00:01:43 RRSAgent has joined #webapps 00:01:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-irc 00:01:51 zakim, this will be d3e 00:01:51 ok, Travis; I see RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM scheduled to start now 00:02:31 RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has now started 00:02:32 +[Microsoft] 00:02:41 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 00:02:42 +Travis; got it 00:02:52 Present+ Travis_Leithead 00:02:53 garykac has joined #webapps 00:02:54 marcosc_ has joined #webapps 00:03:07 Present+ Gary_Kac 00:03:23 + +1.425.893.aaaa 00:03:24 - +1.425.893.aaaa 00:03:24 + +1.425.893.aaaa 00:03:55 Zakim, 1.425.893.aaaa is garykac 00:03:56 sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '1.425.893.aaaa' 00:04:02 Kacmarcik 00:04:04 Zakim, +1.425.893.aaaa is garykac 00:04:04 +garykac; got it 00:04:19 rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight 00:06:46 Today we will be reviewing the issue noted in the latest editors draft: 00:06:47 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html 00:07:27 Going through the ED and looking for "issue ": https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html 00:07:45 ISSUE 2: normative order for events 00:08:05 How interoperable is the listed order? 00:08:12 garykac: Not sure. Need to verify 00:08:48 ... bug mentions that order is different from Opera/Chrome+Safari/IE are all different 00:10:36 We should re-evaluate the order in recent versions of IE/Chrome/Firefox. 00:12:21 Moving to the third issue: what else is needed for InputEvent type 00:13:26 ... I suspect that we could live with the current definition. We should propose this for D3E to the list and move on. 00:13:44 It depends on what's the purpose of beforeinput. 00:14:09 kochi_home has joined #webapps 00:14:26 Next Issue (4): Relation to editing spec. 00:14:49 me Masayuki are you on the call? 00:15:03 hello 00:15:08 No, I just on IRC. 00:15:28 We're going through the ED: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html 00:15:38 We're looking at Issue #4 00:15:46 garykac: thanks 00:16:01 We think that for issue4, we would leave this burden up to the editing spec itself. 00:16:08 sgtm 00:16:13 +[IPcaller] 00:16:52 zakim, +[IPcaller] is kochi_home 00:16:52 sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]' 00:17:00 zakim, IPcaller is kochi_home 00:17:00 +kochi_home; got it 00:17:07 Issue 5 00:20:05 beforeinput has a default action at least modifying the DOM. 00:20:24 The tables look OK (for what they are) 00:20:50 garykac: Good point. 00:21:00 Scribe: Travis 00:21:01 For issue 5, I don't think we need to add Document to the list 00:21:04 ScribeNick: Travis 00:21:13 masayuki: Yes, I'll add that. 00:21:15 ah, earthquake hits here... 00:21:26 !! 00:21:37 now on issue 6 00:21:59 DOM_LOCATION _MOBILE and _JOYSTICK 00:22:41 I agree with that they are not needed. 00:23:02 If the location is unknown, to use _STANDARD? 00:23:49 I don't think that '-1' as a value is useful. I think _STANDARD is a good enough default 00:24:00 masayuki: yes 00:24:13 OK, Issue 7 00:24:19 NumLock key location 00:24:29 Spec was ambiguous, but implementations now agree. 00:24:41 We will update the spec. 00:24:50 We're going to update the spec to match the implementations: 00:25:10 now issue 8- 00:25:14 locale 00:25:21 NumLock key may be placed on standard position like notebook PC. 00:25:46 IF we move the locale into UIEvents, then we'll still have some implementations out there (at least IE) 00:26:13 It would be nice to clarify what exactly should be in locale, and that's more than we probably want to do for DOM3 00:26:38 Needs to be more clearly specified--we agree to move to UI Events spec for additional clarification 00:26:40 I'll move locale into UIEVents 00:26:48 sounds good 00:27:02 now issue 9: when compositionupdate is fired 00:27:08 Sounds good. It's too complicated. 00:27:25 The spec now defines this, we should review it. 00:27:45 For issue #9, I updated the spec to specify when the event should fire. Please review the text and let me know if you have comments. 00:27:48 so do we agree compositionupdate should occur before DOM is updated? 00:29:02 marcosc has joined #webapps 00:31:15 (the earthquake was M6.9...) 00:31:59 garykac: will add more detail to the key events during composition (regarding synthetic key insertion) 00:33:17 masayuki: issue 12 00:33:33 masayuki: do you think the order of composition events look good to you? 00:33:45 Now on issue 11. 00:33:48 let me check... 00:34:17 For issue 11: Should compositionend still fire when compositionstart is canceled? 00:34:21 I don't have a preference 00:34:45 Is there a reason to fire it (or a reason to not fire it)? 00:35:19 IE should have an observable behavior (as it's cancellable) 00:35:39 Spec currently says to fire the compositionend event even after cancelling start. 00:35:51 I wrote the spec to always fire the compositionend. We can leave it that way unless there's a reason to change it. 00:36:23 kochi_home: preference to fire the composition end event as speced. 00:36:37 issue 12 00:36:54 now on issue12- DOM order of composition update 00:37:36 The draft is written to say: beforeinput + compositionevent + DOM-update + input 00:38:27 issue 12's text seems to match my expectations 00:39:04 on issue 13 00:39:10 For issue #13, I added an example. Are there any other examples that we should include in the spec? 00:39:13 (modifier key combos that we may have missed) 00:39:23 I like compositionupdate + beforeinput better. 00:40:43 Ctrl+Shift key is pressed, the key value becomes uppercase? 00:41:12 We have the uppercase example with 'Q' 00:41:14 masayuki: are you on the call? 00:41:27 kochi_home: no. 00:41:34 masayuki: On CU + BI better, is this because you never expect compositionupdate to be cancelled? 00:41:35 Ah You'd like a control + shift example added? 00:41:41 masayuki: ah, ok. 00:42:12 garykac: yes, for clearer spec. 00:42:29 masayuki: ok. I'll add it. 00:44:06 garykac: Thanks, then, I'll work on implementing .key value for printable keys on Gecko. 00:44:27 And I'll post some feedback. 00:47:02 masayuki: any rationale for your opinion earlier on compositionupdate before beforeinput? 00:48:34 Travis: compositionupdate is a notification of native IME change, and beforeinput is a notification of to change the DOM. So, I feel compositionupdate kicks beforeinput is natural order. 00:50:24 ok. I'll update the draft to be cu + bi + DOM + input 00:50:31 I agree with masayuki's preference. 00:51:40 On issue14 - maxlength requirement 00:52:22 Perhaps 30 (or 31) would be better. 00:52:24 A limit seems reasonable. 00:52:32 maxlength limitation is applied for untrusted events? 00:53:04 I wouldn't think so. 00:54:26 Then, browser should have non-fixed string buffer in KeyboardEvent? 00:56:12 Ok. Then we won't specify a limit. 00:56:16 I think it might be better without specifying a limit 00:56:34 (Especially one that is UA enforced) 00:56:42 For issue #15, I'll need to investigate and give more info before we can talk about that. 00:57:05 SGTM, but it should be allowed to cut keyname for security. 00:58:34 garykac: on Linux, Super and Hyper is usually mapped to Win-logo key. However, Meta key is mapped to another key (e.g., shift + alt) 00:59:07 Issue 16 - use of ' ' or 'Spacebar' 00:59:43 marcosc has joined #webapps 00:59:58 To test: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/key-event-test.html 01:00:17 (that last URL was for Travis) 01:00:45 Windows and Mac have space key's keycode. However, Linux doesn't have it. 01:01:22 So, Linux needs complicated code for setting "Spacebar". 01:01:38 I'm OK with making spacebar's key value ' ' (not special) 01:01:56 Travis: I agree with it. 01:02:01 IE will need to change our implementation to match, but we'll have to change other stuff too :-) 01:02:09 That would probably be the most consistent. 01:03:32 jeffh has joined #webapps 01:03:38 I'll update the draft with our comments and add any new issues. 01:04:00 We got through issues 1 - 16 today. 01:04:18 garykac: will make spec updates based on today's call. 01:04:22 Once we clear out all the issues, we'll be able to send the draft our more broadly. 01:05:16 garykac: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21118#c3 for issue 17 ;-) 01:08:02 lgombos has joined #webapps 01:08:07 Next teleconference? 01:08:16 Should we meet in two weeks? 01:08:16 2 weeks from now? 01:08:26 it's okay for me. 01:08:28 kochi: when is your next earthquake planned? 01:09:01 There's a button to file bugs for any issues that people find. 01:09:02 haha 01:09:11 OK. Next call is on Sept. 17 01:09:18 sounds good, 01:09:36 -Travis 01:09:37 -kochi_home 01:09:37 -garykac 01:09:39 RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended 01:09:39 Attendees were Travis, garykac, kochi_home 01:09:41 g'bye 01:09:51 see you. 01:09:57 rrsagent, make the minutes 01:09:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis 01:10:08 rrsagent, make the logs public 01:10:08 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the logs public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help 01:10:19 rrsagent, set the log public 01:10:19 I'm logging. I don't understand 'set the log public', Travis. Try /msg RRSAgent help 01:10:46 rrsagent, set logs public 01:11:38 rrsagent, please make the minutes 01:11:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis 01:12:21 rssagent, please publish the minutes 01:12:32 rrsagent, please publish the minutes 01:12:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-webapps-minutes.html Travis 01:13:49 lgombos has joined #webapps 01:14:13 lgombos_ has joined #webapps 01:22:57 marcosc has joined #webapps 01:49:55 marcosc has joined #webapps 02:20:04 marcosc has joined #webapps 02:28:33 lgombos_ has joined #webapps 02:49:29 skddc has joined #webapps 03:01:33 skddc has left #webapps 03:14:13 marcosc has joined #webapps 03:24:34 davidb has joined #webapps 03:30:33 lgombos has joined #webapps 03:36:48 marcosc has joined #webapps 04:03:05 marcosc has joined #webapps 04:33:45 marcosc has joined #webapps 05:05:49 marcosc has joined #webapps 05:34:12 marcosc has joined #webapps 06:03:03 marcosc 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joined #webapps 06:44:25 dom has joined #webapps 07:14:55 marcosc has joined #webapps 07:46:04 tobie has joined #webapps 08:08:36 darobin has joined #webapps 08:13:03 skddc has joined #webapps 08:42:59 jungkees has joined #webapps 09:06:16 smaug has joined #webapps 09:19:20 glenn has joined #webapps 10:04:20 karl has joined #webapps 10:04:44 karl has joined #webapps 10:14:37 smaug has joined #webapps 10:25:41 abarsto has joined #webapps 11:11:16 skddc has joined #webapps 12:11:43 dom, is the W&MIG using a W3C channel? 12:19:55 ArtB, #web-mobile 12:20:10 thanks dom 12:20:11 (but that's mostly the chairs there at this time) 12:20:58 dom, I forget … is the CoreMob CG now closed or is it closing? 12:21:11 see http://www.w3.org/community/coremob/2013/09/04/coremob-update-announcing-the-web-and-mobile-interest-group/ 12:21:16 "Finally, the question. Given little traffic on this list, the dormancy of the CG and the explicit intention of the W&M IG to pursue the work of Coremob I think it is time to archive Coremob. Objections?" 12:22:15 thanks, I missed the Call for the Objections part of that email 12:22:22 is there a deadline? 12:23:29 oh, the e-mail I got truncates Jo's message so I didn't get the part about the objection 12:23:57 perhaps you or Jo should fwd his blog to the list (in its entirety) 12:24:16 good idea 12:28:46 marcosc has joined #webapps 13:10:42 marcosc has joined #webapps 13:30:01 marcosc has joined #webapps 13:38:58 smaug has joined #webapps 13:40:48 davidb has joined #webapps 13:46:19 tobie has joined #webapps 14:05:14 glenn has joined #webapps 14:23:50 Lachy has joined #webapps 15:37:48 skddc has joined #webapps 15:51:29 jsbell has joined #webapps 15:56:23 divya has joined #webapps 16:02:46 divya has joined #webapps 16:07:58 lmclister has joined #webapps 16:13:57 Lachy has joined #webapps 16:32:43 divya has joined #webapps 16:37:24 divya has joined #webapps 17:17:49 glenn has joined #webapps 17:30:16 smaug has joined #webapps 17:52:47