13:53:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:53:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-tt-irc
13:53:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:53:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
13:53:49 <Sean> Sean has joined #tt
13:53:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:53:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:53:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:53:51 <trackbot> Date: 18 April 2013
13:54:07 <glenn> zakim, this will be 8868
13:54:07 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, glenn
13:54:21 <glenn> zakim, this will be ttwg
13:54:21 <Zakim> ok, glenn; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:56:24 <glenn> plh, is zakim working? it isn't answering the phone?
13:57:02 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
13:57:10 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aaaa
13:57:18 <Sean> i am in the call
13:57:29 <glenn> i'll try again
13:57:58 <Sean> zakim, aaaa is me
13:57:58 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
13:58:07 <Zakim> +glenn
14:00:17 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:00:59 <Zakim> + +1.858.847.aabb
14:02:24 <mike> zakim, mike is aabb
14:02:25 <Zakim> sorry, mike, I do not recognize a party named 'mike'
14:02:36 <glenn> zakim, aabb is mike
14:02:37 <Zakim> +mike; got it
14:06:36 <Zakim> +Plh
14:07:18 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:08:25 <glenn>  chair: sean
14:08:34 <glenn> scribenick: glenn
14:08:40 <Zakim> +pal
14:09:30 <glenn> topic: agenda
14:09:34 <plh> agenda+ TTML 1.0 SE
14:09:34 <plh> agenda+ HTML5 mapping
14:09:35 <glenn> ttml10se
14:09:37 <plh> agenda+ WebVTT status
14:09:39 <glenn> html mapping
14:09:43 <glenn> vtt work
14:09:44 <glenn> charter
14:09:46 <plh> agenda+ Milestones and roadmap
14:09:59 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:09:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TTML 1.0 SE" taken up [from plh]
14:10:41 <plh> Glenn: been waiting on a couple of examples. soon as I get them, I'll put them in.
14:10:58 <plh> ... Mike sent examples of formulas to describe the SMPTE media time expression/relationships
14:11:19 <plh> ... but they use a formula that put them in the method 2 category rather than change proposal 4
14:11:26 <plh> ... wondering if it was intended or not
14:11:55 <plh> ... we talked about 2 methods: triggered second/minutes pression and absolute time, without referring to framerate at all
14:12:23 <plh> ... and took the remainder and would divide that by the framerate. that would produce additional time.
14:12:39 <plh> ... 2:00:00 always convert to 7200 seconds
14:12:46 <plh> ... with method 2
14:13:29 <plh> ... convert it seconds, multiple by nominal framrate, and added the frames in the expression, divided by framerate
14:13:43 <plh> .... 2:00:00 converts to 7207 seconds
14:13:56 <plh> .... we wanted to stay with method 1
14:14:04 <plh> ... but Mike formula used method 2
14:14:17 <plh> ... so, wondering what we should do here
14:14:43 <Andreas> Andreas has joined #tt
14:14:58 <plh> Sean: we were ok with ending with 2 different mechanisms
14:15:18 <plh> Mike: wondering if I took the direction here...
14:15:41 <Zakim> + +49.893.aacc
14:15:46 <plh> Glenn: if marker mode is discontinuous (which is the default now, unlike in first edition)
14:16:00 <plh> ... then there is no mapping to media time
14:16:25 <plh> ... throwing out the continuous marker completely, not sure if we can do that in SE
14:17:33 <plh> Mike: I think we should remain silent in the second edition
14:17:42 <plh> ... and figure this out in 1.1
14:17:56 <plh> ... since EBU is using continuous
14:19:05 <plh> ... so would propose no change for now
14:20:35 <plh> Andreas: works for us. in practice, the discontinuous gets converted into continuous
14:21:21 <plh> Sean: unless we find someone wants to keep using continuous, we'll pull it out of TTML 1.1
14:21:32 <plh> ... it should be removed
14:22:03 <plh> Glenn: we can revert the earlier decision to use method 1 and only use method 2
14:22:07 <plh> Mike: -1
14:22:13 <plh> Sean: seems too late indeed
14:23:33 <plh> Sean: let's put a note that we're considering deprecating continuous mode in a future version
14:23:40 <plh> Glenn: ok
14:24:17 <plh> Glenn, so with these changes, and the examples, we should be done.
14:24:41 <pal> +1
14:24:48 <pal> +2
14:25:02 <plh> Sean: let's record a decision to publish
14:25:06 <plh> [no objection]
14:25:21 <plh> RESOLVED: TTML 1.0 SE to be published as a PER
14:25:49 <plh> Sean: Glenn and plh will figure out the necessary steps
14:25:56 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:25:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "HTML5 mapping" taken up [from plh]
14:26:00 <plh> No update
14:26:05 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:26:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, plh
14:26:10 <plh> zakim, close agendum 2
14:26:10 <Zakim> agendum 2, HTML5 mapping, closed
14:26:11 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:26:11 <Zakim> 3. WebVTT status [from plh]
14:26:12 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:26:12 <Zakim> agendum 3. "WebVTT status" taken up [from plh]
14:26:25 <plh> Sean: moving WebVTT on the REC track
14:26:46 <plh> ... they want to formalize the CG report
14:27:04 <plh> ... possibilities: new group, html wg, this group
14:27:13 <plh> ... the most sensible thing is to do it in this group
14:27:19 <plh> ... talked to David Singer
14:27:25 <plh> ... think it's a good idea
14:27:34 <plh> ... we won't resolve the syntactic issues
14:27:49 <plh> ... but if the underlying the same model, everyone will be happy
14:28:04 <plh> ... David would join as co-chair
14:28:13 <plh> ... and would lead the webvtt activity
14:28:17 <plh> ... it's a charter change
14:28:36 <plh> ... but the work wouldn't start after they are done in the CG
14:28:53 <plh> ... but we should make sure we're happy with the CG report
14:29:00 <plh> ... so let's have a look at their draft
14:29:29 <plh> ... it solves a lot of the political issues as well
14:29:52 <plh> ... any comment, objection, caveat?
14:30:41 <plh> Plh: I'll start working on the charter next week
14:30:47 <glenn> scribe: plh
14:31:10 <plh> Sean: we're somewhat behind on our deliverables
14:31:29 <mike> sean, please pause speaking...
14:31:32 <plh> ... didn't start some of the work
14:32:41 <plh> Mike: want to make sure: it would still be two separate activities. but we need to find a common semantic ground and it should be a key activity
14:32:47 <plh> ... should go in the charter
14:32:52 <plh> ... but I support this activity
14:33:01 <plh> Sean: that's a good point
14:33:09 <plh> and may change how we would deliver TTML 1.1
14:33:47 <plh> ... we may separate the model from the syntax in TTML 1.1 and map the model into TTML 1.1 and WebVTT
14:34:00 <plh> ... ie a Timed Text Core Model
14:34:34 <plh> .. we've been looking at issues with the serialization already
14:34:48 <plh> Glenn: we have an appendix on default encoding in SE
14:35:04 <plh> ... not sure if having a separate model fits into a 1.1
14:35:09 <plh> ... more like a 2.0
14:35:25 <plh> Sean: agreed. would need to decide along
14:35:35 <plh> ... folks need to think about the timing
14:35:56 <plh> ... taking on this activity might derail our momentum on 1.1 indeed
14:36:12 <plh> Mike: meeting levels and frequency?
14:36:52 <plh> Sean: we would have two subgroups. TTML would continue with this slot. WebVTT would have its own. and some cross-groups every other week
14:36:57 <plh> ... might be a good time to have a f2f
14:40:30 <plh> Mike: not much progress on common model without both folks around
14:40:34 <plh> Sean: TPAC for f2f?
14:40:53 <plh> Nov 11-15, Shenzen, China
14:41:00 <plh> for TPAC 2013
14:41:55 <plh> Glenn: one can fly to HK btw
14:45:57 <plh> Sean, for you https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/ChairsTPAC2013/
14:46:31 <Zakim> - +49.893.aacc
14:46:36 <Zakim> -pal
14:46:37 <Zakim> -glenn
14:46:38 <Zakim> -mike
14:46:39 <Zakim> -Sean
14:46:40 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
14:46:40 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.154.558.aaaa, Sean, glenn, +1.858.847.aabb, mike, Plh, pal, +49.893.aacc
14:46:59 <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
14:46:59 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:46:59 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:47:06 <glenn> rrsagent, publish minutes
14:47:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-tt-minutes.html glenn
14:47:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:47:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-tt-minutes.html trackbot
14:47:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:47:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items