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13:57:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/26-wcag2ict-irc
13:57:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:57:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:57:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:22 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:22 <trackbot> Date: 26 April 2013
13:57:28 <andisnow> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:57:34 <andisnow> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:57:39 <andisnow> scribenick: andisnow
13:57:48 <andisnow> regrets: Alex_Li
13:58:45 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:58:51 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:00:02 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:08 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:16 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:18 <Zakim> +Judy
14:00:24 <Zakim> +??P13
14:00:27 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:35 <Zakim> +??P14
14:00:53 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:00:58 <Loic> Zakim, ??P14 is me
14:00:59 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
14:01:26 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:01:27 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:01:28 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:01:28 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:01:41 <Kiran_Kaja> Kiran_Kaja has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:52 <andisnow> zakim, ??P13 is Mike_Pluke
14:01:53 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:02:33 <andisnow> agenda+ Glossary Terms - Part 6 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary6/results
14:03:01 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja
14:03:01 <Zakim> -Judy
14:03:11 <andisnow> agenda+ WCAG2ICT text for command line UIs https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/CMD-Line/results
14:03:40 <Zakim> +Judy
14:03:45 <andisnow> agenda+ Updating of user agent definition https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130423UA/results
14:04:21 <andisnow> agenda+ Glossary Terms - Part 5 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results
14:05:01 <andisnow> agenda+ Action items http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open
14:05:07 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:05:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Glossary Terms - Part 6 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary6/results" taken up [from andisnow]
14:06:37 <andisnow> some terms that were blocked by the conformance discussion actually are used in WCAG outside of the conformance section
14:07:05 <andisnow> Keep action-94 open and Andi will come back with another proposal next week
14:07:09 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:07:09 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WCAG2ICT text for command line UIs https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/CMD-Line/results" taken up [from andisnow]
14:09:07 <korn> q+
14:09:37 <korn> q-
14:09:39 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:10:09 <greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/command-line-interfaces
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14:11:48 <Zakim> -Judy
14:11:50 <Zakim> +Judy
14:12:28 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:13:26 <korn> q+
14:13:29 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:13:36 <David> +w
14:13:41 <David> q+
14:13:50 <andisnow> q+
14:15:49 <andisnow> ack korn
14:16:45 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:18:34 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:23:05 <korn> q+
14:23:25 <andisnow> ack david
14:23:27 <andisnow> ack andi
14:24:34 <korn> q-
14:27:25 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept Proposal # 6 for command line UIs
14:27:38 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:27:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Updating of user agent definition https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130423UA/results" taken up [from andisnow]
14:30:16 <andisnow> topic: Updating the "user agent" definition in the Key Terms section
14:31:36 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Reject first two proposals on this survey as they are actually not needed
14:31:56 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:32:07 <andisnow> topic: Clarifying the interpretation of "user agent" in WCAG INTENT when applied to software
14:32:09 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:32:59 <korn> q+
14:33:38 <andisnow> ack korn
14:34:48 <andisnow> q+
14:35:37 <andisnow> ack andi
14:37:13 <andisnow> q+
14:38:17 <andisnow> ack andi
14:40:55 <korn> +kinda
14:41:26 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Tentatively accept the proposed new Note 5 as edited by Gregg in the survey pending final review via the mailing list
14:41:29 <korn> (our version of silly walks?)
14:41:45 <andisnow> zakim, next item
14:41:45 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Glossary Terms - Part 5 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results" taken up [from andisnow]
14:42:39 <andisnow> topic: programmatically determined
14:43:12 <Loic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq2
14:45:07 <Loic> determined by software from author-supplied data provided in a way that different software, including assistive technologies, can extract and present this information to users in different modalities
14:45:30 <Loic> The definition of "programmatically determined" applies to non-web ICT as is, replacing "user agents" with "software"
14:47:09 <korn> This applies directly as written, and as described in the WCAG 2.0  glossary, replacing “Web page” with “non-Web document or software”. With these substitutions, it would read:
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14:48:11 <BBailey> q+
14:48:11 <andisnow> q+
14:48:23 <Loic> This applies directly as written, and as described in the WCAG 2.0  glossary, replacing "user agents" with "software". With these substitutions, it would read:
14:49:01 <Loic> determined by software from author-supplied data provided in a way that different software, including assistive technologies, can extract and present this information to users in different modalities
14:49:33 <andisnow> q-
14:49:52 <Loic> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft
14:50:02 <andisnow> ack bb
14:50:48 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept guidance on "programmatically determined" as amended in the meeting
14:51:36 <andisnow> Just to clarify, here is the guidance agreed to in the previous resolution: This applies directly as written, and as described in the WCAG 2.0  glossary, replacing "user agents" with "software". With these substitutions, it would read:
14:51:48 <andisnow> topic: programmatically set
14:52:17 <Loic> This applies directly as written, and as described in the WCAG 2.0  glossary, replacing "user agents" with "software". With these substitutions, it would read:
14:52:35 <Loic> programmatically set : set by software using methods that are supported by software, including assistive technologies
14:53:01 <andisnow> q+
14:53:12 <korn> q+
14:53:47 <andisnow> ack andisnow
14:54:04 <korn> Q?
14:55:17 <andisnow> ack korn
14:55:38 <andisnow> concern that we are moving away from the term "accessibility supported"
14:56:34 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:57:41 <andisnow> have to be careful not to lock this in to current techniques
14:57:44 <andisnow> ack gregg
14:58:04 <Loic> q+
15:00:48 <andisnow> ack loic
15:01:24 <Mike_P> q+
15:02:02 <andisnow> ack mike_P
15:04:09 <andisnow> Defer the "user agent" dependent definitions until we have closed on "accessibility supported"
15:04:09 <korn> Q+
15:04:18 <andisnow> ack korn
15:05:21 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: re-open "programmatically determined" until we close on "accessibility supported"
15:05:50 <andisnow> topic: input error
15:06:03 <Loic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/glossary5/results#xq8
15:08:16 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for "input error" as proposed: The definition of "input error" applies to non-web ICT as is, replacing "Web page" with "non-web document or software"
15:08:17 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/definitions-from-glossary/d---programmatically-determined
15:08:37 <andisnow> topic: set of web pages
15:09:35 <andisnow> q+
15:10:24 <andisnow> ack andi
15:11:13 <korn> Janitor here: please see https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft for "input error" capture.
15:11:14 <greggvanderheiden> For those success criteria that use the term "set of web pages" explicitly or implicitly (2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, and 3.2.4) WCAG2ICT provides specific replacement terms for "set of web pages".
15:11:17 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for "set of web pages" as amended by Gregg: For those success criteria that use the term "set of web pages" explicitly or implicitly (2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, and 3.2.4) WCAG2ICT provides specific replacement terms for "set of web pages".
15:12:02 <andisnow> action: Global edit to the document for how it refers to itself; i.e. WCAG2ICT or "this document", etc.
15:12:02 <trackbot> Error finding 'Global'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/users>.
15:12:43 <andisnow> action: Andi to propose a global edit to the document for how it refers to itself; i.e. WCAG2ICT or "this document", etc.
15:12:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Propose a global edit to the document for how it refers to itself; i.e. WCAG2ICT or "this document", etc. [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2013-05-03].
15:13:40 <andisnow> topic: web page
15:17:39 <andisnow> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft
15:20:48 <greggvanderheiden> additional Guideance
15:20:49 <greggvanderheiden> This applies directly as written, and as described in the WCAG 2.0 glossary, with the following note added (and formally numbering the first note):
15:20:50 <greggvanderheiden> Note 2: For those success criteria that use the term "set of web pages" explicitly or implicitly (2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, and 3.2.4) WCAG2ICT provides specific replacement terms for "set of web pages".
15:24:06 <Judy> Judy has left #wcag2ict
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15:25:32 <greggvanderheiden> For those success criteria that use the term "web page", WCAG2ICT provides specific replacement terms for "web page".
15:27:13 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for "web page" as amended by Gregg: For those success criteria that use the term "web page", WCAG2ICT provides specific replacement terms for "web page".
15:29:24 <korn> Example 2: A ribbon icon that saves the document that looks like an arrow pointing  into a folder in one case, and an arrow pointing into a hard drive in  another.  In this as well case, they would have the same functionality but would not be labeled consistently.
15:30:28 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal for "same functionality" with additional software example: Example 2: A ribbon icon that saves the document that looks like an arrow pointing  into a folder in one case, and an arrow pointing into a hard drive in  another.  In this as well case, they would have the same functionality but would not be labeled consistently.
15:32:11 <andisnow> q+
15:33:21 <Zakim> -Judy
15:33:32 <Loic> q+
15:33:54 <andisnow> ack andi
15:33:59 <korn> Glossary janitoring done.  Please see https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft
15:34:34 <andisnow> topic: Guidance on Principles and Guidelines
15:36:29 <andisnow> "In WCAG2ICT this principle/guideline serves the same purpose (framing and understanding) and applies as written. "
15:36:38 <greggvanderheiden> For guideline 3.2, the original is:
15:36:38 <greggvanderheiden> "Guideline 3.2 Predictable: Make Web pages appear and operate in predictable ways."
15:36:40 <greggvanderheiden> Applies as written  replacing "web pages" by "documents or software" resulting in:
15:36:41 <greggvanderheiden> "Guideline 3.2 Predictable: Make documents or software appear and operate in predictable ways."
15:36:42 <greggvanderheiden> And for principle 4 and guideline 4.1  we could replace "user agents, including assistive technologies" by "accessibility services of software and assistive technology". The result would be:
15:36:43 <greggvanderheiden> Principle 4: Robust - Content must be robust enough that it can be interpreted reliably by a wide variety of accessibility services of software and assistive technology.
15:36:44 <greggvanderheiden> Guideline 4.1 Compatible: Maximize compatibility with current and future accessibility services of software and assistive technology.
15:36:49 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:39:00 <Zakim> -Loic
15:39:19 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/glossary-edits-post-2nd-public-draft
15:39:40 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/c---conformance-all
15:40:07 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:40:13 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/comparison-to-m376/wcag-changes-summary-from-comparison-to-m376-draft
15:40:26 <korn> And definitely https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/command-line-interfaces
15:42:30 <andisnow> zakim, bye
15:42:30 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Gregg_Vanderheiden, Judy, David_MacDonald, Loic, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Peter_Korn, Mike_Pluke, Kiran_Kaja, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller
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15:42:35 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:43:00 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/26-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
15:43:47 <Mike_P> I am here - I unplugged my mic and it no longer seems to work
15:45:57 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/edits-for-michael-post-2nd-public-draft
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