12:28:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
12:28:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-er-irc
12:28:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:28:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
12:28:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3794
12:28:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
12:28:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference
12:28:23 <trackbot> Date: 24 April 2013
12:29:52 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started
12:29:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:30:13 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is me
12:30:13 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
12:30:15 <shadi> chair: shadi
12:31:23 <Zakim> + +49.711.892.3.aaaa
12:32:16 <carlos> carlos has joined #er
12:33:13 <cstrobbe> cstrobbe has joined #er
12:33:35 <cstrobbe> zakim, who's on the call
12:33:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the call', cstrobbe
12:33:49 <cstrobbe> zakim, who's attending
12:33:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's attending', cstrobbe
12:34:04 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
12:34:14 <cstrobbe> zakim, you really haven't gotten any smarter, eh
12:34:14 <Zakim> I don't understand you, cstrobbe
12:34:45 <cstrobbe> zakim, whos attending
12:34:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'whos attending', cstrobbe
12:34:55 <cstrobbe> zakim, who is on the call
12:34:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', cstrobbe
12:35:12 <shadi> regrets: Philip
12:35:14 <shadi> regrets: Philip, Samuel
12:36:25 <cstrobbe> zakim, who is on the call?
12:36:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see shadi, +49.711.892.3.aaaa, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
12:36:30 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2013Apr/0006.html
12:36:45 <shadi> Topic: Continued discussion on ERT WG Charter update
12:36:59 <cstrobbe> zakim, +49 is me
12:36:59 <Zakim> +cstrobbe; got it
12:37:40 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/charter4
12:38:28 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/charter4#scope
12:38:38 <shadi> [[Completing the Evaluation and Report Language (EARL) 1.0 including its supporting documents, a machine-readable language for reporting test results]]
12:40:55 <shadi> [[Promoting the exchange of test results between evaluation, authoring, and quality assurance tools to support the production of accessible web content]]
12:41:37 <shadi> CarlosV: have a formal proposal on that
12:41:51 <shadi> ...intending to do a member submission on this item
12:42:01 <shadi> ...something we have and are already using
12:42:49 <shadi> Shadi: is it more than promoting then?
12:42:53 <shadi> ...facilitating?
12:43:13 <shadi> ...or even "developing a format to facilitate the exchange ..."?
12:44:28 <shadi> CarlosV: based on REST
12:48:35 <shadi> Shadi: do we have the resource commitment for this?
12:49:20 <shadi> CarlosV: first version already exists, tangible
12:50:54 <shadi> Shadi: but can you commit resources on the WG side to work on this?
12:51:12 <shadi> CarlosV: can't tell right now
12:53:18 <shadi> Shadi: need resources committed to keep work items in the Charter
12:53:28 <shadi> [[Maintaining information about tools that assist evaluating the conformance of websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0]]
12:53:55 <shadi> Shadi: currently resources available from the WAI-ACT Project
12:56:25 <shadi> CarlosV: too much effort to keep up-to-date
12:56:58 <shadi> Christophe: not sure of other alternatives that are more up-to-date
12:57:12 <shadi> ...there used to be but not seeing much anymore
12:58:58 <shadi> [[Coordinating with the Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) on updating and potentially expanding the WAI resource Evaluating Web Sites For Accessibility]]
12:59:30 <shadi> Shadi: Eval TF falls under this work
12:59:44 <shadi> ...also this work is supported by the WAI-ACT Project
13:00:30 <shadi> [[Helping coordinate development of test files and test suites among WAI working groups including ...]]
13:01:45 <shadi> Shadi: previously work on test samples related to this
13:02:13 <shadi> ...also "accessibility-support database" may fall under this
13:02:21 <shadi> ...but seems to broad as we don't really coordinate on the development of test suites
13:02:35 <shadi> CarlosV: probably too difficult to achieve
13:03:00 <shadi> Christophe: yes, development of test suites needs dedicated resources
13:03:30 <shadi> CarlosV: maybe drop this item?
13:03:56 <shadi> [[Monitor the developments and provide input into the new generation of combined and modularized WAI web accessibility guidelines (WAI 3.0)]]
13:05:12 <shadi> Shadi: low resources but allows us to engage in discussion around future developments
13:06:43 <shadi> CarlosV: may look ambiguous and unclear to external readers
13:07:12 <shadi> ...may ask why work on WAI 3.0 when there is still so much to do on WCAG 2.0?
13:07:28 <Zakim> +??P18
13:08:08 <samuelm> samuelm has joined #er
13:08:36 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
13:08:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-er-minutes.html shadi
13:08:43 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
13:08:44 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
13:08:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-er-minutes.html shadi
13:10:27 <shadi> Shadi: maybe wording needs refinement but basic intent is to enable this group to be involved in future discussion
13:10:37 <shadi> CarlosV: avoid the versioning
13:11:12 <shadi> [[New: Accessibility Support Database]]
13:11:52 <shadi> Shadi: falls under responsibility of this group because of current item #5
13:12:41 <shadi> CarlosV: maybe need something more specific to accessibility-support database
13:14:32 <shadi> Christophe: need to drop things before we can start new work?
13:15:50 <shadi> Shadi: currently this item is supported by the WAI-ACT Project
13:16:18 <shadi> Christophe: wasn't speaking about this particular work item
13:16:18 <shadi> ...I actually find this one very important
13:16:39 <samuelm> a couple of comments I sent before regarding the charter : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2013Apr/0007.html
13:17:12 <shadi> [[New: Guidance for Evaluation Tool Developers (aka AERT)]]
13:17:29 <shadi> Shadi: also something that is currently supported by the WAI-ACT Project
13:19:48 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2013Apr/0007.html
13:20:54 <shadi> Shadi: first point on aligning EARL with other (non-WAI) activities
13:22:55 <shadi> Shadi: think it is the initial intent of EARL
13:23:24 <shadi> ...but concerned about not having sufficient resources to follow through
13:23:42 <cstrobbe> TAP: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2011Sep/0006.html
13:23:49 <shadi> ...at most potentially as joint work (through TFs or such)
13:24:11 <samuelm> my concern is that other groups (or stakeholders outside w3c) may have started using earl but they eventually dismiss it
13:24:13 <shadi> ...but probably cannot take active lead on this
13:24:25 <samuelm> but i understand the lack of resources
13:24:26 <shadi> Christophe: tried to previously, based on feedback we received
13:25:13 <samuelm> lack of maturity I understand (example from WebID, although I later left the group)
13:25:25 <samuelm> from their perspective
13:27:16 <shadi> Shadi: second point on better clarifying the scope of ERT WG and differentiating it from other WGs
13:27:53 <shadi> ...better communicate the work of this group
13:28:27 <samuelm> (note three of the points in the charter scope include crossed references to other WGs)
13:28:46 <shadi> Christophe: need to understand what WCAG does and doesn't do before you can understand what ERT WG does
13:29:35 <shadi> Shadi: inherent relationship between WCAG WG and ERT WG needs to be better described?
13:29:47 <shadi> Christophe: yes
13:30:18 <shadi> CarlosV: difficult to separate responsibilities
13:31:32 <samuelm> responsibility may end up blurred
13:31:55 <shadi> Shadi: wondering about WCAG core group vs a WCAG support group
13:32:05 <Zakim> -Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
13:32:58 <shadi> Topic: Next Meeting
13:33:05 <samuelm> * samuelm regrets for may 15, local holiday in madrid
13:33:12 <shadi> May 1st and May 8th public holiday
13:33:26 <shadi> next meeting probably May 15th
13:33:34 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
13:33:34 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:33:34 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shadi, +49.711.892.3.aaaa, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, cstrobbe
13:33:37 <Zakim> -shadi
13:33:40 <Zakim> -cstrobbe
13:33:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:33:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-er-minutes.html trackbot