IRC log of tt on 2013-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:54:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tt

13:54:57 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/20-tt-irc

13:54:59 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:54:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tt

13:55:01 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be TTML

13:55:01 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:55:02 [trackbot]

Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

13:55:02 [trackbot]

Date: 20 June 2013

13:55:16 [Sean]

chair: Sean

13:56:33 [plh]

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13:58:11 [Sean]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jun/0110.html

13:59:17 [Zakim]

SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started

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+ +44.154.558.aaaa

13:59:58 [tmichel]

tmichel has joined #tt

14:00:04 [Sean]

zakim, aaa is me

14:00:04 [Zakim]

sorry, Sean, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'

14:00:14 [Sean]

zakim, aaaa is me

14:00:14 [Zakim]

+Sean; got it

14:02:35 [mike]

mike has joined #tt

14:02:46 [Zakim]

+Plh

14:02:57 [mijordan]

mijordan has joined #tt

14:03:07 [pal]

pal has joined #tt

14:03:34 [Zakim]

+ +1.858.882.aabb

14:03:59 [andreas]

andreas has joined #tt

14:04:08 [Zakim]

+[Adobe]

14:04:25 [plh]

http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications

14:04:50 [Zakim]

+ +49.893.aacc

14:05:24 [mijordan]

Zakim, Adobe is mijordan

14:05:24 [Zakim]

+mijordan; got it

14:05:26 [tmichel]

8894# ('TTWG'#) passcode is not valid says Zakim ...

14:05:27 [Zakim]

+pal

14:05:51 [Sean]

Theirry it is TTML

14:06:04 [mike]

zakim, aabb is mike

14:06:04 [Zakim]

+mike; got it

14:06:16 [tmichel]

Ok then it should be change on the TTWG page https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/Group/

14:06:37 [Sean]

Yes, we are discussing how to upadate the web page

14:06:58 [Sean]

zakim, passcode

14:06:58 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'passcode', Sean

14:07:01 [Zakim]

+??P14

14:07:35 [plh]

TT/Greoup is deprecated

14:07:37 [Sean]

zakim, who is on the phone

14:07:38 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Sean

14:08:06 [Sean]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:08:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sean, Plh, mike, mijordan, +49.893.aacc, pal, ??P14

14:08:13 [tmichel]

zakim, who is here ?

14:08:13 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sean, Plh, mike, mijordan, +49.893.aacc, pal, ??P14

14:08:14 [Zakim]

On IRC I see andreas, pal, mijordan, mike, tmichel, plh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sean, trackbot

14:08:42 [Sean]

zakim, aacc is Andreas

14:08:42 [Zakim]

+Andreas; got it

14:09:27 [Sean]

zakim, choose a victim

14:09:27 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Plh

14:09:40 [plh]

scribe: plh

14:09:47 [plh]

Topic: Update from the AC

14:10:53 [plh]

plh: we had a good discussion but it looked to me that we should stay on track

14:11:25 [plh]

pal: there was a question from timbl asking for a high level view of the workflow for timed text to be shown in a browser

14:11:35 [plh]

... might be good for us to do as well

14:11:42 [plh]

... it's on my TODO list to put something together

14:11:50 [plh]

... starting in Web&TV IG

14:12:06 [plh]

sean: worth coordinating with the IG

14:12:12 [plh]

pal: will depend on the energy

14:12:48 [plh]

... the web is the last link in a very long chain

14:12:59 [plh]

sean: would be good to get everybody position down

14:13:08 [plh]

... depending where you're in the chain, the view is different

14:13:26 [plh]

pal: yes, the complexity of the chain is itneresting indeed

14:13:34 [plh]

sean: ok, we'll look for it

14:13:56 [plh]

Topic: Modification in team contact

14:14:36 [plh]

Sean: welcoming Thierry back in the group

14:15:08 [plh]

plh: I'll stay around but Thierry will be more reliable

14:15:37 [plh]

Topic: New work methods. Work Packages and transition to Bugzilla

14:16:08 [plh]

Sean: thinking to use bugzilla from now on. tracker is good a tracking action and issues, but not good for tracking bugs

14:16:58 [plh]

plh: will break your flow of communication between mailing list and bugzilla

14:17:22 [plh]

sean: work will also continue in the wiki. but don't think we'll have discussion in the database

14:17:32 [plh]

... might become too painful

14:17:51 [plh]

... so would like to keep using the mailing list for discussion on bugs

14:18:02 [plh]

... any objection?

14:18:07 [plh]

[none heard]

14:18:27 [plh]

Resolved: the TT Group will start using bugzilla

14:18:59 [plh]

Sean: in the first of July, we'll make a big push for TTML 1.1

14:19:05 [plh]

s/first/first week/

14:19:35 [plh]

Sean: we'll need to accelerate the activity rate

14:19:53 [plh]

Topic: Issue 252

14:19:58 [plh]

issue-252?

14:19:58 [trackbot]

ISSUE-252 -- Prose defining mutual exclusive uses of <metadata> should use must keyword. -- pending review

14:19:58 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/252

14:20:50 [plh]

sean: my reading was that you can use metadata on the same element, but Glenn read it differently

14:22:04 [plh]

pal: let's give more considerations in 1.1

14:22:15 [plh]

Resolved: issue 252 is delayed until TTML 1.1

14:22:26 [plh]

Topic: Issue 157

14:22:28 [plh]

issue-157?

14:22:28 [trackbot]

ISSUE-157 -- transformation profile -- pending review

14:22:28 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/157

14:22:47 [plh]

sean: didn't make it what a transformation profile does

14:22:58 [plh]

... Glenn made a clarification

14:23:03 [plh]

... any objection to close this issue?

14:23:17 [plh]

Resolved: Issue 157 is closed

14:23:20 [plh]

close issue-157

14:23:27 [plh]

trackbot, close issue-157

14:23:28 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-157 transformation profile.

14:23:28 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-157 transformation profile.

14:23:39 [plh]

Topic: Issue 163

14:23:41 [plh]

issue-163?

14:23:41 [trackbot]

ISSUE-163 -- Clarify use of cell units in certain properties -- pending review

14:23:41 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/163

14:24:11 [plh]

close action-147

14:24:11 [trackbot]

Closed ACTION-147 Create definitions for presentation and transformation in Section 2.2 to handle Issue-157..

14:24:35 [plh]

Sean: again, Glenn did the edits. objection to close this issue?

14:24:42 [plh]

pal: this seems a substantive change

14:25:21 [plh]

Sean: the proposal is to clarify what the use of cell units

14:25:28 [plh]

pal: oh, thought it was different

14:25:32 [plh]

... never mind

14:25:37 [pal]

s/pal/mike/

14:25:41 [plh]

Sean: no, we're not forbidding it

14:25:45 [pal]

s/pal/?

14:25:55 [plh]

[no objection to close issue]

14:26:02 [plh]

trackbot, close issue-163

14:26:02 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-163 Clarify use of cell units in certain properties.

14:26:11 [plh]

close action-84

14:26:11 [trackbot]

Closed ACTION-84 Create clarifying text for 2nd edition for cell units.

14:26:18 [plh]

Topic: Issue 163

14:26:21 [plh]

issue-163?

14:26:21 [trackbot]

ISSUE-163 -- Clarify use of cell units in certain properties -- closed

14:26:21 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/163

14:26:28 [plh]

oops

14:26:32 [tmichel]

I must leave for about 15 minutes, and I will be back.

14:26:56 [plh]

pal: would be nice to put a link to the document

14:27:17 [plh]

sean: agreed

14:27:27 [Zakim]

-Plh

14:27:36 [Zakim]

+Plh

14:29:10 [plh]

sean: we need the link from the issue and from the mercurial comment

14:29:30 [plh]

Topic: Issue 166

14:29:34 [plh]

issue-166?

14:29:34 [trackbot]

ISSUE-166 -- authoritative schemaLocation for authoritative schemas like TTML -- pending review

14:29:34 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/166

14:29:39 [plh]

Sean: again, any objection?

14:30:01 [plh]

mike: that's fine

14:30:52 [plh]

trackbot, close issue-166

14:30:53 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-166 authoritative schemaLocation for authoritative schemas like TTML.

14:31:19 [plh]

Topic: Issue 171

14:31:21 [plh]

issue-171?

14:31:21 [trackbot]

ISSUE-171 -- need to clarify meaning of "prune" in 9.3.2 -- pending review

14:31:21 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/171

14:33:55 [plh]

close issue-171

14:33:55 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-171 need to clarify meaning of "prune" in 9.3.2.

14:34:06 [plh]

Topic: Issue 172

14:34:08 [plh]

issue-172?

14:34:08 [trackbot]

ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- pending review

14:34:08 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172

14:35:09 [plh]

trackbot, issue-172

14:35:09 [trackbot]

ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- pending review

14:35:09 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172

14:35:15 [plh]

trackbot, close issue-172

14:35:15 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-172 REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose.

14:35:25 [plh]

Topic: Issue 173

14:35:29 [plh]

issue-173?

14:35:29 [trackbot]

ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- pending review

14:35:29 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173

14:36:03 [plh]

Sean: it tuns out XSL-FO does tell you what to do

14:36:25 [plh]

... so there is a clear mapping

14:36:50 [plh]

mike: doesn't seem intuitive..

14:37:28 [plh]

... what's the bahvior for cariage return and line feeds in the content?

14:37:37 [plh]

sean: yes, trimming, etc is addressed

14:38:03 [plh]

mike: do we point to the proper section in XSL FO since it wasn't obvious?

14:38:09 [plh]

... would help to have it in the doc

14:38:36 [plh]

sean: happy to leave it is open

14:39:22 [plh]

... since we need a clarifying note in the doc

14:39:36 [plh]

Topic: Issue 180

14:39:42 [plh]

issue-180?

14:39:42 [trackbot]

ISSUE-180 -- regions relative to the root container -- pending review

14:39:42 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/180

14:40:06 [plh]

Sean: fixed by new text in 8.2.7: where, if either width or height is negative or zero, then extent must be considered zero in both inline and block progression dimensions

14:40:44 [plh]

issue-180: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#style-attribute-extent

14:40:44 [trackbot]

Notes added to ISSUE-180 regions relative to the root container.

14:41:07 [plh]

mike: what about the language quoted in the issue?

14:41:19 [plh]

... it's ambiguous

14:41:39 [plh]

sean: I opened a different issue for that

14:41:55 [plh]

... we would be changing the meaning for auto

14:42:32 [plh]

... I asked Glenn to be more explicit in the mapping

14:42:57 [plh]

mike: the text has carfted today doesn't clarify this issue

14:43:05 [plh]

... and when should we fix it?

14:44:18 [plh]

... let's leave the issue for now until we clarify this

14:44:41 [plh]

Topic: Issue 184

14:44:45 [plh]

issue-184?

14:44:45 [trackbot]

ISSUE-184 -- set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set -- pending review

14:44:45 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/184

14:45:05 [plh]

Sean: wasn't clear when the set animation happens

14:45:14 [plh]

... fixed by new [animation styling] step 5 in 8.4.4.2 specified style set processing

14:45:36 [plh]

issue-184: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#semantics-style-resolution-processing-sss

14:45:36 [trackbot]

Notes added to ISSUE-184 set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set.

14:45:53 [plh]

close issue-184

14:45:53 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-184 set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set.

14:46:06 [plh]

Topic: Issue 189

14:46:12 [plh]

issue-189?

14:46:12 [trackbot]

ISSUE-189 -- do regions scroll their flowed content? -- pending review

14:46:12 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/189

14:46:30 [plh]

sean: removed: there is no longer an "overflow: scroll"; see also note at end of 9.3.2

14:46:47 [plh]

issue-189: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#semantics-region-layout-step-1

14:46:47 [trackbot]

Notes added to ISSUE-189 do regions scroll their flowed content?.

14:46:57 [plh]

[[

14:46:58 [plh]

Where an implementation is able to detect significant similarity between two adjacent synchronic Document Instances, DOCinterN DOCinterN−1, then it is preferred that the implementation make the transition between presenting the two instances as smooth as possible, e.g., as described by [CEA-608-C], § C.3.

14:46:59 [plh]

]]

14:47:46 [plh]

q+

14:48:51 [plh]

plh: does it make 608 a normative ref?

14:49:02 [plh]

sean: ope

14:49:09 [plh]

s/op/nope/

14:49:21 [plh]

close issue-189

14:49:21 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-189 do regions scroll their flowed content?.

14:49:32 [plh]

Topic: Issue 197

14:49:36 [plh]

issue-197?

14:49:36 [trackbot]

ISSUE-197 -- charset/encoding unconstrained -- pending review

14:49:36 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/197

14:50:10 [plh]

issue-197: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#concrete-encoding

14:50:10 [trackbot]

Notes added to ISSUE-197 charset/encoding unconstrained.

14:50:17 [plh]

[[

14:50:18 [plh]

In the absence of other requirements, it is recommended that a Document Instance be concretely encoded as a well-formed XML 1.0 [XML 1.0] document using the UTF-8 character encoding.

14:50:19 [plh]

]]

14:50:40 [plh]

sean: anything else would be a breaking change

14:50:48 [plh]

... we'll come back on this in TTML 1.1

14:51:01 [plh]

close issue-197

14:51:01 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-197 charset/encoding unconstrained.

14:51:45 [plh]

mike: ok with a should

14:52:09 [plh]

mike: should we leave the issue open or close for 1.1?

14:52:09 [tmichel]

I am back ...

14:52:18 [plh]

sean: rather have a new issue 1.1

14:52:28 [plh]

mike: ok, Id like to consider a stronger language in 1.1

14:53:00 [plh]

sean: sure

14:53:11 [plh]

... please open a new issue for 1.1

14:53:19 [plh]

mike: ok

14:53:54 [plh]

Resolved: we need a stronger resolution in exchange formats in 1.1

14:54:08 [plh]

ACTION: Mike to open issue for 1.1 regarding encodings

14:54:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-166 - Open issue for 1.1 regarding encodings [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-06-27].

14:54:24 [plh]

Topic: Issue 199

14:54:28 [plh]

issue-199?

14:54:28 [trackbot]

ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases -- pending review

14:54:28 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199

14:54:46 [plh]

issue-199: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#time-expression-semantics

14:54:46 [trackbot]

Notes added to ISSUE-199 timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases.

14:55:09 [plh]

sean: addr4essed by appendix N

14:55:20 [plh]

mike: didn't look at it lately and was happy with it

14:55:29 [plh]

sean: I'm pretty sure he didn't change it lately

14:55:40 [plh]

close issue-199

14:55:40 [trackbot]

Closed ISSUE-199 timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases.

14:55:53 [plh]

Topic: AOB

14:56:10 [pal_]

pal_ has joined #tt

14:57:06 [plh]

Sean: glenn suggested to do a new snapshot for the 2nd edition

14:57:16 [plh]

,, including resoltuion for 210 and 217

14:57:55 [plh]

s/,,/../

14:58:07 [plh]

... any objection?

14:58:14 [plh]

[none heard]

15:00:40 [plh]

[adjourned]

15:00:46 [Zakim]

-pal

15:00:46 [Zakim]

-Andreas

15:00:47 [Zakim]

-Plh

15:00:48 [Zakim]

-mike

15:00:48 [Zakim]

-mijordan

15:01:02 [Zakim]

-??P14

15:01:02 [Zakim]

-Sean

15:01:03 [Zakim]

SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended

15:01:03 [Zakim]

Attendees were +44.154.558.aaaa, Sean, Plh, +1.858.882.aabb, +49.893.aacc, mijordan, pal, mike, Andreas

15:01:06 [plh]

rrsagent, generate minutes

15:01:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/20-tt-minutes.html plh

17:01:09 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tt