IRC log of dap on 2013-08-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:07:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:07:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-dap-irc
13:07:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:07:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:08:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:08:00 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 52 minutes
13:08:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:08:01 [trackbot]
Date: 14 August 2013
13:09:03 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0021.html
13:09:15 [fjh]
fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0021.html
13:59:38 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
13:59:38 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has not yet started, fjh
13:59:39 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, fjh, tobie, dom, trackbot, jeffh, Josh_Soref, mounir, richt, slightlyoff
14:00:05 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:00:11 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:00:14 [fjh]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:00:14 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
14:00:21 [fjh]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
14:01:29 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
14:02:35 [Zakim]
+Cathy
14:03:07 [dom]
Zakim, code?
14:03:07 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
14:03:10 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:03:19 [Zakim]
-Cathy
14:03:22 [Zakim]
+??P12
14:03:23 [dom]
Zakim, ??P12 is me
14:03:23 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:04:12 [Zakim]
+Cathy
14:04:48 [Zakim]
+??P14
14:05:20 [Zakim]
+gmandyam\
14:06:02 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:06:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, Josh_Soref, dom, Cathy, ??P14, gmandyam
14:06:03 [anssik]
anssik has joined #dap
14:06:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Cathy, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tobie, dom, trackbot, jeffh, Josh_Soref, mounir, richt, slightlyoff
14:06:13 [dom]
Zakim, ??P14 is anssik
14:06:15 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
14:07:09 [fjh]
scribenick: fjh
14:07:45 [fjh]
Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements
14:07:53 [fjh]
welcome Jianliang, Wenmei Huawei ; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0001.html
14:08:22 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #dap
14:08:41 [fjh]
No F2F at TPAC - meeting canceled
14:11:09 [fjh]
Publishing moratoria (26 Aug, 11 Nov, 18 Dec) https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2013JulSep/0029
14:11:45 [fjh]
Topic: Minutes approval
14:11:55 [fjh]
Approve minutes from 24 July 2013
14:11:56 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/att-0002/minutes-2013-07-24.html
14:12:06 [fjh]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 24 July 2013 are approved
14:12:22 [fjh]
Topic: Network Service Discovery
14:13:08 [fjh]
fjh: rich made an update to address issues raised by Adam Barth, need to review changes
14:13:22 [fjh]
ISSUE-135?
14:13:22 [trackbot]
ISSUE-135 -- Add security and privacy considerations section -- open
14:13:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/135
14:13:28 [fjh]
ISSUE=136?
14:13:37 [fjh]
ISSUE-136?
14:13:37 [trackbot]
ISSUE-136 -- Issues related to garbage collection -- open
14:13:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/136
14:14:15 [fjh]
fjh: I was looking at implementation for our specs, added these issues related to network service discovery
14:14:48 [fjh]
fjh: looks like chromium implementation is on 'wait and see' versus other browsers and raised issues
14:14:59 [fjh]
fjh: do not believe Mozilla has any plans to implement
14:16:00 [gmandyam]
+q
14:16:19 [fjh]
fjh: we need a second implementation
14:17:55 [fjh]
fjh: think we need to publish new WD, given promises and others changes
14:18:02 [fjh]
fjh: need to close issues before LC
14:18:14 [Cathy]
+1 on publishing updated WD
14:18:19 [fjh]
dom: agree, would be good to publish LC draft, blog on it and draw attention to it
14:18:33 [fjh]
fjh: do not need to address all issues to publish another WD
14:18:39 [fjh]
ack gmandyam
14:18:47 [dom]
s/publish LC/publish a/
14:19:07 [fjh]
gmandyman: web and TV interest group - suggest we look at implementations other than browser vendor implementations
14:19:52 [fjh]
fjh: need to see who we might specifically include
14:20:11 [fjh]
gmandyam: need to have joint meeting with web and TV interest group to get them involved
14:20:15 [dom]
+1 on a joint teleconf with Web & TV IG to draw attention to this; again, a new WD would be a good trigger for that
14:20:47 [fjh]
dom: also need rich on the call for that
14:22:27 [fjh]
action: fjh to organize joint call with web and TV group re network service discovery
14:22:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-646 - Organize joint call with web and tv group re network service discovery [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-08-21].
14:23:04 [dom]
(would work for me)
14:25:20 [dom]
+1 on publishing (and not needing a CfC)
14:25:36 [fjh]
RESOLUTION: Publish updated WD of Network Service Discovery
14:25:51 [fjh]
josh_soref: +1 to publishing updated WD of network service disocver
14:26:19 [dom]
[can't you share the editors draft in that case?]
14:26:22 [fjh]
fjh: also can use update WD to share with Ping, but might wait until more issues are resolved
14:26:40 [fjh]
Topic: Vibration
14:26:48 [fjh]
Question/Comment on CR draft: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0050.html
14:26:57 [fjh]
Question Vibration and iframes, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0055.html
14:28:37 [dom]
-> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/hH9bJGWKAbk Intent to implement Vibration API in Chromium
14:28:52 [dom]
[Thursday not ideal but workable]
14:30:57 [fjh]
fjh: anssik are you able to answer these questions on the list
14:31:10 [fjh]
anssik: yes, will answer
14:32:11 [fjh]
Topic: Light
14:32:18 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
14:32:30 [fjh]
we've addressed LC comments, not response from Anne, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0015.html
14:32:58 [fjh]
fjh: is there a reason this should not go to CR?
14:33:36 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:34:23 [fjh]
josh_soref: wrote test for page visibility for vibration
14:34:30 [fjh]
fjh: can you please send message on this to the list?
14:34:41 [fjh]
josh_soref: yes, will send today
14:34:48 [fjh]
dom: you will send your test cases as well?
14:34:52 [fjh]
josh_soref: yes
14:35:46 [dom]
+1 on sending CfC
14:37:02 [fjh]
action: fjh to send CfC to progress Light to CR, two week CfC
14:37:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-647 - Send cfc to progress light to cr, two week cfc [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-08-21].
14:37:15 [fjh]
Topic: Proximity
14:37:29 [fjh]
fjh: same situation with proximity, LC comments addressed but not closed due to no response
14:37:45 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0015.html
14:37:55 [fjh]
action: fjh to send CfC to progress Proxmity to CR, two week CfC
14:37:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-648 - Send cfc to progress proxmity to cr, two week cfc [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-08-21].
14:38:05 [fjh]
Topic: HTML Media Capture
14:38:52 [dom]
ACTION-523?
14:38:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN
14:38:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523
14:39:33 [fjh]
Topic: Test cases and implementation
14:39:55 [fjh]
fjh: thanks Dom for git review and pull for battery and vibration
14:40:18 [fjh]
fjh: both seem to need a bit more work to complete
14:41:12 [fjh]
dom: I marked these as approved because one person produced the test cases, and another reviewed, hope that is ok with group
14:41:16 [fjh]
fjh: I think so
14:41:26 [fjh]
dom: some additional work needed on vibration test case
14:41:50 [fjh]
fjh: todo.txt for battery says: proper {level | chargingtime | dischargingtime}change tests
14:41:53 [fjh]
not sure what that means
14:41:58 [fjh]
https://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/battery-status/TODO.txt
14:42:44 [fjh]
anssik: need to review whether these todo have been already addressed
14:43:13 [fjh]
action: anssik to review todo items associated with battery test cases
14:43:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-649 - Review todo items associated with battery test cases [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-08-21].
14:43:38 [fjh]
anssik: tests were originally done with desktop firefox, need to run test on mobile device
14:43:50 [fjh]
dom: which implementations do we know of
14:44:02 [fjh]
… firefox, is blackberry implementing?
14:44:10 [fjh]
josh_soref: I think so but need to check
14:44:20 [gmandyam]
+q
14:44:28 [fjh]
anssik: ran on very early firefox device, back then, passed
14:45:06 [fjh]
anssik: first bullet indicates user interaction is required, so about making it easier for human to perform tests
14:45:14 [fjh]
… current test should work, not optimal for tester
14:45:38 [fjh]
fjh: anssik, can you update todo.txt
14:46:01 [dom]
(rather than todo.txt, they should be filed as issues in github I think)
14:46:02 [fjh]
ack gmandyam
14:46:23 [fjh]
fjh: agree with dom, issues should be tracked separately, not in a file
14:47:00 [fjh]
gmandyam: do we have any strategy for comparing actual levels for mobile device for battery api and native api
14:47:07 [fjh]
… or just not worry about tit?
14:47:10 [fjh]
s/tit/it/
14:47:45 [fjh]
dom: we concludeer in TPAC, API did not need to provide an exact match
14:47:45 [fjh]
s/concludeer/concluded/
14:48:05 [fjh]
gmandyam: I raised the issue, not sure we agreed, such an issue could cause developers to avoid issue
14:48:17 [fjh]
dom: we are not equipped to do such detailed testing
14:48:44 [fjh]
… in W3C we test at a higher level, could be good to test, but not necessary to test that for interoperability
14:49:27 [fjh]
anssik: conforming implementations can have different quality of implementations, some might match closer, so implementation dependent
14:49:52 [fjh]
josh_soref: privacy consideration, might not want to indicate that other apps are using the battery, so advantage to not having a close match
14:50:01 [fjh]
… not a conformance issue or not a close match
14:50:25 [fjh]
… some might decide this api not needed, since all you can do is make a battery meter, my opinion but we will see
14:50:31 [fjh]
gmandyam: could do it
14:50:41 [fjh]
josh_soref: not point in doing it
14:50:47 [fjh]
s/not/no/
14:51:38 [fjh]
gmandyam: not saying we need to do this to exit CR
14:51:53 [fjh]
dom: can continue to submit test cases, suite is not frozen
14:52:07 [fjh]
… please provide test cases if you are able
14:52:18 [fjh]
gmandyam: I will share again on mail list, already did
14:52:41 [fjh]
dom: did you post a test case
14:53:21 [fjh]
gmandyam: showed how I did comparison with native battery readings on windows, requires lots of human
14:53:43 [fjh]
fjh: how do you decide what margin of error is acceptable?
14:54:14 [fjh]
anssik: believe this is quality of implementation issue
14:54:18 [fjh]
josh_soref: +1
14:55:09 [fjh]
fjh: if anyone has any additional test cases please share on list
14:55:28 [fjh]
… we should remove the todo.txt file and raise the issues in git, clarifying that they are enhancements
14:55:42 [fjh]
Topic: Action review
14:55:46 [fjh]
ACTION-523?
14:55:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN
14:55:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523
14:55:52 [fjh]
ACTIOBN-621?
14:55:58 [fjh]
ACTION-621?
14:55:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Create test cases for HTML Media Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN
14:55:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621
14:56:06 [fjh]
ACTION-641?
14:56:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-641 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Do a last check on battery and vibration test cases before merging in github master -- due 2013-08-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:56:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/641
14:56:13 [fjh]
close ACTION-641
14:56:13 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-641.
14:56:22 [fjh]
ACTION-642?
14:56:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-642 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Review proximity and ambient light test cases -- due 2013-09-18 -- OPEN
14:56:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/642
14:56:30 [fjh]
ACTION-643?
14:56:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-643 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases by Sept -- due 2013-07-10 -- OPEN
14:56:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/643
14:56:42 [fjh]
ACTION-644?
14:56:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-644 -- Frederick Hirsch to Ask TAG for feedback on promises with Network Discovery -- due 2013-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:56:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/644
14:56:48 [fjh]
waiting for spec to stabilize a bit more
14:57:12 [dom]
[regrets from me]
14:57:22 [fjh]
Topic: Meeting time
14:58:09 [fjh]
Discussion regarding moving regular time for this call, participants on the call are ok with Thur 10 am ET
14:58:33 [Zakim]
-dom
14:58:34 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
14:58:34 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
14:58:36 [Zakim]
-anssik
14:58:48 [fjh]
action: fjh to propose changing meeting time to Thur at 10 am ET slot
14:58:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-650 - Propose changing meeting time to thur at 10 am et slot [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-08-21].
14:58:48 [Zakim]
-Cathy
14:59:02 [fjh]
josh_soref: 5 Sept might be a problem
14:59:07 [fjh]
Topic: Other business
14:59:08 [fjh]
None
14:59:12 [fjh]
Topic: Adjourn
15:00:03 [fjh]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Anssi_Kostiainen, Girl_Mandyam, Cathy_Chan, Josh_Soref
15:00:09 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:00:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:00:31 [fjh]
Chair: Frederick_Hirssch
15:00:36 [fjh]
Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
15:01:13 [fjh]
s/ISSUE=136?//
15:01:23 [fjh]
s/+q//
15:01:47 [fjh]
s/+q//g
15:02:03 [fjh]
s/ACTIOBN-621?//
15:02:13 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:02:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:07:05 [Zakim]
-fjh
15:07:06 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:07:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were fjh, Cathy, Josh_Soref, dom, gmandyam\, anssik
16:50:12 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dap