IRC log of prov on 2013-05-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:56:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-prov-irc
14:56:02 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #prov
14:56:04 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:56:04 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:05 [Luc]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:56:05 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:56:05 [trackbot]
Date: 02 May 2013
14:56:06 [Zakim]
ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:22 [Luc]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.02
14:56:48 [Luc]
Chair: Luc Moreau
14:56:59 [Luc]
Regrets: Curt Tilmes
14:57:09 [Luc]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:57:14 [Luc]
zakim, who is here?
14:57:14 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc
14:57:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, pgroth, ivan, TallTed, stain, trackbot
14:57:52 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:57:59 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:58:09 [pgroth]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:58:09 [Zakim]
+pgroth; got it
14:59:36 [Zakim]
+Luc
14:59:39 [tlebo]
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+tlebo
15:00:03 [smiles]
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15:00:08 [Luc]
hello, anybody willing to scribe?
15:00:11 [Zakim]
+??P39
15:00:21 [smiles]
zakim, ??P39 is me
15:00:21 [Zakim]
+smiles; got it
15:00:25 [tlebo]
Sorry, @luc, I can only stay for 30 minutes
15:00:28 [smiles]
I can scribe
15:00:35 [TallTed]
TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.02
15:00:41 [Luc]
thanks Simon
15:00:42 [ivan]
zakim, code?
15:00:43 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
15:00:48 [Luc]
everything is set up
15:00:51 [jcheney]
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15:00:51 [Luc]
scribe: smiles
15:00:52 [smiles]
ok, thanks
15:01:01 [Zakim]
+[OpenLink]
15:01:08 [Luc]
topic:
15:01:11 [TallTed]
Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software
15:01:11 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
15:01:13 [Luc]
topic: Admin
15:01:18 [TallTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:19 [Zakim]
+TallTed; got it
15:01:20 [TallTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:01:20 [Zakim]
TallTed should now be muted
15:01:26 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:01:31 [hook]
hook has joined #prov
15:02:27 [Zakim]
+jcheney
15:02:35 [Luc]
PROPOSED: to accept Minutes of April 25, 2013 Telcon
15:02:43 [Luc]
https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/prov/2013-04-25
15:02:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aaaa
15:02:59 [ivan]
+1
15:03:00 [smiles]
+1
15:03:03 [tlebo]
+1
15:03:04 [jcheney]
+1
15:03:19 [Luc]
ACCEPTED: Minutes of April 25, 2013 Telcon
15:03:26 [Luc]
Topic: congratulations
15:03:28 [TomDN]
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15:03:30 [pgroth]
YEAH!!!
15:03:40 [smiles]
Luc: Congratulations on all the documents being published on Tuesday!
15:03:57 [tlebo]
:-)
15:04:04 [pgroth]
hey luc - how long was it?
15:04:05 [Dong]
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15:04:13 [ivan]
clap clap clap clap
15:04:20 [Zakim]
+TomDN
15:04:31 [TomDN]
congrats everyone :)
15:04:34 [pgroth]
2 years on the nose
15:04:34 [smiles]
Luc: Last Sunday was the second anniversary of the WG
15:04:34 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:34 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:04:39 [tlebo]
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-04-28
15:05:00 [Luc]
q?
15:05:03 [smiles]
Luc: Any comment on this news?
15:05:08 [pgroth]
q+
15:05:10 [TomDN]
(Sam send his regards and congratulations, he is abroad at the moment)
15:05:11 [smiles]
Just well done!
15:05:15 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:05:16 [Luc]
Topic: Provenance Working Group End Date
15:05:21 [pgroth]
later
15:05:24 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aaaa
15:05:57 [smiles]
Luc: When are we going to close the WG? Last week, we said 2 to 3 weeks to complete remaining tasks
15:06:17 [smiles]
... Proposal to terminate on May 17th, after last telecon on 16th
15:06:18 [Luc]
q?
15:06:24 [pgroth]
q+
15:06:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aabb
15:06:55 [smiles]
pgroth: Do we need more telecons?
15:07:20 [Luc]
ack pg
15:07:26 [tlebo]
If you want stuff from me, you should have me in a telecon...
15:07:29 [smiles]
... Will discuss with Luc after this call whether more are needed
15:07:34 [Curt]
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15:07:44 [tlebo]
+1
15:07:58 [Luc]
PROPOSED: to terminate the activities of the Provenance Working Group on May 17, 2013
15:08:03 [ivan]
+1
15:08:03 [ivan]
+1
15:08:03 [smiles]
+1
15:08:04 [pgroth]
+1
15:08:07 [Dong]
+1
15:08:07 [TomDN]
+1
15:08:07 [TallTed]
+1
15:08:08 [tlebo]
+1
15:08:13 [jcheney_]
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15:08:19 [Luc]
ACCEPTED: to terminate the activities of the Provenance Working Group on May 17, 2013
15:08:21 [jcheney_]
+1
15:08:23 [hook]
+1
15:08:30 [zednik]
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15:08:39 [pgroth]
:-)
15:08:42 [pgroth]
invalidation!
15:08:46 [tlebo]
invalidation!
15:08:47 [smiles]
Luc: Can now complete provenance of PROV family with invalidation on 17 May
15:08:48 [Luc]
q?
15:08:53 [pgroth]
never thought that would be useful… :-)
15:08:59 [smiles]
Luc: Any comment on this?
15:09:02 [Luc]
topic: provenance of documents
15:09:11 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:09:30 [smiles]
Luc: Now have reasonable files edited last week, need to be finalised
15:09:49 [stain]
Hm, but the 17th of May is my country's national day! It's going to be both a sad and happy day for me!
15:10:00 [smiles]
... Will add end of WG, and make a couple of corrections in the use of roles
15:10:14 [pgroth]
@stain - you can join another wg? :-)
15:10:19 [Luc]
q?
15:10:30 [smiles]
... Once finalised, it would be good to have someone look at the Turtle, someone at the XML
15:10:42 [pgroth]
I can do the turtle if tlebo helps
15:10:46 [smiles]
zednik: I can look at the XML
15:11:06 [tlebo]
I already looked at the TTL. I can take another look at the attribution.
15:11:46 [smiles]
Luc: A number of comments in the PROV-N are lost in the translation
15:12:01 [smiles]
... and the translations have different chronological order
15:12:15 [smiles]
pgroth: Do not need to be exactly the same, but will look at them
15:12:33 [stain]
should the comments be made into something like rdfs:comment?
15:12:39 [smiles]
Luc: Aim to finalise by Mon/Tue next week, then pgroth and zednik to edit
15:12:43 [Luc]
q?
15:12:43 [Zakim]
+ +44.442.380.55.aacc
15:12:54 [Luc]
topic: Finalizing /ns
15:13:28 [smiles]
Luc: We have all the schema files, but don't know if they need editing
15:14:08 [smiles]
pgroth: For the HTML file, I need to redo the dummy version; the overview is up to date but just a placeholder
15:14:19 [smiles]
Luc: When will there be an HTML file we can look at?
15:14:34 [tlebo]
Everything is concatenated at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/namespace/releases/prov-20130430
15:14:35 [smiles]
pgroth: Will work on it Sunday/Monday, for review mid-next week
15:15:00 [smiles]
Luc: Do they need any further curation?
15:15:50 [smiles]
tlebo: No plans to do anything else, though having problems loading into Protege
15:15:59 [tlebo]
"# The following was imported from http://www.w3.org/ns/prov-o#"
15:16:15 [smiles]
... Added string above between each of concatenated files
15:16:16 [tlebo]
prov:wasDerivedFrom <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov-aq#">http://www.w3.org/ns/prov-aq#>, <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov-dc#>, <http://www
15:16:29 [pgroth]
yes
15:16:42 [smiles]
... Along with assertion above, this should be everything wanted
15:16:47 [pgroth]
i think I also define things again in prov-aq
15:17:10 [smiles]
Luc: When will you hand over to Stian to look at?
15:17:23 [smiles]
tlebo: Just sent out email to WG during this meeting
15:17:44 [smiles]
Luc: No further editing expected?
15:17:51 [smiles]
tlebo: No
15:18:35 [pgroth]
xsd file
15:18:38 [pgroth]
xsd files
15:18:58 [pgroth]
q+
15:19:00 [smiles]
zednik: For the XSD files, there is no intention to change them further
15:19:32 [zednik]
@pgroth thanks, I was confused :-)
15:19:36 [smiles]
Luc: For the OWL files, small issue, XSD are fine, and HTML files ready mid next week, so well on track to complete
15:19:51 [tlebo]
q+
15:19:54 [ivan]
q+
15:19:59 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:20:00 [smiles]
pgroth: Do we also want to put the PROV-N grammar there?
15:20:02 [pgroth]
we don't have to
15:20:16 [Dong]
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15:20:28 [Zakim]
+Satya_Sahoo
15:20:35 [satya]
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15:20:35 [smiles]
Luc: The grammar is linked from the PROV-N document, as it is already completely inside the document and just convenient standalone file
15:20:50 [smiles]
... Could put in /ns but not sure what MIME type it would be
15:20:55 [pgroth]
ok no prov-n
15:21:13 [Luc]
ack pg
15:21:15 [smiles]
ivan: If it does not have a media type, then can't do it
15:21:17 [tlebo]
I only got feedback from Paul on the ns concatenation -- nothing from editors. Shall I assume that they are happy with its result?
15:21:26 [pgroth]
ack tlebo
15:21:31 [pgroth]
ack ivan
15:21:55 [smiles]
tlebo: Only feedback from Paul on namespace concatentation, but concerns multiple notes (DC, AQ...) , so would like to know editors are happy with it
15:22:03 [pgroth]
well I did it for aq
15:22:05 [Luc]
ack tle
15:22:18 [pgroth]
i took him off the queue
15:22:21 [pgroth]
:-)
15:22:35 [tlebo]
thanks, @ivan :-)
15:22:58 [pgroth]
the only thing left is html
15:23:09 [smiles]
ivan: Can Luc or Paul tell me when all files are ready, not having many requests over the day
15:23:24 [pgroth]
but we can do it in bulk
15:23:34 [pgroth]
when I do it when the html
15:23:37 [tlebo]
FWIW, there is https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/ec6859fefebf/namespace/bin/test-w3org.sh to make sure we have it right...
15:23:41 [smiles]
Luc: Yes, there will be multiple edits, and once these are done we can send a single requests for all
15:24:42 [Luc]
q?
15:26:30 [pgroth]
you need to run it from the namespace directory
15:26:32 [pgroth]
not in bin
15:26:44 [Luc]
Topic: Wikis
15:27:12 [smiles]
Luc: We have tidied up the front page of the PROV Wiki
15:27:33 [smiles]
... A few more things to do on closure of the WG, but can do offline
15:27:54 [smiles]
pgroth: We need to copy some outreach and new information over, other than that its fine
15:28:16 [smiles]
Luc: By copy, we mean copy to SW Wiki and put link from PROV Wiki
15:28:30 [ivan]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV
15:28:56 [smiles]
ivan: I updated above page yesterday, uses Semantic MediaWiki tricks listing tools relating to provenance
15:28:57 [ivan]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tools
15:29:24 [ivan]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/R2RML_Parser example
15:29:38 [smiles]
... Currently it is empty, but if add to above Tools page would automatically appear elsewhere on Wiki
15:29:52 [smiles]
... See the R2RML example above
15:30:08 [pgroth]
can we not copy our implementation report
15:30:08 [tlebo]
q+ confused
15:30:09 [pgroth]
?
15:30:15 [smiles]
... If there are tools from the CR phase, would be good to add
15:30:55 [pgroth]
q+ to ask about this in bulk
15:31:14 [smiles]
ivan: List technologies your tool is relevant for (PROV), and for category put category as on Tool page
15:31:17 [ivan]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Category:Tool
15:31:49 [pgroth]
per technology
15:32:17 [pgroth]
q+
15:32:23 [pgroth]
raises hand
15:32:29 [smiles]
Luc: Will send an action to all to add tools
15:32:31 [Luc]
ack con
15:33:00 [smiles]
pgroth: We have a implementation report, should we convert?
15:33:16 [Luc]
ack pg
15:33:16 [Zakim]
pgroth, you wanted to ask about this in bulk and to and to
15:33:17 [smiles]
ivan: No, other people should do it themselves where they want the tools publicised
15:33:48 [tlebo]
@paul add a link to the implementation report
15:33:51 [smiles]
pgroth: Would like to give (correct) impression that we have a lot of tools, but Wiki will be spartan
15:33:54 [pgroth]
yeah
15:33:55 [Luc]
+1
15:34:18 [tlebo]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV#All_relevant_tools
15:34:21 [smiles]
Luc: Tim's suggestion of a link to the implementation report is good
15:34:23 [pgroth]
in big bold letters
15:35:11 [tlebo]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-implementations-20130430/
15:35:26 [TomDN]
or http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-implementations/
15:35:37 [smiles]
ivan: Have to make clear it was status of implementation as of now, will be irrelevant late
15:35:48 [tlebo]
w00t http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV
15:37:33 [smiles]
ivan: Could add something more on SW Wiki main PROV page to make more self-explanatory, today would be nice; can add sub-pages to help keep up community; etc.
15:37:41 [tlebo]
:-)
15:37:45 [Luc]
q?
15:37:57 [tlebo]
q+
15:38:00 [TomDN]
Were we going to make the FAQ editable after the closing as well?
15:38:07 [pgroth]
i'll do some updating
15:38:16 [Luc]
Topic: FAQ
15:38:23 [pgroth]
q+
15:38:27 [pgroth]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV-FAQ
15:38:31 [TomDN]
(nevermind :) )
15:38:47 [smiles]
Luc: Is the FAQ finished?
15:38:56 [tlebo]
q-
15:39:01 [Luc]
q?
15:39:23 [tlebo]
q+ to point out that you need to "no-op edit" http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV to get it to refresh the listing of tools.
15:39:24 [smiles]
pgroth: It needs to be cleaned up, some sections are a bit overloaded
15:39:47 [Luc]
ack pg
15:39:54 [tlebo]
@ivan, "All relevant tools" is a bit closed-world for a SW wiki...
15:40:20 [Luc]
ack tl
15:40:20 [Zakim]
tlebo, you wanted to point out that you need to "no-op edit" http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV to get it to refresh the listing of tools.
15:40:32 [smiles]
tlebo: Just to mention, when you add your tool to the SW Wiki, need to refresh (edit and save) PROV page for tool to be included
15:40:36 [pgroth]
yes
15:40:43 [Luc]
q?
15:41:34 [smiles]
Luc: There are to-dos for Tim, under PAQ, and regarding JAXB; are authors planning to complete?
15:41:40 [pgroth]
q+
15:41:45 [Luc]
ack pg
15:42:12 [Luc]
q?
15:42:14 [smiles]
pgroth: To-dos from PAQ are just dumped there, so I or Graham need to clean up
15:42:24 [pgroth]
yes
15:42:27 [Luc]
q?
15:42:33 [smiles]
Luc: If no-one can complete the tasks, then remove to-dos
15:42:38 [Luc]
Topic: Dissemination/Announcement
15:42:53 [ivan]
For the records: interview with Luc and Paul: http://www.w3.org/QA/2013/04/interview_paul_groth_and_luc_m.html
15:42:54 [Luc]
q?
15:42:58 [pgroth]
Q=
15:43:00 [pgroth]
q+
15:43:03 [smiles]
Luc: Planning write blog entry on PROV family of documents next week
15:43:23 [smiles]
pgroth: Will do summary/close blog post
15:43:26 [tlebo]
I addressed http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV-FAQ#Why_doesn.27t_PROV_use_FOAF.3F by deferring to the general design approach.
15:43:58 [Luc]
ack pg
15:44:17 [smiles]
pgroth: Anything sent to W3C mailing lists?
15:44:35 [Luc]
q?
15:44:37 [smiles]
ivan: Put on Twitter and Google+, but probably worth also sending to mailing list
15:44:45 [smiles]
pgroth: Will do that
15:44:47 [Luc]
q?
15:45:15 [Luc]
q?
15:45:18 [pgroth]
yes
15:45:32 [pgroth]
yes
15:45:49 [pgroth]
well probably the week before
15:46:16 [smiles]
Luc: Probably not a call next week, but will confirm this by email; probably will be a call before closing, TBC
15:46:24 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:46:24 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:46:25 [pgroth]
bye
15:46:25 [Zakim]
-tlebo
15:46:27 [pgroth]
and congrats
15:46:27 [Zakim]
-Satya_Sahoo
15:46:27 [Dong]
bye all
15:46:28 [smiles]
OK thanks!
15:46:28 [Zakim]
-jcheney
15:46:29 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:46:31 [Zakim]
-Luc
15:46:32 [pgroth]
if we don't talk again
15:46:33 [Zakim]
-TallTed
15:46:33 [Zakim]
-TomDN
15:46:34 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:46:36 [Zakim]
-pgroth
15:46:38 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aabb
15:46:50 [Zakim]
-smiles
15:49:52 [Zakim]
- +44.442.380.55.aacc
15:49:54 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
15:49:54 [Zakim]
Attendees were pgroth, Luc, tlebo, smiles, TallTed, Ivan, jcheney, +1.818.731.aaaa, TomDN, +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller], +44.442.380.55.aacc, Satya_Sahoo
15:58:24 [zednik]
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