14:03:08 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 14:03:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-irc 14:03:10 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:03:11 Zakim has joined #wcag2ict 14:03:12 Zakim, this will be 2428 14:03:13 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 14:03:14 Date: 28 June 2013 14:03:14 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago 14:03:16 Loic has joined #wcag2ict 14:03:25 zakim, this is 2428 14:03:25 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM 14:03:42 zakim, ??p18 is Michael_Cooper 14:03:42 +Michael_Cooper; got it 14:03:45 +??P19 14:03:56 Zakim, ??P19 is me 14:03:57 +Loic; got it 14:03:58 +Bruce_Bailey 14:04:59 zakim, Adobe is Kiran_Kaja 14:04:59 +Kiran_Kaja; got it 14:06:00 +Judy 14:06:00 scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller 14:06:02 janina_ has joined #wcag2ict 14:06:10 scribenick: MaryJo 14:06:16 +??P22 14:06:24 zakim, ??P22 is me 14:06:24 +janina_; got it 14:08:49 topic: Survey on final draft - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results 14:09:10 q+ 14:12:24 Can't find any record of Andi's comments with Peter and Gregg's, probably not saved so she'll have to submit them on the document review. 14:13:01 Capitalization issue for 'Web' vs. 'web' will be left to Michael. 14:15:15 Peter will provide an edit tracked document to Michael at the end of the meeting. 14:16:22 It will have all of the edits except for global changes which will be provided as instructions to Michael after the meeting. 14:16:52 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xSCs 14:17:04 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/suggested-edits-to-chapter-5 14:19:12 Discussion on suggested edit to 2.1.2 to add 'component 14:19:38 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#keyboard-operation-trapping 14:20:58 s/'component/'component' to the note to say 'or other standard COMPONENT exit methods,' 14:23:18 That edit was not agreed upon, so will not get added to the document. 14:26:32 Discussion on how to mark up the 'Intent' headings. We agreed that the 'Intent from' text be included in the link text so it will also get the link visual treatment. 14:27:03 Change text to say 'Intent for' and add 'also provided below' to it 14:27:06 Global suggestion "INTENT" becoming "Intent" -> instead plan is to make them all hyperlinks from "Intent from Understanding {sc} WCAG 2.0(also provided below)" 14:27:45 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/suggested-edits-to-chapter-5 14:30:06 The word 'directly' will not be removed from the statements 'Applied directly as written.' 14:30:40 For principles and guidelines, the word 'directly' will be added to that statement for consistency. 14:32:01 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#minimize-error-identified 14:34:08 Discussion on 3.3.1 where software must make error text programmatically determinable. The web has a generalized way to make text appear on the screen through an event caused by adding text to the DOM. 14:35:16 For software, you have to use an API in order expose the event of displaying the error text to ATs so they would speak it. 14:35:25 text: sequence of characters that can be programmatically determined, where the sequence is expressing something in human language 14:35:27 q+ 14:38:49 q+ 14:38:56 q- 14:39:05 ack j 14:39:12 ack k 14:40:08 The issue is that no event will get issued unless an API call is used to expose the text insertion. 14:45:14 4.1.2 requires that and change to a UI component has to be programmatically determinable. This error text cannot be set by a user, so it can't apply to this error text. 14:46:07 1.3.1 could be used to apply to this, but programmers may not read it this way. 14:46:40 Would be best to have this situation documented in the understanding document and needs to be an action to take forwared to the WCAG working group. 14:47:44 WCAG could also add a WAI-ARIA example. 14:48:47 The sections that follow are organized according to the principles, guidelines, and success criteria from WCAG 2.0. The text of the item from WCAG 2.0 is copied as quoted text. Following that, the “intent” from Understanding WCAG 2.0 is copied as quoted text. Finally, the guidance of this document is provided. In visual presentations this is set out in a box with a blue bar to the left, to highlight that this is the content specific to this document. 14:48:54 s/add a/add an/ 14:50:53 Following that, the “intent” from Understanding WCAG 2.0 is copied as quoted text - WE MAKE NO SUBSTITUTIONS OR EDITS TO THIS TEXT. 14:51:04 We need to make clear in this paragraph that we are not providing the word substitutions for the Intent which is copied as quoted text from WCAG 2.0. 14:52:51 Gregg would like to add that with the heading of each intent section before we include it. 14:53:59 There is a suggested change for 'assistive technology' to 'assistive technologies' to be consistent, but it changes some verbiage in normative SC. 14:55:02 In the places where the substitution occurs, we had actually changed to 'technology' and this is really meant to change that back - we intend to make the pluralization consistent with WCAG 2.0 14:55:45 RESOLUTION: Accept comments by guidelines and success criteria as amended in the meeting. 14:56:23 Comments on definitions in the Appendix A: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xDefs 14:57:32 Peter meant ICT[s], without a capital 's'. 14:58:30 In the styling of the note for 'accessibility supported', it is in a yellow background but that is not used elsewhere in the document. 15:00:44 -Kiran_Kaja 15:02:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#programmaticallydetermineddef 15:03:46 In success criterion edits when we have WCAG2ICT-specific notes, it is placed outside of the white substitution box. In the glossary terms, like in 'programmatically determined', it should be done the same for consistency. 15:04:33 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#ensure-compat-parses 15:05:53 In glossary, we also need to remove the part 'and adding a note ...' in the paragraph talking about the substitutions we made in the glossary terms. This is to be consistent with the treatment in the SC's. 15:09:38 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#structuredef 15:11:50 Instead, whenever we have added notes, we won't refer to them in the statement above and they will be outside of the white box. 15:12:55 accessibility supported - since that note replaces WCAG's 5 notes, it belongs inside the white box. 15:13:24 change of context - note belongs outside the white box. 15:14:39 Also for programmatically determined, programmatically set, and structure - note belongs outside the white box. 15:17:08 'set of web pages' - was missing the header and quote due to incorrect HTML in the document. 15:18:07 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#conformancedef 15:23:22 Definition of 'contrast ratio' includes the third person 'we' 15:23:55 Because relative luminance is defined such that it cannot directly apply to hardware, please note the text in the introduction which reads 15:25:09 Crossing out is only used when words are removed where we don't make substitutions. 15:25:56 Text should say 'with these substitutions and removals....' 15:27:54 RESOLUTION: Accept editorial cleanup for the Comments on Definitions section as amended. 15:28:30 Content of the appendices: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xAppend 15:30:22 Credits - members of the task force in first section, and people in wcag working group that participated in the approval of the contents. 15:30:58 s/of the contents./of the contents in the second section. 15:34:04 Task force all agreed on Peter's edits and Mary Jo's additional edit. 15:36:33 Bulleted lists will have semicolons at the end of each bullet's text and precede the bulleted list with a colon - should just leave this to the editors to agree upon. 15:36:54 s/should/will/ 15:39:23 The documents that we cite should be in references. The understanding document that we cite should be the one that has our updated notes. 15:40:31 RESOLUTION: Accept the 'Content of the appendices' as amended. 15:40:57 q+ 15:42:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xstatus 15:42:58 q- 15:43:26 Description of the WCAG2ICT document: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xstatus 15:44:19 RESOLUTION: Accept the description of the WCAG2ICT document as proposed. 15:44:59 De-emphasizing the intent material: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xq16 15:45:33 q+ 15:46:30 There needs to be one clear main version of the document. We can have an alternate view of the document that allows collapsing. 15:47:25 We need to make sure that the snapshot of the document used as the alternate version is kept up-to-date with the main one. 15:48:07 It is unusual to put links to an alternate version inside of the main version of the document. 15:48:08 ack me 15:51:56 q+ 15:52:11 q+ 15:53:51 ack j 15:53:52 ack l 15:54:22 q+ 15:54:39 q+ 15:58:04 q+ to suggest resolution language 15:58:04 q+ 15:59:11 q+ to suggest "does anyone object to having an alternative version w/ expand/collapse" ... and it sounds like you already would have objections. 15:59:35 q- 16:00:06 q- 16:02:21 q- 16:10:07 +1 16:10:52 +Cooper 16:11:11 -Michael_Cooper 16:14:13 q+ 16:16:27 to go to publication with an expanded flat version in TR space, and a collapsed version in GL space with public question for final being A) flat only b) collapsable and collapsed only c) collapsable and expaneded only , and d) what we have now. 16:18:01 to go to publication with an Full flat version in TR space, and a collapsable collapsed version in GL space with public question for final being A) flat only b) collapsable and collapsed only c) collapsable and expanded only , and d) what we have done for this draft 16:18:47 +1 16:18:50 to go to publication with an Full flat version in TR space, and a collapsable collapsed version in GL space with public question for final being A) flat only b) collapsable and collapsed only c) collapsable and expanded only , and d) what we have done for this draft 16:19:42 RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for publication of a Full flat version in TR space, and a collapsable collapsed version in GL space with public question for final being A) flat only b) collapsable and collapsed only c) collapsable and expanded only, and d) what we have done for this draft 16:20:49 Empowered the members of the task force who are at the WCAG meeting to act for the task force in closing any final WCAG working group questions so that the working group can approve the document for publication 16:21:06 +1 in present tense 16:21:08 +1 16:21:09 Empower the members of the task force who are at the WCAG meeting to act for the task force in closing any final WCAG working group questions so that the working group can approve the document for publication 16:21:25 q+ 16:21:25 RESOLUTION: Agree to empower the members of the task force who are at the WCAG meeting to act for the task force in closing any final WCAG working group questions so that the working group can approve the document for publication. 16:21:52 commenting period: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130618/results#xComment 16:22:34 Europe - many countries have vacation in July, but others have vacation in August, so a longer time period would be best. 16:23:15 q- 16:23:42 q+ 16:24:20 We can accept comments after the end of the commenting period, so having a 30 day commenting period is not necessarily a problem. 16:26:10 We can process any early comments received before the comment period ends as soon as they are received. 16:27:16 We would publish either on July 12 or 16th. 30 days is the 15th of August, and 45 days is the 30th of August. 16:28:28 M376 is meeting on September 10 to go over comments and will have an issue using our document if we're not a working group Note by then. 16:29:25 There will be a second meeting on September 23 for M376 comment processing, so that gives us 2 more weeks to become a Note. 16:30:33 +1 to extending 16:31:51 q+ 16:34:27 RESOLUTION: Accept 5 week review period. 16:35:19 RESOLUTION: Close Judy's action item. 16:39:48 Replace "applies... 'as is'..." which appears in a few places with "applies ... 'as written'..." ( 16:39:58 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/to-do-before-3rd-final-public-draft 16:40:50 RESOLUTION: Replace 'applies...' 'as is'..." which appears in a few places with "applies ... 'as written'..." are considered editorial comments. 16:41:37 RESOLUTION: Allow editors to make other editorial changes that would not cause concern to the members of the task force. 16:42:22 We will not be meeting regularly again unless the chairs call one. 16:43:01 First meeting would be July 26 at the earliest, but probably won't happen until August. 16:43:28 -Peter_Korn 16:43:30 -[Microsoft] 16:43:32 -Bruce_Bailey 16:43:33 -Loic 16:43:33 -Mary_Jo_Mueller 16:43:34 -David_MacDonald 16:43:36 -janina_ 16:43:36 -Judy 16:43:37 -Cooper 16:43:37 -Gregg_Vanderheiden 16:43:37 WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended 16:43:37 Attendees were Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Mary_Jo_Mueller, [Microsoft], Peter_Korn, Michael_Cooper, Loic, Bruce_Bailey, Kiran_Kaja, Judy, janina_, Cooper 16:43:38 janina_ has left #wcag2ict 16:43:43 zakim, bye 16:43:43 Zakim has left #wcag2ict 16:43:48 rrsagent, make minutes 16:43:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:44:16 chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden 16:44:34 regrets: Mike_Pluke, Andi_Snow-Weaver 16:44:42 rrsagent, make minutes 16:44:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:52:27 Chair:Gregg_Vanderheiden 16:52:34 rrsagent, make minutes 16:52:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:55:47 s/needs to be an action to take forward to the WCAG working group/Gregg and Peter will take this forwared to the WCAG working group./ 16:55:56 rrsagent, make minutes. 16:55:56 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', MaryJo. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:56:05 rrsagent, make minutes 16:56:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:58:24 s/needs to be an action to take forwared to the WCAG working group/Gregg and Peter will take this forwared to the WCAG working group 16:58:32 rrsagent, make minutes 16:58:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 17:32:47 Judy has joined #wcag2ict 18:14:52 David_ has joined #wcag2ict 18:24:08 s/30 days is the/End of comment period would be: 30 days is the/ 18:24:15 rrsagent, make minutes 18:24:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 19:08:24 korn has left #wcag2ict 19:35:10 greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict 22:14:13 korn has joined #wcag2ict 22:14:15 korn has left #wcag2ict 23:17:00 Judy has joined #wcag2ict