IRC log of prov on 2013-04-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:38:22 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #prov
- 14:38:22 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/25-prov-irc
- 14:38:24 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:38:24 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #prov
- 14:38:26 [Luc]
- Zakim, this will be PROV
- 14:38:26 [Zakim]
- ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
- 14:38:26 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be PROV
- 14:38:27 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
- 14:38:27 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 April 2013
- 14:38:28 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
- 14:38:36 [Luc]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.25
- 14:38:47 [Luc]
- Chair: Luc Moreau
- 14:38:57 [Luc]
- Scribe: Paolo Missier
- 14:39:04 [Luc]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:39:27 [Luc]
- Regrets: Curt Tilmes
- 14:55:40 [smiles]
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- 14:56:41 [pgroth]
- pgroth has joined #prov
- 14:56:41 [Zakim]
- SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
- 14:56:48 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 14:56:57 [smiles]
- zakim, ??P25 is me
- 14:56:57 [Zakim]
- +smiles; got it
- 14:57:18 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:57:26 [pgroth]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
- 14:57:26 [Zakim]
- +pgroth; got it
- 14:57:49 [Paoo]
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- 14:58:04 [Zakim]
- +Jutta
- 14:58:22 [Paolo]
- Paolo has joined #prov
- 14:59:33 [Zakim]
- + +44.238.059.aaaa
- 14:59:47 [CraigTrim]
- CraigTrim has joined #prov
- 14:59:48 [Luc]
- zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
- 14:59:48 [Zakim]
- +Luc; got it
- 15:00:13 [Luc]
- hi paolo, everything is set up. Are you still ok to scribe?
- 15:00:18 [Zakim]
- + +1.661.382.aabb
- 15:00:27 [jcheney]
- jcheney has joined #prov
- 15:00:30 [CraigTrim]
- zakim, +aabb is me
- 15:00:30 [Zakim]
- sorry, CraigTrim, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'
- 15:00:52 [Zakim]
- +jcheney
- 15:00:55 [Luc]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:00:55 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney
- 15:00:56 [tlebo]
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- 15:00:57 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jcheney, CraigTrim, Paolo, pgroth, smiles, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, TallTed, stain, GK-ALT, trackbot
- 15:01:10 [CraigTrim]
- Zakim, aabb is me
- 15:01:10 [Zakim]
- +CraigTrim; got it
- 15:01:15 [hook]
- hook has joined #prov
- 15:01:16 [Zakim]
- -smiles
- 15:01:20 [Zakim]
- + +1.315.330.aacc
- 15:01:30 [tlebo]
- zakim, I am aacc
- 15:01:33 [Zakim]
- +tlebo; got it
- 15:01:57 [dgarijo]
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- 15:02:04 [zednik]
- zednik has joined #prov
- 15:02:05 [Zakim]
- + +1.818.731.aadd
- 15:02:08 [Luc]
- topic: admin
- 15:02:17 [Luc]
- proposed: approve last week's minutes
- 15:02:21 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:02:24 [Luc]
- https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/prov/2013-04-18
- 15:02:28 [christine]
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- 15:02:31 [Zakim]
- +??P38
- 15:02:33 [Zakim]
- +??P37
- 15:02:35 [Paolo]
- +1
- 15:02:39 [CraigTrim]
- +1
- 15:02:40 [dgarijo]
- Zakim, ??P38 is me
- 15:02:40 [Zakim]
- +dgarijo; got it
- 15:02:42 [jcheney]
- +1
- 15:02:43 [dgarijo]
- +1
- 15:02:43 [hook]
- +1
- 15:02:47 [christine]
- Zakim, ??P38 is christine
- 15:02:47 [Zakim]
- I already had ??P38 as dgarijo, christine
- 15:02:48 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:02:58 [Dong]
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- 15:03:03 [christine]
- Zakim, ??P37 is christine
- 15:03:03 [Zakim]
- +christine; got it
- 15:03:13 [Luc]
- ACCEPTED: last week's minutes
- 15:03:14 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.a]
- 15:03:26 [Luc]
- topic: status
- 15:03:34 [khalidBelhajjame]
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- 15:03:56 [dgarijo]
- :)
- 15:03:57 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:04:06 [Paolo]
- Luc: pub request sent to webmaster, all docs are now ready for publication.
- 15:04:10 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.aa]
- 15:04:20 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:04:23 [khalidBelhajjame]
- zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
- 15:04:24 [Zakim]
- +khalidBelhajjame; got it
- 15:04:31 [Paolo]
- Luc: editors can find their docs at their final location if they need tomake final-final (final) check
- 15:04:53 [Paolo]
- pgroth: last minute changes to provenance of docs
- 15:04:59 [pgroth]
- ack pgroth
- 15:05:08 [Luc]
- ack pg
- 15:05:09 [Paolo]
- Luc: can still ask for minor changes
- 15:05:23 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 15:05:32 [Paolo]
- pgroth: issue was that rel link was missing
- 15:05:51 [zednik]
- rel link will need to be added to PROV-XML as well
- 15:05:53 [pgroth]
- :-) :-)
- 15:05:57 [Dong]
- Zakim, ??P0 is me
- 15:05:57 [Zakim]
- +Dong; got it
- 15:06:00 [Luc]
- topic: Provenance Working Group End Date
- 15:06:04 [dgarijo]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-prov-dc-20130430/ ----> 404 :(((
- 15:06:05 [Paolo]
- Luc: this means we have finished our job!
- 15:06:39 [Zakim]
- +Satya_Sahoo
- 15:06:49 [satya]
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- 15:06:55 [pgroth]
- @zednik - you need to inform ivan
- 15:07:07 [Paolo]
- zednik: there is currently no link to prov of XML note -- this will be done shortly
- 15:07:08 [zednik]
- @pgroth, thanks
- 15:07:30 [pgroth]
- @zednik you need to tell ivan to do the redirect
- 15:07:32 [Paolo]
- Luc: @dgarijo should be 2013, not 2012
- 15:07:39 [TomDN]
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- 15:07:41 [dgarijo]
- ahhhhh thanks. I just took it from the email :P
- 15:07:43 [Zakim]
- +TomDN
- 15:07:46 [dgarijo]
- it works
- 15:07:50 [TomDN]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:07:50 [Zakim]
- TomDN should now be muted
- 15:08:03 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:08:05 [SamCoppens]
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- 15:08:06 [Paolo]
- Luc: final tidy up job with pgroth to be completed soon
- 15:08:08 [smiles]
- Fine by me
- 15:08:12 [Paolo]
- Luc: feedback?
- 15:08:17 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:08:26 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:08:30 [SamCoppens]
- zakim, I am with TomDN
- 15:08:30 [Zakim]
- +SamCoppens; got it
- 15:09:12 [pgroth]
- yeah we need help :-)
- 15:09:20 [Luc]
- ack pg
- 15:09:35 [Paolo]
- Luc: correct, Luc and pgroth actually looking for help for the remaining tasks
- 15:09:48 [smiles]
- I can do something next week, but am not available the week after
- 15:09:54 [satya]
- what are the tasks?
- 15:10:25 [pgroth]
- agreed
- 15:10:26 [Paolo]
- pgroth: do we still need calls?
- 15:10:34 [pgroth]
- satya asks a good question
- 15:11:15 [Paolo]
- Luc: decisions on scheduling remaining work and deciding on end date are circular ...
- 15:11:17 [pgroth]
- I would say May 16
- 15:11:50 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:12:09 [Paolo]
- pgroth: remaining tasks are indicated in the agenda
- 15:12:16 [pgroth]
- good with me
- 15:12:27 [Luc]
- topic: provenance of documents
- 15:12:39 [Paolo]
- Luc: task: provenance of documents
- 15:13:03 [Paolo]
- Luc: editors make sure there is a link to prov in their docs, and that such provenance has content
- 15:13:05 [Luc]
- https://raw.github.com/lucmoreau/ProvToolbox/newschema/prov-n/src/test/resources/prov/prov-family.provn
- 15:13:38 [pgroth]
- I will use it for prov-overview and prov-aq
- 15:13:54 [Paolo]
- Luc: the link above should cover most docs. Asking editors what they intend to do
- 15:14:26 [Paolo]
- dgarijo: prov-dc: added statements to provenance of prov-dc
- 15:14:47 [TomDN]
- how would that work with the staged documents with their has_provenance url? redirect all the urls to the same provenance file?
- 15:15:01 [Paolo]
- dgarijo: going to use whatever prov doc is more complete
- 15:15:04 [pgroth]
- @TomDN yes that sounds good
- 15:15:50 [Paolo]
- Luc: @dgarijo please check that the prov family file is correct from your POV
- 15:15:55 [pgroth]
- probably zednick
- 15:16:33 [tlebo]
- @zednick, that goes to https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/provenance right?
- 15:16:36 [Paolo]
- zednik: prov file is in turtle atm. using own prov file for prov-XML
- 15:16:59 [pgroth]
- @tlebo it should go in something like prov-xml.ttl in that directory
- 15:17:01 [Paolo]
- zednik: will check prov family file and make sure it is correct for prov-xml
- 15:17:35 [Paolo]
- jcheney: prov-family looks file for both prov-constraints and prov-sem
- 15:17:43 [Paolo]
- s/file/fine
- 15:18:00 [Paolo]
- pgroth: will use prov-family for prov-AQ and prov-overview
- 15:18:04 [Dong]
- Provenance for prov-implementations (www.w3.org/2011/prov/provenance/prov-implementations) has been linked to the staged document.
- 15:18:13 [Paolo]
- pgroth: requested one change for prov-AQ
- 15:18:27 [Dong]
- I've check the prov-family file for prov-implementations part. All is good.
- 15:18:37 [TomDN]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:18:37 [Zakim]
- TomDN should no longer be muted
- 15:18:48 [Paolo]
- TomDN: will use prov-family
- 15:18:59 [Paolo]
- TomDN: content seems fine
- 15:19:03 [Dong]
- I'm also happy to use the prov-family file as well, but not sure how.
- 15:19:06 [TomDN]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:19:06 [Zakim]
- TomDN should now be muted
- 15:19:23 [Paolo]
- smiles: checked prov-family, fine and will be used
- 15:19:31 [Paolo]
- smiles: for prov-primer
- 15:19:38 [tlebo]
- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/provenance/prov-o.ttl
- 15:19:58 [Paolo]
- tlebo: prov-o has been updating its own file, would like to tie it into the prov-family
- 15:20:07 [Paolo]
- tlebo: is there a prov-o version of it?
- 15:20:15 [Paolo]
- Luc: yes, coming up
- 15:20:36 [Paolo]
- tlebo: if there is an RDF version then will blend own with prov-family
- 15:20:55 [Paolo]
- tlebo: not yet reviewed prov-family for content
- 15:21:09 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:21:15 [Paolo]
- Luc: prov-family does not conver prov-implementation
- 15:21:18 [pgroth]
- what?
- 15:21:21 [Luc]
- poor quality!
- 15:21:26 [Paolo]
- Dong: (can't hear, sorry)
- 15:21:31 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.aa]
- 15:21:37 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:21:43 [pgroth]
- maybe I can talk
- 15:21:49 [Paolo]
- @dong: can you please type
- 15:22:24 [Dong]
- You already have information on prov-implementations in the prov-family file
- 15:22:31 [Dong]
- I'm happy to use it
- 15:22:34 [Paolo]
- pgroth: should use prov-family for prov-implementation
- 15:22:39 [pgroth]
- sorry
- 15:22:53 [pgroth]
- ack pgroth
- 15:23:25 [Paolo]
- Luc: prov-xml, prov-o, prov-dc will have their own provenance, others will use prov-family
- 15:24:00 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:24:03 [Paolo]
- Luc: RDF generated by toolbox from prov-n not very friendly, also some comments will be lost. Looking for human editors of the generated prov-o
- 15:24:36 [stain]
- cwm can make it quite pretty
- 15:24:57 [Paolo]
- Luc: rdf is correct but not very tidy.
- 15:25:08 [Paolo]
- tlebo: offering to look at it
- 15:25:29 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:25:43 [Paolo]
- Luc: anyone keen to look at the generated XML file? may require some editing after gen
- 15:25:52 [pgroth]
- maybe one of the xml guys?
- 15:26:08 [Paolo]
- zednik: will do
- 15:26:41 [Paolo]
- Luc: will upload suitable version of prov-family to hg, then gen xml and rdf and send it on
- 15:26:41 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:26:47 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:28:03 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:28:08 [pgroth]
- ack pgroth
- 15:28:10 [Luc]
- ack pg
- 15:28:11 [Paolo]
- pgroth: will use redirect to separate the prov files for the different docs (modulo format)
- 15:28:23 [Luc]
- Topic: Finalizing /ns
- 15:29:31 [Paolo]
- tlebo: on OWL file: updating old scripts -- will require some time
- 15:29:48 [pgroth]
- q+
- 15:30:01 [Paolo]
- tlebo: need offline discussion to figure out what needs to be done
- 15:30:19 [Paolo]
- Luc: need proper OWL files for pub on Tue
- 15:30:42 [Luc]
- ack pg
- 15:31:17 [Paolo]
- pgroth: each doc where new terms are defined need to supply them into the "namespace" dir, supplied as Turtle
- 15:31:53 [Paolo]
- pgroth: will email to clarify what needs to be done
- 15:32:57 [TomDN]
- PROV-Dictionary owl is at http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-dictionary-20130430/prov-dictionary.owl
- 15:33:03 [Luc]
- @tlebo, could you write the ttl file for prov-links
- 15:33:54 [Paolo]
- Luc: there is pressure to have the content of the file by Tue
- 15:35:30 [TomDN]
- I see
- 15:35:40 [Paolo]
- Luc: we agreed not to have schema/owl files in the TR dir, because they are frozen
- 15:35:43 [TomDN]
- yes
- 15:35:46 [stain]
- I think it's OK that there IS an OWL file there as long as it's not the one pointed to :)
- 15:35:50 [tlebo]
- @luc, yes, I'll lead the owl portions of links.
- 15:35:54 [Paolo]
- pgroth: but where do these point to?
- 15:36:01 [TomDN]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:36:01 [Zakim]
- TomDN should no longer be muted
- 15:36:06 [TomDN]
- +q
- 15:37:05 [Paolo]
- pgroth: all files should be in ns
- 15:37:34 [Paolo]
- pgroth: the copy in TR should not be pointed to in the doc
- 15:37:47 [Paolo]
- Luc: those copies should be removed
- 15:38:05 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:38:13 [Paolo]
- Luc: they make create confusion in the future
- 15:38:27 [TomDN]
- will do for prov-dict
- 15:38:57 [Paolo]
- Luc: @TomDN please make the change
- 15:39:04 [Paolo]
- TomDN: will do for prov-dictionary
- 15:39:39 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:39:46 [Luc]
- ack to
- 15:40:03 [TomDN]
- +q
- 15:40:40 [TomDN]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-dictionary-20130430/#dictionary-xml-schema
- 15:40:47 [Paolo]
- TomDN: just checked the link, the schema is in TR for prov-XML?
- 15:41:10 [TomDN]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-xml-20130430/schema/prov-core.xsd
- 15:42:23 [Paolo]
- Luc: @ TomDN @ zednik need to make your changes
- 15:42:52 [Paolo]
- zednik: where should the schema directory go?
- 15:42:59 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:43:00 [Paolo]
- (sorry lost audio)
- 15:44:03 [TomDN]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:44:03 [Zakim]
- TomDN should now be muted
- 15:44:10 [dgarijo]
- for the moment everything is done via Ivan
- 15:45:24 [TomDN]
- ok, I'll do it right after the call
- 15:45:56 [Paolo]
- brb
- 15:46:01 [Zakim]
- -Jutta
- 15:46:20 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.aaa]
- 15:46:38 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:46:42 [Paolo]
- (back)
- 15:46:52 [TomDN]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:46:52 [Zakim]
- TomDN should no longer be muted
- 15:46:53 [Luc]
- ack to
- 15:47:10 [TomDN]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:47:10 [Zakim]
- TomDN should now be muted
- 15:47:35 [Paolo]
- pgroth: should make a HTML version of our ns
- 15:47:54 [Paolo]
- pgroth: easier to do when we have the complete integrated version
- 15:48:58 [Paolo]
- pgroth: work on the HTML will not start immediately, would appreciate help on it
- 15:49:06 [tlebo]
- q+
- 15:49:23 [Paolo]
- Luc: anyone familiar with tools for ttl -> html?
- 15:49:36 [Luc]
- ack tl
- 15:49:46 [stain]
- I thought we were going to keep the HTML as it is now; as we don't know if you want an XML schema or ontology or what
- 15:50:15 [Paolo]
- pgroth: do we want a page with the actual defs for each term?
- 15:50:43 [pgroth]
- that was the idea
- 15:51:38 [Paolo]
- tlebo: converting ttl -> html should not be approach. instead reuse Luc's def. maker
- 15:51:40 [stain]
- for http://purl.org/pav/ I did a simple XSLT to just list the terms and have hyperlinks to where they are defined. But we would have terms from different serializations
- 15:51:42 [jcheney]
- http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/ just has links to the relevant recs and working group charters...
- 15:52:01 [Luc]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#prov-dm-to-prov-o-and-prov-n
- 15:52:14 [Paolo]
- Luc: could this be a starting point
- 15:52:18 [Paolo]
- pgroth: yes
- 15:52:26 [Dong]
- Dong has joined #prov
- 15:52:49 [tlebo]
- q+
- 15:53:15 [pgroth]
- yes
- 15:53:37 [Paolo]
- tlebo: not the right way to go
- 15:54:21 [Paolo]
- Luc: did not mean that the table should be what we will have. but each line has essentially the links we need
- 15:54:55 [pgroth]
- ye[
- 15:54:56 [TomDN]
- @pgroth: so where do the files under /namespace end up? http://www.w3.org/ns/?
- 15:55:00 [Paolo]
- Luc: in addition to the classes, we also need properties, so more work to do
- 15:55:13 [Paolo]
- Luc: HTML ont starting until next week
- 15:55:16 [Paolo]
- pgroth: correct
- 15:55:23 [Paolo]
- s/ont/not
- 15:55:43 [christine]
- apologies - have to chair a call on the hour
- 15:55:48 [Luc]
- topic: Wiki
- 15:55:52 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 15:56:13 [Paolo]
- Luc: need to tidy up the prov wiki, and contribute to the semweb wiki
- 15:57:06 [Paolo]
- pgroth: on main prov wiki: need to clean up news and active topics.
- 15:57:42 [Paolo]
- pgroth: from semweb wiki Remove outreach info, layout conventions...
- 15:57:44 [satya]
- sorry, I have to leave now
- 15:57:51 [Zakim]
- -Satya_Sahoo
- 15:57:56 [Paolo]
- Luc: who is taking the lead
- 15:58:21 [Paolo]
- Luc: will do an edit on tue to update elements on the front page
- 15:58:58 [Paolo]
- pgroth: (correction) will *move* Remove outreach info, layout conventions to semweb wiki from main prov wiki
- 15:59:26 [Paolo]
- pgroth: nothing will be deleted
- 16:00:00 [smiles]
- If there are specific things for the Wiki that you can pass to me, I can help (except for the week of May 4-10)
- 16:00:01 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:00:11 [tlebo]
- q-
- 16:00:11 [Luc]
- ack tl
- 16:00:21 [Luc]
- Topic: dissemination/announcement
- 16:00:43 [Paolo]
- Luc: any dissemination plans?
- 16:00:48 [dgarijo]
- I got a tutorial accepted in the DC conference in Lisbonne
- 16:00:59 [dgarijo]
- with Kai
- 16:01:01 [pgroth]
- there are two blog posts in the queue
- 16:01:04 [Paolo]
- Luc: will blog on the prov family page -- describing provenance of documents
- 16:01:09 [Paolo]
- Luc: after rec release
- 16:01:22 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller.aa]
- 16:01:54 [Paolo]
- pgroth: will post the blogs whenever more appropriate
- 16:02:39 [jcheney]
- q+
- 16:02:45 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:02:50 [Paolo]
- Paolo: I will give some of the EDBT tutorial to our School in an internal seminar
- 16:03:03 [pgroth]
- q?
- 16:03:08 [Luc]
- ack jc
- 16:03:49 [Paolo]
- jcheney: there was a outreach task force, should we call on that to report on the results of the WG?
- 16:04:08 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:04:14 [Paolo]
- Luc: should leaders of task force to go back to the original respondandts?
- 16:04:18 [jcheney]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report
- 16:04:53 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:05:06 [Paolo]
- Luc: contact the leaders of the dissemination task force
- 16:05:35 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:05:37 [khalidBelhajjame]
- bye
- 16:05:38 [Zakim]
- -tlebo
- 16:05:40 [Zakim]
- -pgroth
- 16:05:40 [Zakim]
- -jcheney
- 16:05:40 [pgroth]
- pgroth has left #prov
- 16:05:42 [Zakim]
- -khalidBelhajjame
- 16:05:42 [Zakim]
- -dgarijo
- 16:05:43 [Dong]
- bye all
- 16:05:48 [Zakim]
- -TomDN
- 16:05:49 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller.aaa]
- 16:05:55 [Zakim]
- - +1.818.731.aadd
- 16:06:01 [Zakim]
- -Luc
- 16:07:02 [Zakim]
- -christine
- 16:08:04 [Zakim]
- -CraigTrim
- 16:09:44 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller.a]
- 16:15:38 [Zakim]
- -Dong
- 16:15:39 [Zakim]
- SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
- 16:15:39 [Zakim]
- Attendees were smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney, CraigTrim, +1.315.330.aacc, tlebo, +1.818.731.aadd, [IPcaller], dgarijo, christine, khalidBelhajjame, Dong,
- 16:15:39 [Zakim]
- ... Satya_Sahoo, TomDN, SamCoppens