13:59:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-irc
13:59:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:59:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:26 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:59:26 <trackbot> Date: 10 May 2013
13:59:27 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:30 <andisnow> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:59:37 <andisnow> scribe:Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:59:44 <andisnow> scribenick: andisnow
13:59:55 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:59:55 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
13:59:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see korn, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, Mike_P, andisnow, MichaelC, trackbot
13:59:58 <Kiran_Kaja> Kiran_Kaja has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:25 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:26 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, andisnow
14:00:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see Kiran_Kaja, korn, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, Mike_P, andisnow, MichaelC, trackbot
14:00:27 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:29 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:29 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
14:01:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see greggvanderheiden, Kiran_Kaja, korn, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, Mike_P, andisnow, MichaelC, trackbot
14:02:19 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:54 <BBailey> zakim, i am bbailey
14:02:55 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not see a party named 'bbailey'
14:03:03 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
14:03:03 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not see a party named 'bruce'
14:03:18 <BBailey> zakim, who is here
14:03:18 <Zakim> BBailey, you need to end that query with '?'
14:03:26 <BBailey> zakim, who is here?
14:03:26 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, BBailey
14:03:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see BBailey, greggvanderheiden, Kiran_Kaja, korn, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, Mike_P, andisnow, MichaelC, trackbot
14:04:02 <andisnow> agenda+ Discuss the 'Survey on revised WCAG2ICT text for command line UI's
14:04:23 <andisnow> agenda+ Discuss the 'Glossary of Terms related to conformance' survey
14:04:27 <alex_> alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:06:32 <andisnow> agenda+ Action items [4] review/status
14:06:46 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_(WCAG2ICT)
14:06:46 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM already started
14:06:55 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:06:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10, ??P11, Gregg_Vanderheiden, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, +1.510.334.aaaa, Bruce_Bailey, Judy, Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:07:12 <korn> Zakim, aaaa is Peter_Korn
14:07:12 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:07:16 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/new_conformance/results
14:07:46 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:07:46 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discuss the 'Survey on revised WCAG2ICT text for command line UI's" taken up [from andisnow]
14:08:12 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce_bailey
14:08:12 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
14:08:20 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:08:20 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
14:08:41 <janina> zakim, ??P10 is me
14:08:41 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:09:05 <korn> q+
14:11:01 <korn> q-
14:11:02 <andisnow> Editorial change suggested: Change "Since and external AT is able to extract and present that information…" to "Where AT is able to extract and present that information…"
14:11:49 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal as amended with editorial change: Change "Since and external AT is able to extract and present that information…" to "Where AT is able to extract and present that information…"
14:11:57 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:11:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discuss the 'Glossary of Terms related to conformance' survey" taken up [from andisnow]
14:12:04 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/may102013confterms/results#xq5
14:14:01 <korn> q+
14:14:44 <andisnow> Proposal to include some discussion in chapter 5 about WCAG conformance without implying that anything can conform to WCAG2ICT
14:15:14 <andisnow> ack korn
14:15:14 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:15:46 <andisnow> Here is the URL for the top of the survey:
14:15:50 <andisnow> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/may102013confterms/results
14:16:25 <korn> q=
14:16:28 <korn> q-
14:16:59 <Mike_P> q+
14:17:09 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:19:48 <andisnow> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:19:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, ??P11, Gregg_Vanderheiden, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, Peter_Korn, Bruce_Bailey (muted), Judy, Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:19:56 <andisnow> zakim, ??P11 is Mike_Pluke
14:19:56 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:20:20 <korn> q+
14:20:29 <andisnow> ack Mike
14:22:40 <greggvanderheiden> ack k
14:22:40 <andisnow> ack korn
14:24:22 <andisnow> ack judy
14:27:13 <korn> q+
14:27:37 <andisnow> ack korn
14:27:46 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:28:33 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:29:13 <Mike_P> q+
14:29:50 <korn> q+
14:32:31 <andisnow> ack mike
14:32:34 <andisnow> ack korn
14:33:41 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:34:06 <Kiran_Kaja> +1
14:34:49 <andisnow> Not clear why we need to add discussion of WCAG conformance principles. We could simply link to them.
14:35:38 <andisnow> ack judy
14:37:19 <andisnow> need an addition to the Introduction, nothing in this document changes the way WCAG applies to a web page or application
14:39:08 <Mike_P> q+
14:39:58 <andisnow> does WCAG say something about the case where, for example, you automatically meet SC 1.4.2 if you don't have any audio that automatically plays? If so, we should just refer to it rather than repeat it.
14:40:18 <korn> q+
14:40:27 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:41:38 <andisnow> if we include the "understanding conformance" section and say this applies as written, then we are stating what conformance to WCAG2ICT means - but we can't do that because WCAG2ICT is "informative", not "normative"
14:42:37 <andisnow> ack Mike
14:43:00 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:43:40 <andisnow> q+
14:43:56 <andisnow> ack korn
14:44:44 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:46:42 <andisnow> ack andi
14:48:14 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:50:10 <andisnow> not clear why we are including these principles if we don't say how they apply or might be different in the non-web ICT context
14:50:34 <Mike_P> q+
14:50:50 <korn> q+
14:52:38 <andisnow> if we don't put anything in our document, reader won't know that the SC are dependent on a certain approach to conformance
14:52:54 <alex_> q+
14:53:15 <andisnow> ack mike
14:53:17 <andisnow> ack korn
14:53:59 <andisnow> suggestion that we describe some of the challenges you need to be aware of similar to what we did for "closed functionality"
14:53:59 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:56:28 <andisnow> ack alex
14:57:12 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:57:20 <Mike_P> +1
14:58:56 <Bruce_Bailey> Bruce_Bailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:59:46 <Mike_P> +1
15:01:43 <Zakim> -Judy
15:02:39 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept only proposal #5 "Introduction" and "Excluded from Scope" portions as written.
15:03:09 <andisnow> Should hold off on taking these portions to WCAG until we have consensus on text for Chapter 5
15:03:14 <korn> q+
15:03:17 <andisnow> topic: conforming alternate version
15:03:19 <andisnow> ack judy
15:04:03 <korn> q-
15:04:13 <alex_> q+
15:04:31 <andisnow> q+
15:05:25 <andisnow> often alternate versions are created to target specific disabilities - one for those who can't see, one for those who can't hear, etc.
15:05:32 <andisnow> ack alex
15:05:49 <andisnow> but in WCAG, you have to have at least one version that conforms
15:06:50 <greggvanderheiden> +1
15:07:05 <greggvanderheiden> ack a
15:07:10 <andisnow> could add a note that explains what "conforming alternate version" means
15:07:26 <korn> q+
15:07:56 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:08:00 <greggvanderheiden> ack k
15:08:05 <andisnow> ack gregg
15:08:28 <korn> q+
15:09:17 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:09:26 <andisnow> suggestion incorporating Peter's comments: Note 1: The alternative can be provided directly in the non-web document or software – or provided in an alternate version that meets the success criteria.
15:09:33 <andisnow> ack korn
15:11:17 <greggvanderheiden> +1
15:11:22 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
15:12:25 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal as modified. Note 1 to read: Note 1: The alternative can be provided directly in the non-web document or software – or provided in an alternate version that meets the success criteria.
15:13:46 <korn> q+
15:13:57 <korn> +1
15:13:58 <korn> q-
15:15:19 <korn> q+
15:15:33 <greggvanderheiden> I am happy either way.
15:15:47 <greggvanderheiden> just thought consistency was better.
15:16:01 <andisnow> topic: "conforming alternate version" definition
15:16:06 <Mike_P> "The guidance in this document does not use the term conforming alternate version."
15:17:46 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal as amended 'The guidance in this document does not use the term "conforming alternate version".'
15:19:01 <korn> q+
15:22:32 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/sc-and-glossary-changes-related-to-conformance
15:22:46 <andisnow> This applies directly as written replacing "the page" with "the non-web document or software". With this substitution, it would read "the success criterion does not evaluate to 'false' when applied to THE NON-WEB DOCUMENT OR SOFTWARE"
15:24:07 <korn> q+
15:25:05 <korn> q+
15:26:06 <korn> q+
15:27:09 <andisnow> ack korn
15:28:38 <korn> q+
15:30:52 <korn> q-
15:31:12 <korn> q+
15:31:40 <andisnow> leave "satisfies a success criterion" open until we close on Chapter 5 text
15:31:56 <andisnow> topic: Success Criteria where conformance is used
15:32:34 <andisnow> ack korn
15:33:45 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal by Gregg in the survey at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/may102013confterms/results#xq3
15:34:28 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:34:31 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:34:34 <andisnow> zakim, bye
15:34:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, +1.510.334.aaaa, Bruce_Bailey, Judy, Peter_Korn, janina, Mike_Pluke
15:34:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:34:37 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:36:05 <andisnow> present: Andi_Snow-Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Alex_Li, Kiran_Kaja, Janina_Sajka, Bruce_Bailey, Judy_Brewer, Peter_Korn, Mike_Pluke
15:36:16 <andisnow> regrets: Loic_Martinez_Normand
15:36:19 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:36:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:37:13 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/sc-and-glossary-changes-related-to-conformance
15:37:47 <andisnow> s/Since and external AT/Since an external AT/
15:38:31 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:39:46 <andisnow> s/Excluded from Scope" portions as written./Excluded from Scope" portions as written. Re-work Chapter 5 text./
15:39:51 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:41:26 <andisnow> s?https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/sc-and-glossary-changes-related-to-conformance??
15:41:31 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:41:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:44:51 <andisnow_> andisnow_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:44:52 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
15:48:12 <andisnow_> trackbot, end meeting
15:48:12 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:48:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:48:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html trackbot
15:48:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:48:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items