind of like rdf graphs. a ptext code was a sort of ontology 14:18:14 mgh has joined #rdfval 14:18:26 ptxt 14:20:23 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/9/94/GS1_Digital_-_W3C_RDF_Validation_Workshop.pdf Harold Solbrig's slides 14:21:04 Slides by Mark Harrison and Robert Beideman 14:22:12 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/7/77/RDF_Validation.pptx Harold Solbrig's slides 14:22:28 Arnaud has changed the topic to: W3C RDF Validation Workshop - http://www.w3.org/2012/12/rdf-val/agenda (upload slides to: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Special:Upload - preferably PDF or HTML) 14:22:32 hsolbrig: from ptxt to ASN.1 14:23:27 Slides by Mark Harrison and Robert Beideman are at "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/9/94/GS1_Digital_-_W3C_RDF_Validation_Workshop.pdf" 14:23:30 hsolbri: RDF only guarantees triples, literals 14:25:53 hsolbri: With SPARQL, you have to code EVERYTHING as optional! 14:25:59 In SPARQL need to use OPTIONAL extensively for defensive coding in case value is not present 14:26:03 hsolbri: ... which is NP 14:26:59 hsolbri: SIde note: Dataset (identity is content), Triple store (Identity separate from content) 14:27:38 hsolbri: a definition about what is RDF store 14:28:20 hsolbri: We should focus on the invariants in an RDF store. The synax MUST provide a way to state the invariants. What will always be true of this store, so when you're writing queries, you know what's optional, what can be in there, what can't be in there. 14:28:32 hsolbri: We need a way for them to be published, and for them to be discovered. 14:28:48 hsolbri: Future -- invariants will change over time. 14:28:48 hsolbri:RDF validation must provide a standard syntax and semantics for describing RDF invariants 14:29:14 hsolbri: Semantic Versioning. semver.org 14:29:26 hsolbri: That was the MUST. Here's the SHOULD. 14:29:41 .. representable in RDF, maybe also a DSL 14:29:53 .. formally verifiable, consistent, maybe complete 14:29:59 .. self-defining 14:30:18 .. able to express subset of UM 2. class and attribute assertions (and some OCL?) 14:30:31 .. able to express XML Schema invariants 14:30:52 .. implementable in exising tooling and infrastructure (RDF, SPARQL, REST, ...) 14:31:05 (this is slide 17) 14:33:49 hsolbri: Example of allowed transitions -- you're allowed to add subjects, but not to add predicates. 14:34:12 .. spectrum from read-only to write-any-triple. 14:37:57 hsolbri: LOD today OK for research but not for production systerms 14:38:33 ... OK for relatively static stores but not for federation and evolution 14:38:58 Question for Harold: Just checking, when you say "All constraints of XML Schema", this includes sequences? 14:39:36 guoqian: You're offering another definition of "store". Is this different from existing defn of named graphs? 14:40:24 hsolbri: I'd have to go back and look at that. I think Named Graphs are local to quad store. ANd I'm focussing on having the identity of a store, but have the contents be constrainted. 14:40:25 q+ 14:40:37 ack sandro 14:41:04 sandro: as i understand SPARQL11 terminology, a "graph store" can have multiple "states" 14:41:19 ... so you're talking about a particular graph store to only contain certain datasets 14:41:32 q+ 14:42:21 Arnaud: people use the term "graph" sometimes to mean something mutable or not, gboxes and gsnaps. 14:42:39 ack aisaac 14:42:41 hsolbri: "magic box" was a term we onces used. 14:43:12 aisaac: I heard Harold say he wants to represent all that's allowed by XML Schema. Does that include Sequence Information? 14:43:24 q+ 14:44:06 hsolbri: Great question. There are situations where people take advantage of order, but this may be a drawback. so, maybe MOST of XML schema. The challenge is how to get it back out in the right order.... 14:44:55 Arnaud: We have on the agenda a presentation from Noah Mendelson, to talk about XML Schema, warning us against reproducing some of their mistakes. 14:45:07 ack arthur 14:45:10 Arnaud: Some people will say 20/80 rule, but which 80? 14:45:29 Arnaud: Your summary slide was a bit disappointing/negative. 14:45:40 s/Arnaud/Arthur/ 14:46:08 hsolbri: I believe fixing this is necessary to to make RDF able to be a primary source for content. 14:46:15 q+ 14:46:57 JimMcCusker has joined #rdfval 14:47:03 arthur: I consider your second negative to be a positive. It's why we've adopted RDF. Traditional data warehouses are very expensive because they completely enforce the schema. RDF allows more graceful evolution. 14:48:17 hsolbri: So, the flexibility of RDF is seen as a real advantage. A fellow at OMG used to distinguish between precise and detailed. We publish the invariants that are known, but it's important to be able to leave flexibility. If we make no assertion about firsttname and lastname, then that's important to know, too. 14:48:21 ack evrensirin 14:48:51 evrensirin: Graceful evolution of data is an advantage of RDF. That's not about enforcement of schema, but about having the option to not have a schema. 14:49:11 evrensirin: Clarification on post-conditions. State transitions, or states? 14:50:06 hsolbri: Closely related to reasoning. If you're doing anything beyong a basic PUT, adding a triple to a store may involve doing additional inferences, eg adding a firstname may result in the presence of a fullname in a store. 14:50:25 .. what has to be true for this set of rules to fire; what is true if they do. 14:50:33 (not sure I scribed that right!) 14:51:01 topic: Miguel Gutierrez presentation 14:51:36 topic: Miguel Esteban-Gutiérrez presentation 14:51:53 slides --> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/3/3f/RVW2013-RDFValidationInALinkedData_World.pptx 15:15:49 roger has joined #rdfval 15:16:23 arthur has joined #rdfval 15:17:24 - +1.510.435.aabb 15:17:38 My slides are at: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/4/43/Dave-reynolds-validation-slides.pdf 15:29:53 -dbs 15:32:08 ssimister has joined #rdfval 15:35:08 +??P68 15:36:44 Paul Davidson's video: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-KHr8T2fP_KNXd0cm4wTG9hSjA/edit 15:37:24 Zakim, ??P68 is dbs 15:37:24 +dbs; got it 15:37:37 SteveS has joined #rdfval 15:39:26 aisaac - I'd be happy to swap slots, though that'll only save you 5 mins 15:40:09 scribe: arthur 15:40:16 mgh has joined #rdfval 15:40:37 video of Linked Data Profiles by Paul Davidson up next 15:40:43 hsolbri has joined #rdfval 15:41:05 @DaveRaynolds: thx a lot - let's see what happens with the others, and decide during Dave Booth's presentation? 15:42:46 aisaac, we can have you sooner 15:43:26 aisaac, how about you go just after Roger? 15:43:46 ok 15:44:52 Pauls wants a "Linked Data Profile" that describes the properties, values, etc., that should be used so that multiple coucils in England can share data 15:45:07 rmb has joined #rdfval 15:45:32 Roger up next 15:45:59 Roger's slides: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/File:20130909_rdfvalidation.pdf 15:46:03 described used of REST APIs at Fujitsu 15:46:12 +1 Paul Davidson, make it easier to share municipal data 15:46:20 participating in LDP activity 15:47:21 + +1.510.435.aacc 15:47:25 need to descibe parameters to create resources (Progenitor) 15:49:07 use case: enable robots to fill in forms 15:50:04 proposed a vocab (f:parameterSet ...) to be included in an LDP container 15:50:11 my slides on slideshare: http://www.slideshare.net/antoineisaac/europeana-rdf-validation 15:50:20 PDF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/6/6f/Europeana_RDFValidation.pdf 15:51:04 Next: Antoine Isaac - Europeana and RDF data Validation 15:51:44 aggregates data from multiple sources (musems) and need to enforce constraints 15:52:55 described as table: property, occurence, range 15:53:28 using OWL now 15:54:33 EDM is implemented as XML Schema (for RDF) with Schematron rules 15:54:48 EDM = Europeana Data Model 15:55:47 Also using Dublin Core Description Set 15:57:33 OWL = hard, SPARQL = low-level 15:57:37 David Booth's slides: http://dbooth.org/2013/validation/dbooth-slides.pdf 15:58:39 DaveDolan has joined #rdfval 15:59:04 Next - David Booth - 16:00:11 topic: Thoughs on Healthcare 16:00:40 -- Schema promiscuous - why RDF? 16:01:38 Bye folks. It was a great morning. Enjoy the rest of your day, and thx a lot for the slide moving! 16:01:40 multiple schema, multiple data sources 16:01:50 -aisaac 16:02:21 ==> need multiple perspectives on validation of the same data 16:03:47 wish list: build on SPARQL, 16:04:16 use SPARQL UPDATE to build intermediate results (instead of one giant SPARQL query) 16:04:30 check URI patterns 16:05:07 must be incremental so you can do it continuously, e.g. like rgression testing 16:06:03 declarative is too awkward for complex rules ==> need operational (imperative) - SPARQL UPDATE pipelines 16:06:25 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/4/43/Dave-reynolds-validation-slides.pdf 16:06:57 Next - Dave Reynolds - Validate requirements and approaches 16:07:44 currently working with UK gov - multiple vocabs, manual docs, each publsiher validates their data 16:08:21 need a shared validation approach - need to specify "shape" of data 16:08:46 declarative rules are desirable 16:09:13 understandable by "mortals" 16:09:17 Interesting - does Reynold's declarative requirement clash with Booth's procedural? 16:10:11 cites W3C Datacube vocab 16:10:28 Harold, I think it depends on the complexity of the validation check. If it can be expressed in a simple declarative rule, then that is easiest. My point is that for more complex checks, operational is needed. 16:10:52 SPARQL used to express Datacube integrity constraints 16:11:21 SPARQL queries hard to understand 16:12:03 for irregular data, OWL is also too hard 16:12:38 need ability to validate against external services such as registries 16:13:03 need to specify controlled terms too 16:13:32 END OF LIGHTNING TALKS 16:13:41 Start discussion 16:13:55 Topic: Discussion 16:14:53 Arnaud framing discussion - what do we need? What can we afford? 16:16:14 Harold - compare need for procedural steps versus declarative constraints 16:18:10 Harold - must declarative description also be executable (for validation) e.g. by translation to SPARQL 16:18:35 mesteban has joined #rdfval 16:18:56 Harold - e.g. in many cases, the datastore content is already valid, so the missing capability is to advertise what's in a store 16:19:30 zakim, +q 16:19:30 I see DaveReynolds on the speaker queue 16:19:31 q+ to discus XML Schema/RNG + schematron 16:19:43 q+ 16:19:58 David - desirable to have high-level specification that is translatable to an executable language (SPARQL) 16:20:42 ack dave 16:20:54 Arnaud - use the IRC queue system "q+" to get on queue 16:21:32 David: Want the best of both worlds: declarative when a constraint can be easily expressed that way, while allowing fall back to SPARQL when necessary. So to my mind the ideal would be declarative *within* the SPARQL framework. 16:21:47 ack eric 16:21:47 ericP, you wanted to discus XML Schema/RNG + schematron 16:21:52 Dave - SPARQL is too low level - need high-level description 16:22:24 Eric - uses multiple schema langauges XSD, RelaxNG, Schematron 16:22:56 ack evren 16:23:10 Eric - we'll probably have a high-level validation language that is extensible with low-level rules in SPARQL, JS, etc 16:23:11 UML has Class, property and OCL (schematron equivalent) 16:24:09 Evren - SPARQL has extension points. Concern about SPARQL UPDATE since it changes data 16:24:19 q+ 16:24:26 David - didn't imply to actually change data 16:24:30 ack timcole 16:24:38 q+ Preconditions validate state of incoming data, postconditions "side effects" 16:24:55 q+ 16:25:11 ack hsolbri 16:25:25 q+ 16:25:30 Tim - OWL wasn't developed for validation, SPARQL wasn't developed for validation - why not have a language without baggage 16:25:47 mgh has joined #rdfval 16:26:18 Harold - we should be informed by UML 16:26:47 ack ashok 16:26:52 s/ - /: /g 16:27:56 Ashok: should split up problem, 1) state, 2) structure, 3) constraints 16:28:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:28:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/10-rdfval-minutes.html DavidBooth 16:28:34 rrsagent, make logs public 16:29:17 Arnaud: perspectives are 1) validation, 2) description 16:29:46 Eric: description should be translatable to SPARQL, SPIN, whatever 16:29:50 q+ to say if it isn't compatible, I think we need a good justification as to why. 16:30:11 ack hsolbri 16:30:11 hsolbri, you wanted to say if it isn't compatible, I think we need a good justification as to why. 16:30:20 Eric: cites Stephan Decker proposal to translate description into SPARQL 16:30:42 q+ to talk about what we can afford with sparql translation 16:30:50 q+ to say that coverage of all triples may be tricky in SPARQL 16:30:56 q+ to talk about RDF profiles 16:31:04 Harold: cites project to translate UML -> Z - SPARQL 16:31:09 ack evren 16:31:09 evrensirin, you wanted to talk about what we can afford with sparql translation 16:31:31 hsholbri: working on translating from UML to Z to Sparql 16:31:52 Evren: translation is good implementation strategy, but not for state transitions 16:31:56 q+ 16:32:02 q+ to say proposed requirement - invariants (and rules?) expressible in RDF 16:32:16 q+ Can use SPARQL by refering to multiple graphs 16:32:33 ack eric 16:32:33 ericP, you wanted to say that coverage of all triples may be tricky in SPARQL 16:32:49 Chair: Arnaud Le Hors and Harold Solbrig 16:33:04 David: use multiple graphs or datasets to describe pre/post conditions 16:33:47 ack labra 16:33:47 labra, you wanted to talk about RDF profiles 16:33:47 q- 16:34:48 Labra: descibes work on RDF validation based on profiles 16:35:26 Labra: like Schematron, using SPARQL instead of XPath 16:35:38 ack hsolbri 16:35:38 hsolbri, you wanted to say proposed requirement - invariants (and rules?) expressible in RDF 16:36:32 Harold: SPARQL not using RDF (unlike SPIN) - we should require an RDF representation 16:36:36 q+ about rdf syntax for constraints 16:36:49 ack evren 16:36:53 hsolbri:SPARQL should be able to be defined in RDF with meta data 16:37:00 q+ to ask if the expressivity of SPIN in RDF is of opperational valye 16:37:18 Evren: SPIN is going to allow a literal string of SPARQL 16:37:22 q? 16:37:30 Harold: don't want to parse another grammar 16:37:50 Evren: SPIN has both - RDF based and literal SPARQL string 16:38:45 ack eric 16:38:45 ericP, you wanted to ask if the expressivity of SPIN in RDF is of opperational valye 16:39:33 Evren: what is the value of the RDF representation of SPARQL in SPIN? Is this just for query governance? 16:40:24 q+ to say I think a main reason for the RDF-based SPIN syntax is the ability to change namespaces in the query 16:40:24 Harold: RDF is useful for impact analysis 16:40:34 ack david 16:40:34 DavidBooth, you wanted to say I think a main reason for the RDF-based SPIN syntax is the ability to change namespaces in the query 16:40:50 q+ validation results 16:41:02 ack steve 16:41:11 q= 16:41:27 queue= 16:41:30 q+ 16:41:33 Steve: need to also see why validation fails 16:41:37 ack hsolbri 16:42:32 q+ to say one thing I particularly like about SPIN CONSTRUCT rules is the ability to attach arbitrary data to a validation error 16:42:38 hsolbri: meta-repository may be an argument for RDF validation 16:42:41 ack david 16:42:41 DavidBooth, you wanted to say one thing I particularly like about SPIN CONSTRUCT rules is the ability to attach arbitrary data to a validation error 16:42:45 Harold: metadata merging is important so RDF is useful in that use case 16:43:07 David" SPIN CONSTRUCT rules allow attachment of other data 16:43:37 I'd like the validation results to not only provide a useful message that a tool could possibly recover, but also the context such as the triples causing problem and rules that cause it (some guidance on how to become validate would be helpful) 16:44:00 Arnaud: need to discuss what is affordable 16:44:34 Arnaud: need to prioritize what we can do in a 2-year period 16:44:57 Arnaud: experience shows that the experience of developing standards in charter groups can be brutal [laughs] 16:45:12 End 16:45:14 - +1.510.435.aacc 16:45:16 -DaveReynolds 16:45:26 Break for lunch courtesy of W3C 16:45:51 -dbs 17:01:41 ssimister has joined #rdfval 17:04:44 check out this w3c spec that contains Z notation http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl20/wsdl20-z.html 17:10:57 DaveReynolds has left #rdfval 17:12:10 Kerfors has joined #rdfval 17:18:36 mSkjaeveland has joined #rdfval 17:23:45 mib_6pv4km has joined #rdfval 17:24:26 guoqian has joined #rdfval 17:24:42 mib_6pv4km has left #rdfval 17:25:27 guoqian: my presentation slides: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/images/d/d6/RDF-Validation-Workshop-GJiang-v1.0.pdf 17:26:26 TimCole has joined #rdfval 17:47:55 SteveS has joined #rdfval 17:50:57 rmb has joined #rdfval 17:56:36 ddolan has joined #rdfval 17:57:10 roger has joined #rdfval 17:57:11 hsolbri has joined #rdfval 17:57:32 Topic: Guoquin Jian presentation - Mayo Clinic 17:58:21 s/Jian/Jiang/ 17:58:40 zakim, who's on the phone? 17:58:40 On the phone I see Workshop_room 18:02:24 + +1.510.435.aadd 18:02:38 Slide 1: Secondary Use of EHR Data 18:03:13 Slide 2: Dimensions of data quality and quality assessment 18:03:29 Slide 3: Use of Data Standards 18:04:32 Slide 4: Clinical Info Modelling Initiave 18:04:50 Slide 5: CIMI Ideas 18:05:34 Slide 6: Sdantardized clinical info models for secondary use 18:06:26 Slide 7: Clinical Element Models: -- Authored in CDL distributed as XML Schema 18:06:41 Slide 8: Architecture 18:07:48 Clinical Element Models converted to XML Schema, Instance data to XML then Schema to OWL and instance to RDF 18:08:37 Slide 9: Screen shot - Clinical Admin Browser. Publicly available 18:09:27 Slide 10: CEMs from XML to OWL 18:09:50 Slide 11: Check constraints and validate 18:10:05 ... Use SPARQL 18:10:25 Eric: Is SPIN generated fron Schema 18:10:41 Jiang: No, by hand ... perhaps in future' 18:11:13 Slide 12: Another SPARQL example 18:11:45 Slide 13: Standardized Semantic Web Services 18:12:35 Slide 14: Background on CIMI model 18:12:53