09:57:55 RRSAgent has joined #mbui 09:57:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/14-mbui-irc 09:58:10 meeting: MBUI teleconference 09:58:18 chair: Fabio 09:59:50 UW_MBUI()6:00AM has now started 09:59:58 + +33.4.76.51.aaaa 10:00:08 +Dsr 10:00:26 it seemsim the only one on the phone line 10:00:26 Present +Dave 10:00:47 +[IPcaller] 10:00:51 +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas 10:01:06 Present +Paolo 10:01:16 Present +Jaroslav 10:01:34 Present: Dave, Joelle, Paolo, Jaroslav 10:02:33 + +39.050.621.aabb 10:02:51 Jaroslav asks Joelle for an update 10:03:06 Joelle: platform and device for the glossary 10:03:08 Present+ Fabio 10:03:23 Joelle notes that ISTI were due to provide some definitions 10:04:27 Fabio: no many people have registered for the F2F -- currently only 6, is Jaroslav coming? 10:04:29 +??P4 10:04:56 Jaroslav: I hope too, but am currently trying to get the funding for the trip 10:05:06 Present+ Davide 10:05:07 scribenick: dsr 10:05:26 +??P5 10:05:35 Davide won't be going to the Munich F2F, but would like to participate via skype if that is possible. 10:05:49 Fabio: please ask Heiko 10:05:59 + +30231125aacc 10:06:06 Present+ Cristina 10:06:13 Nick_Kaklanis has joined #mbui 10:06:27 Cristina: we won't be present in person, but hope to join via skype 10:06:48 Present+ Nicos 10:07:08 Present+ Nick_Kaklanis 10:07:20 Nicos plans to attend. Fabio asks him to add his name to the table on the wiki, see http://www.w3.org/wiki/MBUI_WG_Face_to_Face,_Munich,_2013 10:07:32 Topic: Glossary Document 10:07:53 UCL has joined #mbui 10:08:06 Fabio summarises where we are and notes that ISTI have done their home work. 10:08:45 UCL will be there in few seconds. Hello. 10:09:07 +[IPcaller.a] 10:09:14 He notes that ISTI prefer the term Abstract Task and have defined that. We've also added Composite Abstract Task. 10:09:21 -[IPcaller] 10:09:24 davide_ has joined #mbui 10:09:33 Present+ davide 10:09:44 +??P1 10:09:44 We checked the definition of task and cleaned that up. Likewise for the term Category. 10:10:15 Joelle: I've looked at your definitions and think they are good! 10:10:15 We are on the air now 10:10:47 Paolo: I am not completely happy, but ... 10:11:06 Present+ UCL 10:11:18 Fabio asks if anyone from UCL is attending the Munich F2F. 10:11:41 Vivian: I will attend in person. 10:12:37 Joelle: the next difficult terms are Device and Platform. The meaning is very much dependent on the context. 10:14:27 There are plenty of attributes, e.g. screen size. A device is essentially something with a computer for our purposes. 10:15:11 Jaroslav: the term device is understood even if it is vague. 10:15:54 Joelle: right now a device is defined as a component of a platform. A platform is defined as a composition of hardware and software resources. 10:16:56 Platform is also an overloaded term with a meaning that varies. 10:17:27 Jaroslav: it may be better to focus on how a device is used rather than defining what it is. 10:17:33 Present: Jean 10:17:53 s/Present:/Present+/ 10:18:31 Jean: a device is a hardware resource and as such is a component of a platform 10:19:06 It is interesting to refer to the Internet of Things where a device is a piece of hardware. 10:19:29 Paolo: we should be consistent with how device is used at W3C 10:20:55 http://www.w3.org/TR/di-gloss/ 10:22:41 Joelle notes that a phone has many sensors. You don't interact with a sensor. A screen is an output device that you interact with by viewing the screen. 10:23:16 Jaroslav: a user needs to perceive a device in order to interact with it. A sensor is not perceivable and therefore is not a device 10:23:56 Joelle: if you don't like the current definition, please make a proposal 10:24:46 Paolo: I made a proposal 2 weeks ago (see the comments) 10:25:46 Paolo: An apparatus through which a user can perceive and interact with an interactive system. 10:26:40 Jaroslav: projected keyboards show that a device can be virtual 10:27:10 We used to have the term peripheral, but it has gone. 10:27:48 Joelle: no, it is still there 10:28:06 we need a notion of an input and output device 10:29:30 Joelle: I see that the definition of modality has completely changed, okay. 10:30:30 Agree with removing entries for input and output device. 10:32:31 Jean: the use of "physical" is misleading for the definition of peripheral, e.g. consider a projected keyboard 10:32:48 Paolo: okay, we can remove the word "physical" 10:33:35 Present+ Carmen 10:35:19 Fabio: we need to consider the level of abstraction, e.g. the iPhone 5 is a particular device, whereas a smart phone is a class of devices. 10:35:36 s/particular/particular kind of/ 10:36:54 Joelle: there are two kinds of platforms, ones which cannot be composed and others which can 10:37:38 Jean: a multi device platform is a widely used term, and hence we should include that 10:38:57 Joelle: I think we need to work on this offline and come back for discussion. 10:41:08 Paolo cites the wikipedia definition 10:42:18 Joelle: a platform is a thing rather than a model of a thing 10:43:47 Paolo: but a platform is a model, that is the point... 10:45:11 Fabio asks Paolo for a proposal in time for next week's call. [he says okay] 10:45:54 Fabio: can we remove some of the terms, it is currently huge 10:45:58 Paolo: I agree 10:47:12 Joelle: browsability should be crossed (i.e. we should retain it) 10:50:40 Jaroslav argues for adding explorability 10:51:14 Joelle: don't think we really need it 10:51:38 Fabio: the point is to reduce the number of terms to a core set 10:54:17 Some discussion about "observability". Jaroslav suggests a simpler definition would be clearer to the target audience 10:59:48 rrsagent, set logs public 11:00:11 we run out of time for discussions ... 11:00:30 -??P5 11:00:31 - +33.4.76.51.aaaa 11:00:31 -[IPcaller.a] 11:00:33 - +30231125aacc 11:00:33 -Klaus/Johannes/Thomas 11:00:35 Fabio: we have some more work to do, and can deal with subtle issues when we are face to face. 11:00:36 -??P4 11:00:37 - +39.050.621.aabb 11:00:39 -Dsr 11:00:43 Until next week's call! 11:00:53 rrsagent, make minutes 11:00:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/14-mbui-minutes.html dsr 11:05:39 disconnecting the lone participant, ??P1, in UW_MBUI()6:00AM 11:05:41 UW_MBUI()6:00AM has ended 11:05:41 Attendees were +33.4.76.51.aaaa, Dsr, [IPcaller], Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, +39.050.621.aabb, +30231125aacc 11:40:53 UCL has left #mbui 12:54:09 Zakim has left #mbui