18:57:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:57:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-irc
18:58:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:58:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:58:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:58:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
18:58:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:58:03 <trackbot> Date: 30 July 2013
18:58:17 <clown> rrsagent, make logs public
18:58:30 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0016.html
18:58:36 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:59:09 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:59:37 <clown> scribenick:  clown
18:59:40 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:00:40 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:00:46 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:00:54 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:54 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:01:02 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:01:02 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:05:22 <Zakim> +??P0
19:05:25 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:05:27 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:11:06 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:14:53 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:15:30 <clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0016.html
19:15:41 <clown> zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelley
19:15:41 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelley; got it
19:16:39 <clown> Topic:  Meeting for next two weeks while Joseph is away.
19:17:04 <clown> JS:  I am on vacation for the next two weeks.
19:17:39 <clown> JS: Do you have have interest in running this meeting while I'm away.
19:17:49 <clown> CS:  I can do that.
19:18:08 <clown> MC:  I'll try to come.  I'm here to support process and timeline acceleration.
19:18:36 <clown> CS:  I've been meeting with Rich and making a second pass at some of the tests that are faling.
19:18:50 <clown> CS:  We've made some progress in that.
19:19:01 <clown> CS:  But, we have raised some issues.
19:19:51 <clown> JS: I'll leave it to you, cyns, to arrange with davidb to have these meetings.
19:20:00 <clown> JS:  and you are welcome to use this chat room and bots
19:20:11 <clown> JS: but if you change the time, contact Michael.
19:20:27 <clown> MC:  I could set up an impromptu room, but it's not easy to do that.
19:21:01 <clown> MC:  I just need advance notice to set up zakim.
19:21:17 <clown> MC:  Whether I can make that time is an open question.
19:21:47 <clown> Topic:  ISSUE-596
19:21:52 <clown> issue-596?
19:21:52 <trackbot> ISSUE-596 -- Failure of aria-invalid mappings for AT-SPI in test cases: mapping is via text attributes, not object attributes but is not exposed. -- open
19:21:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/596
19:22:56 <clown> JS:  There are at least two test cases of aria-invalid that fail on AT-SPI
19:23:01 <clown> JS: but they pass on IA2.
19:26:05 <clown> JS:  I have been discussing with Alex in emails.
19:26:18 <clown> JS: Alex believes it should succeed, and has asked for screen shots from me.
19:26:28 <clown> JS: I will provide after the meeting ends.
19:27:01 <clown> CS:  Have you got the right version of FF?
19:27:10 <clown> JS:  Yes, according to Alex.
19:27:22 <clown> Topics:  Outstanding issues and actions.
19:27:45 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10
19:28:41 <clown> Topic:  ISSUE-595
19:28:46 <clown> issue-595?
19:28:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-595 -- treegrid for UIA has outline roles vs. gridcell roles. IE implemented gridcell - Change it? -- raised
19:28:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/595
19:29:51 <clown> CS:  Currently the UAIG says to map treegrid items to outline roles.
19:30:07 <clown> CS:  But IE actually maps to gridcell.
19:31:45 <clown> JS:  Looks like the UIA express is using MSAA.
19:31:58 <clown> CS:  Yes, but it appears that IE is doing something different.
19:32:54 <clown> CS:  Interesting that pure UIA says to map to "DataGrid"
19:33:01 <clown> CS:  Tree is mapped to outline.
19:37:06 <clown> CS:  change it to ROLE_CELL
19:37:11 <clown> JS:  ROLE_CELL?
19:39:12 <clown> CS:  It should be DataItem in the pure UIA column
19:39:54 <clown> CS:  It should be, for UIA express, ROLE_SYSTEM_CELL
19:41:34 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/595
19:41:42 <clown> JS:  I made notes in the issue.
19:43:16 <clown> JS:  Any other issues that you want to discuss
19:43:27 <clown> s/want to discuss/want to discuss?/
19:43:42 <clown> Topic:  ISSUE-597
19:43:45 <clown> ISSUE-597?
19:43:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-597 -- When IE encounters an id that is on more than one element in a (aria-describedby or aria-labelledby) nothing is mapped. -- raised
19:43:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/597
19:44:37 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0207.html
19:45:28 <clown> JS:  I couldn't find anywhere in the UAIG or spec talking about duplicate IDs.
19:45:41 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/1.0/CR/implementation-report
19:46:14 <clown> MC:  that would have been in the aria spec, but not the UAIG.
19:46:27 <clown> MC: perhaps not in a particular section, but something we wanted to deal with.
19:46:46 <clown> MC:  I'm sure the UAIG has some requirement in it.
19:48:54 <clown> MC:  The author errors section mentions unresolved IDs, but not duplicate IDs.
19:49:08 <clown> MC:  This suggests we had something in ARIA about it, not in the UAIG.
19:49:27 <clown> MC: I just checked a version of UAIG from Nov last year, and it's not in that one.
19:49:39 <clown> MC:  not seeing the word duplicate.
19:50:16 <clown> MC:  probably two years ago that we wrote this.
19:50:59 <clown> MC:  maybe we thought we should have a test for it, and were intending to put it in the spec.
19:51:22 <clown> MC: Maybe want to keep the test for other purposes.
19:51:34 <clown> JS:  what is that other kind of testing called?  Not CR testing, but …?
19:51:42 <clown> MC:  Interoperability testing.
19:52:06 <clown> JS:  Might this be an interoperable testing.
19:52:26 <clown> MC: Yes, that might be a place for it.
19:52:43 <clown> MC:  At this point, I'm okay with marking these are not required.
19:54:01 <clown> JS:  The requirement for IDs being unique predates ARIA
19:54:26 <clown> MC:  Yes, that goes back a long time, but various specs have to deal with these somehow.
19:54:49 <clown> CS: Should we mark these as not required?
19:55:18 <clown> MC:  Is duplicate IDs a common problem that we need to look out for?
19:56:16 <clown> JS:  from my dojo and jquery work:  they go out of their way to make sure that IDs are unique.
19:56:33 <clown> JS:  By the time it reaches an actual web page, a dojo/jquery widget will work.
19:56:55 <clown> CS:  I've similar experience with Visual Basic
19:57:35 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0208.html
19:58:19 <clown> JS:  RIch thinks that this is not needed.
19:58:30 <clown> MC:  I think the answer is no and close the topic.
19:59:04 <clown> JS:  Shoudl we close the issue?
19:59:20 <clown> CS:  yes, and let's mark the test cases as not required for CR.
20:01:26 <clown> JS:  I made a note of which test cases were not required for CR, and closed the issue.
20:02:27 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelley
20:02:32 <clown> RRSAgent:  make minutes.
20:02:32 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:02:39 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:02:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:05:22 <clown> zakim, bye
20:05:22 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, Cynthia_Shelley
20:05:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:05:32 <clown> regrets:  David_Bolter
20:05:36 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:05:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:08:51 <clown> s/Might this be an interoperable testing./Might this be interoperable testing?/
20:08:53 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:08:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:10:21 <clown> s/Shoudl/Should/
20:10:23 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:10:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/30-aapi-minutes.html clown