19:00:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:00:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-irc
19:00:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:00:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:00:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:00:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start now
19:00:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:00:26 <trackbot> Date: 23 July 2013
19:00:37 <clown> trackbot, make log public
19:00:37 <trackbot> Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, make log public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
19:00:44 <clown> trackbot, make logs public
19:00:44 <trackbot> Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, make logs public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
19:01:24 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
19:02:36 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:02:43 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:02:54 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:54 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:03:01 <Zakim> +??P4
19:03:19 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:19 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:04:51 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0009.html
19:04:59 <clown> scribenick: clown
19:05:11 <clown> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:05:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:05:11 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
19:05:41 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:06:34 <clown> Topic:  Cynthia and RIch's meeting.
19:06:41 <clown> CS: Met with Rich
19:07:00 <clown> CS:  went over tests, got some passing, made recommedations for changes.
19:07:07 <clown> CS:  Joseph has made the changes.
19:07:09 <clown> JS:  Yes.
19:07:20 <clown> CS:  I need to got back and redo some of the tests.
19:08:11 <clown> CS:  I"m also setting up a Windows 8 machine in the hope that ones that fail in IE10 might pass in IE11.
19:08:26 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0009.html
19:08:39 <clown> Topic:  aria-checked is undefined.
19:08:48 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property_table
19:09:37 <clown> JS:  in the states/properites table, I think apple is the only one correct.
19:09:53 <clown> CS:  if this is a checkbox, it has to be checkable and unchecked.
19:10:16 <clown> JS:  but this the general case.
19:10:39 <clown> JS: What should it say if not a check box?
19:11:25 <clown> CS:  the way it's described here is for a checkable object.
19:11:45 <clown> JS:  I think it should state for a non-checkable object.
19:12:19 <clown> CS:  Then it should be "Not mapped".
19:12:23 <clown> JS:  Like apple?
19:12:56 <clown> JS:  I think we could add to the lef column "treat as false if checkbable item", where it lists checkbox, radio, etc.
19:13:07 <clown> CS:  There is a list of the ones that require a checkable state.
19:16:34 <clown> JS:  this will allow me to finiish a test case for aria-checked.
19:16:54 <clown> Topic:  ISSUE-583
19:16:58 <clown> ISSUE-583?
19:16:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an element having aria-activedescendant should not all be focusable -- open
19:16:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583
19:17:46 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0118.html
19:17:57 <clown> CS:  I disagree.
19:18:18 <clown> CS:  We had giant discussion about this, and we finally reached a compromise.
19:18:28 <clown> CS:  I do not want to re-open the topic.
19:20:42 <clown> JS:  he says that the ID might not been assigned until just before it becomes focussed.
19:20:57 <clown> CS:  I would like to see an example of a page that works that way.
19:22:15 <clown> JS:  another one of his complaints is that many children have a role and an ID for styling, but won't be active descendatns.
19:22:32 <clown> CS: That doesn't mean it needs to become an active descendant.
19:22:53 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
19:23:12 <clown> "For any element with an ID attribute, where the element is a descendant of an element with the aria-activedescendant attribute, apply the following accessibility API states to the target to ensure the object is accessible:"
19:23:36 <clown> "Focusable, if the element also has a WAI-ARIA http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#def_role"
19:24:34 <clown> CS:  Right, but that doesn't mean it has to be a target.  If the author doesn't make it an active descedant, it won't become one.
19:26:08 <clown> JS:  Consider an AT asking how many focusable elements are there in the container, there would be extra elements counted (if they had an ID and a role).
19:26:20 <clown> CS:  I think this is the only way it would work in Windows.
19:26:38 <clown> CS:  Again, we had a long discusssion about this, and this is what we could agree on.
19:27:01 <clown> CS:  Even if James is right, I would want to not reopen this until ARIA 1.1.
19:28:45 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013AprJun/0476.html
19:28:57 <clown> James Craig's first email about the topic ^
19:30:52 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
19:31:04 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
19:31:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:31:44 <clown> Topic;  Testing.
19:32:04 <clown> MC:  Like to deal with some issues prior to next Mon's call.
19:32:34 <MichaelC> UAIG test suite: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=2
19:32:55 <MichaelC> UAIG tests from a year ago: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA/Tests/Testable_Statements#User_Agent_Implementation_Guide_Testable_Statements
19:33:13 <clown> JS:  165 more tests.
19:33:33 <clown> MC:  are we testing these on the same platforms as ARIA.
19:33:40 <clown> MC:  I assume so.
19:34:02 <clown> MC:  Some tests are not platform specific.
19:34:24 <clown> MC:  Some of the tables don't have IA2.
19:34:31 <clown> MC:  I'm not sure what that means.
19:34:45 <clown> JS:  Can I have an example?
19:35:58 <clown> JS:  Test case 6 might be a duplicate.
19:36:13 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=111
19:36:36 <clown> MC:  this test didn't come from the UAIG, and it only has three platforms in the wiki.
19:36:46 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=155
19:37:09 <clown> MC:  and this one:  there is no column for IA2.
19:38:45 <clown> JS:  It's MSAA that's applicable.
19:42:07 <clown> JS:  IA2 is not really separate from MSAA.
19:42:45 <clown> JS:  IA2 assumes MSAA roles, states, events, etc. but then adds more where information is needed.
19:43:07 <clown> JS:  IA2 is an extenstion of MSAA.
19:43:40 <clown> MC:  We need to inform the director about this in the right way so that all bases are covered.
19:47:01 <clown> MC: I think that answers my questions on platform.
19:47:18 <clown> MC:  Next, review these test cases, and make sure they are still accurate.
19:47:36 <clown> MC:  there are places in the testable statements where there were ...
19:48:48 <clown> MC:  I made a note:  "note the following need AAPI representations of the expected results wrt posinset and setsize"
19:49:11 <clown> MC:  there are things like this peppered about the wiki testable statements.
19:49:27 <clown> MC:  we need to got through and flesh these out.
19:50:05 <clown> JS:  there are a quite a few of those.
19:50:18 <clown> MC:  some will be simple; some will be more involved.
19:50:26 <clown> JS:  when is this due?
19:50:48 <clown> MC:  want to good head start on the test suite as we enter last call.
19:51:02 <clown> MC:  want to begin the testing to verify the testing methodology.
19:51:52 <clown> MC:  ideally, enough testing on at least one user agent so we are relatively sure of the test suite by the time we enter last call.
19:52:37 <clown> MC:  sometimes this is error correction.
19:54:02 <clown> MC: we also want to get to last call failry soon.
19:54:24 <clown> MC:  the UAIG becomes more of a bottleneck as the ARIA testing is completed.
19:55:15 <clown> MC:  If we want ARIA out by Dec of this year, we can't do last call less than three months from that — Sep.
19:55:26 <clown> JS:  yes, it is a challenge.
20:03:57 <clown> MC: we've had our chat; we can continue to use this time for UAIG test case discussion.
20:04:10 <clown> MC:  Should do in Mon call as well.
20:04:30 <clown> MC:  and, we need to assign people to plug these gaps, so that we can declare the test sutie good.
20:04:49 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:04:58 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:04:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:06:55 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:06:57 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
20:06:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly
20:07:23 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:07:32 <clown> regrets:  David_Bolter
20:07:37 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:07:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:08:18 <clown> s/sutie/suite/
20:08:23 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:08:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:12:23 <clown> s/complaints/points/
20:12:26 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
20:12:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:16:52 <clown> RRSagent, please part
20:16:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items