13:55:44 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 13:55:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-irc 13:55:46 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:46 Zakim has joined #wcag2ict 13:55:48 Zakim, this will be 2428 13:55:48 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:55:49 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 13:55:49 Date: 03 May 2013 13:55:56 chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver 13:56:05 regrets: Alex_Li 13:56:23 Kiran_Kaja has joined #wcag2ict 13:58:41 MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict 13:59:28 WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started 13:59:35 +Andi_Snow_Weaver 14:00:24 Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict 14:00:27 +Mary_Jo_Mueller 14:00:40 +Kiran_Kaja 14:00:40 korn has joined #wcag2ict 14:00:46 +??P17 14:00:51 scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller 14:01:06 +[Oracle] 14:01:06 scribenick:MaryJo 14:01:08 zakim, ??P17 is Mike_Pluke 14:01:08 +Mike_Pluke; got it 14:01:25 Loic has joined #wcag2ict 14:01:40 Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn 14:01:40 +Peter_Korn; got it 14:01:53 +??P21 14:01:57 janina has joined #wcag2ict 14:02:00 +??P22 14:02:12 Zakim, ??P21 is me 14:02:12 +Loic; got it 14:02:31 zakim, ??P22 is Janina_Sajka 14:02:32 +Janina_Sajka; got it 14:02:55 +[IPcaller] 14:02:58 Judy has joined #wcag2ict 14:03:18 zakim, IPCaller is Gregg_Vanderheiden 14:03:18 +Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it 14:03:24 +Judy 14:04:59 +Bruce_Bailey 14:05:53 regrets:Alex_Li 14:06:09 topic: WCAG working group results 14:06:10 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft 14:06:28 greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict 14:06:39 BBailey has joined #wcag2ict 14:06:43 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft 14:06:57 zakim, who is here 14:06:58 BBailey, you need to end that query with '?' 14:07:01 They reviewed and approved 2.2.1, and reviewed glossary terms. We need to consider a change they made posted in link above. 14:07:07 zakim, who is here? 14:07:07 On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Kiran_Kaja, Mike_Pluke, [Oracle], Loic, Janina_Sajka, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Judy, Bruce_Bailey 14:07:09 [Oracle] has Peter_Korn 14:07:09 On IRC I see BBailey, greggvanderheiden, Judy, janina, Loic, korn, Mike_P, MaryJo, Kiran_Kaja, Zakim, RRSAgent, andisnow, MichaelC, shadi, trackbot 14:07:15 zakim, i am bruce 14:07:16 ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey 14:07:18 This document does not provide guidance on applying AAA Success Criteria to non-web ICT, including the following definitions. 14:07:23 zakim, mute me 14:07:23 Bruce_Bailey should now be muted 14:08:03 -Gregg_Vanderheiden 14:08:26 We need to approve their edit. 14:08:42 They didn't like our text for conformance or for command line interfact. Peter has the action item to work on those and has a first pass on conformance. 14:09:08 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/c---conformance-all 14:10:15 2 problems with conformance - 4 bullets at top of conformance page that they want written in the 3rd person, and they want to remove references to the 'task force' as the end product will be from the WCAG working group. 14:10:26 +[IPcaller] 14:10:42 -[IPcaller] 14:11:34 They want to see the text flowing more and want it placed in the appendix. 14:11:52 s/interfact/interface/ 14:12:11 They also want the command line interface moved to an appendix. 14:12:38 RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed text for the AAA glossary terms. 14:13:33 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/may032013pandg/results 14:13:36 topic: Discuss the 'Survey on Guidance on Principles and Guidelines' survey 14:14:26 greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict 14:14:35 +[IPcaller] 14:14:40 Comments on principle 4 and guideline 4.1.2 were to change text to 'assistive technologies.' 14:14:47 back 14:15:01 what doc are we on? 14:15:13 RESOLUTION: Accept guideline 3.2 as written. 14:15:52 RESOLUTION: Accept Principle 4 with the change to use 'assistive technologies'. 14:15:52 s/guideline 3.2/proposal for guideline 3.2/ 14:15:55 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/may032013pandg/results 14:16:29 s/Principle 4/proposal for Principle 4/ 14:16:44 s/what doc are we on?// 14:17:18 RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for guideline 4.1 as amended to use 'technologies' instead of 'technology'. 14:17:31 andisnow_ has joined #wcag2ict 14:17:39 s/Principle 4/proposal for Principle 4/ 14:18:26 q+ 14:19:10 it was assistive technologies in the first place -- so this aligns better with original text 14:19:11 +Judy, I think Assistive Technology is already plural 14:20:21 i am okay w/ that explaination 14:20:24 user agents is plural --so probably should be plural for AT as well 14:20:40 RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for all Principles/Guidelines other than 3.2, 4, and 4.1 as written. 14:20:49 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft/text-for 14:20:59 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft 14:21:26 topic: Discuss the 'Glossary of Terms - Part 5' survey [3] addressing items 2, 5 and 9 only 14:21:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results 14:22:07 -[IPcaller] 14:22:26 viewport - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq4 14:23:11 +[IPcaller] 14:23:34 Split comments on what replacement to text - 'software' vs. 'software, including user agents'. 14:23:57 s/replacement to text/replacement to use/ 14:24:48 RESOLUTION: Accept proposal the definition of viewport replacing 'user agent' with 'software'. 14:25:22 changes of context - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq7 14:30:30 WCAG is considering a 2.1, but it would not be completed for quite while. There can be an errata in the meantime to show editorial changes, but wouldn't include any technical updates. 14:30:33 +Shadi 14:33:13 Yes I will just type 14:33:27 s/Yes I will just type// 14:33:37 s/considering a 2.1, but it would not be/considering an updated version, but would need to explore requirements first, so any new numbered version would not be/ 14:33:59 click on something - that launches a separate player 14:34:22 s/any technical updates/any normative changes/ 14:34:25 q+ 14:34:30 clarify in understanding doc 14:34:36 ack mike 14:34:41 ack korn 14:35:20 q+ - i''ll jus type my comment. -- you can read it. If we need clarification we can do that in Understanding WCAG 2.0 14:36:54 q+ 14:37:46 s/i''ll jus type my comment.// 14:38:01 s/-- you can read it.// 14:38:14 q+ how about entire document or software display simultaneously 14:38:59 how about "entire document or software display simultaneously" 14:39:32 use that as the substitution for "entire page" 14:39:54 major changes in the content of the [NON-WEB DOCUMENT OR CONTENT PRESENTED BY SOFTWARE] that, if made without user awareness, can disorient users who are not able to view the entire [NON-WEB DOCUMENT OR CONTENT PRESENTED BY SOFTWARE] simultaneously." That's why Gregg and I came up with the proposal to use "content presented 14:40:11 S/That's why Gregg and I came up with the proposal to use "content presented// 14:40:50 cause you can't really see a whole document at one time ==- nor whole software 14:40:50 sure 14:40:50 yes 14:41:03 s/sure// 14:41:08 s/yes// 14:41:51 RESOLUTION: Accept the definition of 'changes of context' as amended. 14:42:12 If you can draft it I can send it up… 14:42:22 action: Peter to request WCAG WG clarification of changes of context in Understanding WCAG 2.0 14:42:22 Created ACTION-96 - Request WCAG WG clarification of changes of context in Understanding WCAG 2.0 [on Peter Korn - due 2013-05-10]. 14:42:34 s/If you can draft it I can send it up…// 14:42:46 s/: If you can draft it I can send it up…// 14:42:59 structure - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xstruct 14:43:11 -[IPcaller] 14:44:05 s/If you can draft it I can send it up…// 14:44:51 +[IPcaller] 14:45:18 what note? 14:46:22 Suggest adding this note: Note: Unlike collections of Web pages, sets of non-Web documents or software are often simply separate files in a file system and have no meaningful structure in relation to each other. 14:47:23 Note: Unlike collections of Web pages, sets of non-Web documents or software are often simply separate files in a file system and are not organized in any meaningful structure in relation to each other. 14:47:24 -[IPcaller] 14:48:48 +[IPcaller] 14:49:46 for example 14:50:00 +David_MacDonald 14:50:01 a site map would show the relationship of pages 14:50:08 if not semantically marked up 14:50:31 you would not be able to tell what pages were children of which pages 14:51:12 David has joined #wcag2ict 14:52:00 q+ 14:52:08 ack g 14:52:22 q- 14:52:24 ack loic 14:52:47 -[IPcaller] 14:53:13 +Gregg_Vanderheiden 14:54:16 I can do text 14:56:06 Our definition of 'sets of non-web documents or software' include providing structural linkages between them, so the proposed note is not accurate. 14:56:15 action: Gregg to propose modification to WCAG 2.0 INTENT for SC 1.3.1 to clarify structure wrt collections of web pages 14:56:15 Created ACTION-97 - Propose modification to WCAG 2.0 INTENT for SC 1.3.1 to clarify structure wrt collections of web pages [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2013-05-10]. 14:56:18 For example, a web page that shows a site map depicting the structure of the web site visually must present the information in text or markup so that the structure of the site is programmatically determinable or presented in text 14:56:20 DONE 14:56:31 DONE 14:56:31 see above 14:56:54 is that an OK example? 14:56:55 I will pass it on to WCAG 14:57:02 s/DONE// 14:57:16 s/see above// 14:57:31 yes it is 14:57:36 s/is that an OK example?// 14:58:00 I will package it 14:58:00 go on and I will give you the package text in a sec 14:59:38 s/I will package it// 14:59:53 s/go on and I will give you the package text in a sec// 15:00:02 Note: See the guidance on user "sets of documents" and "sets of software" in the Key Terms section. 15:00:15 s/user// 15:00:20 Note: See the guidance on user "sets of documents" and "sets of software" in the Key Terms section. 15:00:27 Note: See the guidance on"sets of documents" and "sets of software" in the Key Terms section. 15:00:39 PACKAGING TEXT: the WCAG2ICT was examining the definition of STRUCTURE and had trouble understanding how structure of pages related, since there was no mention of structure of pages in the success criteria themselves. The following example was put forward by one member. It this an example of what you meant? If so can you add it to Understanding WCAG 2.0 ? If not, what did it mean? thx 15:01:17 is that packaging OK? 15:02:24 https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft 15:05:06 RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed definition of "structure" as amended with a note to reference "sets" discussion in Key Terms section, pending WCAG WG approval to modify SC 1.3.1 INTENT 15:05:44 say again? 15:06:00 structure of a "collection of web pages" 15:06:07 well isn't your point that is isn't referenced anywhere? 15:06:17 not just that it isn't in one place 15:06:19 s/say again?// 15:06:28 right 15:06:35 "no mention of structure of a collection of web pages in SC 1.3.1" 15:06:38 that is what the package says 15:06:41 s/right// 15:07:04 you have a glossary item that isn't used ANYWHERE to talk about set of pages 15:07:12 that was your point 15:07:13 s/that is what the package says// 15:07:13 yes? 15:07:24 Right. 15:07:27 s/yes?// 15:07:33 s/Right.// 15:08:20 how is this 15:08:21 PACKAGING TEXT: the WCAG2ICT was examining the definition of STRUCTURE and had trouble understanding how structure of A COLLECTION OF WEB pages related, since there was no mention of structure of A COLLECTION OF WEB pages in the success criteria themselves. IN FACT, STRUCTURE IS ONLY USED IN SC 1.3.1. The following example was put forward by one member. It this an example of what you meant? If so can you add it to Understanding WCAG 2.0 FOR SC [CUT] 15:08:21 If not, what did it mean? 15:08:21 The WCAG2ICT was examining the definition of STRUCTURE and had trouble understanding how structure of pages related, since structure is only in 1.3.1 and there there was no mention of structure of pages in the success criterion. The following example was put forward by one member. 15:08:38 sure 15:08:50 s/sure// 15:08:58 s/how is this// 15:09:13 The WCAG2ICT was examining the definition of STRUCTURE and had trouble understanding how structure of pages related, since structure is only in 1.3.1 and there there was no mention of "the way a collection of pages is organized" in the success criterion. The following example was put forward by one member. 15:09:22 does that capture it Andi? 15:09:28 q+ 15:09:51 s/does that capture it Andi?// 15:10:15 The WCAG2ICT was examining the definition of STRUCTURE and had trouble understanding how structure of pages related, since structure is only in 1.3.1 and there there was no mention of structure of pages in the success criterion. The following example was put forward by one member. 15:10:15 - It this an example of what you meant? 15:10:17 - If so can you add it to Understanding WCAG 2.0 ? 15:10:18 - If not, what did it mean? thx 15:10:18 "For example, a web page that shows a site map depicting the structure of the web site visually must present the information in text or markup so that the structure of the site is programmatically determinable or presented in text." 15:11:04 where is it used? 15:11:20 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary6/results 15:11:23 can you pull those parts together and post them on some one page? 15:12:28 I agree with Andi 15:13:07 q+ 15:13:14 our notes ? or WCAG? 15:13:26 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-wcag2ict-20121213/#visual-audio-contrast-dis-audio 15:13:39 The remaining 4: conformance, conforming alternate version, technology (Web content), and accessibility supported. 15:14:39 since we aren't addressing conformance in our document, we should probably remove any notes referring to conformance. Affects 4 sc's: 1.4.2, 2.1.2, 2.2.2, and 2.3.1. 15:14:51 1.2.1 1.4.2 (remove that note from 1.4.2, 2.1.2 2.2.2) 15:15:05 ALSO SEE 1.2.1 15:15:57 1.2.1 refers to 'conforming alternate version'. 15:16:12 right -- I searched for "conform" to find them all 15:17:13 q+ to say the notes are not normative right? 15:17:19 This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above). 15:17:19 Note 1: The alternative can be provided directly in the non-web document or software – or provided in a conforming alternate version. 15:17:19 Note 2: See also the discussion on Closed Functionality in the Introduction. 15:17:31 q- 15:18:02 -Gregg_Vanderheiden 15:18:04 This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above). 15:18:05 Note 1: The alternative can be provided directly in the non-web document or software – or provided in an alternate version. 15:18:06 Note 2: See also the discussion on Closed Functionality in the Introduction. 15:18:15 there is the text for 1.2.1 15:18:20 Need to form a proposal to either modify the notes that refer to 'conformance' and 'conforming alternate versions' or remove those notes and take those to the WCAG working group. 15:18:33 it actually doesn’t appear in the SC itself 15:18:43 we introduced it in our note 15:18:51 so we could just take it OUT of our note 15:19:15 s/ appear in the/appear in the/ 15:19:16 +[IPcaller] 15:19:58 The remaining 5: conformance, conforming alternate version, technology (Web content), and accessibility supported, satisfies a success criterion 15:20:39 I fell of and couldn't hear. did the 1.2.1 fix work? 15:20:48 action: David to make proposal for "accessibility supported" and "technology (web content)" 15:20:48 Created ACTION-98 - Make proposal for "accessibility supported" and "technology (web content)" [on David MacDonald - due 2013-05-10]. 15:21:15 David will work on technology (Web content) and 'accessibility supported' and Andi will work on the rest as part of the existing action item on glossary terms. 15:21:47 OK great 15:21:52 topic: Action items 15:21:53 what do we have to take to WCAG WG? 15:21:58 -[IPcaller] 15:22:28 other than the STRUCTUREal change to INTENT for 1.3.1 15:23:01 fell off again 15:23:09 +[IPcaller] 15:23:45 s/OK great// 15:23:55 s/fell off again// 15:25:36 ABSOLUTELY -- please package them and send to me 15:25:43 that is fine 15:26:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open 15:26:14 s/that is fine// 15:26:34 what was the concern? 15:26:44 if no one remembers -- -close it? 15:26:53 close ACTION-70 15:26:53 Closed ACTION-70 Work with on a proposal for 3.2.3 that avoids having to define "navigational mechanisms" for software.. 15:26:56 (sensory experience) 15:27:15 I think that is OBE? 15:27:53 then you just have to wade to get to the next one 15:28:02 and the intent is what we are agreeing with 15:28:06 so should come first 15:28:07 ? 15:28:44 close ACTION-79 15:28:44 Closed ACTION-79 Work with Mike on interpretation of "change of context" for software for 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. 15:29:35 close ACTION-85 15:29:35 Closed ACTION-85 Propose text for guidance on Guidelines per his comments on the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results. 15:29:59 86 is OBE 15:30:06 close ACTION-86 15:30:06 Closed ACTION-86 Put item on next year's agenda to consider whether we want to request feedback on "set of software" and any additional topics using a "chaser note". 15:30:29 97 is done 15:30:33 bye 15:30:35 -Kiran_Kaja 15:30:36 -Judy 15:30:37 -Loic 15:30:38 -Bruce_Bailey 15:30:39 -Andi_Snow_Weaver 15:30:39 -Mary_Jo_Mueller 15:30:40 -David_MacDonald 15:30:40 -Shadi 15:30:41 -[Oracle] 15:30:42 s/bye// 15:30:46 -Mike_Pluke 15:30:54 -Janina_Sajka 15:30:58 -[IPcaller] 15:30:58 janina has left #wcag2ict 15:31:00 WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended 15:31:00 Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Kiran_Kaja, Mike_Pluke, Peter_Korn, Loic, Janina_Sajka, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Judy, Bruce_Bailey, [IPcaller], Shadi, David_MacDonald 15:31:15 zakim, bye 15:31:15 Zakim has left #wcag2ict 15:31:24 rrsagent, make minutes 15:31:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 15:32:58 korn has left #wcag2ict 15:58:14 Judy has joined #wcag2ict 15:59:39 s/They didn't like our text for conformance/They requested edits to our text for conformance/ 16:01:27 s/back// 16:02:18 s/explaination/explanation/ 16:04:46 s/That's why Gregg and I came up with the proposal to use "content presented// 16:05:11 rrsagent, make minutes 16:05:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:06:01 s/That's why Gregg and I came up with the proposal to use "content presented// 16:06:10 rrsagent, make minutes 16:06:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:07:44 s/what note?// 16:08:16 s/I can do text// 16:09:14 s/DONE// 16:09:25 rrsagent, make minutes 16:09:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:10:02 s/yes it is// 16:10:22 s/Note: See the guidance on user "sets of documents" and "sets of software" in the Key Terms section.// 16:10:54 s/Note: See the guidance on"sets of documents" and "sets of software" in the Key Terms section.// 16:15:45 s/our notes ? or WCAG?// 16:16:44 s/It this an example of what you meant?/Is this an example of what you meant?/ 16:16:50 rrsagent, make minutes 16:16:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo 16:17:30 s/ It this an example of what you meant?/ Is this an example of what you meant?/ 16:18:29 s/since we aren't addressing/Since we aren't addressing/ 16:39:04 andisnow has joined #wcag2ict 16:39:49 andisnow has joined #wcag2ict 16:40:55 andisnow_ has joined #wcag2ict 16:54:46 s/right -- I searched for "conform" to find them all// 16:55:36 s/it actually doesn’tappear in the SC itself/It actually doesn’t appear in the SC itself./ 16:56:11 s/I fell of and couldn't hear. did the 1.2.1 fix work?// 16:58:40 rrsagent, make minutes 16:58:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/03-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo