20:28:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-svg-irc
20:28:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:28:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM already started
20:29:00 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:29:00 <trackbot> Date: 25 July 2013
20:29:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:29:55 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
20:29:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:29:59 <heycam|away> Zakim, [ is me
20:29:59 <Zakim> +heycam|away; got it
20:31:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:33:49 <heycam> Zakim, code?
20:33:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 7841 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), heycam
20:34:12 <Zakim> + +61.2.980.5.aabb
20:34:16 <Thomas> Thomas has joined #svg
20:34:21 <nikos> Zakim, +61 is me
20:34:23 <Zakim> +nikos; got it
20:34:27 <Zakim> +Rich
20:34:44 <Cyril> zakim, who is here
20:34:44 <Zakim> Cyril, you need to end that query with '?'
20:34:47 <Cyril> zakim, who is here?
20:34:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see +49.341.263.2.aaaa, heycamaway, [IPcaller], nikos, Rich
20:34:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Thomas, Zakim, RRSAgent, Cyril, cabanier, krit, thorton, richardschwerdtfeger, glenn, TabAtkins, jaseg, nikos, heycam, trackbot, ed, pdr, plinss
20:34:59 <Zakim> + +1.425.373.aacc
20:35:03 <Cyril> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:35:03 <Zakim> +Cyril; got it
20:36:58 <Cyril> Scribe: Cyril
20:37:02 <Cyril> ScribeNick: Cyril
20:37:07 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JulSep/0026.html
20:37:19 <Cyril> Topic: Review of css-fonts-3 LCWD
20:37:31 <Cyril>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JulSep/0005.html
20:37:43 <Cyril> heycam: we've received review requests from many specs
20:38:00 <Cyril> ... CSS fonts 3
20:38:09 <Cyril> ... the new things in there is font variant
20:38:21 <Cyril> ... related to SVG fonts in Open Type
20:38:34 <Cyril> ... relevant for us, because we turn off ligatures in text paths
20:38:40 <Cyril> ... we might want to review it
20:39:03 <Cyril> ... has anyone interest in reviewing it ?
20:39:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:39:12 <Cyril> ... if not, I can review it
20:39:23 <cabanier> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:39:23 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
20:39:52 <Cyril> Cyril: Chris might be interested in reviewing it
20:40:11 <Cyril> nikos: quickly how is font variant related to SVG in open type
20:40:34 <Cyril> heycam: will talk about that in the next topics
20:40:53 <Cyril> ACTION: heycam to review css-fonts-3 LCWD spec and coordinate with Chris
20:40:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3514 - Review css-fonts-3 LCWD spec and coordinate with Chris [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-08-01].
20:41:27 <Cyril> heycam: it's probably a good idea to send an email, saying we had a look and have no particular comment
20:41:34 <Cyril> Topic: review request for css-variables-1 LCWD
20:41:44 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/mid/51F05942.2070603@mcc.id.au
20:41:57 <Cyril> heycam: overlap with the SVG Params spec we discussed in the past
20:42:11 <Cyril> ... apart from that, shouldn't impact us too much
20:42:25 <Cyril> Cyril: what about the use element and the shadow dom
20:42:31 <Cyril> heycam: I don't think it is related
20:43:14 <Cyril> Cyril: is CSS variables about defining your own property but then it follow normal inheritance
20:43:18 <Cyril> heycam: yes, that's right
20:43:53 <Cyril> ... we haven't sorted out what we have to do with use and shadow DOM but it seems unrelated
20:44:23 <Cyril> ... unless someone has an interest, I'm happy to review it and coordinate with Doug, as he seems to be the relevant person
20:44:41 <krit> zakim, who is on the call?
20:44:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see +49.341.263.2.aaaa, heycamaway, Cyril, nikos, Rich, +1.425.373.aacc, cabanier
20:44:54 <Cyril> ACTION: heycam to review css-variables-1 LCWD spec and coordinate with Doug
20:44:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3515 - Review css-variables-1 LCWD spec and coordinate with Doug [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-08-01].
20:44:57 <krit> Zakim, aaaa is me
20:44:57 <Zakim> +krit; got it
20:45:37 <Cyril> Topic: Event definitions in SVG 2
20:45:51 <Cyril> heycam: we had a short discussion on the mailing list about that
20:46:00 <Cyril> ... it seems resolved by now
20:46:33 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: the issue in the event section of our spec
20:46:48 <Cyril> ... I want to figure out how to reduce it
20:47:01 <Cyril> ... the mutation event will be removed from the spec
20:47:06 <Cyril> ... but how do we remove them
20:47:19 <Cyril> ... do we deprecate them or remove them completely
20:47:22 <Cyril> ... that's the first issue
20:47:48 <Cyril> heycam: leaving aside that we don't want to support mutation event, they are pretty orthogonal to the spec and shouldn't be defined in our spec anyway
20:47:58 <Cyril> ... they redefine a lot of thing in our spec
20:48:06 <Cyril> ... probably this was an editorial choice
20:48:26 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: we want to try to rely on normal definitions in other specifications
20:48:56 <Cyril> ... do we want to remove any reference mutation events in our spec
20:49:14 <Cyril> s/in our spec/from our spec/
20:49:18 <Cyril> heycam: yes
20:49:41 <Cyril> ... there is no specific behaviour for them in SVG
20:49:56 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: the second thing discussed is click vs. activate
20:50:16 <Cyril> ... should we remove the activate event and go with the click
20:50:41 <Cyril> Cyril: activate was triggered by Enter
20:50:59 <Cyril> heycam: click events should be dispatched as well with links
20:51:29 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: we have support for keyboard events that we did not have before
20:52:05 <Cyril> ... I added keyboard events last week
20:52:38 <Cyril> ... I referenced the UI event spec, in TR space now
20:53:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/interact.html#SVGEvents
20:53:58 <Cyril> Cyril: a bit annoying that it is changing from what we had in SVG Tiny 1.2
20:54:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/interact.html#SVGEvents
20:54:13 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: yes, the DOM 3 Events spec is gone and replaced by UI EVents
20:54:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/default/source_respec.htm#keyboard-events
20:55:19 <Cyril> Cyril: it is ok with me if it is the stable spec now
20:55:53 <Cyril> ... wouldn't like it to change again for SVG 3.0
20:58:38 <Cyril> ... is it still possible to start an animation from a key name, like it was in SVG Tiny 1.2 ?
20:58:46 <Cyril> heycam: don't know yet
20:59:07 <Cyril> ... what's the current thinking on starting an animation with keys
21:00:05 <Cyril> Cyril: my recollection from Brian's explanation is that accessKey wouldn't work in some mode, as defined in the SVG integration spec
21:00:23 <Cyril> heycam: looking a DOM 4 Events, I can't see the activate event
21:00:43 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: Doug said that activate was gone indeed
21:01:11 <Cyril> heycam: that means all events from the SVG spec named DOM_* can go
21:01:42 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: there is a DOMFocusIn, DOMFocusout and DOMActivate
21:01:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/default/source_respec.htm#
21:02:53 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: you mentionned that we probably want to refer to a spec than define it
21:03:05 <Cyril> heycam: I don't like the big table in the interaction chapter
21:03:40 <Cyril> ... I don't think that other specs that use DOM events define what click means
21:03:53 <Cyril> ... I don't know what level of description is required in the SVG spec
21:04:59 <Cyril> Cyril: redefining is bad, but have a short summary of possible events with references is useful
21:05:32 <Cyril> richardschwerdtfeger: I will take another look at the event spec
21:05:59 <Cyril> Topic: SVG in OpenType update
21:06:08 <Cyril>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svgopentype/2013Jul/0003.html
21:06:22 <Cyril> heycam: Sirus and I have been on working on merging our proposals
21:06:32 <Cyril> ... to have a unified proposal to bring to the Open Type people
21:06:40 <Cyril> ... Sirus has been working on the editing
21:06:56 <heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svgopentype/2013Jul/0003.html
21:07:17 <Cyril> ... that's a Word document
21:07:36 <Cyril> ... we thought the best approach would be to have the main stuff in the Open Type specification itself
21:07:47 <Cyril> ... and specific SVG stuff (context ...) in SVG 32
21:07:52 <Cyril> s/SVG 32/SVG 2/
21:08:05 <Cyril> ... we probably won't have many normative SVG things
21:08:28 <Cyril> ... I'll probably work also on integration in HTML
21:08:36 <Cyril> s/Sirus/Sairus/
21:09:31 <Cyril> ... one of the issue resolved recently, how to identify that an SVG element is used for a particular glyph id
21:09:41 <Cyril> ... in our spec we have a glyph id attribute
21:09:50 <Cyril> ... in Sairus, he used the id attribute with a particular name
21:09:58 <heycam> id="g4"
21:10:00 <heycam> id="glyph5"
21:10:07 <heycam> we had glyphid="6"
21:10:41 <Cyril> Cyril: wasn't there another option to have a table in Open Type giving the mapping
21:10:59 <Cyril> heycam: my concern with using the plain id was to go into author space and require specific id
21:11:09 <Cyril> ... that was the reason to have a new attribute
21:11:27 <Cyril> ... the other option was to map glyph id to names
21:11:34 <Cyril> ... but it's probably unnecessary
21:11:49 <Cyril> ... in the end, I agreed to use the id attribute with glyph and number
21:12:04 <Cyril> nikos: why was Sairus going to other way?
21:12:16 <Cyril> heycam: he wanted to avoid adding features to SVG when possible
21:12:32 <Cyril> ... to not modify the SVG engine when possible
21:12:54 <Cyril> nikos: in a way it's nice to not have in SVG things just used for SVG in Open Type
21:13:08 <Cyril> heycam: yes, the specification changes will be small anyway
21:13:55 <Cyril> Cyril: maybe people want to use SVG 1.1 rendering engine as is
21:14:03 <Cyril> heycam: we haven't decided on that
21:14:11 <Cyril> ... probably SVG 2 because of the context thing
21:14:37 <Cyril> ... the question of profile also hasn't been decided
21:15:06 <Cyril> ... the other main difference in that new copy of the spec
21:15:17 <Cyril> ... is in the definition of palette
21:15:29 <Cyril> ... to be used inside the SVG content
21:15:41 <Cyril> nikos: it wasn't clear in the spec
21:17:22 <Cyril> heycam: there was a proposal from Microsoft to combine multiple glyphs and define a color for each glyph
21:17:29 <Cyril> ... apparently shipping in MS Windows 8.1
21:18:00 <Cyril> ... it's nice but has limitations in what you can do (e.g gradients or animations)
21:18:12 <Cyril> ... but it had palette
21:18:53 <Cyril> ... in the spec at the moment, color 0, color 1, color 2 ... in the font as a palette and have multiple palettes
21:19:09 <Cyril> ... and in the SVG spec, you can use CSS variables to use the palette
21:19:27 <Cyril> ... with names: color0, color1, ...
21:19:48 <Cyril> ... the question is how to select which palette
21:19:58 <Cyril> ... maybe a font variant or property
21:20:10 <Cyril> ... and how do we support custom colors from the outside
21:20:30 <Cyril> nikos: you would need to tknow the number of colors in the font
21:20:52 <Cyril> heycam: yes, similar to other features
21:21:54 <Cyril> ... so that's it, please read it and send feedback
21:22:06 <Cyril> nikos: looks pretty good except selecting colors from outside
21:22:16 <Cyril> heycam: yes, needs collaboration from outside
21:24:00 <Cyril> Topic: media fragment identifiers
21:24:11 <Cyril> Cyril: I've worked an ACTION 3442
21:24:21 <heycam> action-3442?
21:24:21 <trackbot> ACTION-3442 -- Cyril Concolato to add Media Fragments support to SVG 2. -- due 2013-02-14 -- CLOSED
21:24:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3442
21:24:22 <Cyril> ... and committed some changes to the spec
21:24:39 <Cyril> Cyril: would like people to review it
21:25:04 <heycam> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/linking.html#SVGFragmentIdentifiers
21:26:25 <Cyril> heycam: is it the same as HTML
21:26:30 <Cyril> Cyril: no, not applicable
21:26:46 <Cyril> heycam: I'm not sure t= would have been valid id anyway
21:28:28 <Cyril> heycam: I have not seen that syntax: * before parenthesis
21:29:09 <Cyril> heycam: what happens when you use Media Fragments has well as SVG view at the same time
21:29:25 <Cyril> Cyril: that's possible only if you combine timesegments and svg view
21:29:41 <Cyril> heycam: you cant' have svgView and xywh at the same time
21:29:44 <Cyril> Cyril: right
21:29:58 <Cyril> heycam: ok, not sure what that would mean anyway
21:31:19 <Cyril> The rendering of the SVG Document shall be as if the setCurrentTime method on the SVG Document element had been called with the begin time value from the fragment identifier
21:31:51 <Cyril> heycam: in MF, is there a way to specify a duration
21:31:58 <Cyril> Cyril: you can specify start and end
21:32:08 <Cyril> Additionally, if an end time value is provided in the fragment identifier, the effect is equivalent to calling the pauseAnimations method on the SVG Document when the document time reaches the end time of the fragment identifier.
21:32:53 <Cyril> Cyril: that part should probably be reviewed by the Web Animation guys
21:33:03 <Cyril> heycam: from a very brief look, that section looks ok
21:33:24 <Cyril> Topic: xml namespace prefix
21:33:37 <Cyril> Cyril: I need advice on how to carry ACTION 3412
21:33:45 <Cyril> zakim, action-3412
21:33:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'action-3412', Cyril
21:33:47 <heycam> action-3412?
21:33:47 <trackbot> ACTION-3412 -- Cyril Concolato to fix spec to remove need for xml namespace prefix -- due 2013-02-10 -- OPEN
21:33:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3412
21:33:49 <Cyril> zakim, action-3412 ?
21:33:49 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Cyril.
21:35:01 <Cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jul/0023.html
21:36:23 <nikos> http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-svg-minutes.html#item13
21:36:59 <Cyril> heycam: I think the base element prceded the xml:base attribute in the HTML spec
21:38:26 <Cyril> Cyril: for xml:lang, in HTML5 it's defined in no namespace and xml:
21:38:27 <Cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jul/0023.html
21:38:30 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#the-lang-and-xml:lang-attributes
21:39:12 <Cyril> Cyril: xml:space is easier
21:39:19 <Cyril> ... we just deprecate it
21:39:45 <heycam> we were going to have a UA style sheet rule that maps xml:space to the white-space property
21:40:45 <Cyril> Cyril: we should continue to discuss xml:base by email and for the others the action is clear (do as HTML (lang), and deprecate (space))
21:40:48 <Cyril> heycam: yes
21:40:57 <Cyril> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:40:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-svg-minutes.html Cyril
21:40:58 <Zakim> - +1.425.373.aacc
21:41:10 <Zakim> -cabanier
21:41:12 <Zakim> -heycamaway
21:41:13 <Zakim> -nikos
21:41:16 <Zakim> -krit
21:41:27 <Zakim> -Cyril
21:41:31 <Zakim> -Rich
21:41:33 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM has ended
21:41:33 <Zakim> Attendees were +49.341.263.2.aaaa, heycam|away, +61.2.980.5.aabb, nikos, Rich, +1.425.373.aacc, Cyril, cabanier, krit
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