13:03:12 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 13:03:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-webtv-irc 13:03:14 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:03:14 Zakim has joined #webtv 13:03:16 Zakim, this will be 13:03:16 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:03:17 Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference 13:03:17 Date: 10 April 2013 13:03:37 bryan has joined #webtv 13:03:58 zakim, who is here? 13:03:58 sorry, Clarke, I don't know what conference this is 13:03:59 On IRC I see bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, yosuke, sheau, Bin, Clarke, timeless, trackbot 13:05:07 zakim, this will be "web and tv testing tf" 13:05:07 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Clarke 13:05:19 kaz has joined #webtv 13:05:44 zakim, who is here? 13:05:44 sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is 13:05:45 On IRC I see kaz, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, yosuke, sheau, Bin, Clarke, timeless, trackbot 13:05:56 zakim, this will be webtv 13:05:57 ok, Clarke, I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM already started 13:05:59 zakim, this will be webtv 13:05:59 ok, kaz, I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM already started 13:06:58 ... 13:07:22 (three dots indicate the same speaker was talking) 13:07:36 scribe Bin_Hu 13:07:46 chair Clarke 13:08:03 Clarke starts meeting and goes over the agenda 13:08:16 if you're not sure who's talking start with zzz: xxx: or something like that and we can use the substitute command to correct it 13:08:19 +[IPcaller] 13:08:33 Sure, and thanks Bryan 13:08:40 zakim, IPcaller is Yosuke,Kaz 13:08:40 +Yosuke,Kaz; got it 13:09:19 Topic Final update of liaison letter 13:10:07 +Mark_Vickers 13:10:42 Clarke: 2. Follow-through: How do we maximize response from liaison letter and internal poll? 13:11:06 if the scribe needs more time to catch up, they ask "wait" and the meeting will wait for them to catch up or ask a question 13:11:06 ... individual responsibility to fulfill that 13:11:35 ... does anyone know how to get the response from people asap? 13:12:03 Guiseppe - internal or external> 13:12:10 Clarke: either one 13:13:58 Bin, that was me Sheau speaking. 13:14:00 Clarke: I think these people haven't signed formal liaison agreement 13:14:10 sorry 13:14:25 s/Guiseppe/Sheau 13:14:53 I agree, for those that we're members of we can reach out to the liaison lead to ensure quick followup; for OMA we are involved and can help get a response by june. 13:15:11 Clarke: anything else for the liaison letter? 13:15:31 Topic use cases 13:15:43 Clarke: no new ones 13:16:18 ... we want to decide the requirement for testing, and test tool 13:16:41 ... we have candidate use cases, we need to decide whether to approve it or not 13:17:03 ... criteria is if there are requirement generated from use cases 13:17:17 use case 1: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/Web_%26_TV_Testing_Discussions/Improve_Web_Platform_Consistency 13:17:32 zakim, who is here? 13:17:32 On the phone I see Clarke, +1.508.276.aaaa, Bin, bryan, Yosuke,Kaz, Mark_Vickers 13:17:34 On IRC I see kaz, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, yosuke, sheau, Bin, Clarke, timeless, trackbot 13:17:54 ... what requirement does this use case add? 13:18:40 ... I think it does 13:19:36 Mark_Vickers has joined #webtv 13:19:50 ... what do you think if we pass it on to testing TF, will it be accepted 13:20:25 Mark agree that this use case will generate requirement 13:20:40 Mark, I agree we need to document the need while it's still not met 13:21:22 Clarke, any other comment? 13:21:33 ... anyone oppose to adopt thos use case? 13:22:03 move on to next use case 13:23:20 Mark, it is important to have it be recorded 13:23:38 ... if there is wording change, certainly welcome 13:24:26 Clarke, or we can say it is recommended to pass this test suite 13:25:31 Mark, outside group referencing W3C test, but what you are saying W3C also references outside tests 13:26:38 Clarke, we are providing our perspective of requirement to W3C test ecosystem 13:27:00 ... any other comments to this use case? 13:27:09 ... recommned to accept it. 13:27:14 ... anyone oppose? 13:27:26 zakim, who is here? 13:27:26 On the phone I see Clarke, +1.508.276.aaaa, Bin, bryan, Yosuke,Kaz, Mark_Vickers 13:27:28 On IRC I see Mark_Vickers, kaz, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, yosuke, sheau, Bin, Clarke, timeless, trackbot 13:27:34 use case 3: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/Web_%26_TV_Testing_Discussions/performance_testing 13:27:34 Next one is Giuseppe's 13:28:11 Browser performance testing 13:28:34 Clarke it's a performance sort of test 13:28:48 ... my question is whether we need performance test 13:28:55 yes we do 13:29:32 Bryan, we really need performance test, such as Coremob we have requirment of performance test 13:29:45 ... usaually it is part of functional test 13:30:02 ... at least to have ability to measure 13:30:21 time to start a stream and average frame rate for example are big impacts to user experience and need to be assessable at the least 13:31:20 kaz, aaaa is sheau. 13:31:54 ... to understand what the user experience will be 13:32:03 zakim, aaaa is sheau. 13:32:03 +sheau; got it 13:32:20 ... to make sure network environment is consistent 13:32:38 Mark, agree to what Bryan said 13:33:59 ... what we are really going for is the binding functionality for correct implementation 13:35:11 if you ask OEMs they will argue that device variation makes performance tests less useful, and we agree that devices vary for valid reasons e.g. processor class, memory. but at least being able to consistently measure performance, with elimination of variables where possible, allows you to assess the result for your own purposes. but W3C does not need to set expectations, except as a minimum and then probably only as a recommendation 13:35:27 ... a good example is "bound" for class of devices 13:35:51 Sheau, acceptable if use case describes the need well 13:36:29 ... suggest to add additional clarification of minimum requirement of user acceptability in addition to metrics of benchmark 13:36:47 Clarke, if you think anything needs to be added, feel free to edit it 13:36:59 ... suggest it to be accepted 13:37:05 ... anyone oppose? 13:37:20 Clarke, next use case is Bin's 13:37:25 use case 4: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/Web_%26_TV_Testing_Discussions/MSE_Testing 13:37:45 Clarke, we had some discussion in the last CC here. 13:38:44 ... the question is if this MSE use case adds requirement to pass on to testing TF 13:39:05 Mark, it might be good if we add specific test cases 13:39:22 ... might be good guidance to test team 13:40:38 Clarke, I don't see MSE test has covered, such as to deal with media stream with particular start time, multiple simultaneous track, adapted bit rate 13:40:53 ... there are several things to extend to testing requirement 13:41:26 ... my recommendation is similar to last one 13:41:39 ... to extend requirement 13:42:19 ... assign action item to Clarke, Bin and Mark to add specific test cases 13:42:37 ... add action to communicate with HTML WG 13:42:47 ... recommend to accept this use case 13:42:51 anyone oppose? 13:43:02 use case 5: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/Web_%26_TV_Testing_Discussions/EME_Testing 13:43:15 Clarke, next is use case 5 13:43:24 ... very similar to last one 13:44:29 ... nature of security of CDM, and probably add value to testing platform 13:45:05 Sheau, does the order of 3 scenario suggest anything? 13:45:32 ... feel like the 3rd one should be the 1st 13:45:51 CDM it's similar though to codecs for video in that the test environment needs to support a variety of codecs as well as CDMs. Specific CDM supporting test environments may need to be provided (server side) by whoever defined/deploys the CDM 13:46:01 Mark, nothing implies in the order 13:46:49 ... 1 and 2 represent the fundamental functionality, 3 also adds graphics transportation 13:47:03 ... 3 is orthogonal to 1 and 2 13:48:22 and presumably the CDM-drawn bits are not (or may not be) accessible to the application, e.g. taking snapshots in a canvas 13:49:10 Clarke, my recommendation is to accept this 13:49:16 ... anyone oppose? 13:49:26 One more use case 6 13:49:38 use case 6: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/Web_%26_TV_Testing_Discussions/NSD_Testing 13:50:04 Clarke, last case of network service discovery 13:50:34 ... gives use agent a particular way to access local network resources 13:51:03 ... gives additional security things, cross-origina features, and manage those features to let user control 13:51:24 ... unique test platform features required by this use case 13:51:52 ... need to add more specifics on that 13:52:06 ... recommend to accept it 13:52:18 ... anyone oppose? 13:52:51 Clarke, a more general question is that the above use cases may not cover the test coverage adequately 13:53:25 ... call for additional use cases to cover broader web and tv area more adequately 13:54:27 Clarke, basically we have gone throuhg use case and requirement 13:55:12 ... main testing group is evolving 13:55:31 ... look for suggestion on how to accomplish our goals 13:55:43 ... look for advice and recommendations 13:56:44 ... is their landscape there clearly enough? contracting tools? 13:57:01 ... or the tools are already there, and we cannot add anything there yet 13:57:21 Bryan, haven't heard any contracting tools 13:57:47 ... but they might hire someone to add vendor's test suites 13:58:35 Clarke, advice on how to meet our deliverables 13:58:46 ... any other business to discuss? 13:58:58 -bryan 13:58:58 -Mark_Vickers 13:58:59 meeting adjourned 13:59:01 -sheau 13:59:05 -Bin 13:59:06 -Yosuke,Kaz 13:59:09 Thanks for scribing, Bin 13:59:17 sure 13:59:23 let me generate the minutes 13:59:25 kaz, can you help Bin generate the minutes 13:59:43 Or maybe Bin already knows how 13:59:54 -Clarke 13:59:56 UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended 13:59:56 Attendees were Clarke, +1.508.276.aaaa, Bin, bryan, Yosuke,Kaz, Mark_Vickers, sheau 14:00:15 rrsagent, make log public 14:00:22 thank you kaz 14:00:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz 14:00:54 Chair: Clarke 14:00:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz 14:02:29 Present: Clarke, Bint, Bryan, Yosuke, Kaz, Mark_Vickers, Sheau 14:02:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz 14:29:22 sheau has left #webtv 14:48:06 kaz has joined #webtv 15:35:10 Zakim has left #webtv 15:51:59 glenn has joined #webtv 15:53:33 glenn_ has joined #webtv