15:16:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:16:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-irc
15:17:34 <chrislowis> Zakim, what conferences?
15:17:34 <Zakim> I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM, Team_(audio-chairs)15:10Z, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM active
15:17:36 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are SW_HCLS()11:00AM, XML_XSLWG()11:30AM, SW_HCLS(TMO)11:00AM, XML_QueryWG(XSLT)11:00AM, Team_Comm()10:00AM, SW_(PROV)11:00AM, T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM,
15:17:36 <Zakim> ... VB_VBWG(CCXML)11:00AM, Styl_XSL-FO-()11:00AM
15:30:30 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
15:49:42 <chrislowis> Zakim, what conferences?
15:49:42 <Zakim> I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM active
15:49:44 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are SW_HCLS()11:00AM, Team_(audio-chairs)15:10Z, RWC_Audio()12:00PM, XML_XSLWG()11:30AM, SW_HCLS(TMO)11:00AM, XML_QueryWG(XSLT)11:00AM,
15:49:44 <Zakim> ... SW_(PROV)11:00AM, VB_VBWG(CCXML)11:00AM, Styl_XSL-FO-()11:00AM, HTML_WG()12:00PM
15:49:52 <chrislowis> Zakim, this will be RWC_Audio
15:49:52 <Zakim> ok, chrislowis; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:53:10 <aut0mata> aut0mata has joined #audio
15:54:22 <chrislowis> Meeting: W3C Audio WG Teleconference
15:54:32 <chrislowis> Chair: Olivier
15:54:41 <chrislowis> Scribe: Chris L
15:54:50 <chrislowis> ScribeNick: chrislowis
15:55:55 <olivier> Agenda+ Review of Action Items - http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/
15:56:11 <olivier> Agenda+ Web Audio API spec roles
15:56:22 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
15:59:46 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
15:59:52 <Zakim> +jernoble
16:00:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:08 <chrislowis> Zakim, olivier has me
16:00:08 <Zakim> sorry, chrislowis, I do not recognize a party named 'olivier'
16:00:10 <Zakim> -jernoble
16:00:11 <Zakim> +jernoble
16:00:16 <olivier> zakim, IPCaller is me
16:00:16 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
16:00:24 <olivier> zakim, olivier also has chrislowis
16:00:24 <Zakim> +chrislowis; got it
16:00:33 <joe> joe has joined #audio
16:01:19 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
16:01:19 <joe> I'm getting "this passcode is not valid"
16:01:21 <ehsan> ehsan has joined #audio
16:01:28 <chrislowis> Zakim, what is the code?
16:01:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chrislowis
16:01:44 <Zakim> +cwilso
16:02:03 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #audio
16:02:12 <ehsan> oops, I disconnected instead of muting!
16:02:15 <joe> Is anyone else able to connect with 28346?
16:02:19 <Zakim> +[Mozilla.a]
16:02:32 <olivier> joe, yes
16:03:27 <gmandyam> Also having trouble dialing in
16:03:40 <olivier> sorry to hear that gmandyam
16:03:46 <olivier> will ping w3c sysreq
16:04:01 <Zakim> +gmandyam\
16:04:23 <joe> I'm not able to connect from either of my phones
16:04:51 <Zakim> + +1.978.314.aaaa
16:05:32 <chrislowis> olivier: we have two things on the agenda
16:05:39 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:05:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review of Action Items - http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/" taken up [from olivier]
16:05:40 <chrislowis> olivier: starting with a review of the action items
16:05:47 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/pendingreview
16:05:51 <cwilso> zakim, who is here?
16:05:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see jernoble, olivier, [Mozilla], cwilso, [Mozilla.a], gmandyam, +1.978.314.aaaa
16:05:53 <chrislowis> olivier: we have 3 actions pending review.
16:05:54 <Zakim> olivier has olivier, chrislowis
16:05:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, ehsan, joe, aut0mata, jernoble, RRSAgent, Zakim, eXhumed, colinbdclark, Guest, cwilso, rtoyg, olivier, trackbot, mdjp_, shepazu, padenot, chrislowis,
16:05:54 <Zakim> ... paul_irish, toyoshiAw, heath
16:06:14 <chrislowis> olivier: starting with http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/57
16:06:28 <cwilso> q+ to agree that this is a better avenue for feedback.
16:06:37 <olivier> ack c
16:06:37 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to agree that this is a better avenue for feedback.
16:06:54 <chrislowis> olivier: I had a look and I'd like to cancel it. It's fine for it to say to contact the mailing list, and we can decide there whether it's an issue or not.
16:06:57 <chrislowis> cwilso: I agree.
16:07:04 <chrislowis> olivier: we'll close that one then.
16:07:52 <chrislowis> olivier: http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/60 looks to be a non-issue.
16:08:05 <chrislowis> olivier: so will close.
16:08:09 <chrislowis> olivier: And finally, http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/65
16:08:14 <olivier> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22969
16:08:45 <chrislowis> olivier: I've created the issue mentioned (to look into how much the Web Audio API is "inspired" by OpenAL)
16:09:23 <gmandyam> +q
16:09:31 <chrislowis> olivier: we discussed that the OpenAL was licenced under something fairly liberal, but we may not need to worry about this. At some point we should go through this and satisfy ourselves.
16:09:34 <olivier> ack g
16:10:47 <chrislowis> gmandyam: is it our concern, the IPR issues around this?
16:11:09 <chrislowis> olivier: Perhaps not, but I should talk to PSIG to make sure.
16:11:13 <gmandyam> My question is whether it is really the responsibility of this WG to determine whether OpenAL is compatible with W3C RF policy?  Could the PSIG handle this?
16:11:24 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to contact PSIG to ask for the best course of action re bug 22969
16:11:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Contact psig to ask for the best course of action re bug 22969 [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-08-22].
16:11:30 <chrislowis> gmandyam: thank you for the clarification.
16:11:37 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:12:18 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 1
16:12:18 <Zakim> agendum 1, Review of Action Items - http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/, closed
16:12:19 <chrislowis> olivier: Action 66 is still pending on chrislowis, and is ongoing.
16:12:21 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:12:21 <Zakim> 2. Web Audio API spec roles [from olivier]
16:12:22 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:12:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Web Audio API spec roles" taken up [from olivier]
16:12:45 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm apologising for the mystery surrounding this agendum.
16:13:20 <chrislowis> olivier: the news that I need to announce is that our spec editor Chris Rogers has stepped down from his role at Google and won't be able to participate in the group in the foreseeable future.
16:14:28 <chrislowis> olivier: we received a message from Chris saying how proud he was for working with the group and mentioned people on this call by name and wished us all the best.
16:15:19 <chrislowis> olivier: needless to say, we must now realise that in W3C parlance, Chris R was the editor of the API, but as we know he was also the 'author' of the spec, not just the editor.
16:16:01 <chrislowis> olivier: usually at the W3C the 'author' of the spec is the group itself, and one or a number of editors edit the spec.
16:16:35 <chrislowis> olivier: so I think we will need to move in the future to a different model of working, which is more in keeping with other working groups.
16:16:58 <chrislowis> olivier: cwilso, could you explain a little about what this means in terms of Google's involvement with the WG.
16:17:28 <chrislowis> cwilso: Yes, we've been working hard internally to make sure that this isn't an issue in terms of our involvement with the WG.
16:18:06 <chrislowis> cwilso: I'll be stepping up my involvement with the WG in the future (but not in the immediate month).
16:18:18 <shepazu> q+
16:18:24 <chrislowis> joe: Chris R has played a huge role in this week, and he'll be missed.
16:18:45 <joe> s/week/group/
16:19:05 <chrislowis> olivier: From speaking to him, he may be involved in the future but that is not certain.
16:19:12 <olivier> ack s
16:19:22 <chrislowis> olivier: however we have a spec that is in good shape for working on.
16:20:07 <chrislowis> shepazu: I'd like to acknowledge the work Chris has done, we'd not be in the position we're in with audio on the web without him, and the community is very happy with what is now available.
16:21:20 <chrislowis> shepazu: we have some people in this group who are audio experts, some who are browser experts, and some implementors who do not have as much audio experience. We need to find a new editor who can fill both roles, and that may mean looking for more than one editor.
16:21:38 <chrislowis> shepazu: that person could be from inside or outside of the current group
16:21:50 <cwilso> q+
16:21:55 <olivier> ack c
16:22:02 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm aware we don't have everyone on the call, so some of this may surface on the list in the next few days.
16:22:27 <chrislowis> cwilso: I did want to say, that I have been talking to my management - I have the permission to offer myself as editor.
16:22:59 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think that would look different to Chris R's involvment.
16:23:38 <chrislowis> cwilso: I'd need to be more of an editor, with input from people on the digital audio aspects.
16:24:38 <cwilso> I'd note that Apple has actually stepped up a bit in the last 6 months or so.
16:25:08 <chrislowis> shepazu: Chris R has spoken in the past about working with people at Apple
16:26:11 <chrislowis> jernoble: Eric Carlson and I worked with Chris R on the early versions of the spec, I don't know if we'll have the time to contribute to the spec as an editor, but I'll need to talk to people in my company.
16:27:19 <chrislowis> olivier: one thing that we haven't put in place so far is an effective "patch" process.
16:27:48 <chrislowis> olivier: we tended to raise issues, and Chris would propose a solution based on his expertise, and we'd agree on it.
16:28:36 <joe> q+
16:28:43 <cwilso> q+ to mention that I think moving Web MIDI to github was a positive move in collaboration
16:28:51 <ehsan> q+
16:28:53 <olivier> ack joe
16:29:04 <chrislowis> olivier: perhaps a possibility is to have the whole group taking ownership of the spec, rather than sources of input - if we could get more patches and suggestions of prose that would help any future editor.
16:29:55 <chrislowis> joe: some way of using bugzilla/a bug-tracking system to review and then close issues in a clear manner would help.
16:30:20 <chrislowis> olivier: you're right, we have status codes already, but we haven't really enforced these.
16:30:33 <olivier> ack c
16:30:33 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to mention that I think moving Web MIDI to github was a positive move in collaboration
16:31:20 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think a patch-based system, specifically on github, would help. It certainly did with Web MIDI.
16:31:23 <olivier> ack e
16:32:24 <chrislowis> ehsan: I used to edit the spec directly and push my changes to the document, with Chris's go-ahead.
16:32:25 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
16:33:11 <chrislowis> ehsan: we shouldn't put too much effort into reviewing changes, as they can be edited after the fact (as the spec is a working document).
16:33:30 <chrislowis> (based on what I could hear on the call)
16:34:26 <cwilso> +1 that we do need to get github patches/issues to send emails to the group.
16:34:53 <chrislowis> olivier: My concern is that the integration with github and the mailing list isn't great.
16:35:08 <chrislowis> olivier: I think it's possible, but I haven't been able to get it to work.
16:35:34 <chrislowis> cwilso: we do need to make sure that patches, changes, issues send emails to the group - that's important.
16:35:57 <olivier> q?
16:36:00 <chrislowis> cwilso: what I tried to do with WebMIDI is to gather up a larger set of changes, and send to the group.
16:36:21 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
16:36:41 <chrislowis> olivier: I realise this is a big change to how we work.
16:37:20 <chrislowis> olivier: think about if and how, with the support of your organisation, you can volunteer to edit or contribute to the spec.
16:37:30 <ehsan> q+
16:37:36 <olivier> ack e
16:37:50 <chrislowis> olivier: I'll send a summary to the list of this meeting noting that cwilso has volunteered his time.
16:38:05 <chrislowis> ehsan: How will this affect the vote on the data-race issue?
16:38:53 <joe> q+
16:39:00 <chrislowis> olivier: we have two good proposals to address that issue. What I'd like to happen in the next 2 weeks is for the third proposal to be documented, so that we can create a calendar for what we'd like to happen.
16:39:28 <chrislowis> ehsan: it's important to us with regards to FF25, but that's clear.
16:40:43 <olivier> ack joe
16:40:48 <chrislowis> cwilso: it would be reasonable to have your current implementation to follow your proposal, as it won't have a big impact on currently available applications.
16:41:02 <chrislowis> ehsan: -- noisy --
16:41:43 <chrislowis> joe: I'm also interested in not holding up the implementations, and if we can use something like roc's proposal in the interim then that seems like a good idea.
16:41:44 <shepazu> q+
16:42:30 <chrislowis> joe: I think we should push forward with a vote. If a third proposal can't be specified then we should at least consider it in its current state.
16:42:32 <olivier> ack s
16:43:46 <chrislowis> shepazu: just to make it clear, we (the W3C) doesn't vote, it reaches consensus. But the group can decide how to go forward.
16:44:28 <chrislowis> olivier: yes, and if we reach a consensus, we don't *have* to vote, but we can use voting to break a dead-lock.
16:45:02 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to send calendar of how/when we want to go forward on the audiobuffer data races issue
16:45:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Send calendar of how/when we want to go forward on the audiobuffer data races issue [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-08-22].
16:45:03 <chrislowis> *olivier acknowledges suggestion to take discussion to the list.
16:45:09 <olivier> q?
16:45:26 <chrislowis> olivier: if there is no other comment, suggest we adjurn.
16:45:36 <chrislowis> olivier: hearing no objection, the call is adjorned.
16:45:48 <ehsan> ehsan has joined #audio
16:45:55 <Zakim> -[Mozilla.a]
16:45:56 <Zakim> -gmandyam
16:45:56 <Zakim> -jernoble
16:45:57 <Zakim> - +1.978.314.aaaa
16:45:58 <Zakim> -olivier
16:45:59 <chrislowis> olivier: I'll coordinate about whether we have a call in one week or two depending on how things progress.
16:46:00 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
16:46:06 <Zakim> -cwilso
16:46:07 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
16:46:07 <Zakim> Attendees were jernoble, olivier, chrislowis, [Mozilla], cwilso, gmandyam\, +1.978.314.aaaa, Doug_Schepers
17:14:26 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:14:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:14:50 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
17:14:52 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:16:28 <olivier> Regrets: Jussi
17:16:30 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:16:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:16:49 <olivier> zakim, aaaa is joe
17:16:49 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:17:01 <olivier> s/+1.978.314.aaaa/joe/
17:17:03 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:17:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:17:48 <olivier> Regrets: Marcus
17:17:50 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:17:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:18:07 <olivier> Regrets: Marcus, Jussi
17:18:11 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:18:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:44:07 <aut0mata> aut0mata has joined #audio
17:47:52 <olivier> zakim, bye
17:47:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
17:47:56 <olivier> rrsagent, bye
17:47:56 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-actions.rdf :
17:47:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to contact PSIG to ask for the best course of action re bug 22969 [1]
17:47:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-irc#T16-11-24
17:47:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to send calendar of how/when we want to go forward on the audiobuffer data races issue [2]
17:47:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-audio-irc#T16-45-02