IRC log of forms on 2013-08-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:02 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-forms-irc
14:59:04 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:04 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
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ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
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Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:59:07 [trackbot]
Date: 21 August 2013
14:59:15 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
14:59:46 [Steven]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0011
14:59:55 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0011
15:00:06 [Steven]
Regrets: Philip
15:00:29 [Zakim]
IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
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+??P3
15:00:37 [Steven]
zakim, I am ?
15:00:38 [Zakim]
+Steven; got it
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+[IPcaller]
15:02:40 [alain]
Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:02:40 [Zakim]
ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:03:42 [ebruchez]
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+ebruchez
15:05:14 [Steven]
"Nick: I will be away the first three weeks of September"
15:10:18 [nvdbleek]
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15:10:54 [nvdbleek]
zaki, code?
15:11:00 [nvdbleek]
zakim, code?
15:11:00 [Zakim]
the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:11:43 [Zakim]
+nvdbleek
15:12:12 [Steven]
Topic: Formulas for summing values, done right
15:12:12 [Steven]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0005.html
15:12:48 [Steven]
Erik: People have trouble working out how to do this. It is hard in many languages.
15:13:18 [Steven]
... hadnling currencies for instance should be in decimal
15:13:24 [Steven]
s/dn/nd/
15:14:19 [Steven]
Topic: Orbeon Forms 4.3
15:14:19 [Steven]
http://blog.orbeon.com/2013/08/orbeon-forms-43.html
15:14:41 [Steven]
Steven: Anything particular worth mentioning?
15:14:58 [Steven]
Erik: Extensions that might be worth bringing to XForms sometime
15:15:10 [Steven]
... dealing with multiple constraints
15:15:21 [Steven]
... different alert messages for different constraints
15:15:49 [Steven]
... and BetterForms have something similar
15:15:55 [Steven]
... we went a little further
15:16:17 [Steven]
... and have warnings as well as errors
15:17:31 [Steven]
Topic: XForms in 2013
15:17:31 [Steven]
http://dubinko.info/blog/2013/08/10/xforms-in-2013/
15:17:35 [Steven]
Steven: For the record
15:17:54 [Steven]
Topic: XSLTForms Gets AVTs!!!!!
15:17:54 [Steven]
http://kurtcagle.tumblr.com/post/18517790086/xsltforms-gets-avts
15:18:15 [Steven]
Steven: Advertising the benefits of AVTs in XForms
15:18:23 [Steven]
Topic: FYI: Average Income per Programming Language
15:18:23 [Steven]
http://bpodgursky.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/average-income-per-programming-language/
15:18:58 [Steven]
Steven: An interesting analysis, not sure how true.
15:19:17 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-1954 - Add the bind() function
15:19:17 [Steven]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0009.html
15:19:27 [Steven]
Steven: Looked fine to me
15:19:40 [Steven]
... everyone else OK?
15:19:47 [Steven]
Erik: We had discussed earlier
15:20:20 [Steven]
... John Boyer had said "it would be nice if..." with some extra features, but they aren't in there.
15:20:43 [Steven]
... issues with the dependency graph.
15:21:04 [Steven]
... Would need more work to deal with that.
15:21:57 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-1896 - Send a e-mail to Michael Kay about providing type
15:21:57 [Steven]
information to the nodes in instances
15:21:57 [Steven]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0007.html
15:22:35 [Steven]
Nick: We never came to a conclusion with this. It sort of fizzled out.
15:23:29 [Steven]
Erik: I had it on my list, I realised recently looking at the expressions (see above), that it needed to be done.
15:23:59 [Steven]
... the problem is that any expression that deals with data in the model, involves types.
15:24:10 [Steven]
... numbers and dates particularly
15:25:28 [Steven]
... it makes perfect sense that expressions use information about the types without using csts
15:25:33 [Steven]
s/csts/casts/
15:26:06 [Steven]
Steven: So you derive types from the model and pass them on?
15:26:30 [Steven]
Erik: XPath engines can support this.
15:27:15 [Steven]
... Xpath 2 supports using type information (e.g. in a+b) if available.
15:27:45 [Steven]
Steven: Is it as if you are supplying invisible casts?
15:27:48 [Steven]
Erik: Yes.
15:28:19 [Steven]
... Xpath 2 supports it in the API
15:28:36 [Steven]
... I had an action item to ask Mike Kay
15:29:37 [Steven]
... XForms can't guarantee that at runtime the value has the right type.
15:30:47 [Steven]
... Mike Kay was a bit puzzled, and was surprised about what I told him, probably because he is not at home with XForms
15:31:16 [Steven]
... but he said he would expect an implementation would provide types
15:32:11 [Steven]
Steven: So you proposed writing some text.
15:32:22 [Steven]
Erik: Yes. I don't think it is too hard to specify.
15:34:17 [Steven]
... Kay suggested that the results of the calculations should be used for coercions.
15:34:30 [Steven]
... I haven't considered that yet.
15:34:40 [Zakim]
-ebruchez
15:35:00 [Zakim]
+ebruchez
15:36:26 [Steven]
Nick: If you have a bind to a schema type, some Xpath engines don't necessarily support it.
15:36:32 [Steven]
... so it can't be required.
15:36:46 [Steven]
Erik: Right.
15:37:16 [Steven]
... but having support for the simple types is already useful.
15:37:20 [Steven]
Nick: I agree.
15:38:00 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to write text for type information for XPath expressions
15:38:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1955 - Write text for type information for xpath expressions [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-08-28].
15:38:23 [Steven]
Topic: Progress to LC
15:39:04 [Steven]
Steven: Nick is about to go away. I shall be unavailable for two calls.
15:40:20 [Steven]
Steven: So let's try for a call for the 18th September, but up to then we are on hold.
15:40:45 [Steven]
Nick: I won't be able to do preparatory work for that call.
15:40:59 [Steven]
Steven: No problem, we can use the call to schedule the progress.
15:41:15 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
15:41:20 [Steven]
Steven: ?
15:41:25 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
15:41:30 [Zakim]
-Steven
15:41:31 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
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-nvdbleek
15:41:34 [Zakim]
IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Steven, [IPcaller], ebruchez, nvdbleek
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Present+Alain
15:42:02 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-forms-minutes.html Steven
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