IRC log of prov on 2013-04-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:38:22 [RRSAgent]
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14:38:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:38:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:38:24 [Zakim]
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14:38:26 [Luc]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:38:26 [Zakim]
ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
14:38:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:38:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:38:27 [trackbot]
Date: 25 April 2013
14:38:28 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
14:38:36 [Luc]
14:38:47 [Luc]
Chair: Luc Moreau
14:38:57 [Luc]
Scribe: Paolo Missier
14:39:04 [Luc]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:39:27 [Luc]
Regrets: Curt Tilmes
14:55:40 [smiles]
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14:56:41 [pgroth]
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14:56:41 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:56:48 [Zakim]
14:56:57 [smiles]
zakim, ??P25 is me
14:56:57 [Zakim]
+smiles; got it
14:57:18 [Zakim]
14:57:26 [pgroth]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:57:26 [Zakim]
+pgroth; got it
14:57:49 [Paoo]
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14:58:04 [Zakim]
14:58:22 [Paolo]
Paolo has joined #prov
14:59:33 [Zakim]
+ +44.238.059.aaaa
14:59:47 [CraigTrim]
CraigTrim has joined #prov
14:59:48 [Luc]
zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:59:48 [Zakim]
+Luc; got it
15:00:13 [Luc]
hi paolo, everything is set up. Are you still ok to scribe?
15:00:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.661.382.aabb
15:00:27 [jcheney]
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15:00:30 [CraigTrim]
zakim, +aabb is me
15:00:30 [Zakim]
sorry, CraigTrim, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'
15:00:52 [Zakim]
15:00:55 [Luc]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney
15:00:56 [tlebo]
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15:00:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jcheney, CraigTrim, Paolo, pgroth, smiles, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, TallTed, stain, GK-ALT, trackbot
15:01:10 [CraigTrim]
Zakim, aabb is me
15:01:10 [Zakim]
+CraigTrim; got it
15:01:15 [hook]
hook has joined #prov
15:01:16 [Zakim]
15:01:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.315.330.aacc
15:01:30 [tlebo]
zakim, I am aacc
15:01:33 [Zakim]
+tlebo; got it
15:01:57 [dgarijo]
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15:02:04 [zednik]
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15:02:05 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aadd
15:02:08 [Luc]
topic: admin
15:02:17 [Luc]
proposed: approve last week's minutes
15:02:21 [Zakim]
15:02:24 [Luc]
15:02:28 [christine]
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15:02:31 [Zakim]
15:02:33 [Zakim]
15:02:35 [Paolo]
15:02:39 [CraigTrim]
15:02:40 [dgarijo]
Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:02:40 [Zakim]
+dgarijo; got it
15:02:42 [jcheney]
15:02:43 [dgarijo]
15:02:43 [hook]
15:02:47 [christine]
Zakim, ??P38 is christine
15:02:47 [Zakim]
I already had ??P38 as dgarijo, christine
15:02:48 [smiles]
15:02:58 [Dong]
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15:03:03 [christine]
Zakim, ??P37 is christine
15:03:03 [Zakim]
+christine; got it
15:03:13 [Luc]
ACCEPTED: last week's minutes
15:03:14 [Zakim]
15:03:26 [Luc]
topic: status
15:03:34 [khalidBelhajjame]
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15:03:56 [dgarijo]
15:03:57 [pgroth]
15:04:06 [Paolo]
Luc: pub request sent to webmaster, all docs are now ready for publication.
15:04:10 [Zakim]
15:04:20 [Luc]
15:04:23 [khalidBelhajjame]
zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
15:04:24 [Zakim]
+khalidBelhajjame; got it
15:04:31 [Paolo]
Luc: editors can find their docs at their final location if they need tomake final-final (final) check
15:04:53 [Paolo]
pgroth: last minute changes to provenance of docs
15:04:59 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:05:08 [Luc]
ack pg
15:05:09 [Paolo]
Luc: can still ask for minor changes
15:05:23 [Zakim]
15:05:32 [Paolo]
pgroth: issue was that rel link was missing
15:05:51 [zednik]
rel link will need to be added to PROV-XML as well
15:05:53 [pgroth]
:-) :-)
15:05:57 [Dong]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
15:05:57 [Zakim]
+Dong; got it
15:06:00 [Luc]
topic: Provenance Working Group End Date
15:06:04 [dgarijo] ----> 404 :(((
15:06:05 [Paolo]
Luc: this means we have finished our job!
15:06:39 [Zakim]
15:06:49 [satya]
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15:06:55 [pgroth]
@zednik - you need to inform ivan
15:07:07 [Paolo]
zednik: there is currently no link to prov of XML note -- this will be done shortly
15:07:08 [zednik]
@pgroth, thanks
15:07:30 [pgroth]
@zednik you need to tell ivan to do the redirect
15:07:32 [Paolo]
Luc: @dgarijo should be 2013, not 2012
15:07:39 [TomDN]
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15:07:41 [dgarijo]
ahhhhh thanks. I just took it from the email :P
15:07:43 [Zakim]
15:07:46 [dgarijo]
it works
15:07:50 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:07:50 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:08:03 [Luc]
15:08:05 [SamCoppens]
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15:08:06 [Paolo]
Luc: final tidy up job with pgroth to be completed soon
15:08:08 [smiles]
Fine by me
15:08:12 [Paolo]
Luc: feedback?
15:08:17 [pgroth]
15:08:26 [Luc]
15:08:30 [SamCoppens]
zakim, I am with TomDN
15:08:30 [Zakim]
+SamCoppens; got it
15:09:12 [pgroth]
yeah we need help :-)
15:09:20 [Luc]
ack pg
15:09:35 [Paolo]
Luc: correct, Luc and pgroth actually looking for help for the remaining tasks
15:09:48 [smiles]
I can do something next week, but am not available the week after
15:09:54 [satya]
what are the tasks?
15:10:25 [pgroth]
15:10:26 [Paolo]
pgroth: do we still need calls?
15:10:34 [pgroth]
satya asks a good question
15:11:15 [Paolo]
Luc: decisions on scheduling remaining work and deciding on end date are circular ...
15:11:17 [pgroth]
I would say May 16
15:11:50 [Luc]
15:12:09 [Paolo]
pgroth: remaining tasks are indicated in the agenda
15:12:16 [pgroth]
good with me
15:12:27 [Luc]
topic: provenance of documents
15:12:39 [Paolo]
Luc: task: provenance of documents
15:13:03 [Paolo]
Luc: editors make sure there is a link to prov in their docs, and that such provenance has content
15:13:05 [Luc]
15:13:38 [pgroth]
I will use it for prov-overview and prov-aq
15:13:54 [Paolo]
Luc: the link above should cover most docs. Asking editors what they intend to do
15:14:26 [Paolo]
dgarijo: prov-dc: added statements to provenance of prov-dc
15:14:47 [TomDN]
how would that work with the staged documents with their has_provenance url? redirect all the urls to the same provenance file?
15:15:01 [Paolo]
dgarijo: going to use whatever prov doc is more complete
15:15:04 [pgroth]
@TomDN yes that sounds good
15:15:50 [Paolo]
Luc: @dgarijo please check that the prov family file is correct from your POV
15:15:55 [pgroth]
probably zednick
15:16:33 [tlebo]
@zednick, that goes to right?
15:16:36 [Paolo]
zednik: prov file is in turtle atm. using own prov file for prov-XML
15:16:59 [pgroth]
@tlebo it should go in something like prov-xml.ttl in that directory
15:17:01 [Paolo]
zednik: will check prov family file and make sure it is correct for prov-xml
15:17:35 [Paolo]
jcheney: prov-family looks file for both prov-constraints and prov-sem
15:17:43 [Paolo]
15:18:00 [Paolo]
pgroth: will use prov-family for prov-AQ and prov-overview
15:18:04 [Dong]
Provenance for prov-implementations ( has been linked to the staged document.
15:18:13 [Paolo]
pgroth: requested one change for prov-AQ
15:18:27 [Dong]
I've check the prov-family file for prov-implementations part. All is good.
15:18:37 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:18:37 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:18:48 [Paolo]
TomDN: will use prov-family
15:18:59 [Paolo]
TomDN: content seems fine
15:19:03 [Dong]
I'm also happy to use the prov-family file as well, but not sure how.
15:19:06 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:19:06 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:19:23 [Paolo]
smiles: checked prov-family, fine and will be used
15:19:31 [Paolo]
smiles: for prov-primer
15:19:38 [tlebo]
15:19:58 [Paolo]
tlebo: prov-o has been updating its own file, would like to tie it into the prov-family
15:20:07 [Paolo]
tlebo: is there a prov-o version of it?
15:20:15 [Paolo]
Luc: yes, coming up
15:20:36 [Paolo]
tlebo: if there is an RDF version then will blend own with prov-family
15:20:55 [Paolo]
tlebo: not yet reviewed prov-family for content
15:21:09 [pgroth]
15:21:15 [Paolo]
Luc: prov-family does not conver prov-implementation
15:21:18 [pgroth]
15:21:21 [Luc]
poor quality!
15:21:26 [Paolo]
Dong: (can't hear, sorry)
15:21:31 [Zakim]
15:21:37 [pgroth]
15:21:43 [pgroth]
maybe I can talk
15:21:49 [Paolo]
@dong: can you please type
15:22:24 [Dong]
You already have information on prov-implementations in the prov-family file
15:22:31 [Dong]
I'm happy to use it
15:22:34 [Paolo]
pgroth: should use prov-family for prov-implementation
15:22:39 [pgroth]
15:22:53 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:23:25 [Paolo]
Luc: prov-xml, prov-o, prov-dc will have their own provenance, others will use prov-family
15:24:00 [Luc]
15:24:03 [Paolo]
Luc: RDF generated by toolbox from prov-n not very friendly, also some comments will be lost. Looking for human editors of the generated prov-o
15:24:36 [stain]
cwm can make it quite pretty
15:24:57 [Paolo]
Luc: rdf is correct but not very tidy.
15:25:08 [Paolo]
tlebo: offering to look at it
15:25:29 [Luc]
15:25:43 [Paolo]
Luc: anyone keen to look at the generated XML file? may require some editing after gen
15:25:52 [pgroth]
maybe one of the xml guys?
15:26:08 [Paolo]
zednik: will do
15:26:41 [Paolo]
Luc: will upload suitable version of prov-family to hg, then gen xml and rdf and send it on
15:26:41 [Luc]
15:26:47 [pgroth]
15:28:03 [Luc]
15:28:08 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:28:10 [Luc]
ack pg
15:28:11 [Paolo]
pgroth: will use redirect to separate the prov files for the different docs (modulo format)
15:28:23 [Luc]
Topic: Finalizing /ns
15:29:31 [Paolo]
tlebo: on OWL file: updating old scripts -- will require some time
15:29:48 [pgroth]
15:30:01 [Paolo]
tlebo: need offline discussion to figure out what needs to be done
15:30:19 [Paolo]
Luc: need proper OWL files for pub on Tue
15:30:42 [Luc]
ack pg
15:31:17 [Paolo]
pgroth: each doc where new terms are defined need to supply them into the "namespace" dir, supplied as Turtle
15:31:53 [Paolo]
pgroth: will email to clarify what needs to be done
15:32:57 [TomDN]
PROV-Dictionary owl is at
15:33:03 [Luc]
@tlebo, could you write the ttl file for prov-links
15:33:54 [Paolo]
Luc: there is pressure to have the content of the file by Tue
15:35:30 [TomDN]
I see
15:35:40 [Paolo]
Luc: we agreed not to have schema/owl files in the TR dir, because they are frozen
15:35:43 [TomDN]
15:35:46 [stain]
I think it's OK that there IS an OWL file there as long as it's not the one pointed to :)
15:35:50 [tlebo]
@luc, yes, I'll lead the owl portions of links.
15:35:54 [Paolo]
pgroth: but where do these point to?
15:36:01 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:36:01 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:36:06 [TomDN]
15:37:05 [Paolo]
pgroth: all files should be in ns
15:37:34 [Paolo]
pgroth: the copy in TR should not be pointed to in the doc
15:37:47 [Paolo]
Luc: those copies should be removed
15:38:05 [Luc]
15:38:13 [Paolo]
Luc: they make create confusion in the future
15:38:27 [TomDN]
will do for prov-dict
15:38:57 [Paolo]
Luc: @TomDN please make the change
15:39:04 [Paolo]
TomDN: will do for prov-dictionary
15:39:39 [Luc]
15:39:46 [Luc]
ack to
15:40:03 [TomDN]
15:40:40 [TomDN]
15:40:47 [Paolo]
TomDN: just checked the link, the schema is in TR for prov-XML?
15:41:10 [TomDN]
15:42:23 [Paolo]
Luc: @ TomDN @ zednik need to make your changes
15:42:52 [Paolo]
zednik: where should the schema directory go?
15:42:59 [Luc]
15:43:00 [Paolo]
(sorry lost audio)
15:44:03 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:44:03 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:44:10 [dgarijo]
for the moment everything is done via Ivan
15:45:24 [TomDN]
ok, I'll do it right after the call
15:45:56 [Paolo]
15:46:01 [Zakim]
15:46:20 [Zakim]
15:46:38 [Luc]
15:46:42 [Paolo]
15:46:52 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:46:52 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:46:53 [Luc]
ack to
15:47:10 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:47:10 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:47:35 [Paolo]
pgroth: should make a HTML version of our ns
15:47:54 [Paolo]
pgroth: easier to do when we have the complete integrated version
15:48:58 [Paolo]
pgroth: work on the HTML will not start immediately, would appreciate help on it
15:49:06 [tlebo]
15:49:23 [Paolo]
Luc: anyone familiar with tools for ttl -> html?
15:49:36 [Luc]
ack tl
15:49:46 [stain]
I thought we were going to keep the HTML as it is now; as we don't know if you want an XML schema or ontology or what
15:50:15 [Paolo]
pgroth: do we want a page with the actual defs for each term?
15:50:43 [pgroth]
that was the idea
15:51:38 [Paolo]
tlebo: converting ttl -> html should not be approach. instead reuse Luc's def. maker
15:51:40 [stain]
for I did a simple XSLT to just list the terms and have hyperlinks to where they are defined. But we would have terms from different serializations
15:51:42 [jcheney] just has links to the relevant recs and working group charters...
15:52:01 [Luc]
15:52:14 [Paolo]
Luc: could this be a starting point
15:52:18 [Paolo]
pgroth: yes
15:52:26 [Dong]
Dong has joined #prov
15:52:49 [tlebo]
15:53:15 [pgroth]
15:53:37 [Paolo]
tlebo: not the right way to go
15:54:21 [Paolo]
Luc: did not mean that the table should be what we will have. but each line has essentially the links we need
15:54:55 [pgroth]
15:54:56 [TomDN]
@pgroth: so where do the files under /namespace end up?
15:55:00 [Paolo]
Luc: in addition to the classes, we also need properties, so more work to do
15:55:13 [Paolo]
Luc: HTML ont starting until next week
15:55:16 [Paolo]
pgroth: correct
15:55:23 [Paolo]
15:55:43 [christine]
apologies - have to chair a call on the hour
15:55:48 [Luc]
topic: Wiki
15:55:52 [Zakim]
15:56:13 [Paolo]
Luc: need to tidy up the prov wiki, and contribute to the semweb wiki
15:57:06 [Paolo]
pgroth: on main prov wiki: need to clean up news and active topics.
15:57:42 [Paolo]
pgroth: from semweb wiki Remove outreach info, layout conventions...
15:57:44 [satya]
sorry, I have to leave now
15:57:51 [Zakim]
15:57:56 [Paolo]
Luc: who is taking the lead
15:58:21 [Paolo]
Luc: will do an edit on tue to update elements on the front page
15:58:58 [Paolo]
pgroth: (correction) will *move* Remove outreach info, layout conventions to semweb wiki from main prov wiki
15:59:26 [Paolo]
pgroth: nothing will be deleted
16:00:00 [smiles]
If there are specific things for the Wiki that you can pass to me, I can help (except for the week of May 4-10)
16:00:01 [Luc]
16:00:11 [tlebo]
16:00:11 [Luc]
ack tl
16:00:21 [Luc]
Topic: dissemination/announcement
16:00:43 [Paolo]
Luc: any dissemination plans?
16:00:48 [dgarijo]
I got a tutorial accepted in the DC conference in Lisbonne
16:00:59 [dgarijo]
with Kai
16:01:01 [pgroth]
there are two blog posts in the queue
16:01:04 [Paolo]
Luc: will blog on the prov family page -- describing provenance of documents
16:01:09 [Paolo]
Luc: after rec release
16:01:22 [Zakim]
16:01:54 [Paolo]
pgroth: will post the blogs whenever more appropriate
16:02:39 [jcheney]
16:02:45 [Luc]
16:02:50 [Paolo]
Paolo: I will give some of the EDBT tutorial to our School in an internal seminar
16:03:03 [pgroth]
16:03:08 [Luc]
ack jc
16:03:49 [Paolo]
jcheney: there was a outreach task force, should we call on that to report on the results of the WG?
16:04:08 [Luc]
16:04:14 [Paolo]
Luc: should leaders of task force to go back to the original respondandts?
16:04:18 [jcheney]
16:04:53 [Luc]
16:05:06 [Paolo]
Luc: contact the leaders of the dissemination task force
16:05:35 [Luc]
16:05:37 [khalidBelhajjame]
16:05:38 [Zakim]
16:05:40 [Zakim]
16:05:40 [Zakim]
16:05:40 [pgroth]
pgroth has left #prov
16:05:42 [Zakim]
16:05:42 [Zakim]
16:05:43 [Dong]
bye all
16:05:48 [Zakim]
16:05:49 [Zakim]
16:05:55 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aadd
16:06:01 [Zakim]
16:07:02 [Zakim]
16:08:04 [Zakim]
16:09:44 [Zakim]
16:15:38 [Zakim]
16:15:39 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
16:15:39 [Zakim]
Attendees were smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney, CraigTrim, +1.315.330.aacc, tlebo, +1.818.731.aadd, [IPcaller], dgarijo, christine, khalidBelhajjame, Dong,
16:15:39 [Zakim]
... Satya_Sahoo, TomDN, SamCoppens