14:02:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
14:02:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/09-pf-irc
14:03:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:03:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
14:03:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
14:03:03 <Zakim> WAI_PF matches both WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM and WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM
14:03:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
14:03:04 <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2013
14:03:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
14:03:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
14:03:27 <clown> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:27 <Zakim> sorry, clown, I don't know what conference this is
14:03:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
14:03:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, clown, jcraig, richardschwerdtfeger, jongund, MichaelC, janina, trackbot
14:03:37 <clown> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jon_Gunderson, [GVoice], James_Craig
14:03:44 <Zakim> +Rich
14:03:49 <Zakim> +??P3
14:03:51 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:03:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P3 is Michael_Cooper
14:03:53 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
14:03:53 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
14:04:00 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:04:00 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:04:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Sep/0010.html
14:07:46 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
14:08:19 <janina> Hi, I'll be there soon. HTML-A11Y Coordination call going long.
14:09:24 <scott_gonzalez> scott_gonzalez has joined #pf
14:10:15 <jcraig> Joseph: test case 509 isn't working. (link?)
14:10:53 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=509
14:12:04 <jcraig> s/isn't working/isn't showing up in any testrun/
14:12:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+view
14:14:33 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=734
14:16:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Sep/0010.html
14:16:36 <clown> scribenick:  richardschwerdtfeger
14:17:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> jcraig: checking to see if I have an action for aria-describedat 1.1 first draft
14:18:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: do you think you might have a draft?
14:18:08 <Zakim> +??P2
14:18:13 <janina> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:18:13 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:18:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> jcraig: yes, by the end of the month
14:18:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: jcraig
14:18:58 <jcraig> Zakim, next item
14:18:58 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:19:00 <clown> action-967?
14:19:00 <trackbot> action-967 -- Janina Sajka to work with Rich to work with DAISY establish a structural navigation model for ARIA landmarks related to comment 362 -- due 2012-05-01 -- OPEN
14:19:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967
14:19:38 <jcraig> TOPIC: UAIG
14:20:32 <jcraig> Joseph: created a 1.1 implementation guide at last meeting, michael had doubts as to the need.
14:21:05 <jcraig> MC: Debated branching versus updating for implementation guide.
14:21:41 <jcraig> RS: Hoping to have IndieUI in LC/CR by the ARIA 1.1 timeframe.
14:22:03 <jcraig> JS: IndieUI Events 1.0 seems to be on track for that.
14:22:29 <jcraig> RS: I think we need a 1.1 implementation guide
14:22:55 <jcraig> MC: No strong opinion, but I think the 1.0 implementation guide could just be updated for 1.1 spec
14:25:14 <jcraig> JC: Also in ARIA 1.1 are the text and switch roles, maybe others.
14:25:54 <jcraig> RS: I heard 2015 for the ARIA 1.1 LC, to coincide with HTML
14:26:03 <jcraig> s/2015/2016/
14:26:24 <jcraig> MC: I think we discussed 2015 for 1.1.
14:27:02 <jcraig> MC: And FPWD of ARIA 2.0 in 2014.
14:27:55 <jcraig> MC: public timeline for ARIA 2.0 FPWD is listed as 2017.
14:28:05 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/project/ PF specification timeline planning
14:28:39 <jcraig> MC: _missed_
14:29:01 <jcraig> RS: Can certainly vet the requirements for 2.0.
14:29:33 <clown> action-1219?
14:29:33 <trackbot> action-1219 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UAIG: passive RFC requirement: two instances of "The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance" Who is this requirement for? Authors? UA? AT? Be specific. What does "trimmed out" mean? Be specific. -- due 2013-05-14 -- OPEN
14:29:34 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1219
14:29:44 <MichaelC> s/_missed_/We can update the timelines in the planning page if needed, particularly if tight dependency on HTML and they change their timeline/
14:29:55 <jcraig> Joseph: What's the status of ACTION-1219?
14:30:49 <jcraig> RS: Firefox was trimming out selection change events for performance reasons; needed you to coord with David Bolter and Alex Surkov
14:31:33 <jcraig> RS: If they decide to trim out some events for perf reasons, we decided that was okay
14:31:47 <jcraig> JC: Might that cause a problem with AT?
14:32:04 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection
14:32:04 <jcraig> RS: Possibly, but we haven't run into issues yet.
14:32:41 <jcraig> "EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN is all that is necessary. The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance."
14:33:33 <jcraig> Joseph: Don't need the additional events in this case, b/c a single event is enough in this case. The rest are redundant.
14:34:27 <jcraig> RS: Make sure Alex sees this edit.
14:34:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTION
14:35:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONADD
14:35:09 <jcraig> RS: Next question, if you see _this_, should we expect to not see _that_
14:35:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> never seen: EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN
14:35:24 <jcraig> s/_this_/EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTION/
14:35:38 <jcraig> s/_that_/EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONADD/
14:37:15 <jcraig> I think EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN was running in IE, but I never saw it in Firefox.
14:38:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+vie
14:38:29 <jcraig> TOPIC: Test Report
14:38:35 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1&filter_required=on&filter_cr_met=on&filter=Filter+vie
14:39:21 <jcraig> Joseph: Managed to get 895-899 passing
14:40:02 <jcraig> RS: Remaining 344, 345, 509, 734, 735
14:40:29 <jcraig> Cynthia may have a fix for _num_
14:40:46 <jcraig> s/Cynthia/Joseph: Cynthia/
14:40:55 <jcraig> q+
14:41:34 <jcraig> ack me
14:44:27 <jcraig> JC: Work was done in WebKit on these in the last week. I'll run 344, 345, 509, 734, and 735 again in bleeding edge version.
14:49:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> AXMenuItem
14:49:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> <nil>
14:49:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> 'menu item'
14:49:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> If aria-checked (state)="true": AXMenuItemMarkChar ✓
14:49:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> Otherwise: AXMenuItemMarkChar <nil>
14:49:32 <jcraig> Group: discussion of specific test case results
14:54:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> test cases: 344, 345, 509, 734, 735
14:56:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: please run test cases 895-899 on Win8/IE10
14:57:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2
14:59:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=3
15:00:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2
15:07:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Jon write some UAIG test cases and expected results starting with test case 102 and working backward
15:07:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1258 - Write some uaig test cases and expected results starting with test case 102 and working backward [on Jon Gunderson - due 2013-09-16].
15:09:00 <jcraig> ACTION: Cooper to file a bug against trackbot to post a link in the IRC to the trackbot-created ACTIONS. ;-)
15:09:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1259 - File a bug against trackbot to post a link in the irc to the trackbot-created actions. ;-) [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-09-16].
15:10:04 <janina> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aapi/
15:10:13 <jcraig> TOPIC: HTML AAPI
15:11:10 <jcraig> JS: Trying to publish a heartbeat draft
15:12:35 <jcraig> q+ to object that this should be an informative, updatable document, not a normative spec
15:12:35 <MichaelC> clown, expected results should be restored for the AT / SPI special statements (test suite 3) now
15:13:27 <jcraig> ack me
15:13:27 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to object that this should be an informative, updatable document, not a normative spec
15:13:46 <jcraig> JC: Otherwise, it will be immeditatly out of date
15:14:10 <jcraig> RS: No commitment to do a normative doc for HTML 5.0; just 5.1
15:17:15 <jcraig> MC: This doc has already been published to TR, so this is only a heartbeat draft.
15:18:23 <jcraig> MC: My understanding was that this was originally published with PF group approval
15:19:41 <jcraig> HTML/ARIA mapping http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics
15:26:20 <Zakim> -James_Craig
15:26:42 <janina> scribe: janina
15:27:04 <jongund> RS: Here is my problem the person is chairing it has moved off the project, I am not sure who is working on the document
15:27:11 <janina> rich: There's lack of continuity and consistency here, we're unclear on this in several respects.
15:27:13 <clown> http://rawgithub.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html
15:27:40 <janina> michael: Listed in our charter, but PF wasn't checked the first time around.
15:28:50 <janina> michael: Also a difference on whether we're OK on the content, or on whether it's normative or a note
15:30:07 <janina> michael: Believe this was first published before PF was integrated into the publication decisioning process for TF docs
15:30:14 <jongund> got to go
15:30:17 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
15:31:27 <janina> rich: Important this is a 5.1 doc, not 5.0; and if not 5.0, why publish now?
15:31:37 <janina> michael: To demonstrate work continues
15:32:09 <janina> janina: HTML has heartbeat concept we don't
15:32:14 <janina> michael: we're supposed to
15:32:24 <janina> michael: means every three months
15:32:44 <clown> "This is a draft document and may be updated, replaced or obsoleted by other documents at any time"
15:32:59 <janina> michael: are there diffs from before
15:33:02 <janina> janina: yes
15:33:41 <janina> michael: We have a doc without a leader, taken off rec track; we don't know the future of this doc
15:33:57 <janina> michael: If it hadn't had a fpwd, I'd feel stronger about an objection
15:37:31 <janina> rich: Important to recognize that 5.1 apis will change dramatically
15:37:44 <janina> clown: Maybe that's our objection, this needs to be clearly marked as 5.1
15:38:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
15:38:12 <janina> zakim, bye
15:38:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Jon_Gunderson, James_Craig, Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, janina
15:38:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pf
15:38:19 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/09-pf-minutes.html janina
17:17:41 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: PF Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 11 September at 16:00Z for 60 minutes
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