13:56:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:56:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/24-wcag2ict-irc
13:56:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:56:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:56:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:15 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:56:15 <trackbot> Date: 24 May 2013
13:56:16 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:56:21 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
13:56:23 <andisnow_> zakim, this will be WCAG2ICT
13:56:23 <Zakim> ok, andisnow_, I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM already started
13:56:55 <Zakim> + +1.512.423.aaaa
13:57:05 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
13:57:12 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
13:57:14 <andisnow_> zakim, aaaa is Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:57:14 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
13:58:02 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:44 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:50 <andisnow> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:58:57 <andisnow> regrets: Kiran_Kaja
13:59:27 <Zakim> +??P12
13:59:46 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
13:59:55 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
13:59:59 <Mike_P> zakim, ??P12 is me
13:59:59 <Zakim> +Mike_P; got it
14:00:14 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:00:15 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:44 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:01:27 <Alex_> Alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:39 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:01:59 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
14:01:59 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
14:02:00 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:02:04 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:19 <MaryJo> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:02:28 <MaryJo> scribenick:MaryJo
14:02:30 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:02:30 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
14:02:42 <Zakim> +??P17
14:02:46 <David> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
14:02:54 <Loic> Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:02:54 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
14:03:52 <David> 	https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
14:04:21 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:40 <Zakim> +??P18
14:04:58 <janina> zakim, ??P18 is Janina_Sajka
14:04:58 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:05:24 <BBailey> q+
14:05:45 <BBailey> ack bruce
14:09:12 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:09:12 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
14:11:00 <MaryJo> Topic: Structuring of our document to include collapsible parts
14:11:19 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:11:35 <andisnow_> andisnow_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:11:44 <greggvanderheiden> can you repost the link to the collapsable doc?
14:11:45 <MaryJo> The link that David provided above was discussed.  This document has expandable sections.
14:12:00 <MaryJo> Editors will have to look at this to make sure it is an acceptable solution.
14:12:05 <David> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
14:12:33 <Mike_P> agenda+ Glossary Terms - Part 5, items 3 (programmatically determined) and 4 (programmatically set) [2]
14:12:56 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:12:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Glossary Terms - Part 5, items 3 (programmatically determined) and 4 (programmatically set)" taken up [from 2]
14:13:07 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results
14:14:31 <Loic> q+
14:15:42 <andisnow__> andisnow__ has joined #wcag2ict
14:16:43 <Loic> q-
14:19:56 <MaryJo> In other definitions, we had proposed replacing 'user agents' with 'accessibility features and services of software'. It was suggested that we do the same in the definition of 'programmatically determined'.
14:20:00 <andisnow> +1 to Peter's suggestion
14:21:02 <MaryJo> This links strongly to our other survey and we need to remain consistent in the word replacement.
14:21:28 <Mike_P> agenda+ Final 5 Glossary Terms [3]
14:21:29 <korn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results
14:22:01 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:22:01 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Final 5 Glossary Terms" taken up [from 3]
14:22:38 <andisnow> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results
14:23:07 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept 'blinking' as proposed.
14:24:16 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:24:28 <korn> q+
14:24:36 <MaryJo> Discussion on 'process': https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results#xq2
14:25:02 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:25:51 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:25:51 <andisnow> q+
14:25:57 <MaryJo> The proposed example was problematic for several people, because it is focused on the development environment and we are not getting into ATAG.
14:25:58 <andisnow> ack korn
14:27:14 <MaryJo> This term is used in the SC on multiple ways which applies to a set of software.
14:27:14 <andisnow> +1 to Gregg's comment
14:28:21 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:28:25 <Alex_> q+
14:28:37 <Loic> +1 to that. We need an example about sets of software
14:29:34 <MaryJo> The example is not really about authoring, but using a set of software to complete a process.
14:30:26 <Loic> q+
14:30:29 <andisnow> ack andi
14:30:40 <MaryJo> Batch software is a set of software used to complete a process, but there is no UI involved in that.
14:30:50 <andisnow> ack alex
14:30:55 <Mike_P> q+
14:31:04 <greggvanderheiden> two programs where the first is an authentication program that must precede the second program
14:31:20 <korn> Example: Printing a document converted into a different format involves  several programs, and the final program that generates the converted  output can only be accessed at the end of the process.
14:32:48 <greggvanderheiden> Printing a document converted into a different format involves  several utility programs that must be separate for licensing reasons, and the final program that generates the converted  output can only be accessed at the end of the process.
14:33:36 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:34:06 <David> q+
14:35:41 <andisnow> ack loic
14:36:32 <andisnow> "sets of software" are "extremely rare" - therefore, processes that involve multiple programs with in a set of software are extremely, extremely rare
14:36:55 <greggvanderheiden> Example:  There is a digital certification utility that is a separate program but it neither makes sense to use by itself (what are your certifying) nor can it be part of a software product.  There it is bundled as part of many sets but only accessible as part of process involving the other software and the utility
14:38:17 <korn> q+
14:38:30 <korn> set of software programs: (as used in WCAG2ICT)
14:38:30 <korn> group of software programs that are distributed together and that can be launched and be used independently from each other, but that are interlinked each with every other one such that users can navigate from one program to another via a consistent method that appears in each member of the set
14:39:59 <Mike_P> q-
14:40:07 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:40:11 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:41:45 <korn> q-
14:42:23 <korn> q+
14:42:31 <korn> ack David
14:42:34 <korn> ack gregg
14:45:19 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:45:45 <korn> q-
14:45:57 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:46:58 <korn> q+
14:47:26 <korn> set of documents (non-web) (as used in WCAG2ICT)group of documents that are published together, and where the items all refer to each other by name or link.Note 1:   Republishing or bundling previously published documents as a collection does not constitute a set of documents.Note 2:  If a set is broken apart, the individual parts are no longer part of a set, and would be evaluated as any other individual document is evaluated.
14:47:27 <greggvanderheiden> NOTE:  By the definition of "set of software" used in [WCAG2ICT]  a group of software that is comprises a process would already be excluded from the definition of "set of software
14:48:04 <greggvanderheiden>  so the exception is not needed
14:48:18 <MaryJo> s/software that is comprises/software that comprises/
14:49:42 <Loic> q?
14:49:50 <korn> Note 5: The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process".
14:50:31 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
14:50:39 <Alex_> it can be a step, just not a linear one that cannot be reach in other ways
14:50:49 <andisnow> +1 to Alex
14:51:02 <MaryJo> s/cannot be reach/cannot be reached/
14:51:08 <korn>  The purpose of the exception - that items in a process are exempt from meeting Multiple Ways - is achieved by the defintion of set.
14:51:27 <korn> Note 5: The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process".  The purpose of the exception - that items in a process are exempt from meeting this success criterion- is achieved by the definition of set.
14:52:01 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:52:16 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:52:16 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:52:17 <Alex_> q+
14:52:25 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
14:52:25 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
14:52:30 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:52:30 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
14:53:24 <korn> process
14:53:24 <korn> This term is only used in success criterion 2.4.5 Multiple Ways.  The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process". 
14:54:44 <korn> process
14:54:44 <korn> This term is only used in success criterion 2.4.5 Multiple Ways.  The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process".  The purpose of the the term's use in 2.4.5 Multiple Ways - that items in a process are exempt from meeting that success criterion- is achieved by the definition of set.
14:56:36 <andisnow> "so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process that can't be reached any other way"."
14:56:52 <David> q+
14:57:36 <korn> ... so nothing in the set can be a "step in a process" as defined by WCAG 2.0...
14:57:47 <Alex_> q-
14:58:28 <korn> q-
14:59:21 <korn> Note 5: The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" in WCAG2ICT require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in such a set can be a "step in a process" that can't be reached any other way.  The purpose of the exception - that items in a process are exempt from meeting this success criterion- is achieved by the definition of set.
14:59:45 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:00:02 <andisnow> ack david
15:02:30 <MaryJo> Note 5 is a proposed addition to the Multiple Ways SC
15:02:34 <korn> Note 5: The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" in WCAG2ICT require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in such a set can be a "step in a process" that can't be reached any other way.  The purpose of the exception - that items in a process are exempt from meeting this success criterion- is achieved by the definition of set.
15:02:40 <korn> process
15:02:40 <korn> This term is only used in success criterion 2.4.5 Multiple Ways.  The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" in WCAG2ICT require every item in the set to be independently reachable, and so nothing in such a set can be a "step in a process" that can't be reached any other way.  The purpose of the the term's use in 2.4.5 Multiple Ways - that items in a process are exempt from meeting that success criterion- is achieved by the definition[CUT]
15:04:37 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept Note 5 for SC 2.4.5 Multiple Ways and the text for the definition of 'process' as updated in the meeting.
15:05:31 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:05:41 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:06:02 <Loic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results#xq3
15:06:05 <MaryJo> Supplemental content: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results#xq3
15:07:12 <MaryJo> There is a new section being added to the document listing terms we will not be working on.
15:07:37 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept adding 'supplemental content' to the list of terms we are not defining in our document.
15:08:02 <MaryJo> technology (Web content) : https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results#xq4
15:08:15 <korn> q+
15:08:20 <MaryJo> This term only appears in 'accessibility supported'.
15:08:51 <greggvanderheiden> q-
15:09:36 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:09:41 <greggvanderheiden> ack k
15:09:49 <andisnow> q+
15:10:22 <korn> q-
15:10:57 <korn> "technology (as used for creation of content)" could perhaps work
15:11:09 <MaryJo> The word 'technology' occurs in many places in WCAG 2.0, but is not linked into the glossary. In those places, this term definition doesn't really work well.
15:11:13 <MaryJo> In the few places where 'Web content technology' is used and linked then the proposed definition makes sense.
15:11:38 <korn> Guidance on applying this definition to non-web documents and softwareThis definition applies as written, replacing "browsers and other user agents" with "user agents or other software",  replacing "user agents" with "user agents or other software", replacing "Web content technology" with "technology", replacing "widely-distributed plug-in" with "widely-distributed plug-in or other software extension", and replacing all five of the Notes with a single[CUT]
15:11:38 <korn> "NOTE:The concepts behind the five Notes and in Understanding Accessibility Supported are applicable to Web technologies. The same or similar factors are applicable for non-Web technologies"With these substitutions and addition, it would read: ...
15:13:05 <MaryJo> The substitution 'non-web documents or software' should also be in the parenthetical of the term 'technology', and then analyze if it works everywhere or not.
15:13:49 <Mike_P> q+
15:15:16 <andisnow> q-
15:15:38 <MaryJo> You wouldn't replace every instance of 'technology' with this definition.
15:18:37 <korn> See https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft (which assumes we gain RESOLUTION on it)
15:19:22 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept the proposal for 'technology (Web content)' as written.
15:22:19 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:23:12 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/accessibility-supported-glossary
15:24:28 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept update to 'accessibility supported' as documented in the above linked page.
15:24:50 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft
15:25:33 <MaryJo> user interface component: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary7/results#xq5
15:26:12 <Mike_P> A software program has 2 controls: a text field for entering a file name and a drop down list box for choosing a folder. Each is a user interface component with a name that is settable by the software.
15:27:53 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for 'user interface component' as written with the edit to the Example updated in the meeting, posted above.
15:28:59 <korn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/a11srvcs/results
15:29:40 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:32:22 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/new-glossary-term-accessibility-services-of-software-and-assistive-technology
15:33:07 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal 2 for accessibility services of software as written.
15:34:45 <andisnow> Maximize compatibility with current and future assistive technology and accessibility services of software
15:35:25 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept substitution proposed for Guidline 4.1 and Principle 4 as updated in the meeting posted above.
15:36:32 <greggvanderheiden> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq2
15:36:35 <MaryJo> Returning to 'programmatically determined': https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq2
15:39:41 <korn> Principal 4 Robust: Content must be robust enough that it can be interpreted reliably by a wide variety of [assistive technology, ACCESSIBILITY FEATURES, and <key term link>accessibility services of software</key term link>].
15:43:58 <korn> In WCAG 2.0, the Principles are provided for framing and understanding the success criteria under them but are not required for conformance to WCAG. Principle 4 applies as written replacing "user agents, including assistive technologies" with "assistive technology, accessibility features and accessibility services of software".
15:44:02 <korn> Principal 4 Robust: Content must be robust enough that it can be interpreted reliably by a wide variety of [assistive technology, accessibility features and <key term link>accessibility services of software</key term link>].
15:44:28 <Zakim> -Loic
15:45:35 <korn> programmatically determineddetermined by software from author-supplied data provided in a way that different [<key term link>accessibility services of software</key term link>] including assistive technologies [and accessibility features of software], can extract and present this information to users in different modalities
15:45:56 <korn> The definition of "programmatically determined" applies to non-web ICT as is, replacing "user agents" with "accessibility services of software" and adding "accessibility features of software".
15:46:58 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft
15:48:44 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept 'programmatically determined' and 'programmatically set' as updated in the meeting, as shown in the above linked page.
15:49:14 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
15:49:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Peter_Korn, +1.512.423.aaaa, David_MacDonald, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_P, [Microsoft], Bruce_Bailey,
15:49:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:49:17 <Zakim> ... Mary_Jo_Mueller, Loic, Janina_Sajka
15:49:20 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:49:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:49:23 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
15:49:30 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft
15:51:12 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
15:51:47 <greggvanderheiden> https://join.me/807-915-348
15:56:24 <andisnow> andisnow has left #wcag2ict
16:18:46 <MaryJo> s/can you repost the link to the collapsable doc?//
16:19:33 <MaryJo> s/The link that David provided above was discussed/The link that David provided (below) was discussed/
16:22:14 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
16:22:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:24:05 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
17:56:29 <MaryJo> Present: Mary_Jo_Mueller, Loic
17:56:36 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:56:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
17:58:01 <MaryJo> Present: Mary_Jo_Mueller, Loic, Peter_Korn, David_MacDonald, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Alex_Li, Bruce_Bailey,
17:58:07 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo