12:59:52 RRSAgent has joined #nfc 12:59:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/24-nfc-irc 13:00:24 zakim, this will be 63294 13:00:24 ok, dsr; I see UW_NFC_WG()9:00AM scheduled to start now 13:02:03 dezell has joined #nfc 13:02:26 meeting: NFC WG Teleconference 13:02:32 chair: Jacques 13:02:35 scribe: Dave 13:02:39 scribenick: dsr 13:03:51 Present+ Dave, Jacques, David, Virginie 13:03:59 virginie has joined #nfc 13:04:15 Agenda: 13:04:15 - Welcome 13:04:15 - Round table for introduction, interest, expectations 13:04:15 - Current draft specification status 13:04:15 - What's needed to move it to First Public Working Draft 13:04:17 - W3C Technical Plenary in November 13:04:19 - Plans for work on use cases and demos 13:04:21 - Other opportunities to draw attention to the work on the NFC API? 13:04:23 - Review Action Requests 13:04:25 - Next conf call timeframe 13:04:35 Present+ Luc 13:04:50 mentions that virginie from gemalto just join, as an obeserver 13:05:28 zakim, who is on the call ? 13:05:28 UW_NFC_WG()9:00AM has not yet started, virginie 13:05:29 On IRC I see virginie, dezell, RRSAgent, Zakim, dsr, jbourhis, lyriarte 13:05:47 Jacques introduces the meeting. This is our first audio meeting. The group has been growing slowly in numbers. 13:06:21 We've already started some technical work and we want to use this meeting to introduce it and plan next steps. 13:06:59 Introductions around the table, starting with Jacques, intel, and NFC WG chair. 13:07:46 Luc: I am also from intel and have been drafting the specification and work on a demo implementation on top on Linux. 13:08:26 Present+ Samuel 13:08:50 Samuel: I am also from intel and helping Luc with the work. 13:09:16 Virginie: I am here as an observer and am from Gemalto's standardization team. 13:09:19 Samuel Ortiz is the maintainer of the Linux NFC stack 13:09:46 Dave: I am from W3C and am the staff contact for this group. 13:11:03 David: I am from NACS and we interact a lot with card issuing companies and involved with EMV rollout. For the people on this call, I do not know of any patent issues relating to this WG. My employer is Verisign. 13:11:25 NACS = national association of convenience stores (USA) 13:11:48 s/Versign/Verifone/ 13:12:42 Topic: Introduction to the specification 13:13:15 Luc gives a quick introduction to the draft NFC API specification, currently an editor's draft. 13:13:54 It enables communication betwen NFC devices and reading/writing of NFC tags, as well as Bluetooth and Wifi handover from NFC. 13:14:17 It is linked from the working group page and from the wiki. 13:15:27 It matches the definitions from the NFC Forum for NFC tags. We invite feedback from the group. We plan to implement real life use cases as a means to test the API design. 13:16:05 Our implementation is based on top of the Linux NFC stack using websockets and also Node.JS. 13:16:45 Jacques: we are not talking about very low level interface, rather for the needs of web apps. 13:17:26 Luc: tag formatting, setting tags read only, and NFC communication. 13:18:15 Samuel: we don't provide direct access to LLCP packets right now as we didn't get the use cases, but it is something we would like to discuss. 13:18:19 link: 13:18:19 http://w3c.github.io/nfc/proposals/common/nfc.html 13:18:33 Present+ Yves 13:18:58 s/Yves/Gilles/ 13:20:15 Gilles: I am working for Deutsche Telekom and working on NFC in respect to our handset requirements. 13:20:35 Also involved to an extent in Mozilla and FirefoxOS. 13:21:35 Dave: we need to be use case driven -- if we see new use cases, we can think about adding features later. 13:21:47 David: I agree with the use case driven approach 13:22:41 Luc: the first features will be high level, and adding lower level features later as new use cases emerge seems fine. 13:23:33 Samuel: what's the process for adding use cases? 13:24:15 Dave: I suggest briefly describing the use cases in the specification, and we can add new ones in subsequent updates to the published working draft. 13:24:37 David: it is useful to know the broad groupings of use cases along with a few concrete examples. 13:25:15 Jacques: that sounds fine. 13:25:41 Virginie: can the editor's briefly summarise these broad areas of use cases? 13:26:16 Samuel: essentially tag reading/writing, peer to peer and handovers, but not payment as that will involve a secure element API. 13:26:40 David: I would like to note that the secure element API would enable a lot of use cases in addition to payment. 13:27:03 Gilles: are we planning also to cover the NFC controller? 13:27:23 Samuel: yes, that is needed and could be added as an extension to the API. 13:28:00 We need some feedback from payment companies and companies like Gemalto to better understand the requirements. 13:28:23 Gilles lists some of the features involved in respect to the NFC controller. 13:28:56 Samuel: we are already covering part of that for powering/enabling/disabling the NFC, but we haven't addressed the card emulation mode at this time. 13:29:45 Gilles: I am just highlighting this as my experience in the payment area, shows the need to keep card emulation distinct from other modes. 13:30:49 Each time you have a transaction with the applet, it can raise an event. Everything is going through the SWP to the NFC controller. 13:31:30 Samuel: it should be part of the secure element API which regardless of the technology will have to report such events. 13:31:41 rrsagent, set logs public 13:33:16 Gilles: when I read the spec/charter it was just a communication path, but there was no mention of the NFC controller. The event is handled by the NFC controller not the secure element. I don't have a clear solution to offer right now. 13:34:15 q+ 13:34:20 Samuel: it would be less confusing for developers if we keep the eventing part of the secure element API. This is something we can continue to discuss 13:35:32 Samuel: we risk making the secure element API redundant if we follow you suggestion. 13:36:01 Gilles: we still need a way to access applets in secure elements 13:36:24 Samuel: but you don't need to know about the underlying implementation (e.g. NFC, or SIM, ...) 13:37:27 David raises the info that W3C is interested in starting standards work on payment APIs. 13:38:34 Dave: We're not yet at that position, we plan to hold a workshop as a first step. 13:38:58 David: want to ensure that we don't cause problems by going to far too soon. 13:39:15 s/to /too / 13:39:21 ack virgine 13:39:28 ack virginie 13:40:31 Virginie: Gemalto is leading the SysApps WG work in secure element API. We could usefully sketch an architecture as way to keep us all on the same page. 13:41:15 The secure element API in sysapps will start within a few months time, and we will need a close coordination with the NFC WG. 13:41:50 Virginie asks Samuel about the limited support for the NFC controller in the current spec, what is the entry point for that? 13:42:15 Luc: currently it is merged with starting/stopping polling of NFC devices. 13:42:33 We could split this into separate APIs if that makes more sense. 13:42:46 http://w3c.github.io/nfc/proposals/common/nfc.html#idl-def-NFCManager 13:42:59 Samuel: we used to have a power property for turning the NFC hardware on or off. 13:43:34 We need to discuss card emulation before we start adding support for that and need your input. 13:44:15 Virginie: I will ask my colleagues to review the draft spec and come back with some feedback. 13:44:29 Luc: I don't have strong feelings one way or the other and welcome feedback. 13:45:31 Gilles: I can provide a use case for the card emulation mode (Contactless service registry). Security requirement to disable card emulation when screen is off. 13:46:22 If you have a lot of services, it is desirable to have a single method to disable them all e.g. when the screen goes dark 13:46:45 Samuel: you are talking about the services provided by applets? 13:47:01 Gilles: yes as well as tag reading and writing. 13:47:15 Samuel: I agree with that. 13:47:42 We also need to limit access to this service switch to trusted apps. 13:48:31 Dave: this relates to the sysapps runtime and security model -- we will need to review that as it proceeds to ensure it meets our needs. 13:49:18 Virginie: if DT or Gemalto bring some use cases, how will the NFC WG handle them? 13:50:15 Jacques: our part of view is to work on the use cases and integrate them into the spec. 13:50:28 +1 to go to FPWD as it is now 13:50:40 Samuel: we should first add the current set of use cases into the spec, and work on card emulation and associated use cases for a later update. 13:51:34 Luc: it sounds like card emulation might be simple and could be added sooner. 13:52:04 Samuel: I would prefer to keep things simple for the FPWD and add richer features later when Gemalto has joined. 13:52:18 Virginie: yes, that makes sense to me at this time. 13:53:03 jacques: we should list the use cases we know now even if the spec doesn't cover them all. 13:53:15 Dave: that's fine, we can state that in the draft. 13:54:00 Virginie: to clarify, there will be a SysApps WG face to face in late August and the secure element API will be on the agenda. We can come back to the NFC WG after that. 13:54:22 Topic: TPAC 2013 13:54:48 Jacques: we should plan to meet at TPAC in November. 13:55:03 Topic: Plans for work on use cases and demos 13:55:24 Luc runs through what he is working on. 13:55:55 He plans to support a demo on Linux and on Android. 13:56:15 Anyone else working on demos? 13:58:01 Dave: MobileAd is in the NCF WG and have said they plan to develop demos. 13:58:18 Jacques: what about the arrangements for TPC 13:59:20 s/TPC/TPAC/ 13:59:25 Dave explains ... 13:59:35 DE apologizes - must leave for another meeting. Nice meeting you all. 14:00:19 Topic: Other opportunities to raise visibility of W3C work on NFC 14:00:50 Dave: events like NFC World Congress - where WG members could talk about the W3C work on NFC. 14:01:15 Virginie mentions other opportunities ... 14:01:36 gemalto will speak of web consuming secure element services in Chip to cloud conference 'Security Forum' 14:02:34 Samuel: it would also be worth trying to gain a better understanding of what reasons they may have for not joining so far 14:03:03 Dave: I talked with Google, and it seems to be mainly a lack of visibility. We should use the FPWD to draw them in. 14:03:15 Samuel: what about the NFC forum? 14:03:26 Dave: yes we need to liaise with them, so let's talk 14:03:34 Topic: Action Requests 14:04:03 Jacques: mainly to work on integrating use cases prior to FPWD, using the mailing list to progress this. 14:04:40 Luc: adding power off/off is a little change. The rest e.g. Card Emulation would be done later. 14:05:29 Invites people to help him with the editing via GitHub. 14:05:48 Regarding use cases, the email list would be a good starting point for discussion. 14:06:35 Topic: Next teleconference call? 14:06:45 +1 for monthly basis 14:06:50 Jacques: may be monthly? 14:06:57 Dave: yes sounds good. 14:07:15 Jacques: I will schedule it in July. 14:07:15 Topic: AOB 14:07:33 Virginie: just one thing, thanks for inviting me as an observer. 14:07:55 Jacques: it has been a productive meeting. Talk to you in one month! 14:08:17 rrsagent, make minutes 14:08:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/24-nfc-minutes.html dsr 15:59:15 Zakim has left #nfc