IRC log of wai-wcag on 2013-06-11

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14:56:53 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:53 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/11-wai-wcag-irc
14:56:55 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:56:55 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:57 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:56:57 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
14:56:58 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:56:58 [trackbot]: Date: 11 June 2013
14:59:15 [Zakim]: +Kathy
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15:00:22 [greggvanderheiden]: greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:23 [korn]: korn has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:10 [Zakim]: +Peter_Korn
15:02:26 [Zakim]: +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:02:52 [AWK]: Zakim, call me at 571-765-5503
15:02:52 [Zakim]: I am sorry, AWK; I do not permit dialing by number
15:03:16 [Zakim]: +Peter_Korn.a
15:03:17 [Zakim]: -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:03:21 [Zakim]: -Peter_Korn
15:03:31 [greggvanderheiden]: I can call you Andrew and patch you in
15:03:34 [Zakim]: +Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:03:37 [greggvanderheiden]: what number should I call?
15:03:56 [Zakim]: +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:04:00 [greggvanderheiden]: OK great
15:04:20 [korn]: Zakim, who is here?
15:04:21 [Zakim]: On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Kathy, Peter_Korn.a, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:04:21 [Zakim]: On IRC I see korn, greggvanderheiden, AWK, Zakim, RRSAgent, David, Kathy, MichaelC, trackbot
15:06:04 [Zakim]: +??P27
15:06:39 [MichaelC]: regrets: Bruce_Bailey, Joshue_O_Connor
15:07:28 [marcjohlic]: marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:51 [Zakim]: +Marc_Johlic
15:08:00 [Kathy]: scribe: Kathy
15:08:05 [AWK]: Scribe Kathy
15:08:33 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Penultimate/
15:10:09 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Items from WCAG2ICT May 17, 2013
15:14:21 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Definition of accessibility services of platform software, Programmatically Determined, Short Name added to title, Programmatically Set - TAKE2 accepted as proposed
15:14:42 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Principle 4: ROBUST -- TAKE 2
15:15:29 [Kathy]: Greg: The concern about "robust" and "correct" has to do with WCAG not ICT
15:15:54 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: accepted as proposed
15:16:13 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Guidelines 4.1 - Take 2
15:16:49 [Kathy]: Andrew: The concern is not language that we can change.
15:17:01 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
15:17:13 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Change of Context
15:17:48 [Kathy]: Peter: I am working on a change to the text that Loretta noted.
15:18:04 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Leave open
15:18:14 [Kathy]: TOPIC: SC 3.2.1 On Focus
15:19:01 [Kathy]: Andrew: The points were to make it consistent. Loretta as editorial comment. I agree it sounds editorial.
15:21:21 [Kathy]: Michael: The last sentence is hard to parse. Suggested new wording
15:23:46 [korn]: If the user uses a mechanism other than putting focus on that portion of the compound document with which they mean to interact (e.g. by a menu choice or special keyboard gesture), the resulting <glossary link>change of context</glossary link> wouldn't be subject to this success criterion because it was not caused by a change of focus.
15:25:02 [korn]: Final sentence: If the user uses a mechanism other than putting focus on that portion of the compound document with which they mean to interact (e.g. by a menu choice or special keyboard gesture), any resulting <glossary link>change of context</glossary link> wouldn't be subject to this success criterion because it was not caused by a change of focus.
15:27:46 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended. Final sentence: If the user uses a mechanism other than putting focus on that portion of the compound document with which they mean to interact (e.g. by a menu choice or special keyboard gesture), any resulting <glossary link>change of context</glossary link> wouldn't be subject to this success criterion because it was not caused by a change of focus.
15:29:04 [korn]: q+
15:29:05 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Draft Charter
15:29:40 [David]: q+
15:29:43 [korn]: q-
15:31:46 [AWK]: ack korn
15:31:48 [AWK]: ack David
15:31:55 [greggvanderheiden]: q+
15:33:07 [Kathy]: David - hoping that we will look at documents and that would be included in the charter
15:33:18 [AWK]: ack greggvanderheiden
15:34:07 [AWK]: q+
15:34:52 [AWK]: ack AWK
15:34:59 [Kathy]: Gregg - we need to keep focus on everything that is on the web. If it is not run on the web then we would want to stay clear of it.
15:35:33 [Kathy]: Andrew - non-web documents and non-web software would be excluded
15:36:21 [Kathy]: Gregg - what about saying documents that are not used on the web
15:36:46 [greggvanderheiden]: s/documents/documents and software/
15:36:50 [Kathy]: Andrew - we use the phrase "non-web" it would be good to stay with that
15:38:41 [Kathy]: Gregg - we would need to define non-web technologies
15:39:35 [Kathy]: Gregg - we do not have a defintion of web technologies
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15:41:38 [Kathy]: Gregg - we have a defintion of web content
15:42:14 [Zakim]: +James_Nurthen
15:43:03 [Kathy]: Andrew - we do not have definition of non-web documents and non-web software either
15:44:13 [Kathy]: David - it is ok to choose what ever language provided that documents are included
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15:45:58 [Kathy]: Andrew - there is no difference if we say non-web technologies vs non-web documents and non-web software.
15:47:03 [Kathy]: Andrew - do we need to say both non-web documents and non-web software?
15:47:19 [Kathy]: Peter - Documents, including those created by office suites, are "web documents" when they are found on websites.
15:47:37 [Kathy]: Gregg - they need to be viewable using user agent
15:48:24 [Kathy]: Peter - we should include non-web
15:48:43 [Kathy]: Andrew - This is the langauge we are proposing: The WCAG WG will not publish techniques for non-web documents and non-web software
15:49:17 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
15:50:13 [greggvanderheiden]: q+
15:51:25 [Kathy]: Andrew - In the charter we have "Participate in work on documentation of accessibility support, and co-develop and provide jointly with the Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group an accessibility support database to store crowd-sourced accessibility support information although the WCAG WG will not maintain or vet the data itself;". Do we need to leave this one open?
15:54:06 [Kathy]: Gregg - Trace built the first one, it is a lot of work. It is easy to set up. The rows are the techniques and the columns are the user agents (e.g. JAWS 14.1 with this browser and this operating system). It takes a lot of time to do the testing. You have to confirm that the tester knows what they are doing. That is why it becomes large
15:54:43 [AWK]: q+
15:54:43 [korn]: q+
15:54:58 [AWK]: ack greggvanderheiden
15:54:59 [David]: q+
15:55:49 [Kathy]: Gregg - the EU funding is max 4 years. This is something that has already started. The database for crowd sourcing is interesting. It is a lot of work. Need a way for people to submit information. We don't want the WCAG working group to own the database because then we need to monitor it.
15:56:21 [AWK]: ack AWK
15:56:28 [Kathy]: Andrew - the logistics of it is the concern
15:57:19 [MichaelC]: q+ to talk about funding timelines, crowd sourcing, communication
15:57:23 [Kathy]: Andrew - this could take a lot of time. It makes sense for the working group to have input into
15:57:29 [AWK]: ack korn
15:58:04 [AWK]: ack David
15:58:09 [Kathy]: Peter: we should not commit to doing that
15:58:36 [Kathy]: David: Gregg did a great job setting up the first one. No one picked it up 6 years later.
15:58:36 [AWK]: ack MichaelC
15:58:36 [Zakim]: MichaelC, you wanted to talk about funding timelines, crowd sourcing, communication
16:01:25 [Kathy]: Michael - organizations look to the W3C for information on techniques and accessibility support. They are looking to W3C to set up the database and then have it crowd source with note that we are not guaranteeing the information. The funding timeline is to have this built by the time the funding is over. We are not expected to do anything with the data - it is to be crowd source. There is possibility for more funding.
16:02:37 [korn]: q+
16:02:44 [Kathy]: Michael - We should not spend a lot of time working on this and it is important to have it as a deliverable. It is better for this to be part of W3C
16:03:45 [greggvanderheiden]: q+
16:05:34 [Kathy]: Peter: If the W3C host it and it is crowd sourced, and funding runs out. How does this crowd sourced data get reviewed and vetted?
16:05:57 [Kathy]: Michael - this should be brought up to Shadi.
16:06:29 [Kathy]: Andrew - we need to leave this open and talk to Shadi.
16:08:32 [Kathy]: Gregg - suggestion, this is about testing. We should coordinate with the testing group. The testing group (evaluation and repair) would own it. We are not responsible for testing. We determine the rows in the database.
16:09:30 [Kathy]: Andrew - Shadi feels that WCAG working group should own it. We should leave this open and talk about it again.
16:10:37 [Kathy]: Andrew - what if we make it a deliverable but not a core deliverable. This would be set as a joint deliverable or not a deliverable of the working group. If we can't get that then we would go back to the group.
16:12:12 [Zakim]: +Peter_Korn.aa
16:13:30 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Modify 2.1 to make it a joint deliverable with ERT. If we get that then the charter is approved.
16:14:36 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:15:43 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: Accept the June 11 version of the charter
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16:16:35 [MichaelC]: FTR this is revision 1.14 of the above URL
16:17:06 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:17:12 [AWK]: \https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2013_Q3-availability/
16:17:22 [Kathy]: Andrew: fill out the survey about the times; https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2013_Q3-availability/
16:17:59 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Penultimate/
16:18:29 [Zakim]: -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
16:18:52 [Kathy]: TOPIC: Change of Context
16:20:05 [MichaelC]: Change ¨Note: a change in the user agent might include bringing up a new window to handle new or some portion of the document, or might be a significant change in the menus and/or toolbars that are displayed and available for interacting with some portion of the document.¨ to ¨Note: a change in the user agent might include bringing up a new window, or might be a significant change in the menus and/or toolbars that are displayed and available for interact
16:20:05 [MichaelC]: ing with some portion of the document.¨
16:20:39 [Kathy]: Peter: change the language. Peter will put it into the Google site
16:21:04 [Kathy]: RESOLUTION: accepted as amended
16:29:17 [Zakim]: -Peter_Korn.aa
16:29:18 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
16:29:20 [Zakim]: -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:29:21 [Zakim]: -Kathy
16:29:21 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:29:22 [Zakim]: -James_Nurthen
16:29:24 [Zakim]: -Marc_Johlic
16:31:44 [MichaelC]: zakim, drop Peter
16:31:44 [Zakim]: Peter_Korn.a is being disconnected
16:31:45 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:31:45 [Zakim]: Attendees were David_MacDonald, Kathy, Peter_Korn, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen
16:31:51 [MichaelC]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:51 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/11-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
16:32:02 [MichaelC]: zakim, bye
16:32:02 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #wai-wcag
17:11:14 [korn]: korn has left #wai-wcag
21:19:33 [MichaelC]: rrsagent, bye
21:19:33 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items