IRC log of webtv on 2013-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:18 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:00:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:00:20 [Zakim]
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13:00:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:00:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:00:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
13:00:23 [trackbot]
Date: 21 May 2013
13:00:24 [pal_]
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13:00:39 [glenn]
zakim, list conferences
13:00:39 [Zakim]
I see Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, SW_SWSTR()9:00AM active
13:00:40 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM, Team_(MEET)8:00AM, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, MM_MMI(Discovery)9:00AM
13:00:46 [glenn]
zakim, this will be webtv
13:00:46 [Zakim]
ok, glenn; I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM scheduled to start now
13:00:56 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:00:57 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:00:57 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has now started
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13:01:39 [jcverdie]
"conference is restricted at this time"?
13:01:49 [Zakim]
13:01:58 [kaz]
rrsagent, stop
13:04:15 [Zakim]
+ +44.303.040.aaaa
13:04:23 [olivier]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:04:23 [Zakim]
+olivier; got it
13:04:54 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kazuyuki, pal, glenn, Jean-Charles, Mark_Vickers, olivier
13:04:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pal_, Zakim, RRSAgent, olivier, jcverdie, pal, glenn, kaz, trackbot
13:06:14 [Mark_Vickers]
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rrsagent, start
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Chair: Pierre
13:07:14 [kaz]
Scribe: Mark
13:07:37 [kaz]
Present: Kaz, Pierre, Glenn, Jean-Charles, Mark_Vickers, Olivier
13:08:31 [kaz]
13:08:49 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: Agenda: 1. meeting time. 2. TTWG Charter 3. Testing project
13:09:13 [olivier]
13:09:19 [pal_]
13:09:22 [Mark_Vickers]
Topic: Revised TTWG charter
13:10:16 [Mark_Vickers]
Pierre: The main addition to the charter is WebVTT
13:11:02 [olivier]
13:11:09 [Mark_Vickers]
... There seems to be support in the TTWG, but some opposition on AC list discussion. Can the Web & TV industry provide some direction.
13:13:15 [Mark_Vickers]
Olivier: One thing that could be useful is to point to adoption of both specs. Both specs have wide adoption. AC statements that TTML is irrelevant & noxious are concerning.
13:13:49 [olivier]
13:13:55 [Mark_Vickers]
Pierre: TTML has had great adoption. It is the responsibility of W3C to harmonize the two.
13:16:38 [Mark_Vickers]
Glenn: Harmonize implies merging into one. I expect both will exist. I think it will be good for both to be in one group. There has been much misinformation on TTML, for example on XSL. Having both in one group will decrease partisanship.
13:17:37 [Mark_Vickers]
... Cox has asked for specific language in the charter asking for a level playing field and support of both.
13:18:28 [olivier]
Mark_Vickers: we've had too much of a focus on tech issues, not enough IMHO on doing what's best for people with hearing impairments
13:18:34 [glenn]
13:18:35 [olivier]
... more important than this vs that architecture
13:18:46 [glenn]
13:18:49 [olivier]
... in that regard fewer specs would be better than more
13:19:10 [olivier]
... would be good to see all TTML variants pulled into one
13:19:31 [olivier]
... and make sure we can maximally map the semantics between the two, if there are to be more than one spec
13:19:46 [olivier]
... if there can't be a mapping, we would lose information
13:20:33 [kaz]
i/we've had too much/scribenick: olivier
13:20:39 [kaz]
scribenick: Mark_Vickers
13:21:06 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: Do you think it's realistic that one community will give up one sntax?
13:23:46 [Mark_Vickers]
olivier: I don't think that it's realistic for there to be one spec given current usage.
13:24:32 [Mark_Vickers]
mark_vickers: I agree it's unlikely to be one spec, but I think it's worth stating that it's an ideal.
13:25:30 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: I don't agree with a single spec notion because I think it's impractical and causes more trouble.
13:26:08 [Mark_Vickers]
... I agree it's important to serve the community for captions, both hearing and hearing-impaired.
13:26:32 [Mark_Vickers]
Pierre: What about the goal of maximizing semantic compatibility?
13:27:19 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: To some degree. The goals of TTML were broader, for example in the use of SMIL. I wouldn't expect WebVTT to adopt that.
13:27:47 [Mark_Vickers]
Pierre: But to the amount that one is a semantic superset of the other>
13:29:53 [Mark_Vickers]
mark_vickers: what about when semantics cannot be mapped?
13:30:07 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: browsers need to support both formats
13:31:13 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: The superset format can be mapped, but some information will be lost.
13:31:24 [pal_]
13:32:22 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: Would it be worth sharing the TF list of adoption of TTML & WebVTT to show adoption of both?
13:32:41 [Mark_Vickers]
... Can we come up with a requirement that all are happy?
13:34:54 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: it would be useful to identify the caption communities
13:39:16 [Mark_Vickers]
olivier: the audio group has a hierarchy of developer, implementor, spec maker. In the case of timed text: user, author, implementor, spec maker
13:40:10 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: I'd order user, author first, but whether implementor or spec maker is first is unclear
13:41:02 [Mark_Vickers]
olivier: an example is if something is tedious to specify, but important for implementors, you need to do the spec
13:43:52 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: I see the order as user, {author, implementor, spec maker} with the latter an unoredered list
13:44:36 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: I think author is a priority over the latter two
13:45:15 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: How about user, author, {`implementor, spec maker}?
13:46:11 [olivier]
"ensure maximal interop"?
13:46:48 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: Some progress on community. How do we get to agreement on the points on mapping?
13:47:06 [Mark_Vickers]
olivier: I like maximize semantic mapping
13:49:57 [Mark_Vickers]
... what really worries me is that if the two evolve together, there will be mapping from one to the other, but if there's not a clear decision of which is a superset, we're in trouble
13:50:22 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: I like "Ensure maximal semantic interop"
13:51:06 [Mark_Vickers]
... right now I beliebe WebVTT is a subset of TTML, as far as I'm aware.
13:51:51 [Mark_Vickers]
... for example TTML ability to specifiy feature priority
13:53:20 [Mark_Vickers]
... if WebVTT is kept as a subset of TTML, that would maximize interop
13:53:56 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: that is beyond the ability of this group,
13:54:06 [pal_]
- pal's notes
13:54:10 [pal_]
- need to provide better information
13:54:13 [Mark_Vickers]
glenn: Perhaps just state one could be superset of another
13:54:19 [pal_]
- minimize profiles
13:54:26 [pal_]
- user, author, {implementer, spec maker}
13:54:35 [pal_]
- ensure maximal semantic interop (one syntax might be a superset of the other)
13:55:03 [olivier]
14:02:29 [Mark_Vickers]
topic: Meeting time
14:02:48 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: 8AM Los Angeles time?
14:02:48 [Zakim]
14:03:08 [Mark_Vickers]
... on Thursdays
14:03:29 [Mark_Vickers]
pierre: What about 30th for next call?
14:04:01 [kaz]
zakim, unmute me
14:04:01 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki was not muted, kaz
14:04:50 [Mark_Vickers]
ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to email
14:04:50 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Pierre'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
14:05:11 [Zakim]
14:05:12 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
14:05:12 [Zakim]
14:05:17 [Zakim]
14:05:25 [glenn]
rrsagent, publish minutes
14:05:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate glenn
14:05:36 [glenn]
trackbot, end meeting
14:05:36 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:05:36 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kazuyuki, pal, glenn, Jean-Charles, Mark_Vickers, +44.303.040.aaaa, olivier
14:05:39 [Mark_Vickers]
ACTION: pal_ to draft position statement and post to email
14:05:44 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:05:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
14:05:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:05:45 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
14:05:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to email [1]
14:05:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
14:05:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pal_ to draft position statement and post to email [2]
14:05:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
14:05:45 [trackbot]
Error finding 'pal_'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
14:07:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
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logging to
14:07:54 [kaz]
i/The main addition to the/scribenick: Mark_Vickers/
14:07:56 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:08:02 [kaz]
rrsagent, stop