IRC log of html-media on 2013-08-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:41 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:41 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-irc
14:57:43 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:43 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:45 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:45 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:46 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:46 [trackbot]: Date: 06 August 2013
14:59:16 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:24 [Zakim]: +pladd
14:59:26 [Zakim]: +??P6
14:59:36 [glenn]: zakim, ??p6 is me
14:59:36 [Zakim]: +glenn; got it
14:59:55 [pal]: pal has joined #html-media
15:00:03 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:00:12 [pladd]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:12 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft]
15:00:15 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
15:00:38 [davide]: davide has joined #html-media
15:00:49 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:00:55 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:01:02 [pal]: zakim, I am IPcaller
15:01:02 [Zakim]: ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:01:16 [Zakim]: + +1.303.661.aaaa
15:01:26 [Zakim]: +davide
15:02:57 [adrianba]: adrianba has joined #html-media
15:03:08 [ddorwin]: ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:16 [Zakim]: + +1.858.357.aabb
15:03:43 [Zakim]: +ddorwin
15:05:10 [ddorwin]: I can't talk much today.
15:05:58 [glenn]: adrian, are you on the call?
15:06:19 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft.a]
15:06:26 [adrianba]: zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:06:27 [Zakim]: +adrianba; got it
15:06:46 [johnsim]: zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:46 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba
15:06:54 [johnsim]: zakim, [microsoft] is me
15:06:54 [Zakim]: +johnsim; got it
15:06:55 [adrianba]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html
15:06:58 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:06:58 [jdsmith]: jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:07:03 [glenn]: chair: glenn
15:07:11 [glenn]: scribenick: adrianba
15:07:21 [glenn]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html
15:07:27 [adrianba]: Chair: Glenn Adams
15:07:32 [adrianba]: Scribe: Adrian Bateman
15:08:20 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:08:28 [glenn]: zakim, who's on the call?
15:08:28 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:08:51 [glenn]: zakim, aaaa is Kevin_Kershaw
15:08:51 [Zakim]: +Kevin_Kershaw; got it
15:09:18 [pal]: zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:09:18 [Zakim]: ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:09:29 [glenn]: zakim, aabb is Niels
15:09:29 [Zakim]: +Niels; got it
15:09:40 [pal]: zakim, who's on the call?
15:09:40 [Zakim]: On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], Kevin_Kershaw, davide, Niels, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:10:19 [niels_thorwirth]: niels_thorwirth has joined #html-media
15:10:33 [glenn]: zakim, [IPcaller] is pal
15:10:33 [Zakim]: +pal; got it
15:10:43 [glenn]: zakim, Niels is niels_thorwirth
15:10:44 [Zakim]: +niels_thorwirth; got it
15:11:00 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Previous meeting minutes
15:11:06 [adrianba]: glenn: any comments?
15:11:13 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Review of action items and issues
15:11:21 [adrianba]: glenn: actions are in the agenda
15:11:27 [glenn]: ISSUE-1?
15:11:27 [trackbot]: ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:27 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1
15:11:27 [adrianba]: ISSUE-1?
15:11:27 [trackbot]: ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:28 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1
15:11:54 [ddorwin]: We usually just note this and move on.
15:11:57 [adrianba]: glenn: any comments?
15:12:08 [adrianba]: TOPIC: EME status and bugs
15:12:28 [adrianba]: glenn: EME draft last updated jul 16
15:12:31 [adrianba]: ... 15 bugs open
15:12:34 [glenn]: http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:13:05 [glenn]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944
15:13:13 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop
15:13:25 [adrianba]: glenn: there were a couple of comments since the last meeting
15:13:31 [adrianba]: ... i proposed a way to resolve this bug
15:13:50 [adrianba]: ... Robert O'Callahan responded that it wasn't as strong as he desired
15:14:01 [adrianba]: ... i responded that he'd have to convince the group of his proposal
15:14:13 [adrianba]: ... he's requesting a fairly strong set of information about CDM
15:14:32 [adrianba]: ... i'm recommending a voluntary registry in the wiki
15:15:13 [adrianba]: adrianba: i'd be okay with the wiki proposal
15:15:28 [adrianba]: glenn: does anyone support robert's proposal?
15:15:40 [adrianba]: ... does anyone think we should keep it open for longer?
15:15:58 [glenn]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c15
15:16:02 [adrianba]: ... can we get an action on the editors to implement the resolution in comment 15
15:17:16 [adrianba]: johnsim: i'm a little unclear about what we're adding to the spec
15:17:21 [adrianba]: ... just a link to a wiki?
15:18:02 [adrianba]: glenn: not suggesting making it a recommendation - in order to avoid collisions of key system names you can register here
15:18:23 [adrianba]: johnsim: so it would just be a registry of the names?
15:18:31 [adrianba]: glenn: there could be a comments field
15:18:37 [adrianba]: q+
15:19:34 [adrianba]: ack adr
15:19:53 [adrianba]: adrianba: recommend glenn creates the wiki page, maybe with an example entry, and adds proposed spec text to the bug
15:20:09 [glenn]: Action: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names
15:20:09 [trackbot]: Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:20:59 [glenn]: Action glenn to draft spec language for inclusions as note to address comment #15 of bug 20944
15:20:59 [trackbot]: Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:21:20 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 20965 - EME results in a loss of control over security and privacy.
15:21:25 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965
15:22:13 [adrianba]: glenn: i proposed a section called privacy concerns
15:22:21 [adrianba]: ... giving an example from webcrypto
15:22:27 [glenn]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965#c32
15:22:44 [adrianba]: glenn: any input on this?
15:23:36 [glenn]: adrianba: 2 parts to this issue
15:23:49 [glenn]: ... specific information: what are privacy implications?
15:24:15 [glenn]: ... does the design support take privacy into account?
15:24:23 [glenn]: zakim, who's noisy?
15:24:33 [Zakim]: glenn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: johnsim (90%), adrianba (25%)
15:24:44 [glenn]: zakim, mute johnsim
15:24:44 [Zakim]: johnsim should now be muted
15:25:35 [glenn]: adrianba: so is api asynch at right time to be able to ask user for permissions, etc?
15:25:42 [johnsim]: my microphone was muted at the time (???)
15:26:47 [glenn]: adrianba: we've discussed this in relation to other topics
15:27:11 [glenn]: ... between time session is created and session is ready, then user could be prompted if user decides not to allow use of EME
15:27:22 [glenn]: ... but haven't exhaustively considered this topic
15:27:47 [glenn]: ... henri's comment #9 also talks about storage of data
15:28:32 [glenn]: glenn: to adrianba, do you have any recommendations on how to proceed with this bug?
15:28:52 [glenn]: adrianba: prompt more discussion on ML ?
15:29:27 [adrianba]: glenn: it seems to me that a better way would be to attempt to draft some minimal language that could be used to fill in a section on privacy considerations
15:29:36 [adrianba]: ... do we have a section in the document on this right now?
15:29:57 [adrianba]: glenn: any volunteers to draft this?
15:30:32 [adrianba]: glenn: i will go ahead an volunteer to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 [glenn]: Action glenn to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 [trackbot]: Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:31:16 [adrianba]: glenn: not an expert on this topic, will probably copy something from somewhere else and then put it on the list to solicit comments
15:31:21 [Zakim]: -johnsim
15:31:34 [kkershaw]: kkershaw has joined #html-media
15:31:40 [adrianba]: ... and also note other editorial comments, for example needing to look at API async
15:31:54 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft.a]
15:31:57 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of security and privacy demanded.
15:32:02 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966
15:32:32 [glenn]: zakim, [Microsoft.a] is johnsim
15:32:32 [Zakim]: +johnsim; got it
15:32:36 [johnsim]: zakim, who is on the call
15:32:36 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on the call', johnsim
15:33:04 [adrianba]: glenn: in february, adrian asked for more information from the submitter
15:33:17 [adrianba]: ... comment 1 had asked for spec text to change
15:33:59 [adrianba]: ... i propose that we close this issue without prejudice because there is no information provided
15:34:09 [adrianba]: ... but it could be opened with new information
15:34:14 [adrianba]: ... any objection to this?
15:34:48 [ddorwin]: Also note that privacy is being discussed/addressed in bug 20965.
15:35:02 [glenn]: RESOLVED: close bug 20966 without prejudice due to lack of essential information; allow reopening only if substantive new info is provided;
15:35:30 [adrianba]: glenn: any objections to this resolution?
15:35:47 [glenn]: Action adrianba to implement closing 20966
15:35:47 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-30 - Implement closing 20966 [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-08-13].
15:36:14 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
15:36:20 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854
15:36:30 [adrianba]: glenn: resolution that adrian would implement solution as discussed
15:36:35 [adrianba]: ... any progress?
15:37:26 [adrianba]: adrianba: no progress yet - still a little discussion in the bug
15:37:39 [adrianba]: ... assume the resolution was without the state attribute
15:37:52 [adrianba]: ... i wasn't present at the end of the meeting last time
15:37:53 [ddorwin]: I don't feel strongly about the state attribute (certainly not as strongly as I do about addressing the bug overall).
15:38:05 [adrianba]: ... not clear if the state attribute should be a separate bug or discussed here
15:38:35 [ddorwin]: If people have use cases for the state, that's fine. We could always add them later, though.
15:38:44 [adrianba]: glenn: david, is there a way to resolve your comment?
15:39:00 [adrianba]: ... anyone proposing adding new information?
15:39:25 [adrianba]: ... then we should go ahead and act on the action and raise any issues
15:39:35 [ddorwin]: s/the state/the state attribute/
15:39:44 [ddorwin]: s/add them/add it/
15:39:51 [glenn]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5
15:40:40 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)
15:40:44 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855
15:42:04 [adrianba]: glenn: sounds like this needs further thought
15:42:17 [adrianba]: ... if anyone has thoughts post to the mailing list
15:42:30 [adrianba]: ACTION-25?
15:42:30 [trackbot]: ACTION-25 -- David Dorwin to and John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 -- due 2013-07-19 -- OPEN
15:42:30 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25
15:43:08 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
15:43:13 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
15:43:20 [adrianba]: johnsim: i have not completed this
15:43:33 [adrianba]: ACTION-25 due in 1 week
15:43:33 [trackbot]: Set ACTION-25 And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 due date to 2013-08-13.
15:43:57 [adrianba]: ACTION-27?
15:43:57 [trackbot]: ACTION-27 -- Adrian Bateman to add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close -- due 2013-07-09 -- CLOSED
15:43:57 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27
15:44:20 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute
15:44:25 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750
15:44:49 [adrianba]: glenn: waiting for mark's input - mark's not on the call at the moment
15:45:01 [adrianba]: ... joe proposes to keep close but indicate that it is a hint
15:45:14 [adrianba]: ... joe's not on the call
15:45:22 [adrianba]: ... sounds like we need to defer until the next meeting
15:45:56 [glenn]: ACTION-27 due in 1 week
15:45:56 [trackbot]: Set ACTION-27 Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close due date to 2013-08-13.
15:46:25 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
15:46:38 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515
15:46:50 [adrianba]: glenn: david, do you have input on this?
15:46:53 [glenn]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c11
15:47:06 [adrianba]: ddorwin: i was just clarifying what i think joe had said
15:47:27 [adrianba]: glenn: do we have enough information to make progress?
15:47:41 [adrianba]: ddorwin: probably need to propose text and then discuss that
15:47:48 [adrianba]: glenn: would you like an action to do that?
15:48:03 [adrianba]: ddorwin: i probably won't do it in the next couple of weeks
15:48:19 [glenn]: action ddorwin to propose text to resolve bug 18515
15:48:19 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-31 - Propose text to resolve bug 18515 [on David Dorwin - due 2013-08-13].
15:48:45 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs
15:48:51 [adrianba]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21869
15:49:09 [adrianba]: glenn: fairly lengthy thread with joe and david
15:49:13 [adrianba]: ... status?
15:49:32 [adrianba]: ddorwin: i replied to the thread - haven't had chance to look at the reply from this morning
15:49:42 [adrianba]: glenn: need to leave this open
15:49:52 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Other bugs for discussion
15:49:56 [adrianba]: glenn: any others?
15:50:23 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Any other business
15:50:28 [adrianba]: glenn: hearing none
15:50:38 [adrianba]: ... Next EME meeting will be on Tue Aug 13.
15:50:45 [adrianba]: TOPIC: Adjournment
15:50:52 [Zakim]: -Kevin_Kershaw
15:50:54 [Zakim]: -pladd
15:50:56 [adrianba]: glenn: thanks everyone
15:51:01 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
15:51:02 [Zakim]: -adrianba
15:51:02 [Zakim]: -niels_thorwirth
15:51:04 [Zakim]: -davide
15:51:05 [Zakim]: -pal
15:51:06 [Zakim]: -johnsim
15:51:07 [Zakim]: -ddorwin
15:51:11 [adrianba]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:11 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:51:15 [adrianba]: rrsagent, make logs public
15:51:26 [glenn]: trackbot, end meeting
15:51:26 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
15:51:26 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been pladd, glenn, +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, johnsim, [Microsoft], Kevin_Kershaw, pal, niels_thorwirth
15:51:34 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:51:34 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html trackbot
15:51:35 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-actions.rdf :
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names [1]
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-irc#T15-20-09